Tina Turner Cover mix critique
Old 4th March 2013
  #1
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Tina Turner Cover mix critique

Old 4th March 2013
  #2
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cowboycoalminer's Avatar
 

I hear a lot of room in most everything. The performance is good. Sounds a bit too washy for my liking. If your getting a lot of early reflections from the room, then artificial verb isn't really needed as much.
Old 4th March 2013
  #3
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Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer View Post
I hear a lot of room in most everything. The performance is good. Sounds a bit too washy for my liking. If your getting a lot of early reflections from the room, then artificial verb isn't really needed as much.
OK, I'm using 2 reverbs: One is a room emulation and one is a plate (using a Softube Tzar1). Perhaps I'm sending a bit too much to the room verb. I can definitely pull that back a bit. Think that's what you're hearing?

Thanks Cowboy,
Keith
Old 4th March 2013
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Sylvester View Post
OK, I'm using 2 reverbs: One is a room emulation and one is a plate (using a Softube Tzar1). Perhaps I'm sending a bit too much to the room verb. I can definitely pull that back a bit. Think that's what you're hearing?

Thanks Cowboy,
Keith
Probably yeah. The whole thing just lacks some attack.
Old 4th March 2013
  #5
Agree especially the drums sounds very "roomy"
Old 4th March 2013
  #6
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Muser's Avatar
I get the feeling valhallaroom might be good on that kit. see if there's a demo.
Old 4th March 2013
  #7
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Ok, this is great. I'm gonna take some of that room verb out for sure. I have a tendency to go a little overboard with ambiance sometimes. I also tend to make snare drums annoyingly loud.

Thanks for the help all. It's so helpful to get criticism from folks who have no emotion invested in the band or mix. What else ya got?
Old 5th March 2013
  #8
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for what else I reckon, most of it would be in this. mostly dry as a bone.

Old 5th March 2013
  #9
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That's what I'm talking about. Hear how the attack of each voice in the mix jumps out of the speakers? Reverb is necessary to gel a mix, and there is plenty of reverb on that you tube mix, you just can't hear it as much. That's when reverb sounds best, when you don't know your hearing it (so says my teacher many years ago ). Short tails that coincide with the BPM of the music, (same as setting up a delay) work best for a tight punchy mix. Here's an example of one of my mixes with the kind of verb I'm talking about (hall). Notice around 3:02 when it's just the vocal, how the reverb comes out but we can't hear it in the busy mix because of the short tail. It's simply acting as glue.
Attached Files
Better Dig Two.mp3 (4.48 MB, 12 views)
Old 19th March 2013
  #10
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Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer View Post
That's what I'm talking about. Hear how the attack of each voice in the mix jumps out of the speakers? Reverb is necessary to gel a mix, and there is plenty of reverb on that you tube mix, you just can't hear it as much. That's when reverb sounds best, when you don't know your hearing it (so says my teacher many years ago ). Short tails that coincide with the BPM of the music, (same as setting up a delay) work best for a tight punchy mix. Here's an example of one of my mixes with the kind of verb I'm talking about (hall). Notice around 3:02 when it's just the vocal, how the reverb comes out but we can't hear it in the busy mix because of the short tail. It's simply acting as glue.
OK, I took out a significant amount of the room. Now that I hear this one next to the first, I really hear what you're talking about:

https://soundcloud.com/keith-sylvester/cussinmix-04a
Old 19th March 2013
  #11
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You got it now, man. Great mix here. Tight. I'd bring that great vocal up a db or so but that's just my preference. Excellent use of verb here like we were talking about!!
Old 19th March 2013
  #12
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Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer View Post
You got it now, man. Great mix here. Tight. I'd bring that great vocal up a db or so but that's just my preference. Excellent use of verb here like we were talking about!!
Thanks Cowboy. It's amazing how easily we get so close to a mix where we lose perspective. As soon as I read your initial critique I could hear it. Now it seems so obvious it's just silly.

Believe it or not, this one critique has, I believe, greatly improved my ability to listen objectively to the ambience I'm applying to a mix.

Thanks you guys. And yes, I pulled that vocal down about 1.5 dBs because it seemed a little too on top. I should have left it alone or maybe cut it by half of that amount.
Old 19th March 2013
  #13
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yeah I like that more for sure. you might find you benefit from using a pultec EQ. possibly in some sub groups and across the mix. and possibly for your vocal. The T-Racks suite is good but can be a little power hungry. though I have heard it said that the various components of the plug-in can be made to show up as a full set of individual plug-ins. one should be the pultec. other people would probably have other suggestions about other pultec re-creations. maybe cowboycoalminer has some ideas about that.
Old 19th March 2013
  #14
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Originally Posted by Muser View Post
yeah I like that more for sure. you might find you benefit from using a pultec EQ. possibly in some sub groups and across the mix. and possibly for your vocal. The T-Racks suite is good but can be a little power hungry. though I have heard it said that the various components of the plug-in can be made to show up as a full set of individual plug-ins. one should be the pultec. other people would probably have other suggestions about other pultec re-creations. maybe cowboycoalminer has some ideas about that.
Thanks Muser. This mix is indeed using both the TRacks Pultec and the UAD Putec Pro on some elements. Mainly kick drum and bass guitar for low end and on the vocal for air.

Please elaborate on what you would want to do with the Pultec on this mix.
Old 19th March 2013
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Sylvester View Post
Thanks Muser. This mix is indeed using both the TRacks Pultec and the UAD Putec Pro on some elements. Mainly kick drum and bass guitar for low end and on the vocal for air.

Please elaborate on what you would want to do with the Pultec on this mix.
well I was really just thinking about injecting more grime. but, I think it might be good to use on your vocal and potentially use that to get more level. some way of getting closer proximity, which is often associated with low end. btw, you might get some use out of Antares Microphone Modeler. though I haven't used it recently, in the past I got some very useful results out of that thing. I thought the ribbons in there were really good. especially at killing transients. they were also good for extra proximity. just ideas about what I'd try. not that these would do the job best. I've also heard some interesting properties in Fabfilter Saturn. might be useful to demo if you haven't already.
Old 19th March 2013
  #16
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Originally Posted by Muser View Post
well I was really just thinking about injecting more grime. but, I think it might be good to use on your vocal and potentially use that to get more level. some way of getting closer proximity, which is often associated with low end. btw, you might get some use out of Antares Microphone Modeler. though I haven't used it recently, in the past I got some very useful results out of that thing. I thought the ribbons in there were really good. especially at killing transients. they were also good for extra proximity. just ideas about what I'd try. not that these would do the job best. I've also heard some interesting properties in Fabfilter Saturn. might be useful to demo if you haven't already.
Ah, OK, so it's more harmonic distortion you're after, maybe - and a bit more low end weight on the vocal? I was told by another mix engineer (for whom I have a lot of respect) that the vocal could be a tad warmer.
Old 19th March 2013
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Sylvester View Post
Ah, OK, so it's more harmonic distortion you're after, maybe - and a bit more low end weight on the vocal? I was told by another mix engineer (for whom I have a lot of respect) that the vocal could be a tad warmer.
yes, those properties are tricky ITB. I think a lot is that the transients are really suppressed in these recordings. a bit like when someone puts a Tea Towel on a snare. the less transients you have the more instruments can hit at the same time. I was listening to some stems of moonage daydream recently and it's incredible how much instability is in the drum sounds. a lot to do with how the transients are so low that, when you hear the drums on their own, you almost think it sounds horribly poor. but when you put it all together ... Bingo!!
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