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Rock song tracked analog, mixed digital. Just finished it
Old 13th March 2015
  #1
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nyandres's Avatar
Thumbs down Rock song tracked analog, mixed digital. Just finished it

Hi Guys,
I wanted to get your feedback on the following song we just released. This feedback will also help us shape our next series of songs.
https://thelilt.bandcamp.com/track/one-more-today

I suppose I can start this post describing some of the signal chain, and stuff. The idea is to know where I could/should improve in/on the next track.

TRACKING:

Everything with the exception of the drums was tracked through a pre and either an 1176 or Buzz Soc 20e. (Signal always light. Aiming for -10db peaks with -18 or so average rms)
Vox chain: Rode Classic II (position between omni and cardioid) > Vintech 273 (slight high boost, and low-cut) > Kenetek 1176 (ratio: 8, medium attack and release) > Buzz Audio SOC 20 (doont remember settings but I think auto release, and more subtle but even gain reduction)
Vox Approach (Various single takes- Helped the feeling emotion of the song, super small distance to mic for intimacy in the sound)
Clean Guitars: PRS NF3 > Evans RE300 Amp.
Clean Guitars Chain: Senn e906 & Royer 121 > Buzz Audio QSP20 > (Kenetek 1176/FMR PBC6A) > Buzz Audio SOC 20
Bass Chain: ESP 6string bass > 1.JDI (reamping with behringer bdi21) & 2. Kemper Profiling Amp Ampeg SVT profile (We now have a warwick which OMG)
Drums Chain: Roland TD30KV triggering BFD3 (DW Kit I believe). The drums are of course played by a real drummer, live. I used to use Superior Drummer before, but I am liking BFD. They sound very raw, and uncompressed, which lets me manipulate them the way I would had I used acoustic drums.
HiGain Guitars: Kemper Profiling Profile of my Nitro (e906, and royer 121 through buzz audio QSP20). Also DI Signal (through radial JDI) to use Peavey Revalver for some 6505 on one side. And Kemper Profile of a Diezel VH4 for additional track near the outro. The Kemper and JDI Signal goes directly to converters.

MIXING (100% digital. I like my mixing digital. I've tried using my hardware again, but it just becomes a bit much):

Slate VCC: One just about every channel.
VOX: Bused and detuned copies on the sides, and slightly distorted center voice for wide focus. Slate VTM to add smooth sheen. Decapitator used in central vox.
BASS: Large hole made in the middle EQ-wise where it made no audible difference to the bass sound in the context of the mix, but added clarity to other instruments. Some Waves RBASS used to add more sub, as well as some decapitator to help add that big grit.
CLEAN Guitars. Heavy reverb to place these a bitback, and lots of automated panning. My reverb of choice as of the last few years is QL Spaces
2bus:2db or so of gain reduction through Focusrite red 3 (Slate VBC)

Last edited by nyandres; 15th March 2015 at 06:30 AM.. Reason: Adding clarity, as I had written it on the go originally
Old 15th March 2015
  #2
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Anyone? I'd love some feedback from you audio gurus

Last edited by nyandres; 15th March 2015 at 06:30 AM..
Old 15th March 2015
  #3
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Smile

Can a mod change the thread Icon. It has a thumbs down I may have put by mistake.
Old 16th March 2015
  #4
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Not exactly sure what you mean by "tracked analog." Was there tape used somewhere?

I'm not going to say this to purposely hurt your feelings...But this really isn't good. Musical tastes aside, there's no fluidity to the performance. The various musicians aren't really playing with one another at all. I would strongly suggest having the band find a groove.

I know what it's like to get all amped up on a new tune and send it out and get less than enthusiastic responses so please don't take this as me being mean. Fixing the musicianship will make things sound better (at least more cohesive) and make mixing much easier.

From a sonic perspective...The drums don't have any "meat" to them yet seem to have tons of sub bass. The bass guitar is "big" but doesn't "fit." The guitars just seem like a wash in the "heavy" parts. The vocals are sonically pretty good.
Old 16th March 2015
  #5
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I'm certainly not a guru, but I can tell you right away that if you redo the drums you'll have a better song. I know I can be blunt because you don't know me, I don't know you and I don't know the drummer, but it's just ruining the song man.
I agree with effitall, there's no groove, no cohesive playing. Maybe except for the middle part (save me from my self), the guitar and bass are really good, really liked that, not the voice though, I'd remove it.

So I guess audio is good, artistic production is where you should focus...
Old 16th March 2015
  #6
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Hey guys, while it sucks to hear/read the above, it is exactly what I need to improve. The song has otherwise been well received, but when I compare it to mixes I really like its not quite there yet, and I cannot put my finger on what it is that is missing. So this song is already out so I cannot change it, but I can avoid the same errors on the other songs.

So for the drums, is the lack of size an EQ issue you guys are seeing, or a lack of reberb. My mastering guy had suggested reverb wise they were bone dry, so I added more room mic, but wonder if I should have also added some plate to the drum bus.

I do notice however upon tracking the whole band live that the sounds is more...musical. but then I cannot manipulate much.
Old 16th March 2015
  #7
Gear Addict
You could probably process the drums to sound better. Different EQ, different compression, different sound set...You could try some reverb/ambience to give them a little more size, but I think that would be adding icing to the unbaked cake.

What are you doing in the 100-300hz range on the drums? What are you doing in the 20-100hz range? Are you adding "attack" to the drums? How much?

Going back to the performance side of things....

Solo the drums and just listen. Do they have a groove to them? Can you easily bob/bounce/move to just the drums? They seem pretty rigid and choppy. Did you quantize them? If so, do you have the original drum performance that you can reload?

Another thing to look at, you might want to test your DAW for accurate timing during record. Send a snare hit out your DA and back into an AD and record it on an adjacent track. These should line up and ultimately 100% phase cancel if you invert the recorded track. If the recorded snare does not line up with the reference snare sample, then you need to adjust your recording offsets so that they do. Note that the recorded level might be different than the output level, and that the recording offsets may shift based on your buffer and sample rate settings. Make sure you know what your DAW is doing.
Old 16th March 2015
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effitall View Post
You could probably process the drums to sound better. Different EQ, different compression, different sound set...You could try some reverb/ambience to give them a little more size, but I think that would be adding icing to the unbaked cake.

What are you doing in the 100-300hz range on the drums? What are you doing in the 20-100hz range? Are you adding "attack" to the drums? How much?

Going back to the performance side of things....

Solo the drums and just listen. Do they have a groove to them? Can you easily bob/bounce/move to just the drums? They seem pretty rigid and choppy. Did you quantize them? If so, do you have the original drum performance that you can reload?

Another thing to look at, you might want to test your DAW for accurate timing during record. Send a snare hit out your DA and back into an AD and record it on an adjacent track. These should line up and ultimately 100% phase cancel if you invert the recorded track. If the recorded snare does not line up with the reference snare sample, then you need to adjust your recording offsets so that they do. Note that the recorded level might be different than the output level, and that the recording offsets may shift based on your buffer and sample rate settings. Make sure you know what your DAW is doing.
So the timing on the daw side has no latency issues, I've taken care of em before. But regarding the EQ, is there any specific drums that have the issue. Like is it the toms, or is it the snare, or the kick. Maybe I do need to raise the room sound, that changes the sound a lot actually.
Did I transient design too much attack?
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