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Getting those fat heavy guitars without "muddying" the mix
Old 7th June 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
braztneme's Avatar
 

Getting those fat heavy guitars without "muddying" the mix

Hey folks, just another thread on something that possible a few new engineers are passing thru.

I'm currently recording and mixing 2 heavy rock bands and with my experience of mixing (not much btw) I'm getting this one major problem when referencing my mixes to the ones I would like to achieve a sound-like tune.

I listen to bands like Mastodon, Queens of the Stone Age, Deftones and always find very pleasant how the guitars are fat, defined and not harsh at all, but all I got when mixing my songs is guitars that are ok, are there, but if I try to fat them up, I'm in trouble. And I end up enhancing the highs and putting everything where it is supposed to be, but in the end it is kinda lame.

Anyone have a opinion about this? Some cool tip to make those fat guitars work together with the bass and not become a problem when mixing?

Thank you!

Heh
Old 7th June 2013
  #2
Gear Head
 
braztneme's Avatar
 

Anyone?

Heh
Old 7th June 2013
  #3
Registered User
 

I'd be interested in this myself.

I think MrAbbott has done a good job on his GiantGiant EP which he posted here a day or two ago but he's yet to get back to me on how he achieved it.

As for QOTSA I've read a Q&A on here which went into some depth on the guitar sound for Songs For The Deaf. Jesus - it seems like a palava especially when Homme insists on using PoS amps.

Found the thread:-
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-eri...f-details.html

I think there's further stuff on guitar tone for other bands e.g. Lost Prophets (hohoho) in the Q&A session with Mr Valantine that might be of interest. I'm not particuarly techie but it's cool to read up on recording sessions for your fave bands (even if I understand eff all of what's being said)!

Cheers.
Old 10th June 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 
braztneme's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosapien View Post
I'd be interested in this myself.

I think MrAbbott has done a good job on his GiantGiant EP which he posted here a day or two ago but he's yet to get back to me on how he achieved it.

As for QOTSA I've read a Q&A on here which went into some depth on the guitar sound for Songs For The Deaf. Jesus - it seems like a palava especially when Homme insists on using PoS amps.

Found the thread:-
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-eri...f-details.html

I think there's further stuff on guitar tone for other bands e.g. Lost Prophets (hohoho) in the Q&A session with Mr Valantine that might be of interest. I'm not particuarly techie but it's cool to read up on recording sessions for your fave bands (even if I understand eff all of what's being said)!

Cheers.
Thank you so much for this one thread you posted. That Eric Valentine statement is very motivational. That pic of one of Josh's sets with the ampeg * is awesome!!!

Hope more people show interest in this thread

Cheers
Old 10th June 2013
  #5
pan
Lives for gear
 
pan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by braztneme View Post
Anyone have a opinion about this? Some cool tip to make those fat guitars work together with the bass and not become a problem when mixing?
Recording with less distortion/gain/overdrive/fuzz than you think you'd need.

Cut nasty resonances in the 2-4k range.
Old 10th June 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan View Post
Recording with less distortion/gain/overdrive/fuzz than you think you'd need.
**** yeah to that.
Old 10th June 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
batsbrew's Avatar
 

HPF


is key
Old 11th June 2013
  #8
Gear Head
 
braztneme's Avatar
 

Any suggestions for this tune in particular?

https://soundcloud.com/studio-coruja/the-chase

I HPF all the guitars and recorded it with low overdrive, things that I had already learned by the post of the thread.

But with this tune I feel lack of depth on the guitars. It may be some other mix/master mistake confusing my thoughts but I would like some more accurate tips and those and similar guitar sounds.
Old 11th June 2013
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by braztneme View Post
Any suggestions for this tune in particular?

https://soundcloud.com/studio-coruja/the-chase

I HPF all the guitars and recorded it with low overdrive, things that I had already learned by the post of the thread.

But with this tune I feel lack of depth on the guitars. It may be some other mix/master mistake confusing my thoughts but I would like some more accurate tips and those and similar guitar sounds.
Are you trackIng a direct signal that can be used for a simulator? I have been adding amp simulators with tracked amps lately with good results. Also a LPF is helpfull to. Most amps I record lately have way too much high end crap. I think the Presence control on any modern amp is trouble waiting to happen. Modern puckups have no need for a trashy high end boost..IMO.
Old 11th June 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
batsbrew's Avatar
 

depth

could be a simple matter of placing the microphone in such a way as to capture room sound off of a cabinet.

but what does this have to do with 'mud'?
Old 19th June 2013
  #11
Gear Nut
Some recording engineers HPF guitars on recording.
As a mixer you cannot say that HPF is always necessary.
It'd be better to say that what you want is to create a blend between guitars and bass such that there is no masking.
Whether that's achieved by HPF, shelving eq, peaking eq, multi band compression, ducking... whatever works
That's up to creativity and ear.

I have not tried myself: another technique is to create your rhythm guitars in layers of different sound character. One layer could be slightly overdriven but retaining a lot of the string impact, another layer is more distorted. Blend and compress as needed. Check time alignment, and I guess you should check for phase cancellation.

Another thing to watch out how you setup your bus compression.
Eventually you might want to separate guitars so that they don't trigger the compressor and kill everything else.

I hope this helps
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