The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
I think it's done - Hendrix/Black Keys Dynamic Microphones
Old 1st September 2011
  #1
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

I think it's done - Hendrix/Black Keys

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this mix. This is the first mix I did after reading Mixerman's Zen & the Art, which I really enjoyed.

I give major credit to the musicians here. They were fantastic, took care of their instruments, and played along with all my shenanigans during tracking.

I thought the comparison to Hendrix was obvious (more-so on other songs), but when the lead dude said they get compared to the Black Keys I decided to lean toward Brothers for the mix. I'm no Tchad Blake, but here's the result. The arrangement didn't support the extremes of the brothers mix, so the drums are a lot brighter and more modern.

What do you think? I have a long way to go, your advice is appreciated.

Old 1st September 2011
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
The J's Avatar
Expand guitars wider.
Cut lil bit of mids on overheads to get cymbals closer to the whole mix(very very little, ~1db)
Old 1st September 2011
  #3
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Thanks dude. Yea, pushing the delayed guitar out for the chorus would probably work well.

My own listening notes this morning (it was a long night):
-Dial back nasal squirt on kik. Added that for all the wrong reasons.
-Ride bottom snare. Too loud during some parts / fills.
-big picture: see if you can be more extreme in some parts +contrast.
Old 1st September 2011
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
The J's Avatar
I was thinking about asking you to make vocals more clear, more "crystal", but I guess vocals are perfect.
May be if u send AUX with vocal's light flange effect or some other FX - its gonna sound Godlike.

Cheerz, John.
Thx for a good track, I listened it thrice.

You can slightly change panning of vocals at words "Please let me BE" when he sings mixed vocals - to make em sound in unison with guitar.

Last edited by The J; 1st September 2011 at 02:55 PM.. Reason: more ideas
Old 1st September 2011
  #5
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Thanks John,

Yea, vox are pretty grimy. I did mult the vox to a clean channel of smoothly compressed 'intelligibility' frequencies. I think tucking that in helped. Your suggestion of flange is intriguing ;-)
Old 1st September 2011
  #6
Lives for gear
 

I think it all sounds great, and I think you've done a very good job in getting a Black Keys sound.

The guitar tone I'm not sure of though. At the very least, you need to address something there that's nasty (not in a good way) on the very opening guitar note, where something is sounding (unintentionally) discordant. If that thing - whatever it is - happened later in the song it wouldn't matter, but it's the opening and it can't be there. Suspect it's something unfortunate, like some weird harmonic resulting from the distortion meeting a not-quite-bent-enough string or something: does nobody else hear it? Like a flattened fifth that sounds... flat.

But the guitar tone in general just doesn't sound quite right. You get used to it, and it settles, and even becomes quite tasty, like cheap red wine, but it sounds a bit, I dunno, lo-fi or boxy or something.

So, in my very very humble opinion, make only minor tweaks, if you have to make any at all, to anything else, cos it's sounding pretty damn good, but you need to EQ those guitars a bit differently; they sound demo-ey.

Oh, you know that part at 1.35 - "your thing makes you older", or whatever he's saying - would sound AMAZING with a fierce falsetto backing vocal an octave up (T-Rex style). Get them back in to add one.

EDIT: listened a second time and the guitars sounded fine. Make of that what you will. First impression could be wrong, could be right...

Last edited by binarymilton; 1st September 2011 at 08:01 PM.. Reason: might have been talking out my arse.
Old 1st September 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by binarymilton View Post
But the guitar tone in general just doesn't sound quite right., I dunno, lo-fi or boxy or something.

...
Do you honestly think the guitar sound was'nt on purpose?



Sounds awesome.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
 

....it's a cool track......it's got a nice sloppy vibe to it....hence i would lay the vocal back a little...it seems to sit right on top of the beat....give it a lttle swing and swagger.....IMHO
Old 2nd September 2011
  #9
Lives for gear
 

.....nah strike my last comment......was listening on laptop....just connected to my speakers and heard the low end.....it sits pretty good
Old 2nd September 2011
  #10
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Thanks for all the thoughts, seriously. It helps so much to fight the "getting lost in own head" problem.

This was recorded for a "Live from Bad Racket" video, so changes to performance / overdubs are not really an option. Though I agree, it would be fun! And dang if that falsetto wouldn't be the first one I'd want to do.... mmmm.

And yea butterfly, I hear what you're saying when I focus on it. It hadn't crossed my mind because I wasn't messing with the performance. But yea, he was a little nervous I think.

Just opened the file. Nabbed that really annoying splat squirting with the kik. (spikes 1.34k and 4.5k). It was a weird one - sounded fine with drum bus soloed. Didn't become annoying until guitars were brought in.

I tried the flange aux. Too much was too much, and a little just seemed to push the vox further back / make em blurrier. I've never flanged vocals before though, so I'm sure there is magic to be found with more fiddling and experience.

I added even more grunt to the low tom during the lone "verse" part.

I panned the 80ms delayed guitar out after the verse & throughout the rest of the song. Thanks for the suggestion. I also found a nice opportunity to mirror the guitarist's body during the walkdown around 1:32 by alternating some light panning on the GT bus.

Thanks again to everyone so far, and ideas still to come.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #11
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Updated Mix

It's rare for me to tweak a song and do more good than harm. I attribute a lot of that to your guidance.

Ha, well maybe I DID do more harm than good. We'll see.

Old 2nd September 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 
john caldwell's Avatar
Prefer mix 1, but felt a less dry vocal treatment would make sense. very good on the whole.

John Caldwell
Old 2nd September 2011
  #13
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

:-) More harm than good? Not the first time!

I think I prefer the wetter vox too. We'll see what the morning brings.

[edit]: Hmm, well the level on the first mix is a bit higher - - so that might affect preference. The 2nd one has better intelligibility of vox I think, which I like. I think the 2nd one would sound better in my friend's car, for example.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #14
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

I can't believe I stayed up to do another revision. I'm sure my objectivity is completely shot (I slept at the studio last night!).

Anyway, here goes. I'm posting these mostly to have a record of 'zoned' revisions, so I can review what actually happens during them. Forgive me.

And thanks again.

Old 2nd September 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Do you honestly think the guitar sound was'nt on purpose?
If you'd read my post, you'd have read me say that the second time I listened to it, the guitars sounded fine to me.

But, to be pedantic about a general principle, it is irrelevant whether or not something is done on purpose.

This doesn't apply to this thread in any way, but, for the sake of argument, I might sing something totally out of tune to create a deliberate effect, but it still might totally suck as an idea in context.

Listened again today, and I still think that opening guitar crunch ain't great. That particular thing (not the overall guitar tone) is the only thing letting this performance down IMO. It's no biggie, it's only 1 second in the song, but it's a shame it's right at the opening.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #16
Gear Head
 
Michael Grafl's Avatar
 

I have a weak spot for the Black Keys, and I think the mix sounds great for what it is. It sounds warm and organic.

I wouldn't change a thing.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #17
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Thanks guys. Yea, I think the last posted mix is the final. Mayyybe the guitars / stereo image is a bit bassy? I'm in the mood not to care - until I hear it floooping on some cheap speakers that is.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

I love it! Dig the first mix - don't change a thing.

Cool tune man -
Old 2nd September 2011
  #19
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Hi GGR, You also prefer the first mix to the last one? Hmm. Might have some choosing to do ;-)
Old 2nd September 2011
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
The J's Avatar
3th mix sounds right for me.
Old 2nd September 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by awagner08 View Post
Hi GGR, You also prefer the first mix to the last one? Hmm. Might have some choosing to do ;-)
That's correct sir!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

The first mix sounds the most right to me...not listening specifically.... but from the ear in my gut...good job!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #23
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

One more

I tried to clean up some stuff that I broke in the revision process in order to keep the things I liked about the new versions, but bring it a little closer to the first mix in other ways </ramble>.

Here it is.




Kind of laughing at my thread title now: "I think it's done" - ha!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Wow you are stubborn with the mix... I'll compare the old with the new mix later today.

I just visit your homepage, groovy space you got!

XXX!
Old 3rd September 2011
  #25
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Ha, yea I guess I am being stubborn. :-)

I still like the last mix in the morning, but need to do some serious 2 bus volume automation during the instrumental bridge so the last chorus kicks in much harder.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #26
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

sharing the signal chain just for fun:

board: Mackie :/ (not even the onyx) Didn't eq on the board.
interface: M-audio pro fire

Everything but vocals tracked live.


DRUMS
kick: Shure beta 91a, beta 52
Snare: sm57 top & bottom
Hi tom: EV 465
Low tom: 421
OH: Oktava mk012s
Room: u87 omni

Bass: re20 (ART Pro MPA preamp - bypassed mackie)

Guitar: 421, sm57 (ART PRO MPA preamp)

Vocals: re20 (overdub, so the ART was available again)
Old 3rd September 2011
  #27
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Your stubbornness paid off... Last mix sounds great! Vocals sound expensive... What did you do? Love the song and mix...
Old 3rd September 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 
greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Ha ha - I just ordered Mixerman's Zen and Daily adventures...
Old 4th September 2011
  #29
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Thanks man!

I have a few more changes in mind (bass up a bump, some vox automotion, that 2-bus volume drop during bridge + slam up for last chorus) , but I think I'll stop spamming this thread with mixes, haha.

Hmm, changes I made during last mix revision:

DRUMS
sidechained kick to fast attack/release multiband comp on OH at 105hz
pulled out 1.5 db at 105hz on kick to reduce the hooooommmp & make some room for bass, which has most energy around 100hz.

Boosted 1.5 db @ 2k on snare to counteract some 2k cuts later down the chain.

VOX
sidechained vox to multiband comp on guitar bus, pulling out 2k and 600hz by up to 4db.

Boosted 10hz on vox.

MASTERING
Did some m/s EQing reduce rumble of guitars in S channel. 1.5db smiley face in M channel. Bump in the sub range.
Old 4th September 2011
  #30
Gear Nut
 
awagner08's Avatar
 

Good decision to get Mixerman's books btw. Good stuff.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump