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Ysaye - Ballad No.3 | Solo Sonata for Violin
Old 6th February 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Ysaye - Ballad No.3 | Solo Sonata for Violin

Hey folks,

yesterday I did a location recording in a concert hall for the testing purpose and I´m very interested in your opinions about it.

You should find 3 attachments of which the first excerpt is my favorite, featuring only the room stereo mic arrangement with some [email protected] I´m pretty unsure if I should also use an on-stage mic i captured as well. It is to be heard in the two following attachments in different mix combinations.
So far I´m already content with the stereo recording despite that it could sound just a little more direct/nearer to the source (the added hi-shelve gives it something..). Otherwise I seem to be getting more problems with the direct mic (which for itself does have a way too harsh sound, I think) than it would improve the sound (although it was actually nearly exactly 3 to 1 in distance).

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

BTW I didn´t post the used equipment because I would like to hear uncoloured opinions. Maybe somebody guesses the direction?

Regards to this interesting community! So far I only read passively and I like it.
Krischan
Old 10th February 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
wallace's Avatar
 

Hey.

I like the first too. The third is too thin, and I think the DI brings out too much of the "hairiness" of the bow. The room verb is nice!! What is the piece?
Old 11th February 2006
  #3
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Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 

I prefer he first one - room.mp3. The spot mic produced a lower quality sound, IMO. Is the ambiance all natural, or was there any verb added? Very nice sound.

Tim
Old 11th February 2006
  #4
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for your replies.

Well, the direct sound rather comes through an AKG SE391b than through a DI.. but it was located as an "overhead" 1,5m away from the head of the violinist, more in the right front of her view, to take advantage of the sound radiation of the fullest spectrum of the instrument.

And on the stereo ("room") mics i have not used any reverb effect at all! I only captured the concert hall the best way i thought it would be.

I wonder if I should use a very light compression setting because the whole set contains some really quiet passages. But if the loud passages (mp3s) do please you I shouldn´t worry that one has to raise the overall volume, or should I? I mean, the dynamics make a big effect on the work and it´s classical, after all.. but that could be audible even if it was slightly compressed and was more compatible with the stereo afterwards.
Old 17th February 2006
  #5
Gear Nut
 

To complete this thread since there seem no further replies coming..:

The room sound was recorded really low-endish with two Oktava MK012 mics in an ORTF-arrangement (as the best part) into a behringer ADA8000, noise reduction with Waves x-noise (I recorded the lots of hiss and noise floor from the preamps in that session to filter it out later, it worked nice without much compromise).

That was just a test with which I was quite content, now that I got an FMR Audio RNP I look forward to the next recording in similar circumstances ... using these much better preamps and the A/D of my RME HDSP.
Old 17th February 2006
  #6
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wallace's Avatar
 

Hmm. So you used the Waves no-noise plugin to get rid of a lot of noise from the room? What db setting did you have on your preamps? Did the noise plugin change the high end a lot? Sometimes I notice it makes it a little more dull. How far away from the source were the room mics?
Old 17th February 2006
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Yes, I used Waves X-Noise on the room mics to remove the noise from the preamps which were at 57dB (and there still was more than enough of headroom).. The max setting of 60dB would have brought up too much of it on the preamps, it was an unproportional difference..
The plugin features a hi-shelf function for the threshold setting which I also used. It was a really drastic setting removing 25dB of noise and I say it did a very good job, just checked that back..

There is a little compromise going on here but it´s better like this than with such a lot of noise in such a dynamic recording (which did not loose hi-fidelity at all for my taste!). After all, the next time my new RNP won´t let me worry about this again..

The ORTF was positioned in the first row, maybe 10-13ft away and almost centered between floor and ceiling.
Old 17th February 2006
  #8
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wallace's Avatar
 

What was the roll-off frequency that you used? I think the default is 4.5 k? Let me listen again to your recording. Sometimes the waves stuff add a kind of unpleasant distortion. Did you do any EQing? Also can you explain the ORTF mic method?
Old 18th February 2006
  #9
Gear Nut
 

ORTF = Office de Radiodiffusion Télévision Française = 2 cardioid microphone capsules / 17cm distance / 110° angle - stereo technique using a combination of delay time and level differences for imaging.

Maybe I stated it easy to misunderstand (if so, sorry for that!) - the high shelf setting in the X-Noise plugin was almost negligible, [email protected]
The plugin was set to remove 25dB of hiss generally. And I had no problem with the high end when comparing it.

EQ was a high-shelve [email protected], [email protected] (wideQ) and 12dB highpass filter at 75hz.

Do you hear unpleasant distortion?

Next time I´ll record in 96khz, won´t need (at least not so much) noise reduction, get 1-2feet closer and carefully add a little parallel compression, then downsample and see what i got.
Old 13th February 2009
  #10
Here for the gear
 

KriSh > Please, could you tell us which microphone you did use to record each of the three samples. In other words, 1/ which one for the Room, 2/ which one for the Room Direct and 3/ which one for the Direct Room ?

Thanks
Old 13th February 2009
  #11
Gear Nut
 

A pretty old thread you dug out!

As written earlier,

Oktava MK012 - ORTF up in the hall = room

then there was a spot mic AKG SE391b close to the violin, mixed in for the other samples.

An afterthought: The RNP sounds better indeed (i find it more focused and less smeary overall, I guess due to the lower distortion) but for higher gain settings it has about the same noise level inherent in the ADA8000 for me..
Old 15th February 2009
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Thank you very much

I am just looking for information regarding the AKG C361B before buying it. It is for recording my violin on my own at home. I will use a Soundcraft EPM6. This C391B seems to be more accurate than the Octava. That's the reason why I prefer the second and the third samples.

If you had any other violin recordings made with the AKG, I would be glad, if not, it doesn't matter.
Old 16th February 2009
  #13
Gear Nut
 

The varying results are a whole lot less dependent on the microphones having a lot of features (sdc, cardioid,..) in common than the placement itself.

The room ortf pair really is faar away in the hall while the akg one is a pretty close mic directly on stage.
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