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Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss
Old 5th August 2005
  #1
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss

This mix was recorded to my PTLE system, and then mixed In The Box...I summed the master channel internally and then sent it to my SSL comp which was shaving maybe 1db or 2 in the heavy passages.

Looking for any comments mix-wise on this tune. Haven't been recording live drums for very long, so I think I'm still getting the hang of it... shied away from both samples and auto-tune in this mix.


Download here ---->>>Index A - War
Attached Files

Index A- War.mp3 (7.04 MB, 1450 views)

Old 5th August 2005
  #2
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ewegogetemtiger's Avatar
Norman, call me non-critical I guess but that's a quality recording and mix.


somebody with more experience I'm sure could pick it apart but if it were my band I'd be damn happy with it.........
Old 6th August 2005
  #3
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewegogetemtiger
Norman, call me non-critical I guess but that's a quality recording and mix.


somebody with more experience I'm sure could pick it apart but if it were my band I'd be damn happy with it.........
Oh wow.. thanks for the compliment! Listening back I keep wondering if I mixed the vocals too loud... what do you think?
Old 6th August 2005
  #4
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ewegogetemtiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad
Oh wow.. thanks for the compliment! Listening back I keep wondering if I mixed the vocals too loud... what do you think?
No, I don't think the vocals are too loud at all. I've listened to the track a few times now and -- the vocals seem nice and nestled just right...I can hear all the instruments nice and distinctly so it must be right.
Old 6th August 2005
  #5
Damn that sounds kick ass man.


I think the vocal mix is just right in the verses, possibly a tad hot in the heavy parts, but it's perfectly fine how it is.
nice flavors with the doubles popping in and out


excellent work


feel like posting some signal chains?


I'd love to hear more from them (you?)
Old 6th August 2005
  #6
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by everybody's x
excellent work


feel like posting some signal chains?


I'd love to hear more from them (you?)
Thanks for the response/insights. Glad to hear the vocal wasn't too upfront for other people.

As far as the signal chains goes.. I'll start with the drums. They were tracked through an Octopre. Here's the setup:

Overheads --> SM81's (recorderman micing method)
Snare Top --> SM 57
Snare Bottom --> MD421
Kick --> D6
Toms --> 421's

That's it. No room, or hat/ride mic. There's a lot going on ITB as far as routing and plug in chains go. I'd be glad to post more if people are actually interested. ??

Other comments/questions about the mix are welcome.

- Damon
Old 6th August 2005
  #7
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WOW

yea im curious about more i run a pro tools digi 001 and i am new and just geting into tracking drums and for the most part im gona be doing itb too so im real curious cause this is an exelent recording to my ears and i hope to strive for these. Are you clocking your rig to the octopre instead??? im really interested in alot like what kind of room did you track drums in a real dead room??? and im curios of signal chain itb.
Old 6th August 2005
  #8
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Hey Broken,

I was gonna post a some mix details but I think it's just easier if I post some pics. Basically I use aux busses, and effect individual parts of the kit separately then buss these channels to a master drum buss aux where the drums see even more processing, this is then sent to the 2-buss.

I primarily use the Sonalksis and the Uad plugs for Comp and EQ. Convolution Reverb and Digital Fish Phones plugs for gates and transient modulator. The Waves Trans Mod snuck it's way onto the kick drum in this mix.

The drums were tracked in a large and VERY "live" sounding room. 25' x 40' with 25' ceilings.

One happy accident was that the gates allowed the some of every snare hit through, which, due to the compression on the toms buss, gave the snare some extra thwack along with a little more room sound.

Here are some picks. Hope this is somehow useful. Glad to answer any questions on vox, guitar, and bass if you have any.
Attached Thumbnails
Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-drums-master-buss.jpg   Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-kick-buss.jpg   Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-main-mix.jpg   Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-snare-buss.jpg   Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-toms-buss.jpg  

Old 6th August 2005
  #9
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hey if im gona use these vst plugins, i have vst/rtas wraper thing and i was wondering exactly how i install and get them to work on protools cause i thought you had to put a file in the vst/rtas wrapper folder and im just a little lost any help could be nice thanks!!!
Old 6th August 2005
  #10
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken81
hey if im gona use these vst plugins, i have vst/rtas wraper thing and i was wondering exactly how i install and get them to work on protools cause i thought you had to put a file in the vst/rtas wrapper folder and im just a little lost any help could be nice thanks!!!
Yeah... it's easy. You just put all of your VST ".dll" files into the "Vstplugins" folder inside of the FXpansion folder. Then use VSTRtasCfg icon to convert the plugs. They should then show up in your plug in lists within Protools. Good luck!
Old 6th August 2005
  #11
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Thumbs up

Cool song and really nice mix, I like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad
Listening back I keep wondering if I mixed the vocals too loud... what do you think?
The vocals aren't too loud, but they sound a bit hard in the upper mids and highs, so does the mix. I wished to hear a bit more moving air from the kick, maybe a tad more bass and lower mids overall to compensate the hardness a bit. I also missed a bit of dimenson.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds more dramatic than it is! These are more subtile things or may be just my taste. I attached you a mp3 where I'd tried to simulate.

Andreas
Old 6th August 2005
  #12
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
Cool song and really nice mix, I like it!


The vocals aren't too loud, but they sound a bit hard in the upper mids and highs, so does the mix. I wished to hear a bit more moving air from the kick, maybe a tad more bass and lower mids overall to compensate the hardness a bit. I also missed a bit of dimenson.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds more dramatic than it is! These are more subtile things or may be just my taste. I attached you a mp3 where I'd tried to simulate.

Andreas
Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the insight. I must admit that I have a tendancy to scoop some of the lower mids when using middle of the road pre's.. I find the octropre tends to sound a bit muddy in this area.

I do like the mix you posted! I think your mix has a little more "meat" to it. What did you do.. just a small broad Q boost around 500hz?
Old 6th August 2005
  #13
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Hi Norman,

it was all done quickly ITB. First I pushed 5db at 90Hz, than I've done some multiband compressing, at last I used a little L2 threshold at -3db I think. When I'm back in the studio, I'll make some screenshots of the plugins and post it for you.

btw. the vocals are still sounding to thin/equed to me, I think they are missing some dbs around 100-200Hz. Couldn't do that overall because the mix would be affected to much.


Andreas
Old 7th August 2005
  #14
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some of my vst plugins wana install themselfs, Now do i just install then find folder and steal the dll file and switch it to the fxexpansion folder how do i go about that if vst has to be instaled??
Old 7th August 2005
  #15
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DirkB's Avatar
Not bad at all!

I'm listening on crappy puter speakers so can't comment too much on the mix, although I have the feeling that a little more lowend, more "harmony" between kick and bass could help. The singer sounds awsome, great voice.

Did you use an under snare mic? Sounds like that, or it's from the overheads, but it makes the snare a little too acoustic sounding for my taste. I'd try lowering the overheads a little (too loud for my taste, but they sound nice) and have the snare a little fatter, perhaps some compression with fast attack, fast release. Or if the snare is peaking in the overheads, try a fast compressor on the overheads.

Cool song...

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 8th August 2005
  #16
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
Is that Gavin singing?

That song is f'n awesome. The mix is really good too. I do think the top end overall is a bit brittle. What did you do to the 2buss ITB? And is that an SSL384 (it don't sound like it) or is it one of those SSL clones (it sounds like one)?

I like where everythings sitting in the mix. I do think the bass could use a touch more definition. You can hear it but sometimes it get's lost. Maybe some 2-4K? The snare sounds thin too. It's cutting nice, but dosen't have a lot of body. This might be caused by whatever is making the top overall brittle sounding.

I love where the vocal is sitting. I like it even when the song kicks in. Very nice mix overall. Congrats. I like the sound of the drums too. You can hear they were tracked in a big room and I love that personally.

My only mix comment would be where he holds the note at 3:04. I think you should send it to a plate there and increase the send and fader volume as the note goes on. You could also add a bit of delay in too. This will cause the voice to "swell" into this big ambient bliss.

I also think the distorted heavy guitars could use a touch more crunch, but this might kill the vibe. I'd have to hear it to know if it would work for sure, but if I was mixing this that's what I'd do.

Overall it sounds f'n great. Nice work!
Thanks for the response.

Yeah the singer sometimes sounds like Gavin dead on. I had some fun with the band and had them all sit around the computer to listen to the final mixes then I played "Everything Zen". haha.. good times.

Anyways.. back to the mix... you're right, the SSL isn't a 384 exactly... it's a clone that I built which employs a very similar topology to the 384. The components, such as the caps and VCA's are different, mostly standard-fare modern stuff. Panasonic FC series and whatnot. I think it sounds a little too hi-fi sometimes, and might have contributed a bit to the over brightness of the mix.

As far as the plate, delay swell thing on the vox, I actually am doing a little bit of that... maybe not enough? In my recent vocal mixes I've been getting way into setting up a verb, delay, chorus, random effect on different auxes and riding these for certain phrases, words, parts throughout the mix.

I'll try to work on a better balance in my next mix. Thanks for the comments!
Old 8th August 2005
  #17
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken81
some of my vst plugins wana install themselfs, Now do i just install then find folder and steal the dll file and switch it to the fxexpansion folder how do i go about that if vst has to be instaled??
Just install your VST plugs like you normally would. Then go to the folder in your computer where the .dll's are sent. Many times a "Steinberg" folder. Copy all of your .dll files and paste them into the FXpansion folder. Does this make sense?
Old 8th August 2005
  #18
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cool i did and all worked out great!!!!! thanks bro
Old 8th August 2005
  #19
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here the screenshots...

Andreas
Attached Thumbnails
Hard Rock - ITB Mix, SSL 2buss-linmb.jpg  
Old 8th August 2005
  #20
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
here the screenshots...

Andreas
Cool! Thanks for sharing!
Old 10th August 2005
  #21
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dim light's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
here the screenshots...

Andreas
Yes, great - I like Andreas G's - version! That's what I missed in the first version.

I think the snare is a little thin to - I would give it some lo end boost - think the guitars need some fat to. Great song!

Cool!
Old 10th August 2005
  #22
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opentune's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
Is that Gavin singing?
Overall it sounds f'n great. Nice work!
This is exactly what i thought while listening to the tune. I had no
problem with the singer sounding like Gavin. I dig the song! thumbsup
Old 20th August 2005
  #23
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Saudade's Avatar
 

Hi Norman!

I just spent a few hours digging through these pages and listening to over 20 mixes-in-progress, and yours was the last I chanced upon.

I must say it is also the BEST!

May I ask what is the recording/mixing hardware/software chain for the vocals? The way the vocal sits in the mix is soooooooo PRO! It makes the whole song sound like a finished record already, despite a few minor room for improvements in the other intruments.

I have been searching for the way to make vocals sound like this......sounds dry and warm, not overly-compressed but dynamically well-controlled, sounds naturally un-eq'ed but that's quite unimaginable given the fact it still sits prettily in its "sonic throne" in the passages when the heavy guitars come in. WOW!

Makes me think you got the magic vocal chain that happen to fit this singer like a glove!!! Or could it be just that the vocal performance is definitely good? heh

Great song, great work!
Old 20th August 2005
  #24
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade
Hi Norman!

I just spent a few hours digging through these pages and listening to over 20 mixes-in-progress, and yours was the last I chanced upon.

I must say it is also the BEST!

May I ask what is the recording/mixing hardware/software chain for the vocals? The way the vocal sits in the mix is soooooooo PRO! It makes the whole song sound like a finished record already, despite a few minor room for improvements in the other intruments.

I have been searching for the way to make vocals sound like this......sounds dry and warm, not overly-compressed but dynamically well-controlled, sounds naturally un-eq'ed but that's quite unimaginable given the fact it still sits prettily in its "sonic throne" in the passages when the heavy guitars come in. WOW!

Makes me think you got the magic vocal chain that happen to fit this singer like a glove!!! Or could it be just that the vocal performance is definitely good? heh

Great song, great work!
Hey Saudade,

Thanks for the comments.

My hardware vocal chain for this singer was -> SM7 -> Chandler TG2 -> A/D.

ITB chain was -> UAD 140 Plate (small space settings, mixed VERY low) -> UAD Pultec -> Elemental Audio Neodynium (vocal 2 preset) -> UAD 1176 -> Digital Fish Phones "Spitfish" Desser.

On auxes I also set up a main vocal: verb, delay, chorus, misc effect.

I ride the fiders on all of these auxes for different parts of the mix. I tend to bump the delay in louder passages or held notes... you get the picture.

The vocals are actually VERY compressed, but they don't sound too squashed .. and this has everything to do with setting up the Neodynium before a more traditional compressor like the 1176. The Neodynium acts as an "upwards" compressor pulling low level information up while the 1176 pulls louder passages down. The result is a VERY controlled vocal, which needs little volume automation to get it to sit right in a heavy mix.

The singer is also very good... which makes my job a lot easier! heh
Old 21st August 2005
  #25
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Grooooovy baby!

I have the UAD-1 but still saving up to buy the 140. It is item 243 on my shopping list. I tried some free convolution impulses of the actual UAD-1 140 itself, and was completely bowed over by the sound! It is really has that vintage vibe.

I was just reading about the Neodynium the other day and wonder if all that trouble to struggle with such a cryptic user interface would be worth it. But you have just proven the point. Looks like it's not on of those "would be great if it
actually works" concept products after all!

And the Chandler TG-2........aaaahhhhh.....my dream mic pre for years now since I read about it in this forum......now you have just made me lust after it even more...........way out of my budget though for amateurs like me

Is the SM7 a dynamic or a condenser? I searched the web and found contradictory reports, especially with the 7a and 7b models adding to the confusion. What A/D were you using btw? Sorry for probing....just wanted some reassurance that a non-top shelf A/D won't compromise my quest for the golden vocal sound too much!

Thanks for the insight into your gear/techniques!
Old 21st August 2005
  #26
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DeeDrive's Avatar
 

Great mix, I really love the bass guitar, but that kick drum drives me nuts. I think this D6 is a plague. Maybe if you rolled off some of the high-end, it wouldn't stand out so much. Everything else sounds great though, vocals are mixed perfectly as far as I'm concerned. The part where the vocal goes "you,you,you,you", that's totally a bush song though. Nice job.
Old 22nd August 2005
  #27
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDrive
Great mix, I really love the bass guitar, but that kick drum drives me nuts. I think this D6 is a plague.
I used the D6 to mic the bass cab. So I guess we can downgrade it to an "infection". heh
Old 22nd August 2005
  #28
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade
Is the SM7 a dynamic or a condenser? I searched the web and found contradictory reports, especially with the 7a and 7b models adding to the confusion. What A/D were you using btw? Sorry for probing....just wanted some reassurance that a non-top shelf A/D won't compromise my quest for the golden vocal sound too much!
The SM7 is a dynamic. The is no important differences between the A and B version. The B is the most current, and the one I own. The A/D used for all of the recording except the drums (Octrapre), was a Kurzweil "Mangler". I set it in bypass and use it just for its converters.

Hope this helps!
Old 22nd August 2005
  #29
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Great job. Question is this on 001 or 002 and Mac or PC. How was processing power holding out...that seems like alot of plugs going on?

Again nice job.
Old 22nd August 2005
  #30
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by amost
Great job. Question is this on 001 or 002 and Mac or PC. How was processing power holding out...that seems like alot of plugs going on?

Again nice job.
I work on a PC, 002R. I'm running a 2800 Athelon XP (I'm pretty sure it's a 2800). Processing isn't much of a problem.. mostly due to the fact that I submix. I create sessions for the drums.. mix them down, the create a session for bass and guitar... mix that down then create a session for vocals.. mix that down and create a session for the master 2 track file.

It's a huge PIA, takes forever to do mix edits, but that's PTLE... convolution verbs suck up a lot of power, and a limited track count forces me to work this way.

Thanks for posting comments.
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