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Need All Ya'lls Ears/Wisdom
Old 22nd July 2005
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Question Need All Ya'lls Ears/Wisdom

Sorry for the idiotic q......

Okay, so I have just completed my first live drum session on a project done for my brother in law's wedding (he wrote a song, I sang played everything but drums etc. I have a hard time getting the vox to rest nicely in the mix without being stomped on by other things (namely acoustics, guitars, etc.)

This is my first full project front to end and I am producing/writing/engineering for a my first real client next week....

I have heard things about side-chaining, etc. but for the life of me can find no resources out there (other than hiring someone to show me how.....

I use Dp4.6/Waves Platinum, and hardly any outboard gear (other than an Avalon Pre, couple API's, RNC)

Is there any one out there who has the patience to walk a baby through this?

I know many of you have spent many years honing your skills doing this and are reticent to give up your goodies.

many thanks to the masters who take on this grasshopper....I will be a humble student...

I'll post the tune as well.... ( as soon as I figure out how the hell to do that....)


rt
Attached Files

My Love Msterv2fade2.mp3 (5.13 MB, 344 views)

Old 22nd July 2005
  #2
Here for the gear
 

clarification

holy crap,,,is it that bad?

I should tell you I am not a paid engineer/producer/writer but I hope to be shortly.

All the instruments were done extremely quickly (hence the tuning issues), I had never even recorded a live guitar before. All the gear I am working on is a friends who has decided to take a chance on me developing some chops to work as an engineer/producer in his studio.

Yes, I know my vocal performance leaves the world to be desired...but for $150 bucks and nothing to start with, a twenty minute rewrite of lyrics, some music to write, and a prayer, my bro in law will have his silly song to dance to....

btw, I am not a big country music fan, but he liked it, so that's where I aimed...

oh well, hanging it out there is all we can do, no?

have a great weekend al...

rt
Old 22nd July 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I have a hard time getting the vox to rest nicely in the mix without being stomped on by other things (namely acoustics, guitars, etc.)
This sounds really good. I really like it a lot. Snappy hook, good playing, good song. Your singing sounds fine to me.

Quote:
have heard things about side-chaining, etc. but for the life of me can find no resources out there (other than hiring someone to show me how.....
I'm not convinced sidchaining or "ducking" is the answer here. Maybe a little more compression on the lead vocal and then push it up a db or two. Or automate the parts where a word or two get lost in the instruments. Instead of automating the vocal ride the guitar parts with automation. You can manually duck the guitars with automation by riding them. Bring them up a little during the parts where the vocals aren't playing and down a little when you're singing. Try to "introduce" the part at the higher level right before the vocal starts each chorus and then bring them down.

Quote:
Is there any one out there who has the patience to walk a baby through this? ... I know many of you have spent many years honing your skills doing this and are reticent to give up your goodies. ... many thanks to the masters who take on this grasshopper....I will be a humble student...
I'm also not convinced you need any help as good as your mix sounds but here's some other (subjective) ideas...

Maybe on the chorus peak the midrange eq a tad on the lead vocal and then bring it back for the verses? You can also try a really short mono delay which may seperate the vocal more.

Parallel compression also could help. Mult the vocal (send it to another track) and compress the hell out of the second copy at some insane ratio. Roll off the highs and lows. Bring that track up with the original until your vocal is more present.

Make a small eq cut from the distorted guitars right at the vocal range to make more room for the vocal. Although they sound great as they are there is a little masking going on.

When all else fails here's one surefire way to get a vocal into it's own space quickly. A really good (really really good!), really short, really tight reverb. Use your "best" verb at 0.3 seconds. 5-10ms pre delay, no longer than 12-15ms. Bring the returns up until the vocal seperates from the music and it sounds "fake" and wrong. Back it down until it sounds much more natural and better. Find the best balance between seperation and "effect".

This does not work well with cheap reverbs which don't do small rooms well. It works really well with the small Lexicon rooms and chambers. When you're done you should not really hear any obvious reverb but the vocal will be there for all to hear, in more of it's own space. Send both of those tracks to a short (L40ms/R50ms 10% regen) stereo delay and mix it in where you can almost not hear it. On the chorus bring that stereo delay up about 1.5db or with automation.

BTW... Cut away any midrangey (1-2k) sound from the short reverb returns with EQ. Roll of the highs (6-7k) and the lows @ 100hz.

There's a lot of things to try but the bottom line is you're 99% there. You're pulling our collective legs right? Great job. I put this song on my ipod! thumbsup Fine family entertainment!

Lawrence
Old 23rd July 2005
  #4
Here for the gear
 

thanks a ton

Lawrence,

I was dumbfounded by the amount of input you gave me. It is SO appreciated. I am in North Dakota were access to any engineer of any considerable level of skill is hard to come by, let alone find one willing to give you pointers.

The few tricks I use now are ideas gleaned from this wonderful depostiory of information. Then to have someone willing to listen to your stuff without the worry of competitiveness is invaluable.

Thanks so much for your insight. I will take your tricks and head back into the studio!

I am not pulling any legs (collective or otherwise,) I have had DP and a tiny home type studio for a couple of years but only used it as a somewhat beefier scratchpad for my own song ideas. I have just really decided in the last few months to take on this producer/writer/engineer thing as I live for creating music. Unfortunately I make my living as a touring musician in a cover band. 1500 miles last week alone. The bright side is it allows me the time to work on this other idea and hopefully someday it will turn into a career.

I do truly dig the help, we all have dreams, just not many people out there willing to give a leg up without a hand in your pocket..

thank you.....

rt
Old 25th July 2005
  #5
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DeeDrive's Avatar
 

AUTOTUNE!!! Sounds really good, a little two much high end for me, I think that might be why you're having trouble making the AG and the vox sit well together.
Old 25th July 2005
  #6
Here for the gear
 

couple fixes...new mix

so....(here's the new mix)

used the 2 vox track w/nsane compress, rolled hi's/low's out and mixed...brought ac's down a hair and dialed the rooms on the drums back (per a friend.) pulled some mid's around vox range on elec's and that seemed to glue the mix together a bit....

as to the autotune...I agree, I just slapped it on the main vox and let it ride...I am not so concerned with that as this was an overall experiment...individual tracks would have been a lot more of a concern (ie intonation, quality etc....) had this not been for free...

I agree on the overall hi-end....though I suck at mixing, I suck at mastering worse

other than that, what else sticks out (other than it being a relatively boring song?)

thanks for the input

rt
Attached Files

mylove5v3mstrfd.mp3 (5.19 MB, 81 views)

Old 26th July 2005
  #7
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DeeDrive's Avatar
 

I think Autotune is great, you just have to decide if you'd rather have slighty out of tune vox, or that weird Cher thing going on. The Cher thing usually wins for me.
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