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Audio Clips of Rough Mixes from Basics Sessions!!!
Old 5th December 2007
  #1
Audio Clips of Rough Mixes from Basics Sessions!!!

I had what I thought was a pretty good idea the other day. Why not start a thread of postings that include a rough mix (no cheating!) of basics tracks of songs or clips of songs, with detailed descriptions of set ups, techniques, and any sort of amusing "war stories" that may influence the character of the sound.

I feel it'd be a great way to check out other people's approaches, tricks, and equipment you may be unfamiliar with, plus it might just conjur up some funny anecdotes.

In order to keep this fun, we'd all have to avoid any kind of criticism on the quality; this isn't the "Work In Progress/Advice Needed" section, so keep yer damn mouths shut!

Also, remember to (of course!) respect your clients' and artists' privacy, copyrights, etc. Don't get yourself or your studio in trouble!tutt

Remember, this is all in the spirit of fun and learning; I wanna hear your best chops, your biggest/dumbest mistakes, and any interesting esoteric gear you've got. My next post will kick off the thread.

I hope you all enjoy/chime in!
Old 5th December 2007
  #2
The following is an impromptu session I did with my very own band, Motherboar. The song is called "Noose of Fire". Here's the scoop:

I was doing some mixing at my home spot, Mad Oak, one afternoon when the studio tech called me from a very famous band's studio. He told me their long-time producer wanted to swing by the Oak to do some jamming, and possibly record some song ideas he had. We'd be enlisting the help of some of our studio-pals to play on the jam session, including yours truly on the drums.

I set up the studio kit - a DW - in the configuration I'm most comfortable with: 22" kick, 13" rack, 16" floor, and a Yamaha wood-rimmed 14" snare. Got it all mic'd up (details to follow), and set up the cans/bass DI/etc. As I finished plugging in the last mic cable into the last mic, the tech called me. Super-producer forgot he had some music awards show to go to (I imagine the conversation went something like this: "Yeah, sorry to bail, uh, I got this thing...well, yeah, I gotta run, y'know? No...no, I just got this Grammy to go pick up real quick...yeah, we'll get together next time I'm in town...").

So there I was, with a ****load'a mics set up, and no assistant () to tear it down for me. Rather than spend the next next 40 minutes in breakdown-hell, I called my guitar player. We'd been planning on recording a split with a band we just got back from tour with, but the studio is booked thru December, so we figured we'd lay down basics in January. Well, because of this, I had a drum kit, ready to go...I told him to come by, bring my cymbals and a guitar pick, and some beer.

He arrived a few hours later (it was like 9pm at this point), I had him sit at the kit (it was ugly) to help me get some levels/sounds for an hour or so, and off we went! He laid down a scratch track, I laid down my drums, and in about two hours we had four tunes! The next day I edited the drums (including manually strip-silencing the tom tracks, FYI), and later that day (about 7pm) we got back into the studio for bass and rhythm guitars (which, including one trip to the bar at 1.30 am for a coupla last-call drinks, plus one drunken studio tour, lasted till about 5am).

So, here's the set-up (I wish I took pics...I'll do that next time!):

Like I said, the kit's a DW, the snare's a Yamaha (I think it's the Anton Fig model). The heads were all pretty worn, sadly...if I'd of known I was gonna be recording my own **** I'd of gotten new ones on there. Oh well.

Kick In: Audix D-6 - 512 - dbx 160VU (very light compression) - Tube Tech Pultec Clone (a 100Hz cut and a boost at 5 or 8k)
Kick Out: AT 4040 - 1273 - 160VU
Snare Top: MTG umt70 - Wunder PEQ1 (with a little EQ to tape: a bit of 100, a cut at 700 or 1k, and a bit of top)
Snare Bottom: modded 414 - 312
Rack: TLM 170 - 312 - Al Smart C2 (just kissing the thing for some snap)
Floor: TLM 170 - 312 - Al Smart C2 (ditto)
Hats: KM184 - Avalon M5 (with HP filter)
Ride: 451 - Avalon M5 (with HP filter)
OHs: spaced pair Manley Golds - Redd 47s
Close Room: XY MTG M300 - custom pre our tech built
Far Room: spaced pr BLUE Bottles B-0 capsule - Nice Pair - TG2 (driven to distortion)
Center Kit: AEA R84 (between Rack and Floor tom) - 1081 (EQd heavily) - Omnipressor (doing the reverse-gain thing)
Hallway Mic: Audix CSX25 (way down the hall) - 1273

Bass rig went like this:

Instrument - DI - Little Labs Splitter, which fed one signal to a Rat - Swollen Pickle - 1970s SVT - 8x10 (this is Bass Amp 1), the other signal went straight to a Marshall JCM800 combo

Bass DI: Avalon U5 - LA2A (working hard) - Little Labs mini IBP *muted in the rough mix!!*
Bass Amp 1A: D112 - 312
Bass Amp 1B: Bottle B-7 capsule - Redd47
Bass Amp 1C (room): TLM 170 - Nice Pair
Bass Amp 2: 421 - 512 - 1176 (Dr. Pepper setting, doing a coupla or three dB)

Guitar 1 was an Epiphone Les Paul into a JCM 800 head into an Emperor cab

Guitar 1A: AEA R84 - 312
Guitar 2A: AKG 535 - 1081

Both signals were EQ'd and combined to tape.

Guitar 2 was a Gibson Explorer into a Soldano Avenger into an Orange cab.

I used the same mic/pre set up for that rig, with different blends of the two mics.

The function of these two guitars is provided some articulate rhythm tracks. The next round of ODs will include heavily distorted and blown out "big guitar" tracks, as well as some accents using combo amps and a variety of pedals.

Everything was cut into Pro Tools HD at 88.2. There's some monitor EQ and compression happening - both from the board and via plugins - especially on the room mics, and about 6db of expansion on the snare. There's also an ITB plate on the snare (TL Space, to be exact).

The mp3 is encoded at 192kb/s.

Hope this nerd-stuff interests you guys like it does me...I'd love to hear what everyone else is doing!heh
Attached Files

2007.12.4 Noose Of Fire Rough.mp3 (4.92 MB, 8598 views)


Last edited by bgrotto; 5th December 2007 at 10:55 PM.. Reason: attachment didn't work!!
Old 5th December 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 

sorry my only contributin to this thread is...................ur gearlist is ridiculous!!..........hence I suppose the extremely meaty sound of the clip......even in low res mp3.............rock on. So u are recording Mike stern and Dave Weckl.....would love to hear that
Old 6th December 2007
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly View Post
sorry my only contributin to this thread is...................ur gearlist is ridiculous!!..........hence I suppose the extremely meaty sound of the clip......even in low res mp3.............rock on. So u are recording Mike stern and Dave Weckl.....would love to hear that
Yeah, we got some cool stuff at the Oak. But please, give SOME credit to the brilliant engineering and fabulous playing of the mighty stikeMotherboar!stike

hehhehheh

Yeah, I'm pretty god damned spoiled, huh?

Neither the Stern project nor the Weckyl project are gonna make this thread, sadly...cuz then I might get in twuh-ble.
Old 6th December 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
Noose Of Fire sounds good. I like the tune too.
Old 6th December 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
allencollins's Avatar
 

great drummer

sounds killer overall
Old 6th December 2007
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
great drummer

sounds killer overall
Awww, schucks, guys! Thanks...

Seriously, though, enough of the back patting. Post some of yer own ****!! I wanna hear it. Dammit...
Old 6th December 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

I'm impressed!

What did you use to varispeed? What do people find works best these days?

Update: no varispeed? Well I'm even more impressed! heh
Old 6th December 2007
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I'm impressed!

What did you use to varispeed? What do people find works best these days?
There's no varispeed on this tune...what do ya mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
Update: no varispeed? Well I'm even more impressed!
Oooh. Heh heh. Thanks!!
Old 6th December 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
But please, give SOME credit to the brilliant engineering and fabulous playing of the mighty Motherboar!
absolutely! no, that is some powerhouse drumming,no doubt.
Old 6th December 2007
  #11
C'mon, wafflewaitress, try again!

Ever since your umt70 thread I've been dying to hear one of those things on the kick. The mp3 didn't load the first couple times I tried, either. Give it another shot.
Old 6th December 2007
  #12
real nice job bgrottothumbsup...dam you have some gear there heh great thread BTW, much more interesting than the lets compare this pre with that pre thread.

Ok, I got one that is totally different than the style of yours. This is from my home studio built in a large finished garage so not as polished sounding as yours.
This is a rough mix I have posted before with client approval (project isn't finished yet) This is from the first day and things were tweaked as we went along. I think what makes this one interesting and challenging was working with the limitations we had and using what sound we got to our best advantage.

This basic track was recorded live with everybody in one room (no gobos). The amps were attenuated and the drummer was hitting it pretty hard to cut down on bleed into drums from vocals and guitars. They band wanted to do all the basics live like this to capture the chemistry between the players and were willing to sacrifice a bit sound wise. They ended up recording about 22 basics in 5 three hour sessions. Some days they got 6 some days they only got 2 (they didnt care about that). The rule was no more than three takes on a song or they would just move on. They got all the songs done in 1-3 takes max. Sometimes they messed around for over an hour changing an arrangement of the song.
The main bleed came from the drums into the vocal mic so they figured they could overdub the vocal. Turns out they liked what the room sound brought to the drum sound in this song and a few others so we set up a room mic after the first day in a far part of the room which didn't capture any of the guitars in case we needed to fix a small part or re-do a solo in the future. Also we wanted to do some of the main vocal tracks over because one day the singer(guitar player on left) was sick.

There are backup vocals overdubbed on it, other than that there was nothing really done to this track yet(in mixing) other then some rolloff on lows. Mixed in about 5 -10 minutes.

Mixed through toft ATB24.


Right guitar: gibson les paul through 65 fender vibrolux-->sm57-->germanium-->distressor (no pedals)

Left Guitar: Fender telecaster straight into attenuated kendricks wild cat amp(25watt tube 6v6). sm57-->ADL600

Bass DI through Voxbox
Scratch Vocal: SM7b --> ADL600-->Buzz SOC1.1

Premier Signia maple kit with Aquarian studio X heads on toms, Superkick 1 on bass, Evans G1 and Hazy 300 on snare.

KICK Beta 52-->api3124-->manley pultec
HIGH TOMS Studio projects B1-->API 3124
FLOOR TOM B1-->toft on board pre
SNARE Senn 421 --API 3124-->distressor
OH 2 Neumman KM184-->pacifica--Manley mu(very light)
HI HAT at4041-->toft onboard pre

Other notes:
I wanted to use soundelux ifet7 on outside kick but had problems with it the day before we started, tried Peluso 251 but it was a little to high SPL so settled for B1 since it had a PAD. Added 57 bottom snare after first day.

Thats about it. It was a pleasure recording these guys, they were tight. They were relaxed, had fun and just played the music without getting all caught up in the technical aspect of things. As the sessions went on they brought in a few different players and the sound evolved with each session. We are overdubbing some keys and backup vocals now and I am looking forward to mixing. Enjoy

aloha
Attached Files

02 Track 2.mp3 (5.19 MB, 5907 views)

Old 6th December 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 

I like this thread idea. I've worked in such an insular studio vacuum, that I often wonder about the sound coming from other engineer's raw tracks.

I actually think it would be cool to hear individual raw tracks of tunes as well, though this would take a lot of time and bandwidth I suppose. Sometimes I wonder what other engineers feel constitutes a 'good' kick drum, snare, bass guitar, acoustic guitar, etc. sound. Obviously it's all about what sounds good in the context in the mix. Nonetheless, it would still be interesting to hear the raw tracks and a rough mix to show how said raw track fits in the context of said mix.

With any luck, some more folks will contribute mixes to this thread.
Old 8th December 2007
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croaker View Post
dam you have some gear there heh great thread BTW, much more interesting than the lets compare this pre with that pre thread.
You got some pretty decent toys there, yourself!

I had a demo of the ADL600 for a few weeks a couple years ago; I loved it. I'm really digging your Germanium guitar track's tone. Good stuff.

Since no one else seems to be playing along, I've got some more fun stuff to post in the near future, but it'll hafta wait till after my gig (with the Sword!!!) tonight...
Old 8th December 2007
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
You got some pretty decent toys there, yourself!

I had a demo of the ADL600 for a few weeks a couple years ago; I loved it. I'm really digging your Germanium guitar track's tone. Good stuff.

Since no one else seems to be playing along, I've got some more fun stuff to post in the near future, but it'll hafta wait till after my gig (with the Sword!!!) tonight...
thx man..hard to beat a vibrolux with a 57 in front of it hehe. I would like to hear some more roughs also...anybody else??
Old 10th December 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

live rock and roll......

nice tracks. kind of cool to hear what everyone gets before all the crazy mixing BS that we all seem to spend too much time on sometimes !!!

ok..i will play. still have 1 hour to wait for backups before i get out of here...

this is a project i did a few months ago. i had an assistant that was hanging out who took notes...so here they are.....also had a few of the tracking ruffs on my laptop....so i am uploading one song here. we tracked 8 this particular session. this mix is a protools bounce of the days tracking. band is a seriously kick ass new rock band. 3pc. we had 14 hours in a studio to get 8 songs tracked. we setup pretty much like their live setup. 5pc drum kit, ampeg bass rig, marshall jcm800 guitar rig. guitarist sings. band dudes are all 22-23 years old...kick ass players...live, raw, solid band. was a good time. these guys wanted to capture their LIVE sound...which, is pretty awesome....one of the best young bands i have seen in years !! tracked straight to protools MIX with stock 888/24 converters...but some NICE preamps and outboard.

this is all live. vocals and all...the guitarist/vocalist ran through the tune 1 more time and doubled his main guitar part...changing it up a bit...and playing the rythm part over the solo section....the solo was from the live take...we had one bass note that was sour.... we punched that in.

while i was tracking, i was setting up a mix in protools to take home that night. a bit of eq on the snare track, hi pass on overheads, guitars and vocals, and a tiny bit of lexicon plate on snare and a bit more on the vox...a bit of echo farm delay on vox. bass probably had a bit of plugin compression or limiting. no fader moves...just the tracks. while tearing down the gear...i printed rough mixes for all the songs with the same protools mix setup.

here was the tracking setup.

drums: 5pc custom maple kit. 22" kick with 28" old ludwig parade drum out front of the main bass drum, pork pie 6x14 "black beauty" copy. paiste and zildjian k cymbals.

kick audix d6 into daking 52270, daking comp
fok (3' high) at4047 into shadow hills gamma, daking comp
snare shure beta56a into daking 52270 and 1176
overheads audio technica at4031's into shadow hills gamma
room mono coles 4038 into shadow hills gamma into 1176
kit front (low) shiny box ribbons in MS into shadow hills gamma
far room oktava ml52 ribbbon shadow hills gamma

bass: peavey HEAVY 4 string bass into sans amp and ampeg b15

bass di (custom neve transformer di) into api 3124 into distressor
bass distortion di from sans amp classic pedal into api 3124
bass amp b15 with 414 into api 3124 into distressor

guitar: fender custom strat into marshall jcm800 into 4x12 marshall.
57 into shadow hills gamma 8
ev re-15 into neve 1272

vocals shure sm-7 into neve 1272 into dbx 160 into manley elop

all of this was setup in the same room. we baffled off the amps pretty heavily....but were LOUD and we got lots of bleed. vocals were setup opposite of the drums...a big part off the roominess of the drums is from the vocal mic. i had some mic stands with blankets around and behind the vocal mic. overheads were about 5 above the kit. most of the drum sound is from the low riibons in front of the kit on either side..mixed with the close kik and snare...and a fair amount of the room mics...oh, and pretty much because the drummer was a GREAT drummer...and hit HARD !!

i speant a day a few weeks later actually mixing all of the songs...i could NOT beat the sound i had on the rough protools tracking mix for this particular song......THIS ruff mix went on the record....it was printed out 2 ch of the protools rig through 2 channels of the ssl 4056 desk...with a bit of ssl quad bus compression...right back to 2 ch of protools and then bounced to disk with some L1 on the print.

all the best,

jchristopherhughes
Attached Files

01 Always be trckn ruff.mp3 (4.12 MB, 6071 views)

Old 10th December 2007
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
So there I was, with a ****load'a mics set up, and no assistant () to tear it down for me.
First of all, god damn that is an ill tune!

Second of all... do you want an assistant? hehhehheh
Old 10th December 2007
  #18
Nice job Mixman,
How do you like the gamma? Did tou try attenuating the guitar amp? where did you record this at?

Ok I will thow one more in from the same project. Same basic setup except the drummer was different, Jimi Bott, man that guy can play a shuffle. Old school all the way.

I had trouble when I first listened to the rough mix, the main difference was the drum setup. Jimi has an old school minimalistic setup with the cymbals down real close to the drums where the other drummer had his toms on angles and cymbals up high. I wasnt getting the same seperation on the cymbals, but I ended getting a cool sound.

Some changes: The les paul went through a dr Z amp instead of the vibrolux and the rack tom had a 421 on it. Added sm57 on bottom snare

Vocals are live in room with no processing in the mix. I added a room mic in case we wanted to redo the vocal. Most of the room sound is through the vocal mic on the rough mix.

One sour guitar note needs fixing but other than that it is pretty finished.

setup below live in one room:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Croaker View Post
Mixed through toft ATB24.


Right guitar: gibson les paul through 65 fender vibrolux-->sm57-->germanium-->distressor (no pedals)

Left Guitar: Fender telecaster straight into attenuated kendricks wild cat amp(25watt tube 6v6). sm57-->ADL600

Bass DI through Voxbox
Scratch Vocal: SM7b --> ADL600-->Buzz SOC1.1

Premier Signia maple kit with Aquarian studio X heads on toms, Superkick 1 on bass, Evans G1 and Hazy 300 on snare.

KICK Beta 52-->api3124-->manley pultec
HIGH TOMS Studio projects B1-->API 3124
FLOOR TOM B1-->toft on board pre
SNARE Senn 421 --API 3124-->distressor
OH 2 Neumman KM184-->pacifica--Manley mu(very light)
HI HAT at4041-->toft onboard pre
I am digging hearing the different rough mixes and especially like hearing what the approach to the music was (playing and recording).

aloha


EDIT; same track with some tweaks and fixes (new vocal, re-amp DI bass and a few very small guitar edits)
Attached Files

12 Track 12.mp3 (5.35 MB, 3869 views)

So many reasons_rough.mp3 (5.34 MB, 3124 views)


Last edited by Croaker; 31st January 2008 at 09:14 AM.. Reason: added new mix
Old 10th December 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
chymer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastyzk2 View Post
First of all, god damn that is an ill tune!

Second of all... do you want an assistant? hehhehheh
My guess, he is the assistant
the beds sound great BTW.
Chymer
Old 10th December 2007
  #20
First off, cool-sounding stuff, guys! I'm liking this stuff.heh

Diggin' the bleed of the drums...I gotta similarly recorded project, only we overdubbed vocals and lead guitars. But the band cut the tracks with no headphones and no isolation; I'll see if I can't dig up the roughs from that one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastyzk2 View Post
Second of all... do you want an assistant? hehhehheh
Actually, yes. PM me, or email me at [email protected].

Lemme know if you're in NY or MA, and what town you live in. Thanks!thumbsup

OK. So I found those rough mixes...I don't have the set up sheets anymore (unprofessional...doh!), but I remember most of what I did.

This band has been in touch with me for a couple years about making a record, but they always somehow end up going elsewhere. I always felt I could get their attitude across better than any other guys in town, because I really love the band and see them play live regularly (MONSTER live band!!). Since their first few records sounded a bit too "studio", I figured I'd try recording them live, no punch-ins, overdubs (except solos and vox), no doubling parts, nuthin'. This turned out to be probably the funnest record I've ever made; they did the whole basics session in one take (ONE ****ING TAKE!!). Super cool stuff. Anyway, onto the good stuff:

The band consists of one drummer, one bass player, two guitarists, and a singer. They like AC/DC. A LOT. They actually have a really great side-project where they cover Bon Scott-era AC/DC tunes and they NAIL em. Anyway, the left-ear guitar player plays a Gibson Firebird through an 800 half stack, the right-ear guitarist was using a Strat and some kinda Gibson...either a Paul or an SG; I forget. On this tune he plays into a fuzz pedal, fed through a gorgeous hotrodded Plexi head (JTM 45, I think...) set into a 2x12 combo by a local boutique amp place. The bassist plays through an Ampeg 8x10, with what I think was a re-issue SVT. I don't remember the drummer's kit, but I've played gigs on it when my band has played with these dudes and it plays/sounds amazing. Especially the kick drum.

We set the band up in a circle, all facing each other like they do at rehearsal, and set up an X-Y mic to capture the stereo image exactly as I wanted to mix it. We didn't use any baffles between the amps (dig the snare rattle!!), because no one had any cans on. I basically had them balance themselves in the room, and off we went.

They played through a song and I got some EQ going on the board, then as soon as they were done we left everything set up the same way, and ran through the guitar solo (he got it on the first take). No punch-ins allowed (which didn't matter, cuz he got it on the first friggin' take!!). Then we did vocals. The mp3 here is not technically basics cuz it's got the vocals and solos on it, but it is unmixed.

Here's what I remember of the set up:

Kick In: that AT mic that has the dynamic and condenser diaphragms in it - ?pre? - Distressor
Snare Top A: 57 - 312
Snare Top B: 451 - 312
Snare Bottom: 414
...all through a Distressor
Rack: TLM 170 - 1272
Floor: TLM 170 - 1272
Hats: KM184 - M5
Overheads: 451s - 1084s with LOTSA low filtering and lotsa top added - Manley VariMu

XY Room: Manley Gold - custom pre our tech built

Bass Amp A: ???
Bass Amp B: ???

Compressed via dbx 160VU and EQed via Wunder Audio PEQ1

Guitar Left A: 57 - 2110
Guitar Left B: 421 - Shadow Hills GAMA

Guitar Right A: 57 - 2110
Guitar Right B: R122 - Shadow Hills GAMA

Vocals Close: BLUE Bottle B-7 - ??pre?? - LA2A - 1176
Vocal Room A and B: the 451s used on the OHs, in the same positioning with the same signal path

There's some Space Echo tape slap on the vox, and some gating on the toms and snare drum. The amount of bleed was surprisingly minimal; I can't wait to find another band that I think can pull of recording this way. Oh yeah, this rough mix has an L2 on it for dither but I don't think it's actually doing any limiting.

Last but not least: the left-ear guitarist recently left the band, so they're looking for a replacement. If you know/are someone interested, PM me.

Keep the good stuff coming, y'all!
Attached Files

Doo Doo Doo Rough.mp3 (5.15 MB, 4074 views)


Last edited by bgrotto; 10th December 2007 at 10:20 PM.. Reason: found the rough mixes...sweet
Old 10th December 2007
  #21
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BradM's Avatar
I love the concept of this thread. Being able to hear the raw, unprocessed tracks right off the hard drive or tape deck is very insightful especially for those of us that make music in our own little microcosms. I thought it was cool being able to hear unmastered mixes, but being able to hear the rough mixes like this is a real treat. So thank you all for sharing. I’d love to contribute, however I haven’t tracked anything recently where a whole band played live together. Lately it’s been a lot of just drums and bass. What’s acceptable as a minimum? If I’m feeling brave enough I might post something that would fall under the category of “dumb mistakes” and talk about the lessons I learned. I’ll have to get the band’s permission though. I also have some things I could share that could be good discussion points…like how the sound of drums changes immensely when the bassists switches instruments with the drummer.

Croaker—your rough mixes put my many of my final mixes to shame! Excellent work! Are you using a lot of EQ and compression to tape when you record or did you use EQ and compression for the rough mix? I’d love to see some pics of your room.

Thanks,
Brad
Old 10th December 2007
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croaker View Post
Ok I will thow one more in from the same project. Same basic setup except the drummer was different, Jimi Bott, man that guy can play a shuffle. Old school all the way.
Man, I'll say! That groove is killer!
Old 11th December 2007
  #23
OK, here's another one, recorded by a pretty heavy-duty pro.

This is my band again (it's not shameless self-promotion, I swear! It's just a lot easier to get permission from myself to post this stuff!!). This is a song off our first full length, which we recorded October 2006 at Andrew Schneider's Translator Audio in Brooklyn, NY. Andrew's the man behind some of my favorite-sounding records, plus he's a Boston native, so it was a blast/honor working with him. This is the rough mix he sent us home with before he went and mixed the record.

I'll try my best to remember what was used where, but it's a bit hazy.

My drum kit's a Yamaha Oak Custom, 16x22 kick, 16x16 floor, 11x13 rack, and a 6.5x14 DW Maple Snare. I was using all Zildjian cymbals: a cheap 18" Scimitar China, a pair of 14" A hats, 16" A Custom Crash, 18" K Crash, and 20" A Custom Ping Ride.

Bass was a G&L Geddy Lee through an SVT.

Guitars I'm a bit hazy on...one was a Gibson Explorer into a Soldano Avenger, the other a Firebird into a JCM 800. I don't remember what cabs we used, nor what we used for leads and solos.

I don't know any of the pres, but I remember most of the mics. Andrew generally doesn't cut tracks with any compression, except the bass guitar, so I don't think there's much in the way there. All the EQing was done on his Harrison desk in the monitor path, as was the compression on the kick and snare (which was done via Distressors). Drums and bass were cut to 2", then dumped to PT at 96k, where it was edited and overdubs were added.

Kick: ATM25 and NS10
Snare: 57 on top, 414 on bottom
Rack: 57 on top, ATM25 on bottom
Floor: 57 on top, old AKG LDC on bottom
Hats: ??
OHs: some SDC made by Calrec
Rooms: Audix CSX25s, TLM103s, and something else I don't remember...maybe a BLUE Baby Bottle?

Bass DI: ???
Bass Amp A: D112
Bass Amp B: ATM25

Guitars: 57 and 414

Vox: SM7 through lotsa compression, including C2 and 1176, with some room mics up in there, too.

Good stuff, eh? Andrew's pretty amazing to watch. It's like, he does all the same stuff everyone else does, uses the same gear, etc, but his stuff just sounds way better.

You guys should hear the final mixes, they're HUGE (only $10 for the disc! ).
Attached Files

01 Dead By Dawn.mp3 (3.86 MB, 3749 views)

Old 11th December 2007
  #24
heh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
I love the concept of this thread. Being able to hear the raw, unprocessed tracks right off the hard drive or tape deck is very insightful especially for those of us that make music in our own little microcosms. I thought it was cool being able to hear unmastered mixes, but being able to hear the rough mixes like this is a real treat. So thank you all for sharing. I’d love to contribute, however I haven’t tracked anything recently where a whole band played live together. Lately it’s been a lot of just drums and bass. What’s acceptable as a minimum? If I’m feeling brave enough I might post something that would fall under the category of “dumb mistakes” and talk about the lessons I learned. I’ll have to get the band’s permission though. I also have some things I could share that could be good discussion points…like how the sound of drums changes immensely when the bassists switches instruments with the drummer.

Croaker—your rough mixes put my many of my final mixes to shame! Excellent work! Are you using a lot of EQ and compression to tape when you record or did you use EQ and compression for the rough mix? I’d love to see some pics of your room.

Thanks,
Brad
I dont know about my mixes putting your to shame, but i did stay at a holiday Inn last night..rofl.

First of all thanks for the kind words Brad. I think you should post any stuff that could be good discussion points. I dont think there is any acceptable minimum..heh.
This is a cool thread and I like discussing techique and listening to examples, better than the usual "this pre soundsXXXXX and that compressor soundsYYYYYY..." etc etc.

Since this was a live in one room thing and the drum/room sound is a huge part of the overall sound, for EQ I rolloff lows a bit on OH drum mics on tracking(with the avalon). I add a little shimmer to cymbals on the top end too. Now that I have the toft ATB I have the luxury of having good eq all the time so I find I dont have to use eq as much when tracking, where before i had to plan my eq out a little better.
The second track I posted was a little tougher to get sounding good in the rough so I did a bit of eq on kick and bass so they fit together better(so I would say that mix is a little bit more than a rough although it is the first time I mixed it). When all the songs are tracked in one session with the same setup I might add to mixes as I do each seperate rough, so the sixth one will be more polished than the first one and the last one will probaly be pretty close to the final.

I also find that since the bass is DI we can get a lot more sound in the room (from guitars) before it gets out of control. Everything else is recorded pretty flat. Right guitar has distressor 4 -1 ratio(during tracking). left guitar is already pretty compressed sounding due to it being a small tweed amp cranked up with no effects. We use small amps or attenuate if they are too loud.
I also use very light compression on the drum overheads during tracking.

I record the live drums a lot in the same room with the players so I kind of know certain things that work and am not afraid to put a little eq and compression during tracking. The rough mixes are so much easier to set up that way and I am free to use the compressors in other places( I only have so many to go aroundheh). I usually listen to the rough mixes for a few days to a week or so in my car and other places before I do the final mixes. When it all goes right, I find I dont have to do a lot more to the roughs mixes to get the finals...thats kinda how my workflow has developed over time.

I will try to get some pics of my room. Gotta clean it up first


aloha
Old 11th December 2007
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Good stuff, eh? Andrew's pretty amazing to watch. It's like, he does all the same stuff everyone else does, uses the same gear, etc, but his stuff just sounds way better.

You guys should hear the final mixes, they're HUGE (only $10 for the disc! ).
Ya, pretty clean sounding for all in one room. It proves it not about the gear, but how its used. Do you guys use drum gobos to attenuate the sound in the room? How far way are the amps from the drums?

aloha
Old 11th December 2007
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croaker View Post
Ya, pretty clean sounding for all in one room. It proves it not about the gear, but how its used. Do you guys use drum gobos to attenuate the sound in the room? How far way are the amps from the drums?

aloha
I think you may have confused the Andrew Schneider post with my post before that. The Schneider stuff was not all in the same room. Drums were in his main room, and the bass and each of the guitars were in iso booths.

The clip I posted before the Schneider one is the one we did live in one room with no headphones.

Sorry if I created some confusion!
Old 11th December 2007
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I think you may have confused the Andrew Schneider post with my post before that. The Schneider stuff was not all in the same room. Drums were in his main room, and the bass and each of the guitars were in iso booths.

The clip I posted before the Schneider one is the one we did live in one room with no headphones.

Sorry if I created some confusion!
ahhh ...my bad.
Still sounds really good though. Dam that must be nice to have all those roomshehe.

aloha
Old 11th December 2007
  #28
F*cking brilliant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I had what I thought was a pretty good idea the other day. Why not start a thread of postings that include a rough mix (no cheating!) of basics tracks of songs or clips of songs, with detailed descriptions of set ups, techniques, and any sort of amusing "war stories" that may influence the character of the sound.

[...]

Remember, this is all in the spirit of fun and learning; I wanna hear your best chops, your biggest/dumbest mistakes, and any interesting esoteric gear you've got. My next post will kick off the thread.
Awesome! This is very much something I hope catches on with the new studio business I plan to launch in 2009. While the facility will certainly cater to high-end folks that want to lock it out and keep all the mixes and masters to themselves (until they release commercially), I'm also hoping that there are artists, engineers, and co-producers who are as interested in really developing not just an understanding of equipment and techniques, but creating works that are interesting and rewarding to others who try their hands at mixing and production. I detail that somewhat here the PROGRAMS section of the Manifold Recording website.

One particular technical challenge I have to address is the best way to tag all the data so that equipment chains can be easily annotated in the recording process and can be easily searched in a large (100TB) online archive. One idea is to use RFID to tag basically every piece of gear that can move (plus those that cannot) and then scan the chain from source to console and then attach each signal chain's scan data to the respective track.

Given that several of you seem to be quite keen on playing in this type of sandbox, I'd be most interested in following your thoughts on what's needed, what's nice, and what's blue-sky in this regard.

Also, if any of you have any experience with Creative Commons-style licensing and/or licensing stems alongside mixes, I'd love to know what legal frameworks you've used (and/or rejected). The number of different licenses possible--mechanical, syncronization, publishing, sampling, etc., are staggering.
Old 11th December 2007
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
Awesome! This is very much something I hope catches on with the new studio business I plan to launch in 2009. While the facility will certainly cater to high-end folks that want to lock it out and keep all the mixes and masters to themselves (until they release commercially), I'm also hoping that there are artists, engineers, and co-producers who are as interested in really developing not just an understanding of equipment and techniques, but creating works that are interesting and rewarding to others who try their hands at mixing and production. I detail that somewhat here the PROGRAMS section of the Manifold Recording website.

One particular technical challenge I have to address is the best way to tag all the data so that equipment chains can be easily annotated in the recording process and can be easily searched in a large (100TB) online archive. One idea is to use RFID to tag basically every piece of gear that can move (plus those that cannot) and then scan the chain from source to console and then attach each signal chain's scan data to the respective track.

Given that several of you seem to be quite keen on playing in this type of sandbox, I'd be most interested in following your thoughts on what's needed, what's nice, and what's blue-sky in this regard.

Also, if any of you have any experience with Creative Commons-style licensing and/or licensing stems alongside mixes, I'd love to know what legal frameworks you've used (and/or rejected). The number of different licenses possible--mechanical, syncronization, publishing, sampling, etc., are staggering.
Very cool stuff you're onto! I can't help you much on the legal side of things, but I can speak from a personal, professional, and artistic stand point.

I'm happy to share my recorded works in any phase of their completion; particularly with the recording community. Especially if my own enthusiasm is reciprocated. Most of my clients couldn't care less about what I do here on GS, and I suspect would be equally enthusiastic. Of course, there are those with either a combination of illusions of grandeur and a poor understanding of how copyright law works that believe their hit single is gonna get ripped off, and those with legitimate legal concerns surroudning their labels, publishers, etc. They, of course, would never find that I've posted their material here. But in general, I find the recording arts community to be willing to share.

As for notating signal chains, I can tell you now: that will be a HUGE pain in the ass. So few engineers even create setup sheets, let alone recall sheets (I'm as guilty of this as anyone, despite my best attempts to the contrary). I bet you'll have a hard time finding engineers that under the clock, without an assistant, and under-funded to come with the time to justify (either to themselves or their clients) taking meticulous notes on every setting of every piece of gear in a rapidly changing set up.

But if you figure out way, hey, more power to ya! I wish you the best of luck; I love what you're trying to do!
Old 11th December 2007
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Hi guys,

First time poster, long time lurker here! I'm a freelance producer/arranger and engineer from Finland!

So far, I've been loving this thread! Props to all the great raw sounds everyone has posted here, sounds absolutely killer!! I have waited for a thread like this for a long time :-)

I'm gonna post a raw mix of a song I did about six months ago with an indie artist (= Jo Angel) here from Finland. She wanted to do a sort of promotional CD (she already had loads of label interest, she's been signed to many major and indie labels before in other projects). She wrote the melody and lyrics, I arranged, produced and recorded the rest. In the recording session I also had an engineer-friend of mine working with me (I hate doing large sessions on my own if on a tight schedule, hoho).

We did four songs in 3 days. First, piano/wurlizer and bass were played together, overdubbing drums the next day and all of the guitar stuff in the third day. Vocals were cut in a smaller studio the following week.
The players were from the singers band.

So here goes:

Piano:
Yamaha CF Grand piano, spaced pair of 414's (6 inch from the hammers,
7 inches up, spaced pretty wide)

Wurlizer:
Nord Electro thru a 1990's Vox AC-30 miced with a Beyer M-160 close up and center of the cone

Both were tracked thru the desk preamps (Trident Series 80A) into PT


Bass:

Fender P-bass, split to
1) Boss DI -> desk preamp -> PT
2) Ampeg B-15R + SVT Classic head, miced with a Sennheiser 441 (an inch from the grille, off-axis, approx 25% to the right of the center, height middle of the cab) -> desk preamp -> PT

Drums:
(cant remember the exacty brands,models,sizes etc, think it was mainly mapex, yamaha or pearls heh. Hey its been awhile - but they rocked! new heads were used.)

Kick in -> Shure Beta-52 -> API 3124
Kick out -> Neumann U-47fet -> desk
Subkick -> desk
Sn top -> Beyer M-201 -> API 3124
Sn dn -> AKG C-451 -> desk
Hh -> DPA 4006 -> desk
Rtom, Ftom -> Sennheiser 421's -> API 3124
Oh's -> spaced pair of 414's -> Neve Portico 5012
Kit mics-> Thomann Ribbons TB-500 (about 1 foot from the kit, spaced in the outer edges of the kit, chest height, facing the floor) -> Art Dual Tube preamp
Room mics-> Neumann U-87 in ORTF (15-20 feet from the kit, neck level, right to the kit (drummer perspective), pointing at the snare) -> some Avalon preamp

Drums were cut to tape (otari mtr 90 mk2 2") then into PT.

Guitars:

Larrivee 6-string steelgtr (cant remember the model), some cheapo acoustic tuned à la Nashville and a mandolin ->
AKG C-451 on the bridge/soundhole and some large diaphgram (U-87 or 414 I think) on the 12th fret/neck meets body -place. Both were a bit further away then usual (for me at least), about 1-1.5 feet away.
Neve Portico as preamp -> PT

Elec Gtr (the picked "bubbleguitar" in the 2nd verse) -> 1990's Vox AC-30, miced with a SM57 1 inch away from the grill, center of the cone -> Neve Portico preamp -> PT

Vocals:

HandCraftedLabs Faust-microphone into Neve Portico preamp into PT.
(same used for doubles, bgvox etc)

Percussion (tambourine, shaker, claps):

Rode NT-2 in ORTF, 2 feet away -> Neve Portico -> PT

Other notes:
-Basic Digidesign converters were used in all of the recordings
-Tape was only used on drums
-Everything except vocals&percussion were done in a really cool Finnish studio called Soundtrack (Soundtrack Recording Studios) and the rest in Studio Init (STUDIO INIT). I had some of my own gear in both studios.
-A kickdrum-tunnel was made out of two Marshall 4x12's in the outer edges of the kick (frontside facing outwards of course:D) and a matress bended between them, forming a tunnel. Looked pretty cool!

I think we used some light compression on the bass di with a dbx 160 and maybe some pumping to the room mics with Urei LA4's. Other then that, it was compression-free and on some sources just a teeny-weeny amount of the desk EQ's.

The mix is basically just a faders-up type of mix (with panned instruments though). There are some plugins though (hipass on the drum/keyboard/guitar buss, lo-mid shelf cut on the doubles/harmonies, a bit of L2 on the 2bus aswell as a graphic EQ cutting/boostin 0.5db here and there). The only thing that was compressed ITB was the vocals (2 compressors and one limiter), because they were pretty much all over the place (dynamic-wise. Other than that, its raw!!

Rock!!

P.S. Everything was cut to PT 7 HD in 44.1 / 24bit.

P.P.S This version is also without edits/programming etc that might have occured after these raw sessions ;-)


Janne
Attached Files

SongAboutYou-Ruff.mp3 (4.97 MB, 4556 views)


Last edited by Janne; 11th December 2007 at 04:09 PM.. Reason: forgot name !
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