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My jazz group - bass isn't sitting right?
Old 24th July 2019
  #31
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Fractal Axe Fx III.
I play with a guy who plays 6-string and pedal Steel and he gets great sounds from his Fractal.
Old 24th July 2019
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Yeah I liked the drums.
Also want to add: listening to jazz while driving around in the car, you NEVER can hear the bass solos, just sayin.
True. There’s a well respected jazz DJ friend who warned me not to EVER put a bass solo on a record if you want air play. He just puts it in the dust bin. Because you can’t hear it.
Old 24th July 2019
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamberth View Post
Nice playing. Bass didn’t sound distinct to me. How did it sound in the room?
Maybe cutting freq to help it firm up?
Maybe listening to Hendrix’s first album - They had a way of making the bass come through on cheap am radios of the day, which weren’t exactly “full range” speakers.
Jimi’s first album wasn’t jazz, even though it had done Mitch Mitchell Love or Confusion jazz drumming. And Redding played electric bass.

The bass being indistinct is kind of the nature of this beast. It’s going to come in and out a little.

BTW I cut a LOT. I’m not sure which version you heard. Probably the latest one.
Old 24th July 2019
  #34
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Have you tried anything like the MAAT RSPhaseShifter? I've been testing it for the past few weeks on live recordings, and you can definitely change the way an instrument sits in the mix if you have a lot of open mics in the same room. On upright, you can hear the phase shift between the bottom of the instrument and the mid-range / strings, if that makes sense. Originally I tried the UAD IBP, but it just didn't work for me like the analog one does. The RSPHaseShifter seems to function differently and gives me more tonal / space options, but I haven't used it enough to purchase quite yet. I'm surprised there's not more info about it around here.
Old 24th July 2019
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
True. There’s a well respected jazz DJ friend who warned me not to EVER put a bass solo on a record if you want air play. He just puts it in the dust bin. Because you can’t hear it.
Ha! I just listen to the silence!
Old 24th July 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Yeah I liked the drums.
Also want to add: listening to jazz while driving around in the car, you NEVER can hear the bass solos, just sayin.
Agreed. The question is, do you want to follow in that [time tested] aesthetic. No right or wrong, just what you feel works for the song.
Old 24th July 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamberth View Post
Agreed. The question is, do you want to follow in that [time tested] aesthetic. No right or wrong, just what you feel works for the song.
exactly. I’m not interested in the time tested way necessarily. If it works, great. The ears have it. But I don’t hear Jimi’s First album as a good reference for me on this. But could be.
Old 24th July 2019
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamberth View Post
Agreed. The question is, do you want to follow in that [time tested] aesthetic. No right or wrong, just what you feel works for the song.
Well, I’ve heard some stuff by Christian McBride that cuts pretty well. Haven’t studied it so not sure how he does it. But you’re right the time tested aesthetic leaves one hanging. I’ve never recorded an upright, I think it would be quite a challenge.
Old 24th July 2019
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Well, I’ve heard some stuff by Christian McBride that cuts pretty well. Haven’t studied it so not sure how he does it. But you’re right the time tested aesthetic leaves one hanging. I’ve never recorded an upright, I think it would be quite a challenge.
its my biggest challenge. The room is pretty isolated and well treated. So it’s not that. The instrument is just challenging.

McBride is a beast.

Last edited by henryrobinett; 24th July 2019 at 04:06 AM..
Old 24th July 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
its my biggest challenge. The room is pretty isolated abd well treated. So it’s not that. The instrument is just challenging.

McBride is a beast.
Do you take a DI, or mic an amp (if the player uses one)?
Old 24th July 2019
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Do you take a DI, or mic an amp (if the player uses one)?
no DI and no amp. Just mic.
Old 31st July 2019
  #42
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Here’s a new recording. Sprung. We recorded it today. Almost zero EQ on anything. Moved the bass back. Maybe 15”. I think it sounds much better.

https://soundcloud.com/henry-robinett/sprung-1
Old 31st July 2019
  #43
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Bass is sitting much better. Another nice tune Henry. You’re doing some amazing stuff on guitar but it’s getting smeared by the chorus detune reverb wash effect. I would love to hear what you’re doing toward the end when you’re playing double time.
Old 31st July 2019
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Bass is sitting much better. Another nice tune Henry. You’re doing some amazing stuff on guitar but it’s getting smeared by the chorus detune reverb wash effect. I would love to hear what you’re doing toward the end when you’re playing double time.
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words! But re my guitar sound, I hear you but that's my sound man. I love the chorus and the reverb. I'm less concerned with hearing every single articulation. I've moved far away from the 50s and 60s jazz guitar timbre. I think of it like those sax players who rip and just kind of smear the notes.
Old 31st July 2019
  #45
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Sounds really cool. That bass especially is sounding good.
Old 31st July 2019
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Sounds really cool. That bass especially is sounding good.
thank you! It was proximity effect before. This time I applied zero eq or compression. That’s just what it is.
Old 31st July 2019
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words! But re my guitar sound, I hear you but that's my sound man. I love the chorus and the reverb. I'm less concerned with hearing every single articulation. I've moved far away from the 50s and 60s jazz guitar timbre. I think of it like those sax players who rip and just kind of smear the notes.
I hear what you’re saying. I have a great chorus pedal and I love to thicken things up while tracking. In the heat of the moment, in the room, everything sounds great. Upon listening back I often discover that I overdid the effects. Of course that’s not your problem, you love your tone. I can accept that. I’m not suggesting a vintage jazz tone, however. Anyway, great work and thanks for posting these tunes. By the way, If you ever come out to the coast to cool off PM me. Fort Bragg fog can be a beautiful thing.
Old 31st July 2019
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
I hear what you’re saying. I have a great chorus pedal and I love to thicken things up while tracking. In the heat of the moment, in the room, everything sounds great. Upon listening back I often discover that I overdid the effects. Of course that’s not your problem, you love your tone. I can accept that. I’m not suggesting a vintage jazz tone, however. Anyway, great work and thanks for posting these tunes. By the way, If you ever come out to the coast to cool off PM me. Fort Bragg fog can be a beautiful thing.
I love Fort Bragg - Mendocino - Point Arena!
Old 31st July 2019
  #49
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Much better Henry! Nailed it! With a hint of EQ all the definition would just pop out.


The drums sound particularly good in this natural state. Thumbsup!
Old 1st August 2019
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Much better Henry! Nailed it! With a hint of EQ all the definition would just pop out.


The drums sound particularly good in this natural state. Thumbsup!
awesome! Thank you!
Old 1st August 2019
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Much better Henry! Nailed it! With a hint of EQ all the definition would just pop out.


The drums sound particularly good in this natural state. Thumbsup!
Agree. I was thinking a bump around 8-900 hz might bring out some of the wood. Love the drummer’s work as well.
Old 1st August 2019
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I love Fort Bragg - Mendocino - Point Arena!
Not a lot of venues for live music around here but Fort Bragg actually has a jazz scene. I don’t get out much anymore but the Tap Room, part of North Coast Brewery, hosts live jazz weekly. Keep posting your music, I’m enjoying it.
Old 1st August 2019
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Not a lot of venues for live music around here but Fort Bragg actually has a jazz scene. I don’t get out much anymore but the Tap Room, part of North Coast Brewery, hosts live jazz weekly. Keep posting your music, I’m enjoying it.
I had a drummer friend give me a card for The North Coast Brewery there. I have yet to call. I'm a terrible businessman. I'll get on it. I'm just getting to the place where I feel my band is ready to go out for more gigs.

Thanks!
Old 1st August 2019
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I had a drummer friend give me a card for The North Coast Brewery there. I have yet to call. I'm a terrible businessman. I'll get on it. I'm just getting to the place where I feel my band is ready to go out for more gigs.

Thanks!
It might be worth checking into. Not just a local scene. They’re attracting outside artists for weekend gigs year round. I guess now I have to get my lazy self down there and report back. Ha
Old 7th October 2019
  #55
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The best thing is, this feeling rarely ever goes away. Once you master one thing and feel like you can do it in your sleep, there will always be other techniques that will require that same amount of focus. Playing the guitar is like a drug to me. Did you see how many different ones there are on bestelectricguitars.reviews/best-pedalboards it's quite mad. Even though it might seem pretty simple, just focusing on something to that extent is a skill that takes an effort to develop.
Old 1 week ago
  #56
Gear Maniac
Great Playing with you and band as well.
How did you track band? Were drum and bass in iso booth?
Wondering how you got that tight piano sound!
Old 1 week ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimoyjk View Post
Great Playing with you and band as well.
How did you track band? Were drum and bass in iso booth?
Wondering how you got that tight piano sound!
Thank you. Zombie thread! I appreciate that. Which track are you referring to? The original one I posted or the second one Sprung? I think all this info is in the thread. Everyone has their room except for the pianist who is DI'ed and playing in the main room with the drums. I might have midi'ed it later with Ivory II. I don't remember. Now I use Pianoteq. But it might have been direct form the Yamaha MX88.

So yes, the bass was in an iso room converted kitchen. Functions as both! There's a big window that looks to the other rooms, mainly the drummer and CR. He can't really see the pianist.

Thanks for asking.
Old 1 week ago
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Thank you. Zombie thread! I appreciate that. Which track are you referring to? The original one I posted or the second one Sprung? I think all this info is in the thread. Everyone has their room except for the pianist who is DI'ed and playing in the main room with the drums. I might have midi'ed it later with Ivory II. I don't remember. Now I use Pianoteq. But it might have been direct form the Yamaha MX88.

So yes, the bass was in an iso room converted kitchen. Functions as both! There's a big window that looks to the other rooms, mainly the drummer and CR. He can't really see the pianist.

Thanks for asking.
I think it (sprung) sounds really good, I like the raw vibe.

Henry, what was your panning scheme for "Sprung"?
Old 1 week ago
  #59
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I like the tracks in this thread and hope to hear more!

The original topic was jazz bass sounds, so just riffing on that. I've listened really carefully to jazz recordings of all eras...my favorite engineers are Rudy Van Gelder on Impulse, Rudy Van Gelder on CTI (totally different sound!), Jan Eric Kongshaug on ECM.

In all genres, bass sounds need midrange, so they can speak on all types of playback systems (including the high percentage that don't reproduce bass frequencies well). The bass's fundamental frequencies are important, but it's actually the overtones that let us hear what pitch is being played.

In the 60s and earlier, jazz bass was often recorded with ribbon mics, on the floor back a few feet, angled 45 degrees upward, maybe with a low gobo to block the rear pole of the figure-8. This produces a very mid-focused sound. Also, maybe bassists were used to playing louder in the days before amplification. So what you hear on jazz recordings of that era are clear, driving, mid-rangey bass sounds.

In the late 60s and 70s, the trend in all types of recording was for closer, dryer, tighter sounds. It became common to record jazz bass with a mic mounted on the body of the bass. Sometimes the results were simply awful (many releases on the Steeplechase label have that awful weird too-close, too-EQed bass sound). Many engineers got this technique wrong, it's pretty clear that the 70s was the Golden Age of bad upright bass sounds. But the mounted-mic can be done well: Rudy Van Gelder got this technique totally right in the 70s. On tracks like ...the bass is clear and controlled, but not unnatural. You wouldn't mistake it for an electric bass.

I've been trying to resurrect the 70s mounted-mic technique. (I spotted the technique being used in a Wes Montgomery film clip from 1965.) Recently I've tried a Line Audio OM1 omni small-diaphragm condenser mounted in between the legs of the bass bridge, using rubber bands. The omni mic has no proximity effect, so getting too close is not an issue. It doesn't matter if the bassist is rocking to and fro or up and down, mic position stays consistent. I EQ a bit of 300Hz out and sometimes some low-shelf cut, compress, then add a bit of 700-800 Hz. It's gotten me close to the RVG 70s sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I think it (sprung) sounds really good, I like the raw vibe.

Henry, what was your panning scheme for "Sprung"?
LOL! I have no idea. This was a long time ago. If I recall correctly - piano is probably a little left. Maybe 10:00. Bass might be slightly off center. 1:00 isn't unusual for me. Guitar is stereo but up the center hard panned. Drums pretty standard I think.

Thanks!
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