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Is this 'Club'?
Old 18th January 2007
  #1
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Is this 'Club'?

A college buddy of mine is in a rap group. He's been asking if I want to collaborate and I'd love to. Only problem is they seem to love to do the 'club banger' thing. Most of their beats (not sure where they get 'em) are pretty whack, but they have that club feel.

So I totally stepped out of my element here, this is far from what I 'usually' do.

The mix is still really rough, I've been workin' with headphones on for the most part cuz its late and I live in an apartment.

Comments on the mix? Comments on the feel of the song? Is this some 'club' ****? If not, then I suppose I'll throw in the towl, I struggle with this club stuff.
Attached Files

Illa 1_17 GS Shorty Mix.mp3 (1.42 MB, 128 views)

Old 18th January 2007
  #2
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Well... I think the beat is definitely not of club caliber. I think that is the main thing hindering this track.

Beyond that, I'd say that the clap/snare is sort of thin, maybe a little more 300-400. The strings also seem sort of panned to the right, perhaps if they were wider and more centered in the stereo image they would help fill things out better.

But like I said, I think that the sounds used in this particular track are lacking the crucial sound needed to make a track really pop. I guess I would sort of relate this to, "you can't polish a turd". The samples and instruments used in a track more determine the outcome more than anything.
Old 18th January 2007
  #3
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Thanks for listenin', I'll switch some things up and see if I can fatten the track a little
Old 18th January 2007
  #4
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I think the performance has potential, but agree with the above post about the source sounds. It's really weak and flat sounding. If you could get some better source sounds to make it pop a little more, and less "cheap drum machine box" sounding, you'd be alright I think.

That and a good mix
Old 18th January 2007
  #5
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beats like this depend on a good vocal hook.
yeah- the sounds could use help, but the patterns are there.
maybe try layering a few sounds on the main melody hit. I like the little sine line though.
strings is strings. if they're thin, mix 'em low.

try adding a different snare hit on top of beat two or four (or both).
try an adiitional kick on the 1 every couple of bars.

layers layers layers. give 'em somehting to dissect.
Old 18th January 2007
  #6
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The track seems slow and boring; it’s also let down by the really weak percussion, but could be changed by adding a better clap snare and kick.
The percussion is the most important element of hip hop and it must bang, while the melody is playing it needs something in the background to bring it to the string part.
You’re waiting a long time before it gets to the strings; the tune isn’t too bad but just needs some things adding to make it into a great track.
Old 18th January 2007
  #7
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Well the slow part could be fixed with a great vocal track. There is a lot of room for a killer vocalist to assault this track..
Old 19th January 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5 View Post
Well the slow part could be fixed with a great vocal track. There is a lot of room for a killer vocalist to assault this track..
thanks to everyone for the thoughts. after listening today, with some fresh ears, I totally agree that I pretty much need to rehaul the drum sounds all together. That shouldn't be too tough of a project, it's all Reason, just need to find some better samples.

As far as the track being a little 'too slow' or 'too sparse' I'm right there with djui's opinion. I want to leave room for vocals.

The mix needs a ton of work, but like I said it was primarily done with headphones due to it being late at night.

Thanks again everyone.

I'll get back to work and post an update sooner or later
Old 19th January 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiemaster View Post
... while the melody is playing it needs something in the background to bring it to the string part.
You’re waiting a long time before it gets to the strings; the tune isn’t too bad but just needs some things adding to make it into a great track.
I'm wondering about some subtle delay on the strings....

I'll try to fill things out a bit but like I said, vocals will really change the whole feel of it up.
Old 19th January 2007
  #10
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Its club. The mix could be better but the standards for this club stuff seem to be pretty low. Kick could use some balls though, maybe add verb to the clap a little.
But youre not gona have real succes by making a track thats been made many times before, as you said, its not really your thing, so I would leave it to the people who love to make this stuf. If they dont make a hit, at least they had a fun making the track.

Do something you like with a club in mind, the club you wanna hang out that is.

Like Quincy said, " If it gives you goosebumps, its bound to give someone else goose bumps"

Good luck
Old 19th January 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyKnuckles View Post
Its club. The mix could be better but the standards for this club stuff seem to be pretty low. Kick could use some balls though, maybe add verb to the clap a little.
But youre not gona have real succes by making a track thats been made many times before, as you said, its not really your thing, so I would leave it to the people who love to make this stuf. If they dont make a hit, at least they had a fun making the track.

Do something you like with a club in mind, the club you wanna hang out that is.

Like Quincy said, " If it gives you goosebumps, its bound to give someone else goose bumps"

Good luck
I totally see what you're saying.

At the same time though, I do gain some benefit from 'forcing' myself to do different styles. It'd be nice to have people come to me and say I want something in 'this' style and for me to able to deliver

Mainly just wanted to see if I could. It needs work, but hey, it's a start...


Thanks for listening
Old 19th January 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrif08 View Post
I totally see what you're saying.

At the same time though, I do gain some benefit from 'forcing' myself to do different styles. It'd be nice to have people come to me and say I want something in 'this' style and for me to able to deliver

Mainly just wanted to see if I could. It needs work, but hey, it's a start...


Thanks for listening
I see where you're coming from, but as for myself... I have tried to develop a sound that people come to me for. It's a lot easier on my mind at least... haha.

As far as replacing the sounds goes, don't use stock ones from Reason. You'd be much better off using some sounds from packs, or IDK if you make beats but maybe your own collection would be better off.

I myself have been collecting samples long enough that I would hands down use any of them over stock samples from Reason.

Just my 2 cents though.
Old 19th January 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki View Post
I see where you're coming from, but as for myself... I have tried to develop a sound that people come to me for. It's a lot easier on my mind at least... haha.

You'd be much better off using some sounds from packs, or IDK if you make beats but maybe your own collection would be better off.
.
Totally. I have my 'own' sound and style (still, and will always be, a work in progress). Sometimes it's fun to hear a certain style, then sit down and try to mimic it.

Can you be more specific about 'sounds from packs, or IDK' ---> suggestions? what's IDK? I googled it, nothin...
Old 19th January 2007
  #14
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Haha!

IDK means I don't know... sorry bout the confusion.

As far sounds from packs... I don't really know if there's a definitive answer to what sounds will make the track happen. I just know that there are good sounds and bad sounds.

For the most part, I've just collected sounds from the internet, samples I've gotten from other producers, and sounds I've bought off of eBay or other websites. I'm really more into samples ripped off vinyl and not so much really clean samples like Tritons or other keyboards have.

I hope that at least some of that made sense... I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't... haha. It's so hard to get ideas across on the web sometimes.
Old 19th January 2007
  #15
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Cool, IDKT

(I just made that up, it means I Didn't Know That, ya think it'll stick?)
Old 19th January 2007
  #16
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If you make it stick!

Copyright them ****z yo.
Old 19th January 2007
  #17
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For real though, ya got a couple of nice kicks you could send my way?

I've been searchin' the net and can't find **** for decent 808 sounds. I really want that nice attack the 808 has...
Old 19th January 2007
  #18
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whether or not it is club...it makes great background music for browsing (i gotz it on loop in my itunes...uh..yo...on my Mizac!)

Honestly, it is out of my league because I know little to nothing about the genre, but my first statement is honest!
Old 19th January 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
whether or not it is club...it makes great background music for browsing (i gotz it on loop in my itunes...uh..yo...on my Mizac!)

Honestly, it is out of my league because I know little to nothing about the genre, but my first statement is honest!
uh... yo.... check it... on my mizac .... it's the shiznat...

Thanks for the kind words man, much appreciated
Old 19th January 2007
  #20
F-2
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Kicks

Reason stock is generaly pretty thin, but the 808 samps in the Redrum kits and samples refill is not too bad.
If you wanna fatten them up, for example the kick, try layering.
Load the same sample on two channels of your redrum, route them to different mixer channels, get rid of all the sub from the first one(maybe up to 1000 hz or so), and compress it a little with a late attack to get that sweet punch, eq it between 2 and 6 khz, then eq or filter down to the sub in the second.

You need proper headphones, or decent monitors to hear what the hell youre doing though.
Sub is a tricky bastard, and there's a fine line between the sweetest sub, and people just getting sick.
Old 19th January 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyKnuckles View Post
Reason stock is generaly pretty thin, but the 808 samps in the Redrum kits and samples refill is not too bad.
If you wanna fatten them up, for example the kick, try layering.
Load the same sample on two channels of your redrum, route them to different mixer channels, get rid of all the sub from the first one(maybe up to 1000 hz or so), and compress it a little with a late attack to get that sweet punch, eq it between 2 and 6 khz, then eq or filter down to the sub in the second.

You need proper headphones, or decent monitors to hear what the hell youre doing though.
Sub is a tricky bastard, and there's a fine line between the sweetest sub, and people just getting sick.
I'll give that a shot, thanks
Old 19th January 2007
  #22
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I should clarify something about the kick in this track as well.

The 'dry' kick in the first eight bars or so is simply Reason stock samples.

When the boom drops its actually just a dual oscilator sine wave from subtractor that I bounced to an audio file in Logic. Then I threw a gate on that track and I'm using the dry kick to trigger it.

Get pretty good results with this method usually. But I REALLY need something that mimics that dry punchy 808 attack...
Old 19th January 2007
  #23
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Attached Files

Kick Drum 65-05.wav (49.7 KB, 57 views)

BOOM07.WAV (95.2 KB, 79 views)

Old 19th January 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5 View Post
You sir, are the man results to come
Old 19th January 2007
  #25
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The big thing for me is making everything be in the same fundamental key. If you're gonna try to make song sound powerful, there's nothing more distracting than dissonance in the bass. Like, say your kick is tuned to F#, but the bassline is dancing around in a C major progression, well that's probably just not gonna work out since F3 doesn't fit in the key anywhere, let alone is it the tonic.

I always make my 808/kick the tonic of the beat to avoid any problems.

I'll go ahead and make about 2 octaves of tuned 808's for ya... with both long and short decay's and I'll post them sometime this afternoon.

Matt
Old 19th January 2007
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew.sawicki View Post
The big thing for me is making everything be in the same fundamental key. If you're gonna try to make song sound powerful, there's nothing more distracting than dissonance in the bass. Like, say your kick is tuned to F#, but the bassline is dancing around in a C major progression, well that's probably just not gonna work out since F3 doesn't fit in the key anywhere, let alone is it the tonic.

I always make my 808/kick the tonic of the beat to avoid any problems.

I'll go ahead and make about 2 octaves of tuned 808's for ya... with both long and short decay's and I'll post them sometime this afternoon.

Matt
Wow, that'd be awesome man.

The boom in this song is in key though, or at least it should be according to how I did it (see one of my above posts)

The boom in this song actually goes with the progression (which is Am to Dm). I really dig the idea of changing the tone of the kick to go along with the progression, almost like using it in place of a bass line
Old 19th January 2007
  #27
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Exactly, I much prefer the sound of the kick/808 to be the bass line, as far as really sub stuff goes.

I'm making the samples right now...
Old 19th January 2007
  #28
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an update:

Still needs a lot of work. I'm really in need of some better monitors and some sound treatment for my mixing environment. The low end on my setup is incredibly difficult to dial in.

anywho- I spread the strings out as someone suggested. I re did the kick entirely, its much better now, not perfect, but MUCH better.

Added some verb to the clap(s) but that still needs tweeking I reckon'

Left it sparse. As discussed before, I want plenty of room for vocals.

Thoughts, suggestions?
Attached Files

For Illa' 1:19 mp3.mp3 (2.33 MB, 120 views)

Old 19th January 2007
  #29
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Here's those files...

http://www.suburbanprostudios.com/808_Kicks_wav.zip

Lemme know whatcha think.
Old 20th January 2007
  #30
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Kill some of the top end on the HH and clap, then turn up the HH a few db. Also your kick needs to lay back some, it's too "jumpy" if that makes sense. Also bring down the strings a touch, they're kinda loud. This should help blend everything a little bit more...
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