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Video cameras to timecode with Sound Devices MixPre II 10 for classical music videos
Old 19th April 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Video cameras to timecode with Sound Devices MixPre II 10 for classical music videos

Hi there,

which quality video cams can you recommend for classical music videos? FullHD at 60 fps minimal, but 4K would be nicer. Need to keep them (at least 2 pcs) in sync with a Sound Devices MixPre 10 ii. Whole setup should be able to run on bats for 3 hours min. Small form factor would be a huge plus.

Best regards and many thanks in advance for your recommendations!

Last edited by cupakm; 19th April 2020 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: added more specs
Old 22nd April 2020
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Timecode alone will not keep a camera in sync. Timecode only prints frame numbers on a file, there’s no relation to a camera’s internal synchronisation.

For short takes, you can sort of rely on a camera keeping the same speed as other devices like an audiorecorder or second camera.
For long recordings like the one you describe, you’d need a camera that can accept and lock to 'genlock' - plus a master clock that can derive sync from external timecode (generated by the audiorecorder in your case).

There’s a whole range of broadcast camera’s that can sync to Genlock, typically using a BNC port. Portable masterclock devices with genlock output are made by Denecke or Ambient. 'New' (and cheaper) kid on the block is the Ultra Sync One from Timecode systems. Pro audio houses like Gotham Sound the U.S rent out these devices.

Search results of 'Genlockable' camcorders on BHphotovideo:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...%3Agenlockable

A comparison of various syncboxes available:
https://www.gothamsound.com/time-cod...mparison-chart

A YT video that explains the difference between Genlock and Timecode I posted earlier:

Old 23rd April 2020
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupakm View Post
Hi there,

which quality video cams can you recommend for classical music videos? FullHD at 60 fps minimal, but 4K would be nicer. Need to keep them (at least 2 pcs) in sync with a Sound Devices MixPre 10 ii. Whole setup should be able to run on bats for 3 hours min. Small form factor would be a huge plus.

Best regards and many thanks in advance for your recommendations!
You can use one of a myriad of DSLRs (from Canon, Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic) that have HDMI output which outputs timecode and sync. MixPre will read the timecode AND genlock to the HDMI stream thus zero drift recording over long takes. Just connect to the MixPre-s Cam TC In port.
Old 23rd April 2020
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljisaacs View Post
MixPre will read the timecode AND genlock to the HDMI stream thus zero drift recording over long takes. Just connect to the MixPre-s Cam TC In port.
Sounds very good, thanks!

Two more questions:
- how do I connect multiple cams? Didn't know they can daisy-chain...?
- what HDMI cable do I need?
Old 23rd April 2020
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupakm View Post
Sound very good, thanks!

Two more questions:
- how do I connect multiple cams? Didn't know they can daisy-chain...?
- what HDMI cable do I need?
The setup I describe is for one camera and one MixPre.
You'd have to find cameras that can be genlocked together for the multi-cam scenario: master cam genlocks slave cams & master cam feeds HDMI to MixPre.
MixPre has mini HDMI connector. Details on soundddevices.com

thx
Old 24th April 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
I am currently using Nikon Z cameras doing 4K. I love them - very much - for their color science and lenses [1]; but go for whatever you like with respect to imaging capabilities.

Focusing on the timecode part of your question, I'm using an Ambient timecode slate, multiple Ambient NanoLockits, an Ambient ACN-CL [which does both time code and Gen Sync / Word Clock], and a couple Tentacle Sync E timecode generators. You likely don't need all of this.

You will need at least one good time code generator for each camera. The Ambient NanoLockit would be my first suggestion as they are very convenient and high-quality. If you need to save money, I've no complaints about the Tentacle Sync E - and Tentacle Sync Studio is very nice software for stitching the audio from your MixPre onto the video footage from the cameras.

I don't expect you need Gen Sync / Word Clock - unless you are recording to multiple audio interfaces or trying for stereo vision [not just multiple cameras]

You can record for hours and hours and hours [maybe days] without any perceptible slippage just using the timecode in your MixPre jammed against the timecode devices you are running into the audio of your cameras.


No Problemo,

Ray H.

[1] Stipulation: The Nikkor Z lenses don't yet have repeatable manual control linked to manual focus ring movement. . .which is a major hassle for manually pulling focus. Nikon claims they are working on an update to the firmware in this series to facilitate that use case. Otherwise, I think their new lenses are absolutely amazing.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #7
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljisaacs View Post
The setup I describe is for one camera and one MixPre.
You'd have to find cameras that can be genlocked together for the multi-cam scenario: master cam genlocks slave cams & master cam feeds HDMI to MixPre.
MixPre has mini HDMI connector. Details on soundddevices.com

thx
I'm looking for HDMI cable, that can connect my MixPre 10 II and Sony RX10 III camera. But I can't find any cables with Mini-HDMI (or is it Micro) in both ends, only adapters

Can anyone help?

::
Mads
Old 2nd June 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
I'm looking for HDMI cable, that can connect my MixPre 10 II and Sony RX10 III camera. But I can't find any cables with Mini-HDMI (or is it Micro) in both ends, only adapters
Check out the accessories from SmallHD, for example https://smallhd.com/products/focus-hdmi-micro-r-angl
Old 2nd June 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
Check out the accessories from SmallHD, for example https://smallhd.com/products/focus-hdmi-micro-r-angl
Thanks - should have mentioned I'm in Europe - still now I know it exists

::
Mads
Old 2nd June 2020
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Thanks - should have mentioned I'm in Europe - still now I know it exists
Okay, but I'm not in the US either and have ordered things from SmallHD; they do ship internationally. If a cable like this isn't available from the usual sources you could try them as a last resort. Shipping would probably cost more than the cable, though.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #11
Gear Addict
 

I use a low cost timecode setup consisting of a Tentacle Sync E on each of my cameras as well as my audio recorder. Works like a champ! Sure is easier than my old timecode slate setup I had years ago.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
Okay, but I'm not in the US either and have ordered things from SmallHD; they do ship internationally. If a cable like this isn't available from the usual sources you could try them as a last resort. Shipping would probably cost more than the cable, though.
I don't have the time to wait ::-# but thanks anyway

::
Mads
Old 22nd June 2020
  #13
We are using the 4K Canon XA-40 cameras with great success. No real drift if we record the audio on our Sound Devices MixPre 3 V1 at 48 kHZ as well as running our camera audio at 48 kHZ. Adobe Premier works well to sync the audio and the camera audio. FWIW.

Best of luck!
Old 22nd June 2020
  #14
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
We are using the 4K Canon XA-40 cameras with great success. No real drift if we record the audio on our Sound Devices MixPre 3 V1 at 48 kHZ as well as running our camera audio at 48 kHZ. Adobe Premier works well to sync the audio and the camera audio. FWIW.

Best of luck!
I wonder if it's possible to record 24/96 sound for video on a Mixpre 10 II and sync using hdmi cable from camera.

Has anyone tried this?

::
Mads
Old 22nd July 2020
  #15
If you want dirt cheap 1080 cameras with Genlock then get a few secondhand Sony PMW-F3 cameras.

Then you want to put one Timecode Systems UltraSync ONE on each camera.
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