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How do I replace a band member? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 29th July 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
HAHAHAH!

Well, the guitarist is supposed to be playing with the drummer, but that didn't happen. If I would have taken the guitar out, you would have not noticed any timing issues.

It's the drummer that makes the tempo. NOT the other way around.

I guess I like ****ty drummers then? No problem. I'll take it.

But he's not playing on his own. I hear the bass and guitar in time with each other (for the most part). It's the drummer who isn't listening. Cardinal sin.
Old 29th July 2014
  #62
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I would not go as far as creegstor and call it bad but I do agree that this is imo not a suitable performance for the song. The timing is good tho but he massively overplays. This can become a big problem because younger musicians sometimes got a hard time to look beyond their single part to see the big picture.

Good drummers tend to restraint their performances which is not as easy to do as it sounds. Listen to Jamiroquai or this song by Scofield. These drummer's use very few but extremely tasteful embellishments but a lot of not so noticeable tiny details. Obviously you are not playing at this pro level but I think you get the point.
Just my opinion.

Old 29th July 2014
  #63
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spindlebox's Avatar
I will let you debate this foolishness yourselves. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's run its' course. Thanks everyone, adios.
Old 29th July 2014
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
I will let you debate this foolishness yourselves. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's run its' course. Thanks everyone, adios.
Sorry, but I said this is my personal opinion and 'imo' as often as I could and you asked for opinions. I think you are overreacting but I wish you good luck with your descision anyway. Seriously.
Old 29th July 2014
  #65
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Uncle Bob's Avatar
 

Well, maybe you'll dip back into the thread...

It's called the music BUSINESS. It's nothing personal, it's just business. You approach him one professional to another, tell him about the negative impact he's having on the band and give him the option of getting his act together or his leaving (or being fired from) the group. You MUST separate your personal life from your professional life.
Old 29th July 2014
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
I will let you debate this foolishness yourselves. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's run its' course. Thanks everyone, adios.
You posted the thing as an example to show the guy's playing. If you didn't want to hear an (and even if I do say so myself) informed response then you shouldn't have posted it. He has some chops but his timing is very very poor. Of course I'm only judging from the one song. Maybe he wasn't well or had bad food. But you posted it as being representative. If it is representative then he's just not good. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but it's painfully off timing-wise. It's beyond my comprehension that you can't hear it.

Anyway, best of luck with whatever you do.
Old 29th July 2014
  #67
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
You posted the thing as an example to show the guy's playing. If you didn't want to hear an (and even if I do say so myself) informed response then you shouldn't have posted it. He has some chops but his timing is very very poor. Of course I'm only judging from the one song. Maybe he wasn't well or had bad food. But you posted it as being representative. If it is representative then he's just not good. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but it's painfully off timing-wise. It's beyond my comprehension that you can't hear it.

Anyway, best of luck with whatever you do.
I hate to chime in negatively, but I have to agree with Creegstor. The drummer is all over the place.

Just from the recording, I can hear -

:9 - Rushing in his fill
:15 - Dragging his fill
:21 - Just out of time
:32 - Again, out of time
:43 - :46 is just out. Gtr is doing 8ths with accents, drummer is playing fills on triplets with a completely different accent. It's like two different songs.
:50 - 1:00 - Everyone is out of time with each other, but the drummer is the most out of time.

He mostly loses his time on fills.


I can understand that sometimes it's easy to get excited to hear someone come in and do crazy stuff, but chops with no control causes more problems than it solves.

I'd love to hear a recording, or the same recording with the old drummer. At this point I'm wondering if this kid is a step up from the old drummer or if you're just being blinded by the overplaying. It's possible the old drummer might be playing more restrained or more tasteful and appropriate, even. But I would like to hear the recording.

I'm not here to piss on your parade, seriously. I wonder if you just got a little dazzled by his energy and chops and haven't really listened to his playing. It's like when someone on this website gets a new EQ and comes on singing its praises and then posts a sample and everything is over-EQd to the point that it's almost unlistenable but they can't hear it because they're so in awe of their new toy. It's like the honeymoon period has to end before you realize.

Good luck with whatever direction you go in.

Regards,
Frank
Old 29th July 2014
  #68
Listened and agree he's playing way too much with those constant drum acrobatics. If your old drummer doesn't do that, I'd say keep him.
Old 29th July 2014
  #69
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
Well, we just recorded 3 songs with the old drummer, on a click today. From a technical standpoint, he did OK. The first song was really rough. I just kept thinking about what the new drummer could do.

But what my plan is, I'm going to send the prospective drummer these songs after the rest of the band finishes our overdubs - and I'm going to see what he comes up with. He's also going to get the original demos so he can hear what I "had in mind" for the drums - and then he can interpret from there.

This will allow for me to gauge his creativity, work ethic and seriousness.

I'm then going to have him come in and record his drums on a copied version of the project.

I think I should be able to make up my mind at that point without any hesitation - either one way or the other.
This is a good plan, and will soon reveal his ability to create a part that complements everybody. Better than the posted jam with comparatively lacklustre bass and lead, which probably invited him to overplay a bit.

I wouldn't give him the original demo with drums so he can hear what you "had in mind" for the drums though. He should devise his own part just like the first drummer had to.

Come back Spindlebox!!! You started a great thread, and we are inspired by your enthusiasm for improvement.
Old 29th July 2014
  #70
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim Phoney View Post
This is a good plan, and will soon reveal his ability to create a part that complements everybody. Better than the posted jam with comparatively lacklustre bass and lead, which probably invited him to overplay a bit.

I wouldn't give him the original demo with drums so he can hear what you "had in mind" for the drums though. He should devise his own part just like the first drummer had to.
That's pretty much what I heard. Give him a real song and band to work with, and I think he could be interesting.
Old 29th July 2014
  #71
Gear Head
 

I have fallen victim to this kind of drummer in the past. You get enamored by the chops and the busy playing, but after a while, the chops don't overcome the lack of time. And often, it doesn't sit well within existing song material.

That said, we all have no idea how bad spindlebox's current drummer is or what kind of music these guys play. The new guy may indeed be an upgrade, we just don't know. I think Spindle had a good plan… integrate the new guy into some of the current material, work with him on some side projects, then evaluate. The new guy is only 20 years old, and not a finished product. He can always mature and get better.
Old 29th July 2014
  #72
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iluvatar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
Audio Cave Recording Studio Songs | ReverbNation

Here is a sample of this drummer in action. It is hard to believe he is only 20.
Yeah, I'm with everybody else, the new guy is very inconsistent and way overplays.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
I'd love to hear a recording, or the same recording with the old drummer. At this point I'm wondering if this kid is a step up from the old drummer or if you're just being blinded by the overplaying. It's possible the old drummer might be playing more restrained or more tasteful and appropriate, even. But I would like to hear the recording.
Well, Reverbnation says that the OP's other group is <not what I thought it was>. (edited by poster)
Old 30th July 2014
  #73
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just buy a tr-8 and forget human drummers altogether. no hastle , little maintenance, perfect time
Old 30th July 2014
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvatar View Post
Yeah, I'm with everybody else, the new guy is very inconsistent and way overplays.
I don't know how much these drums have been edited, but at least what's available on the recording is much tighter than the new guy's demo. The fills aren't overplayed either.
Yeah, after hearing the file the new guy sounds like an overplayer to me.
Old 30th July 2014
  #75
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spindlebox's Avatar
For the record, my other band is NOT Alice Sweet Alice - that is just a band I have recorded/produced, and I would appreciate it if you would remove that from this thread out of respect and privacy for the other band. One of the band members works with me sometimes helping out for a discount on studio time.

Also, somebody might get devilish and contact that other band and start something.
Old 30th July 2014
  #76
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iluvatar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
For the record, my other band is NOT Alice Sweet Alice - that is just a band I have recorded/produced, and I would appreciate it if you would remove that from this thread out of respect and privacy for the other band. One of the band members works with me sometimes helping out for a discount on studio time.

Also, somebody might get devilish and contact that other band and start something.
Fair enough. Link removed.

The new guy still has problems.
Old 30th July 2014
  #77
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Quote:
As far as clothears statement and speculation about it perhaps being MY job to make it big - if any ONE person is responsible for a group's success than that person should probably have the power to do what he or she likes.
I don't think clothears was saying that it was your job to make it big, but that your drummer might have looked at things that way.

Quote:
A cover band and an original band are different. IMO the most important overall aspect to an originals band is writing great songs. Therefore:

Factor___________________% of importance to success
Great original songs_________99.99 %
Musicianship of Drummer_____00.01 %

A cover band conversely is primarily dependent on showmanship and musicianship.
Even if you're exaggerating by a tremendous amount, I think you're still way off. With an original band there's no doubt that the songs are important, and if you have to assign percentages then sure, that will take away from the percentage you'd assign to the drummer…and all other musicians…by definition. But you'd have to assign some percentage to song selection with the cover band. Nobody's going to listen to a bunch of songs that they don't like, and if it's an original band they won't either…but either way, if the drummer (or anyone else) sucks that will hurt. If anything I'd say that the drummer may be even more important than anyone else other than the singer, although that depends on the degree on the style of music, and what degree of suckage we're talking about.

Quote:
My experience is exactly the opposite, a drummer has never been a part of songwriting, but good luck to you.
You might want to try playing with a few different drummers, then.

Quote:
This conversation however has transitioned to the hypothesis of the OP original band necessitating a talented drummer in order to write great original songs.
I don't think that's what anyone's really thinking…but if you're a band, the talent of the drummer certainly will certainly affect your ability to perform those songs. Unless you're the White Stripes, nobody's going to care how good your songs are if they're distracted by a drummer who can't play.

Quote:
I will let you debate this foolishness yourselves. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's run its' course.
You know, if you're really looking for good advice, and you're hearing from enough people that the drummer you're so enthralled with has timing issues, then you might want to take what they're saying into consideration.

I can't hear the performance since you've pulled it, but it reminds me of that cartoon where they show a drummer wailing away on a huge kit with his arms flying everywhere and the guys behind the table going "wow, you're a great drummer!", and then the second panel is a guy sitting behind a small kit playing a simple beat and the guys behind the table going "wow, you're hired!"...
Old 1st August 2014
  #78
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Benprogfuse's Avatar
You can do what my band members did to me when I was in high school.. You can tell the drummer that the band has broken up, then re-form the band a day later without him...
Old 2nd August 2014
  #79
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
I am in a big quandry here people, and I hope you give me a chance and not call me a jerk right out of the gate.

I have been playing with a drummer since 2009, and we have done some really great things in my band together. The problem is, he has become increasingly distracted over the past year (checking phone between songs at rehearsal for instance), and has never really gotten involved with band business - even given assignments over the years, which always fall by the wayside.

From a performance standpoint, I would give him a B-. He used to rehearse at home with a metronome, but over the past 5 years, I have really not seen him improve or evolve with the rest of us. I also took a vacation 2 weeks ago and was listening to a couple previous albums of ours, and just lamented some of the slightly off time performances on the albums. He has never been 100% solid.

This is what happened to me last weekend.

I met somebody else. LOL. I own a recording studio, and this young band came in with this drummer that was simply incredible. Think TAYLOR HAWKINS / DAVE GROHL here. Yes, he really was that good. At the end of their session, he wanted to record some drum tracks, and brought in some MP3's to play along with. In a couple cases, I had to set up a metronome for him. This guy NAILED each take, almost perfectly, hardly EVER deviating from the click. He was doing incredible 16'ths at times with tom fills, and kick pedal hits (using ONE pedal by the way). Just blew my mind.

Then he told me this band was breaking up, and he was interested in working with me. He listened to my band, and was REALLY interested in working with me.

SO....that's where I am.

This guy would make my band 200% better. We're writing and just going to be starting to record new material. Rehearsing last night, and listening to my current drummer - was SUCH a let down. He has been playing 30 years, and this kid that came in is only 20. He blows my drummer away so bad, it isn't even funny.

What should I do?!
Well, just remember...

In two weeks this new wonder drummer you just met could suddenly spin his head around 360 degrees and start levitating off his bed...you really know him from Adam.

That said...

You cannot get anywhere as the leader of a band without being straight with the other members. And if you ARE the leader of the group, then you have to act like one, and tell your drummer you've decided to go in a new direction with the group.

Sucks, but it really IS that simple. You always do what's best for yourself and the group.

Hey don't feel bad, I had ads out for a drummer many years back, and we were a well known band around St Louis at the time. One guy showed up and played several songs with us, then several more, at a practice, and we were all nodding our heads and smiling and finally stopped playing to start discussing details. Our manager came down and began going through things with him, and we were very relieved after weeks of auditions.

Then his buddy, who had been sitting quietly watching the whole thing, stood up and said "Hey do you mind if I jammed with you guys on something? I mean, anything is fine...." and while his buddy continued upstairs with our manager, we just said, "Yeah...well, sure, fine."

He got on the drums and it was like Keith Moon had dropped by. Our jaws dropped.
Our manager came down and said "Hey guys, everything looks good ...." and as you can imagine we had a major situation on our hands.

I asked the "friend" drummer if he was looking for a band, and he said "Well, yeah..." and said that he was sure his buddy would be upset but that was life...if we wanted him, he would love it.

So we hired him instead.

I hated disappointing the first guy. But I never regretted hiring Mike instead, not for one minute. He made our band so much better it was ridiculous.

TH
Old 2nd August 2014
  #80
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Hxd Ped's Avatar
Getting rid of a band member sucks. I've done it twice and it sucked each time.

We got rid of the first guy (guitar player) for several reasons. Basically, he just wasn't up to snuff and wasn't improving. He also was of the philosophy that better gear made him play better. (It didn't.) We decided to ax him, but had a show coming up soon so we decided to let him go after the show.

After that show, he got in a nearly fatal car accident on the way home. He spent a week in a coma and another few weeks in the hospital after he woke up. A month after he got out of the hospital, he was finally feeling good enough to start rehearsing again. We still let him go. THAT conversation sucked. We felt very bad about it, but we got over it and found someone better.

You gotta do what you gotta do.
Old 2nd August 2014
  #81
With another one.
Old 5th August 2014
  #82
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jDroid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
I think I read the normal actions of a drummer. Mine is texting while we are playing a song...........
Seems about right from a person that's all about TONE
Old 5th August 2014
  #83
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Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlebox View Post
I just need to get my head and heart in alignment.
Yes. All of us, as well. Isn't everything in the arts about that balance?

Your bandmate is lucky that you care so much.

Just do it. Move on and make music. Don't get bogged down in drama.
Old 6th August 2014
  #84
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hxd Ped View Post
Getting rid of a band member sucks. I've done it twice and it sucked each time.

We got rid of the first guy (guitar player) for several reasons. Basically, he just wasn't up to snuff and wasn't improving. He also was of the philosophy that better gear made him play better. (It didn't.) We decided to ax him, but had a show coming up soon so we decided to let him go after the show.

After that show, he got in a nearly fatal car accident on the way home. He spent a week in a coma and another few weeks in the hospital after he woke up. A month after he got out of the hospital, he was finally feeling good enough to start rehearsing again. We still let him go. THAT conversation sucked. We felt very bad about it, but we got over it and found someone better.

You gotta do what you gotta do.
hey! That would make a great intro for a horror/suspense movie. "Killer Guitar". heh
Old 6th August 2014
  #85
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterViewer View Post
hey! That would make a great intro for a horror/suspense movie. "Killer Guitar". heh
My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama.
Old 7th August 2014
  #86
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JayTee4303's Avatar
There comes a time when you have to stop asking questions and just help throw the bodies in the river.

Seriously, are you done with the old drummer, yes or no?

If not, what would it take to move forward with him?

Times everyone else who has a say in the matter.

Then you gotta tell him what the deal is.

Then you gotta make it stick, and hold everything else together thru the transition.

In that order.

I know you already know this.

I know why you are here, askin us, instead of doing what has to be done.

I respect that, and so should you. Poke around at it till you know. You'll know when that is.

(Noddin off is an alarm thing w me.)
Old 18th August 2014
  #87
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 

Nobody boots the drummer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJbrTgUL0Dk
Old 30th August 2014
  #88
Gear Head
 

How did it go Spindlebox?

Did the old drummer lift his game? Was the young drummer just too good to pass up? Do you have two drummers in the band now.....?
Old 30th August 2014
  #89
.

In my experience, the best way to replace a band member -
is to take the member in question outside quickly, while no one is looking!

...and then quickly bring in your new replacement member.

This usually works wonders!


Most of the time, nobody else in the band even notices!

(The audience DEFINITELY doesn't notice - unless you're U2, and even then they usually don't notice -
especially, if the new replacement member is dressed properly).


Best of luck.








.
Old 31st August 2014
  #90
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
The best way is to accidentally invite both to a gig. Then, when they're standing there, say "oh, well, if THIS isn't awkward!", and tell the old drummer it was his fault he assumed he was invited. When the he gets pissed off and leaves, shout that he's a self-absorbed jerk and you never want to see him again. Afterwards tell all your bandmates it was probably better this way, because you didn't want him to go on thinking he'd ever have a chance, and it was better for him to see it himself so he'd get the idea as quickly as possible. They will agree with you, because they're still in the band.
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