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Why so much hate on mainstream? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 9th March 2014
  #1
Why so much hate on mainstream?

I'm being completely honest right now, why does almost everybody on this forum absolutely HATE mainstream music? It seems like every time someone mentions a producer like deadmau5, Zedd, or Skrillex(especially) everybody just goes crazy. I can see why some of the top 40 gets hate but seriously, there are only one or two singers who honestly don't deserve to be that popular, the rest are just fine. So can someone explain why mainstream is hated so much?
Old 9th March 2014
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Mainstream = success. Such success can potentially create resentment in people who don't believe they can also succeed or don't know how/can't be bothered.
Old 9th March 2014
  #3
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

I love Michael Jackson, Prince, Led Zeppelin, Cream, as well as several other pop singers, producers and bands.

Don't care much about Skrillex or Deadmau5. I just don't think their music is very good. They could have sold 5 copies, and I still wouldn't like it. Nothing to do with them being popular, just personal taste.
Old 9th March 2014
  #4
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Billions and Billions Served.
Old 9th March 2014
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpureus View Post
Mainstream = success. Such success can potentially create resentment in people who don't believe they can also succeed or don't know how/can't be bothered.
I've never thought about it that way
Old 9th March 2014
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

In other words, it is either a matter or taste or the psycho-weirdness I mentioned.

I would never say I hate mainstream only because there are some artists in it whose music is not my cup of tea. There's plenty of awesome music in mainstream. And btw, which mainstream are we talking about?
Old 9th March 2014
  #7
Avicii is another person who also gets SO much hate, is it mostly because people think he has a ghost producer? Does he? Because I would lose all my respect for him if he does.
Old 9th March 2014
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

He wouldn't care, I guess
Old 9th March 2014
  #9
Gear Guru
Mainstream is pretty broad.. New Order is mainstream and i love them.

Top 40 is useless to anyone born after 83 with taste.
Don't worry ... You're in the majority.. Nothing to be scared about
Old 9th March 2014
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpureus View Post
And btw, which mainstream are we talking about?
I guess the top 100/ radio
Old 9th March 2014
  #11
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The highest rated producer on the electronic instrument forum is Stravinsky -- after that there is a three way tie between Wendy Carlos, Alan Wilder and Gary Numan. 25% own gear sold off by Skinny Puppy. 90% are more likely to forgive their cheating ex rather than Roland. It's a tough room...
Old 9th March 2014
  #12
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horseface's Avatar
Mainstream = Success.

Success = Popularity.

Popularity = Lots of people liking something.

Lots of people = Stupid. Or something.

Nothing wrong with just becoming popular by treading your own artistic path. Getting there and doing your thing is fine. Don't change what you're doing once people start paying attention. Don't try and please crowds. If you're working in a specific genre and trying hard to please the masses, you're a hack and not an artist. If you make music because you want people to like you, there's probably no hope for you. You're nothing but a dancing chimp. Electronic music is FULL of dancing chimps who want to be loved. It's a sad place.

Regarding other recent poppy chart music, I often listen to stuff from the last 10-15 years and wonder when the chorus is going to come in on a lot of it. Oh, that was the chorus? Why is it so bland? Things are getting formulaic and insipid and not wanting to offend in order to grab the largest audience, it seems.

Go look at the UK top 10 in, say, 1981 and see how varied, ballsy, hooky/memorable and astonishingly good a lot of stuff was back then.

(Shakin' Stevens, Bucks Fizz aside)

Can anybody honestly say there's any memorable music in the charts currently which is going to stand the test of time like some of this stuff?

01 Shakin' Stevens This Ole House
02 Adam & The Ants Stand And Deliver
03 The Specials Ghost Town
04 Soft Cell Tainted Love
05 Adam & The Ants Prince Charming
06 John Lennon Imagine
07 Bucks Fizz Making Your Mind Up
08 Ultravox Vienna
09 Michael Jackson One Day In Your Life
10 Dave Stewart With Barbara Gaskin It's My Party
11 Shakin' Stevens Green Door
12 The Tweets The Birdie Song (Birdie Dance)
13 Smokey Robinson Being With You
14 John Lennon Woman
15 Joe Dolce Music Theatre Shaddup You Face
16 Shakin' Stevens You Drive Me Crazy
17 Roxy Music Jealous Guy
18 Julio Iglesias Begin The Beguine (Volver A Empezar)
19 Adam & The Ants Antmusic
20 Starsound Stars On 45
21 The Human League Don't You Want Me
22 Kim Wilde Kids In America
23 Royal Philharmonic Orchestra Hooked On Classics
24 Aneka Japanese Boy
25 Ennio Morricone Chi Mai (Theme From 'Life And Times Of David Lloyd George')
26 Altered Images Happy Birthday
27 Bad Manners Can Can
28 Queen & David Bowie Under Pressure
29 Cliff Richard Daddy's Home
30 Ottawan Hands Up (Give Me Your Heart)
31 The Police Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic
32 Imagination Body Talk
33 Stevie Wonder Lately
34 Phil Collins In The Air Tonight
35 The Human League Love Action (I Believe In Love)
36 Starsound Stars On 45 (Volume 2)
37 Coast To Coast (Do) The Hucklebuck
38 Electric Light Orchestra Hold On Tight
39 Stevie Wonder Happy Birthday
40 Odyssey Going Back To My Roots
41 Adam & The Ants Kings Of The Wild Frontier
42 Kate Robbins & Beyond More Than In Love
43 The Jacksons Can You Feel It
44 Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark Souvenir
45 Rainbow I Surrender
46 Landscape Einstein A-Go-Go
47 Champaign How 'Bout Us
48 Toyah Four From Toyah (EP)
49 Spandau Ballet Chant No 1 (I Don't Need This Pressure On)
50 Earth Wind & Fire Let's Groove
51 Godley & Creme Under Your Thumb
52 John & Yoko & The Plastic Ono Band With The Harlem Community Choir Happy Christmas (War Is Over)
53 Sugar Minott Good Thing Going
54 Diana Ross Why Do Fools Fall In Love?
55 Alvin Stardust Pretend
56 Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark Joan Of Arc
57 Soft Cell Bedsitter
58 Duran Duran Girls On Film
59 Third World Dancing On The Floor (Hooked On Love)
60 The Four Tops When She Was My Girl
61 Madness Grey Day
62 The Nolans Attention to Me
63 Ten Pole Tudor Swords Of A Thousand Men
64 Cliff Richard Wired For Sound
65 The Police Invisible Sun
66 Haircut 100 Favourite Shirts (Boy Meets Girl)
67 Tight Fit Back To The Sixties
68 Kim Wilde Chequered Love
69 The Whispers It's A Love Thing
70 Madness The Return Of The Los Palmas Seven
71 Olivia Newton-John Physical
72 REO Speedwagon Keep On Loving You
73 Elaine Paige Memory
74 Squeeze Labelled With Love
75 Elvis Costello A Good Year For The Roses
76 Diana Ross & Lionel Richie Endless Love
77 Toyah Thunder In The Mountains
78 Toyah I Want To Be Free
79 Sheena Easton For Your Eyes Only
80 Graham Bonnet Night Games
81 Depeche Mode New Life
82 John Lennon (Just Like) Starting Over
83 Yarborough & Peoples Don't Stop The Music
84 The Teardrop Explodes Reward
85 Linx Intuition
86 The Human League Open Your Heart
87 Visage Fade To Grey
88 Rod Stewart Tonight I'm Yours (Don't Hurt Me)
89 Blondie Rapture
90 UB40 One In Ten
91 Lobo The Caribbean Disco Show
92 Abba One Of Us
93 Dire Straits Romeo And Juliet
94 Freeez Southern Freeez
95 Bob Marley & The Wailers No Woman No Cry
96 Specials featuring Rico With The Ice Rink String Sounds Do Nothing / Maggie's Farm
97 Laurie Anderson O Superman
98 Depeche Mode Just Can't Get Enough
99 Fred Wedlock The Oldest Swinger In Town
100 The Pointer Sisters Slow Hand

I mean, Laurie Anderson in the top 100, FFS. Even the poppiest of pop music used to have some balls. Is anything recent honestly remembered after a year or two now? Are we fickle? Is there some purposeful blandification and musical castration going on? What on earth happened? Are things now designed to grab money and be forgotten about so quickly? Why is it all moving so fast?

Old 9th March 2014
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Is anything recent honestly remembered after a year or two now?
Personally, I don't agree with you on this but it reminded me of how the kids at my school react when I listen to something that's more than 6 months old. I started listening to something the other day that was just over a year old and someone was like, "Bro that song is so old!"
Old 9th March 2014
  #14
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1da View Post
Personally, I don't agree with you on this but it reminded me of how the kids at my school react when I listen to something that's more than 6 months old. I started listening to something the other day that was just over a year old and someone was like, "Bro that song is so old!"
You don't agree with me, yet you give an example of how people are these days with their 'media consumption'...?

It appears that people are increasingly fickle. Things come out, people love it (Or they just think they love it, I honestly think a lot of people don't know what they actually like), buy it up, **** it out and want the next thing. This is happening across all media. Look at recent movies - How many are honestly destined to be classics? How many movies from 10 years ago are now considered classic movies?

Art & Culture are going down the toilet in a rocket ship. They've become things to consume and **** out and forget about instead of the interesting cultural events they once were.

Are people more fickle? Is the mystique of how these things are created gone? Are people jaded? Has everything just been done before? Are new production gimmicks being utilized in place of ideas and talent?

No sir, I don't like it.
Old 9th March 2014
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
You don't agree with me, yet you give an example of how people are these days with their 'media consumption'...?
I meant that I personally do remember the mainstream stuff after 1 or 2 years
Old 9th March 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Popularity seems to breed a generic edge to production, bleeding out originality; as it seems to be with the whole EDM thing.
If you read a comment that somebody makes against your favourite producer, just turn a blind-eye; it's not like anybody is taking your music collection away from you.

Music is subjective - doesn't have to be liked by everyone (or anyone, if my tracks are anything to go by...)
Old 9th March 2014
  #17
Gear Head
 

Mainstream is mainstream for a reason. People like it. They like it because there is something good there. Just like coke and chocolate and pizza are mainstream. They may not be the best you can get but there's no reason to hate on it.
Old 9th March 2014
  #18
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1da View Post
I meant that I personally do remember the mainstream stuff after 1 or 2 years
Maybe the bar is now set so low that something moderately bland 'hook' can be remembered by people these days? Maybe we have different tolerance levels? If I can't remember something after a listen or two, I write it off as '****e'. But hey, worked for John Lennon.

I grew up in a time where a lot of interesting things were happening, so there was a lot of variety in even top 10 music. We had the tail end of Punk, Ska revival, Plastic Mods, Tail end of Glam, Synthy stuff, Minimal Synth Pop, Poppy Synth Pop, Rock, Weird Adam Ant dual drumming whatever the heck it is he made... We had an interesting spread of things back then.

Maybe it's a UK thing? How does America 1981 look? What would it be? Rock? Country?


Position Artist Song Title
« 198019811982 »

1 Kim Carnes Bette Davis Eyes
2 Diana Ross and Lionel Richie Endless Love
3 Kenny Rogers Lady
4 John Lennon (Just Like) Starting Over
5 Rick Springfield Jessie's Girl
6 Kool and The Gang Celebration
7 Daryl Hall and John Oates Kiss On My List
8 Eddie Rabbitt I Love A Rainy Night
9 Dolly Parton 9 To 5
10 REO Speedwagon Keep On Loving You
11 Joey Scarbury Theme From "Greatest American Hero" (Believe It Or Not)
12 Sheena Easton Morning Train (Nine To Five)
13 Smokey Robinson Being With You
14 Juice Newton Queen Of Hearts
15 Blondie Rapture
16 Ray Parker Jr. and Raydio A Woman Needs Love
17 Blondie The Tide Is High
18 Grover Washington Jr. Just The Two Of Us
19 Pointer Sisters Slow Hand
20 Climax Blues Band I Love You
21 John Lennon Woman
22 A Taste Of Honey Sukiyaki
23 ABBA The Winner Takes It All
24 Stars On 45 Medley
25 Juice Newton Angel Of The Morning
26 Neil Diamond Love On The Rocks
27 Air Supply Every Woman In The World
28 Air Supply The One That You Love
29 Barbra Streisand and Barry Gibb Guilty
30 Styx The Best Of Times
31 Oak Ridge Boys Elvira
32 REO Speedwagon Take It On The Run
33 Ronnie Milsap No Gettin' Over Me
34 Gino Vannelli Living Outside Myself
35 Barbra Streisand Woman In Love
36 Manhattan Transfer Boy From New York City
37 Foreigner Urgent
38 Rod Stewart Passion
39 Commodores Lady (You Bring Me Up)
40 Don Mclean Crying
41 Marty Balin Hearts
42 Diana Ross It's My Turn
43 Daryl Hall and John Oates You Make My Dreams
44 Kenny Rogers I Don't Need You
45 Champaign How 'Bout Us
46 Pat Benatar Hit Me With Your Best Shot
47 Greg Kihn Band The Breakup Song
48 Alan Parsons Project Time
49 Bruce Springsteen Hungry Heart
50 Franke and The Knockouts Sweetheart
51 Terri Gibbs Someone's Knockin'
52 Leo Sayer More Than I Can Say
53 Tierra Together
54 Styx Too Much Time On My Hands
55 Dottie West What Are We Doin' In Love
56 Journey Who's Crying Now
57 Police De Do Do Do, De Da Da
58 Gary U.S. Bonds This Little Girl
59 Stevie Nicks With Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers Stop Draggin' My Heart Around
60 Delbert McClinton Giving It Up For Your Love
61 Cliff Richard A Little In Love
62 Neil Diamond America
63 John Cougar Ain't Even Done With The Night
64 Christopher Cross Arthur's Theme
65 Queen Another One Bites The Dust
66 Alan Parsons Project Games People Play
67 Eric Clapton I Can't Stand It
68 Steve Winwood While You See A Chance
69 Stevie Wonder Master Blaster
70 Neil Diamond Hello Again
71 Police Don't Stand So Close To Me
72 Steely Dan Hey Nineteen
73 Stevie Wonder I Ain't Gonna Stand For It
74 George Harrison All Those Years Ago
75 Eddie Rabbitt Step By Step
76 Billy Squier The Stroke
77 Alabama Feels So Right
78 Stanley Clarke and George Duke Sweet Baby
79 Dan Fogelberg Same Old Lang Syne
80 Pablo Cruise Cool Love
81 ELO Hold On Tight
82 John Schneider It's Now Or Never
83 Pat Benatar Treat Me Right
84 Santana Winning
85 Barbra Streisand and Barry Gibb What Kind Of Fool
86 John Lennon Watching The Wheels
87 Heart Tell It Like It Is
88 Ronnie Milsap Smoky Mountain Rain
89 Barry Manilow I Made It Through The Rain
90 Daryl Hall and John Oates You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'
91 Olivia Newton-John and Cliff Richard Suddenly
92 Sheena Easton For Your Eyes Only
93 Beach Boys The Beach Boys Medley
94 Devo Whip It
95 Sheena Easton Modern Girl
96 Gary Wright Really Wanna Know You
97 Rosanne Cash Seven Year Ache
98 Diana Ross I'm Coming Out
99 Boz Scaggs Miss Sun
100 Andy Gibb Time Is Time

Some similar stuff, but very, very different. A little more ballady and rocky. It would be called 'adult contemporary' today, I guess. But there's always Devo!

So, 30 years on and it's Rock, Country & Rap.

Hmmm. Maybe it's a cultural thing? I mean, America has taken a long time to embrace electronic music, hasn't it? It's lot more conservative here, that's for sure. Even your progressives are shockingly conservative. Despite House and Techno being invented here in the '80s, Electronic has only just started to become accepted some 30ish(!) years after it did in Europe. Interesting.

Old 9th March 2014
  #19
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hackdog View Post
Mainstream is mainstream for a reason. People like it. They like it because there is something good there. Just like coke and chocolate and pizza are mainstream. They may not be the best you can get but there's no reason to hate on it.
Let's continue the analogy.

Coke and Pizza are empty calories and both very bad for you. You can live off them (If you call that living), but you'll suffer poor health, become spotty and your skin will eventually slide off right before your third heart attack.

Mainstream music is empty and very bad for you. You can live off it (If you call that living), but you'll suffer poor judgement, become spotty and your skin will eventually slide off right before your third heart attack.
Old 9th March 2014
  #20
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sleepingbag's Avatar
the hate on this board is 100% sour grapes. there are a lot of people here making music that virtually (or literally) nobody cares to listen to. someone sees someone else obtaining success in a field that they themselves want to be successful in and they think 'this stuff is so basic compared to the cool stuff i do'.... but clearly the numbers don't bear out the idea that anyone cares about their music more than the popular music they're hating. and they don't understand why that is, so the only way they can justify this to themselves easily is by saying 'well their thing is stupid, i don't want to do that anyway'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Go look at the UK top 10 in, say, 1981 and see how varied, ballsy, hooky/memorable and astonishingly good a lot of stuff was back then.

(Shakin' Stevens, Bucks Fizz aside)

Can anybody honestly say there's any memorable music in the charts currently which is going to stand the test of time like some of this stuff?

01 Shakin' Stevens This Ole House
02 Adam & The Ants Stand And Deliver
03 The Specials Ghost Town.........
....
how much of the stuff on this list are you saying has stood the test of time? there are maybe 5 songs out of the 100 there that i've even heard of at all...

pop music isn't necessarily supposed to 'stand the test of time' as far as i'm concerned anyway, no idea why people always think this is an important test of music's quality. 'will people still listen to this music after i'm dead? will i still listen to this music when i'm older and my tastes and perspectives have changed?'... why should any of this be a part of whether i enjoy a song right now when i am listening to it????? it's ok for a song to be simply of the moment! you never know which songs will stick with people long after the fact. some of the songs on that brit list might be sticking with you more than they're sticking with the rest of us though...
Old 9th March 2014
  #21
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpureus View Post
Mainstream = success. Such success can potentially create resentment in people who don't believe they can also succeed or don't know how/can't be bothered.
Or.. people who like mainstream music and can't fathom it being criticized.. are fearful/spiteful when they realize they're the dumbest person in the room.
Old 9th March 2014
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Mainstream music is empty and very bad for you. You can live off it (If you call that living), but you'll suffer poor judgement, become spotty and your skin will eventually slide off right before your third heart attack.
Well now we're getting into unnecessary hate. Listen to Lorde's album that came out a couple months ago which is very, very popular right now. How can you call that empty?
Old 9th March 2014
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
the hate on this board is 100% sour grapes. there are a lot of people here making music that virtually (or literally) nobody cares to listen to. someone sees someone else obtaining success in a field that they themselves want to be successful in and they think 'this stuff is so basic compared to the cool stuff i do'.... but clearly the numbers don't bear out the idea that anyone cares about their music more than the popular music they're hating. and they don't understand why that is, so the only way they can justify this to themselves easily is by saying 'well their thing is stupid, i don't want to do that anyway'.



how much of the stuff on this list are you saying has stood the test of time? there are maybe 5 songs out of the 100 there that i've even heard of at all...

pop music isn't necessarily supposed to 'stand the test of time' as far as i'm concerned anyway, no idea why people always think this is an important test of music's quality. 'will people still listen to this music after i'm dead? will i still listen to this music when i'm older and my tastes and perspectives have changed?'... why should any of this be a part of whether i enjoy a song right now when i am listening to it????? it's ok for a song to be simply of the moment! you never know which songs will stick with people long after the fact. some of the songs on that brit list might be sticking with you more than they're sticking with the rest of us though...
Thank you! Exactly what I was thinking
Old 9th March 2014
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
Or.. people who like mainstream music and can't fathom it being criticized.. are fearful/spiteful when they realize they're the dumbest person in the room.
So I'm dumb for liking mainstream music? Once again unnecessary hate...
Old 9th March 2014
  #25
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sleepingbag's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Mainstream music is empty and very bad for you. You can live off it (If you call that living),
people who like mainstream music listen to it all the time and it becomes a part of their lives, they dance to it, they quote it with their friends, they speak its language.

people who only listen to 'artsier' music on the other hand..... i find how they engage with music to be insanely boring. you sit in a chair and at the end of the show you say 'that was very good' and then you go home.
Old 9th March 2014
  #26
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
the hate on this board is 100% sour grapes. there are a lot of people here making music that virtually (or literally) nobody cares to listen to.
well that includes you based on your logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
someone sees someone else obtaining success in a field that they themselves want to be successful in and they think 'this stuff is so basic compared to the cool stuff i do'....
I don't really see that often.. but I would have to agree. Reminds me of my childhood when people were highly competitive in the pop-punk scene.. hence I why I choose to go off and rave instead back then..
Old 9th March 2014
  #27
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
people who like mainstream music listen to it all the time and it becomes a part of their lives, they dance to it, they quote it with their friends, they speak its language.

people who only listen to 'artsier' music on the other hand..... i find how they engage with music to be insanely boring. you sit in a chair and at the end of the show you say 'that was very good' and then you go home.
Weird.. I'd say the opposite is true.. if we are stereotyping.

Mainstream audiences waiting for the breakdown so they can maybe wave their hands in the air..
Or "arty" types losing their **** on designer drugs and kissing each other.. boys kissing boys.. different races.. social class.. age... etc.. liberation..
Old 9th March 2014
  #28
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sleepingbag's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
well that includes you based on your logic.
certainly i myself often exhibit both jealousy and sometimes even hate (though mostly mock/joking hate) toward musicians, but i get off the bus at the part where some are like 'well their **** is stupid and basic and i don't want to make that kind of trash anyway'.... hell no, i want in! i want to be making the **** on the radio that some of you guys detest so much! i admire those making all sorts of music, because all sorts of music has enriched my life in all sorts of ways, and that definitely includes 'simple' mainstream music.
Old 9th March 2014
  #29
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1da View Post
So I'm dumb for liking mainstream music? Once again unnecessary hate...
I love being the dumbest person in the room.. it's part of growing mentally. It usually happens ironically when you think you have it all figured out.
Old 9th March 2014
  #30
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sleepingbag's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
Weird.. I'd say the opposite is true.. if we are stereotyping.

Mainstream audiences waiting for the breakdown so they can maybe wave their hands in the air..
Or "arty" types losing their **** on designer drugs and kissing each other.. boys kissing boys.. different races.. social class.. age... etc.. liberation..
i'm guessing probably some of the music you're calling 'arty' here is what i would call mainstream. i dunno. in either example of yours, people are being physically affected by the music they're listening to. i like that.
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