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Why so much hate on mainstream? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 17th March 2014
  #121
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7Wave's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
i can't get over the guy who thinks because he can tell me the chords in a song that this makes him just as accomplished as if he had written the entire song himself. one of the craziest/funniest things i've ever read on here.

And several of us here can't get over the guy who thinks pop music is some grand creative accomplishment.
Old 17th March 2014
  #122
Lives for gear
 

Ooooh, watch it 7wave. They likely have more insults up their (not so inventive) sleeves, to serve as incentive to get you on the 21st century pop music bandwagon once and for all.

The bag of pop music offerings is fairly empty, so they try to compensate, with other "enticements".
Old 17th March 2014
  #123
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
Listen to Grammy Awards and Grammy Nomination CD's. that's when you realise just how pathetic mainstream music is. That stuff is supposed to be the best of the best. It's almost always 100% pop trash bull**** not worth listening to. I tried multiple times. But they are just out of touch with the real world of music.

Meanwhile there are certain places on the internet where the music is aways fresh and innovative. Certain internet radio stations without commercials and certain genre sales sites.
I would have to agree.
Old 17th March 2014
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
And several of us here can't get over the guy who thinks pop music is some grand creative accomplishment.
post your music and let's judge if its creative or any good for that matter.
Old 17th March 2014
  #125
Everyone knows what pop music stands for right? lol, popular! what was pop music is no longer and what is pop music will die soon keep writing.

Has anyone heard that flo rida and kesha rodeo song, ouch!!!! production, singing, and the whole idea... lol

I remember when ladies could belt a tune ( whitney) Now I hear the perfection of a computer... I would go back to the days where my pony was able to be ridden.
Old 17th March 2014
  #126
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Benprogfuse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
LMFAO
Dude you are such a hater lmao
Maybe the are better artists than you?
Maybe they make better music than you?
Maybe they have a stronger work ethic than you?

Imagine if you used that hate and did something positive to better yourself?

You can't tell me you can make music at the same caliber as Katy Perry or Pharrell and you magically aren't big. Because most likely you don't make that music.

and there are people who are talking how all pop sounds the same.

WELL NO SHET!
Pop has certain progressions and arrangements that just work! Listening to pop music and expecting some radical evolutionary musical innovation is a bit foolish.

if pop is so simple, why don't you guys make these hit records and make millions? and don't say artistic integrity nonsense .
I think you missed my entire point. Did you read my other posts?
Old 17th March 2014
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Actually, the hate is directed at those who refuse to jump on the noisy, hyped, mega-corporate bandwagon. If someone dares to not behave like a blind, conformist lemming, they are attacked and insulted endlessly by the (few) mainstream music pawns/shills.
I think they might have a point though, because I mean McDonalds does sell a lot more meals than Ruth's Chris, so by that sense, the food at McDonalds has to be a lot better.
Old 17th March 2014
  #128
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7Wave's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
I think they might have a point though, because I mean McDonalds does sell a lot more meals than Ruth's Chris, so by that sense, the food at McDonalds has to be a lot better.
+1

And apparently anyone with anything critical to say about McDonald's food must first own a thriving fast food chain that is bigger and better than McDonald's.
Old 17th March 2014
  #129
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7Wave's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
post your music and let's judge if its creative or any good for that matter.
But that's just it. This conversation isn't about my music. This is about *their* music.

The last desperate move in any debate is to attempt (in this case, feebly) to undermine someone's right to speak.

And this conversation isn't about your music, either, so I won't ask you to post any of it. I'll even assume out of hand that your music is just fine. Doesn't matter. It doesn't affect the quality of Katy Perry's music, and it doesn't affect the price of tea in China.
Old 17th March 2014
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
+1

And apparently anyone with anything critical to say about McDonald's food must first own a thriving fast food chain that is bigger and better than McDonald's.
Ha !

Not only that, but in order to criticize a president or a politician you first have to show your political resume or your record as president.

And what if you want to criticize a movie actor ? Their response is, "So how good of an actor are you ? What movie have you shown YOUR acting skill in, hey bucko ?"

It's friggen hilarious ! heh
Old 18th March 2014
  #131
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
+1

And apparently anyone with anything critical to say about McDonald's food must first own a thriving fast food chain that is bigger and better than McDonald's.


I've got a number of buddies who are insanely talented musicians - the kinda guys who can play just about anything by instinct and ear - and every one of them has the opnion that the OP seems to be bemoaning. They don't like pop music because it is pop music. There is enough derivative crap out there that the few diamonds - and there have been a few in the last few years - get drowned out by the trash...

Whenever I hear one of these extremely gifted individuals tell me something to the effect "that song is so SIMPLE", I immediately tell them "then why don't you write something like it". They don't. They go back to their crazy-self-indulgent prog or competent "mainstream country"...

There is something inherent in the musician's mindset that says "NO" to popularity, even when they know better. Most skilled musicians could listen to a group of pop songs and point out the ways they work, the things people respond to, and so on - but actually going through and making something like it is "beneath them". In a lot of ways, it reminds me of the anti-intellectual snobbery that pervades western society - but that is another discussion...

There is also the point that someone brought up previously that people tend to gravitate towards things that are already successful. I believe the iTunes "meters" were used as the example - another good one is the voting trends in this country, but once again, I digress.

The "mainstream" industry, such as it is, is more dominated by [legal] "payola" (in the form of promos, mostly) than ever before. What gets on the radio, and therefore gets on the charts, is not being chosen by the "people", as it used to be. Sure, there are vestiges of the old system still in place - the call in show isn't completely dead - but [radio] DJ's are pretty much dead.

In other words, the labels determine what's going to get played (by promos with the corps that own the stations), and the charts are determined by that, and sales are determined by the charts. It isn't 100% deterministic - if something really sucks, even the best marketing can't really save it - but 99% of the charting music is put there by the labels.

This didn't use to be [as much] the case. The radio stations themselves - which were, of course, more relevant then - used to determine a great deal more of their own playlists. Deregulation of both ownership and payola laws - as well as more clever ways of getting around the latter - over the past 30 years has led to the radio being more and more dominated by the content suppliers, which in this case is the labels...

I guess I really don't know what my point is. Maybe it is that the artist's mindset has been turning more and more towards the "counterculture" way of thinking. Maybe it is that the deregulation of the popular industry has led to circular patterns of influence. Maybe it is simple media overload - after all, we see and hear more media today than we did even 10 years ago. It is probably all of the above. Put all that together with the mindsets of "pros" and "wanna-be-pros", and you get a recipe for disdain. It may even be warranted...
Old 18th March 2014
  #132
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T'Mershi Duween's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
it's PRETTY DAMNED HARD to be the dumbest person in the room on this message board
Yet you somehow manage to do this on a consistent basis!

You are indeed "special".
Old 18th March 2014
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post


I guess I really don't know what my point is. Maybe it is that the artist's mindset has been turning more and more towards the "counterculture" way of thinking. Maybe it is that the deregulation of the popular industry has led to circular patterns of influence. Maybe it is simple media overload - after all, we see and hear more media today than we did even 10 years ago. It is probably all of the above. Put all that together with the mindsets of "pros" and "wanna-be-pros", and you get a recipe for disdain. It may even be warranted...

Good post.

I think it's true, as you mentioned, that there is a heavy emphasis in popular music on trying to narrow consumer tastes and repeat past successes. Taylor Swift sells millions of albums, and it seems like they're all about mean boyfriends -- because that's what teenage girls want to hear.

The consolidation of media conglomerates that own major record labels also probably has something to do with it. Frontline did a good episode on this some years ago, called "The Merchants of Cool." They even talked about how major labels will try to capture counterculture movements, sell them to the mainstream as 'underground' and cool, which effectively kills it, and in the process they make their money and move on to the next thing.

The labels that record and market popular music rarely take chances, especially now that they're more answerable than ever to the conglomerates that own them. And I can understand that. It's a business. I'll even allow that there's an "art" to it, to being that successful, to making such accurate calculations about market viability and having everything fire on all cylinders commercially.

But then I'll occasionally encounter some artist who is *not* trying to be the next Katy Perry, Beyonce, or Amy Lee*. They're not catering to any demand. They may not even be particularly popular. They just have their own sound, they have a sense about how to make a good song, and it's beautiful and original. They may never become rich or famous, but as Will Hunting once said, at least they won't be unoriginal.

I think it's important to distinguish between music that's the entertainment equivalent of filling the demand for a cheap hamburger -- because they know it'll sell -- and music that happens to be good but is created without a thought about demand at all.

*I mention Amy Lee because of a funny story. There was a time not long ago when a *lot* of female vocalists, at least here in Austin, were emulating her vocal style. A few years ago I was auditioning several female vocalists for studio work on some songs I was recording. This was like 5 years ago, at the height of Evanescence's popularity. So I met with the first one and we did a trial run, and her voice was very close to Amy Lee's. "Thanks, I'll think about it and give you a call." Next day, another one. Sounded like Amy Lee too. Third one comes in. Sounds more like Amy Lee than Amy Lee. So I try to broach the topic gently.

"You sound a lot like Amy Lee."

"Yeah. She's my favorite singer."

"But what do *you* sound like? What did you sound like before you heard of Amy Lee?"

"I don't know. That's just how I sing now. It's how I want to sound."

"Yeah, but you're making the song sound like Evanescence."

"Yeah! Great, isn't it?"
Old 18th March 2014
  #134
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Nystagmus's Avatar
Asking somebody to make pseudoelectrocheerleader music when they don't like pseudoelectrocheerleader music is not the solution. Let them do what they excel at. It's got nothing to do with "counterculture" because mainstream promoted to heck so-called pop music has got nothing to do with culture. I don't know why people try to make this more complex than it really is.

Major labels got more money than most nations. So yeah, you can believe they market stuff until everybody on the planet knows their products. It's nothing to do with people actually liking the stuff. It's just that many people still don't know how to search for better material so they just go with what is spoonfed to them via mainstream media.

Show them how to use a search engine better and adblock plus and it wouldn't be happening. Being well known is not the same as being well-liked.

Everybody knows who hitler was. Is hitler popular today? NO!
Old 20th March 2014
  #135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
Asking somebody to make pseudoelectrocheerleader music when they don't like pseudoelectrocheerleader music is not the solution. Let them do what they excel at. It's got nothing to do with "counterculture" because mainstream promoted to heck so-called pop music has got nothing to do with culture. I don't know why people try to make this more complex than it really is.
+1.
Old 20th March 2014
  #136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
Asking somebody to make pseudoelectrocheerleader music when they don't like pseudoelectrocheerleader music is not the solution. Let them do what they excel at. It's got nothing to do with "counterculture" because mainstream promoted to heck so-called pop music has got nothing to do with culture. I don't know why people try to make this more complex than it really is.

Major labels got more money than most nations. So yeah, you can believe they market stuff until everybody on the planet knows their products. It's nothing to do with people actually liking the stuff. It's just that many people still don't know how to search for better material so they just go with what is spoonfed to them via mainstream media.

Show them how to use a search engine better and adblock plus and it wouldn't be happening. Being well known is not the same as being well-liked.

Everybody knows who hitler was. Is hitler popular today? NO!
This-- or a less obviously insulting-to-the-masses and unflattering-to-the-biz variant -- seems to be a dominant marketing meme right now: the notion that people want to be told what to listen to, are desperate for it.

It is, apparently, the rationale behind the dismantling of the very nice, user-selection oriented, all-320 kbps MOG subscription service to make way for the 'curated radio' style presentation embodied by the Beats Music service.*


*I loved MOG. Utterly hated Beats in my first trial but I have one more coming. First, it was mostly broken, little worked on Windows and Android platforms; second, there was really little way for the user to control his listening experience -- it seemed mostly oriented to feeding a string of designated 'hits' to the listener. Maybe that's what average folks want. I don't know. It sure wasn't what I wanted for my money. EDIT: Just logged into Beats again for my final MOG user trial. They've fixed some broken stuff on the desktop player but it's still super limited and oriented to playing back a given album, playlist, at a time or just Pandora-style 'radio' -- with no play queue management. Still a very stunted user interface -- but still long on garish bling.
Old 21st March 2014
  #137
Here for the gear
 

You can make great, heartfelt music with a sound all your own that thousands of fans love, but none of that is going to convince Universal that you know better than they do. If you want to break into pop music, you'd better be ready for hundreds of hours of failure. The labels aren't looking for brilliant artists to drop fully formed beats onto the radio. They want someone who'll help them Frankenstein some hybrid pop monster from the stitched-together corpses of originality. And that's how we wound up with the Black Eyed Peas.

Nuff said

Read more: 7 Things a Record Deal Teaches You About the Music Industry | Cracked.com
Old 21st March 2014
  #138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankee View Post
You can make great, heartfelt music with a sound all your own that thousands of fans love, but none of that is going to convince Universal that you know better than they do. If you want to break into pop music, you'd better be ready for hundreds of hours of failure. The labels aren't looking for brilliant artists to drop fully formed beats onto the radio. They want someone who'll help them Frankenstein some hybrid pop monster from the stitched-together corpses of originality. And that's how we wound up with the Black Eyed Peas.

Nuff said

Read more: 7 Things a Record Deal Teaches You About the Music Industry | Cracked.com
Great Article. It confirms everything, and more, that I suspected about how mainstream music is made. What a damning article...It's even worse than I could have imagined.

Mainstream lovers - how do you react to that article?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #139
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankee View Post
You can make great, heartfelt music with a sound all your own that thousands of fans love, but none of that is going to convince Universal that you know better than they do. If you want to break into pop music, you'd better be ready for hundreds of hours of failure. The labels aren't looking for brilliant artists to drop fully formed beats onto the radio. They want someone who'll help them Frankenstein some hybrid pop monster from the stitched-together corpses of originality. And that's how we wound up with the Black Eyed Peas.

Nuff said

Read more: 7 Things a Record Deal Teaches You About the Music Industry | Cracked.com
Old 14th January 2016
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Having a problem with mainstream music is a direct reflection of having problems with different cultures, ideas, people, and traditions. Going against the grain becomes a necessity for many people because it stops them from learning and progressing. Learning and progressing would disrupt their world views. [/COLOR]
So not going along unquestioningly with the "fool multitude" automatically means:

a) you are a xenophobe
b) you are a luddite
c) you are avoiding some form of growth that would give rise to cognitive dissonance

Now I'm not going to say it's never true. It may even often be true. But to say it as a blanket statement of fact is so far along the spectrum of ridiculous it can't be measured.
Old 14th January 2016
  #141
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I like pie.
Old 14th January 2016
  #142
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Why so much hate on mainstream? I'd say mainly because it's vacuous, predictable, Corporately-controlled pap made by soul-less entities who would sleep with their own grandmothers if they thought it would make them rich and famous. If I think of more reasons I'll get back to you.
Old 14th January 2016
  #143
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Why so much hate on mainstream? I'd say mainly because it's vacuous, predictable, Corporately-controlled pap made by soul-less entities who would sleep with their own grandmothers if they thought it would make them rich and famous. If I think of more reasons I'll get back to you.
That is a lie. People love to vilify corporations as if they all have control over everyone in the world. There are ways to be rich and famous that have no...forget it. Corporations have control over everybody's minds, bodies, and souls.
Old 14th January 2016
  #144
Lives for gear
Good music is subjective. Well recorded and expertly performed music is sometimes good and sometimes bad, according to each ear. Bad recorded and bad performed music is sometimes good though perhaps more likely bad to my ear.

To my ear there is good music in most genres, including some of the music popular enough to be on the radio.

Maybe somewhere radio music is interesting enough to listen for more than a few minutes, but not often in my burg. Maybe the radio music well done or maybe not, but I will turn on the radio, scan the entire radio band, and find no station interesting enough to hear, and turn the radio back off. Maybe the best bet is the classical music stations if I'm in the mood for classical. Or maybe some other kinds of "real" music which happened to be popular in some bygone era. But then listening more than once per 6 months ruins it by repetition.

Seems about the same on radio-like streams such as pandora. Regardless if I tell the program a song that I like as the stream seed, within one or two songs the pandora-like streams will start playing the most awful crap then I have to turn it off. It is too much work hitting NEXT 3 songs out of 4.

In addition, I lose enjoyment of even good songs if I hear them too frequently, so even if the radio would accidentally play a good song, then they will go and ruin it by playing that good song over and over and over again until the good song isn't good any more.
Old 14th January 2016
  #145
Gear Maniac
 

Lot of extreme opinions here stated like fact.

I don't listen to much mainstream but don't really hate on it or the people that make it. A lot of those people still worked hard to get where they are. I don't necessarily respect the music in an artistic sense when I feel it is being created from a calculated & formulaic sense as much of mainstream music is but it doesn't mean that what they do is easy or easily duplicated as some suggest here. A lot of those people still started from nothing like all of us.

I also think that part of the reason the top 100 was more diverse musically in older times has to do with the actual industry and how music was shared. Nowadays there is basically an entire sub market of non top 100 type music that people listen to through non-radio means (Pandora/youtube/spotify/etc). There isn't much of an incentive to push some non-obvious-pop artist into that crowd of listeners because it simply isn't necessary for those bands to achieve success as much as it used to be. There are bands I've seen that tour well and do music full time for a living that have just 20k-30k facebook likes on their page. They aren't likely rich but hell if you can make music on that small of a scale fan wise and pay your bills without working a regular job that's pretty damn awesome.
Old 21st January 2016
  #146
Lives for gear
Boring safe music, even skrillex. The dub step was so done by the 2011-2012 when it went into mainstream. It's subjective because to lots of people it was new, but for people who keeps their hand on the new music pulse it was boring. Mainstream usually does not innovate.

It would be create if APhex would be mainstream, i would love to love mainstream music. Ofc there is good music in mainstream, mostly from back in the days. Look what happened to MTV.
Old 23rd January 2016
  #147
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Neckro!!!!!!!!

(nancy why why?)

I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like. Currently, I can't stand rihannakanyesherreenfloridalilwaynebobwhothe****ever. And I hate ****ry.

Can't really give you a list, but that doesn't mean I'm not constantly finding music I really like. Doesn't have to be underground, but just not the rap/pop/"rnb"/****ry ilk. And I hated the killers too.
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