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Why so much hate on mainstream? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 13th March 2014
  #91
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I don't hate any mainstream artists. I don't like a lot of mainstream music. I think people want to say it's some "hater" stuff where we are all jealous but it's not the case with a lot of us. I would say for my entire life, up to 10 years ago, I liked many mainstream artists, some quite a bit. I like many mainstream artists before my time. So, I would say my music taste starts in the 60's. Granted, I didn't exist and hand picked through about 30 years of music but still, that's 50ish years of mainstream music that I liked a bit of, at times, I like a lot of it.

In the last 10 years, and especially the last 5, I have not found any mainstream artist appealing. There were a very small amount of artists that ended up in the mainstream I did like but they were not really of the current mainstream sound.


If I hate anything right now, I hate the fact that record labels don't take any risk anymore. I feel in any given genre in any given year, there really are only a few artists. I feel if you are a mainstream artist and release an album in 2014, by default, you are nominated for a Grammy as long as you didn't totally flop. I am exaggerating a little bit here but not by much.
Old 13th March 2014
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
If I hate anything right now, I hate the fact that record labels don't take any risk anymore. I feel in any given genre in any given year, there really are only a few artists.
Can you blame them ? music is based around the younger class, I think the labels are gun shy. I stopped shopping for a label in 1988, the response I got from the big labels was " you sound like everyone else", we would love to sign you b/c you are a great artist with great songs but we need to reach out for something different.
Besides who wants a label today and fall flat on your face and owe the record label the rest of your life.
I surely hope music can find it's way back one day.

To be honest I listen to talk radio and a bit of jazz far as newer stuff, other than that it's classic rock and blues, nothing in the past 10-15 years worth a listen to.
Old 13th March 2014
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
i respect just about anyone making top 40 music much much more than i respect a lot of people on this board, it's true.
And in return you demand they respect YOUR views on things ??
Old 13th March 2014
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
Can you blame them ? music is based around the younger class, I think the labels are gun shy. I stopped shopping for a label in 1988, the response I got from the big labels was " you sound like everyone else", we would love to sign you b/c you are a great artist with great songs but we need to reach out for something different.
Besides who wants a label today and fall flat on your face and owe the record label the rest of your life.
I surely hope music can find it's way back one day.

To be honest I listen to talk radio and a bit of jazz far as newer stuff, other than that it's classic rock and blues, nothing in the past 10-15 years worth a listen to.
Well, that's the thing, I don't even know if it is good or bad for them. The labels aren't seeming to do well, record sales are terrible. I don't know if more variety in the market would bring people back into music or if it would be an incredibly poor investment. I do know that when there were more artist, it seems like the records stores were full. I know the record stores don't really exist (they still do in my area) but I can't say. I know that I would buy more records with more diverse music, I honestly have to get my music from artists that used to sell well enough to have indie label support by keeping tabs on Facebook. It's challenging for the one who wants more music in their life right now, at least it is for myself.
Old 13th March 2014
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
And in return you demand they respect YOUR views on things ??
yeah, that's what i do, i demand it!

well actually no, if you read my posts again and follow really closely what the words and sentences are saying, you might notice that i haven't demanded anything.

i requested that people employ some basic human decency and maybe stop being so vocally hateful toward people succeeding in the music biz, i've requested this over and over again because this board benefits when successful people in the music biz, even if they're making music that you personally might not care for, hang around here, and all the unconfined vitriol often chases them away. but no, it's apparently really important for you to be able to tell the world loudly and frequently that you HATE katy perry or taylor swift or whoever it is, so you know whatever, go for it, do your thing, you seem upset about something and hopefully it makes you feel a lot better to go ahead and HATE on these people.


Old 13th March 2014
  #96
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Disliking a song, or feeling indifferent to it isn't the same as hating the artist as a person.
Old 13th March 2014
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
here's the bottom line for me: if you've never written a hit, what makes you think you understand the process and are qualified to tell anyone else about how it works? you don't, and you aren't. end of story.
Well, because the process is quite transparent. Anybody with experience in production knows "how it works." And yes, some popular music is an impressive feat of production and audio engineering, but the level of artistry in the songwriting is nothing lofty or hard to reach. The fact that you don't get this is kind of odd.

You apparently put pop music on a pretty high pedestal, but you need to understand that this opinion is not universal among musicians and songwriters.

It reminds me of the time I was sitting on a panel in which a historian asked those in attendance who they thought the greatest living human being was, and why. The most common response among college undergrads was Bill Gates. And why? "Because he has the most money. Why else?"
Old 13th March 2014
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
I find these kind of comments and this kind of thinking irrelevant, because it is not the song that makes the song a hit.

most of the time anyway..
True enough.
Old 13th March 2014
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
again, i don't give a **** if you personally like any of these songs, they're pop songs, 99% of pop songs are going to be disliked by most people.
The fact that you can't see the logical inconsistency in this statement is astounding.
Old 13th March 2014
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
BUT when someone on here tells me he can make a pop song easily because they're nothing special musically, to me it is the same thing as someone who's played the guitar for a couple of days telling me that because he can easily play e.g. 'day tripper' that he could have written it. it's frankly dumb if you think about it for even like a second and shows a blatant misunderstanding of the process.

There's really no equivalency between a Beatles song like 'Day Tripper' and a pop song of today.

Pop artists of today tend to be formulaic. They put out entire albums of songs that follow the same basic chord progressions and use the same Europop based sound sets. Much of the music that charts today uses sampled and layered 909 kicks and snares that are heavily effected and compressed, laid down in four-on-the-floor rhythms. Again, it is not difficult to make music that replicates these types of sounds and these chord progressions, while at the same time making it different enough that you could call it your own.

In fact, to use the Beatles as an analogy, we could say that pop music today is intended as a serious rendition of what Eric Idle et al. intended as a joke when they came up with The Rutles:

Old 13th March 2014
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
here's the bottom line for me: if you've never written a hit, what makes you think you understand the process and are qualified to tell anyone else about how it works? you don't, and you aren't. end of story.
And to quote myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
I find these kind of comments and this kind of thinking irrelevant, because it is not the song that makes the song a hit.

most of the time anyway..
The point is, if I came out with a pop type song today, it would probably never go anywhere. If Katy Perry or Pharrell released the same exact identical song, it would most likely be a hit… Why is that? Answer this Sleepingbag?

And let’s say that my vocals are considered equally as good.
Old 13th March 2014
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
I love Michael Jackson, Prince, Led Zeppelin, Cream, as well as several other pop singers, producers and bands.

Don't care much about Skrillex or Deadmau5. I just don't think their music is very good. They could have sold 5 copies, and I still wouldn't like it. Nothing to do with them being popular, just personal taste.
I completely agree.
Old 13th March 2014
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Wave View Post
Pop artists of today tend to be formulaic. They put out entire albums of songs that follow the same basic chord progressions and use the same Europop based sound sets. Much of the music that charts today uses sampled and layered 909 kicks and snares that are heavily effected and compressed, laid down in four-on-the-floor rhythms. Again, it is not difficult to make music that replicates these types of sounds and these chord progressions, while at the same time making it different enough that you could call it your own.
if this is how you think popular music is made, well.... that might explain why your music isn't popular. there are maybe 2 songs on the billboard top 20 that what you are talking about comes even a little bit close to describing. the rest have absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. maybe it's time to update your formula?

really, though, why do you think you are able to tell anyone how music on the radio is made when you clearly don't listen to the radio, don't care about what's actually happening there, etc.? you can just admit this is something you don't know much about, it's ok, no one's going to judge you very harshly for that. actually if anything, i think you'll win major points on GS by telling people how long it's been since you've listened to the radio. what's it been, 10 years? sounds like it, from what you described in the part i quoted.
Old 13th March 2014
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
The point is, if I came out with a pop type song today, it would probably never go anywhere. If Katy Perry or Pharrell released the same exact identical song, it would most likely be a hit… Why is that? Answer this Sleepingbag?

And let’s say that my vocals are considered equally as good.
i don't think there's any chance at all that you and katy perry would release an identical song. katy perry works with people who know how to write songs that large numbers of people respond to. i really don't mean any offense, but you most likely don't know how to do that, just because that is a skill that takes time and effort and knowledge to master, like everything else that one can practice to get good at.

i mean, if your point is that these people are more, like, attractive than you or whatever, and it doesn't matter what they're singing, all you have to do is find someone attractive and have them sing one of your songs. might as well do that, since it's that easy, right? is there any reason not to? instant success for the both of you!
Old 13th March 2014
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
i don't think there's any chance at all that you and katy perry would release an identical song. katy perry works with people who know how to write songs that large numbers of people respond to. i really don't mean any offense, but you most likely don't know how to do that, just because that is a skill that takes time and effort and knowledge to master, like everything else that one can practice to get good at.

i mean, if your point is that these people are more, like, attractive than you or whatever, and it doesn't matter what they're singing, all you have to do is find someone attractive and have them sing one of your songs. might as well do that, since it's that easy, right? is there any reason not to? instant success for the both of you!
That's exactly how it is and the biggest difference is made by the industry backing and promoting them.

You make me feel like I'm arguing with a kid who doesn't realize Santa Clause doesn't exist yet.

The industry does not seek out and find what's popular and try to capture and produce it. The industry creates what is popular and tells people what to like and they buy it. Like any other industry.

There are countless studies on it.

I read a study a few years ago where 20 different songs by 20 different artists were posted on a website where people could listen and vote on each song. The votes were pretty flat across the board. The website only displayed to the owner how many times each song was played and the results of this were pretty flat as well.

Then they changed the page to display how many votes and plays each song had already had for the voters to view (These results were purposely fabricated on the "display", not the actual results) and the results were that the ones which already had the most votes/listens, then received the most votes/listens by the voters. This study showed how the general public is influenced by what is already popular.

The same goes for iTunes. If you view an entire album on iTunes, it will show a meter next to each song showing how many times the song was viewed. When the average person logs onto that page, they will see the meter and be prone only to listen to the songs with the most amount of plays and ignore the ones with the least.

ok, say I agree that Katy Perry knows how to write songs that large numbers of people respond to, etc. If Katy Perry wrote me a song and I released it under my name, it probably would never go anywhere. If she released it under her name, it would more than likely become a hit.
Old 13th March 2014
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
ok, say I agree that Katy Perry knows how to write songs that large numbers of people respond to, etc. If Katy Perry wrote me a song and I released it under my name, it probably would never go anywhere. If she released it under her name, it would more than likely become a hit.
well that's because she also knows how to perform it in a way that people respond to in mass, another skill that no offense but i doubt you are nearly as well practiced at.


guys it's ok to admit that these people might be good at what they do, even if you don't like it. it's not necessary to have to cut everyone down by saying 'that's stupid, i could do that', and it comes across to me as especially strange if you're saying things like this but haven't demonstrated to anybody that you can actually do it. if you had experience in this field of music i might believe you if you told it's easy... but i also doubt you'd be saying that at that point because maybe then you'd have an idea of how tough the competition in this area is and how none of it is as simple as you make it out to be.
Old 13th March 2014
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
if this is how you think popular music is made, well.... that might explain why your music isn't popular. there are maybe 2 songs on the billboard top 20 that what you are talking about comes even a little bit close to describing. the rest have absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. maybe it's time to update your formula?

really, though, why do you think you are able to tell anyone how music on the radio is made when you clearly don't listen to the radio, don't care about what's actually happening there, etc.? you can just admit this is something you don't know much about, it's ok, no one's going to judge you very harshly for that. actually if anything, i think you'll win major points on GS by telling people how long it's been since you've listened to the radio. what's it been, 10 years? sounds like it, from what you described in the part i quoted.

LOL I listen to the radio every day. You make a lot of assumptions. It is not difficult to reverse engineer what went into writing and recording any pop song that shows up on the radio. It's all too easy, in fact. My description of that production style was specific to Katy Perry and similar knock offs. More broadly, we could categorize about 90% of the pop music you hear on the radio into about five derivative stylistic groups, and trace it back to the style of other songs by other artists that it emulates.
Old 13th March 2014
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingbag View Post
well that's because she also knows how to perform it in a way that people respond to in mass.
Are you referring to auditory performance?
Old 13th March 2014
  #109
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Just for fun, I went ahead and auditioned the top 20 songs on the Billboard Hot 100, and every one of them -- every one -- is closely derivative of other recent hits, and very simple to decipher musically. All of it is built around *extremely* basic chord progressions, to the point that there's hardly an example with even a simple chord variation like a diminished or augmented third in any of them. And they only become more derivative as you move down the list. One Republic's "Counting Stars" uses one of the most common chord progressions and musical styles on any pop music list. Meanwhile, Pitbull and Kesha's "Timber" uses THE SAME EXACT chord progression as One Republic, but it's a pop/rap song with the aforementioned four-on-the-floor 909 kick. This is just a random sampling. You're making this way too easy. "Best Day of My Life" is practically identical to other recent pop songs. Meanwhile, John Legend has another piano ballad that is only remarkable for his vocal ability. The music is basic and similar to other recent songs of that format. Same goes for Beyonce's "Drunk in Love." Jason Derulo's "Talk Dirty" follows what is probably the most tired and typical formula. It's basically another "Yeah" by Usher, which has been done and redone to death. Just another song you'll hear 'in da club.' The list goes on.

Too easy.

The Hot 100 : Page 1 | Billboard
Old 16th March 2014
  #110
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Mainstream

I was just in the book store Branes and Nobles. On the magazines front pages you will find this month.
Nirvana
Bad Company
Bowie
Pink Floyd
Metallica
Stones
Kiss
Ramones
Beatles
Dolly Parton
Mark Knopfler
Eric Clapton
Van Halen

Are these artist Mainstream as in top 40 etc ????
Magazines have interest in real artist not the crap thats being released today.
They must think Mainstream sucks.
Old 16th March 2014
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
I was just in the book store Branes and Nobles. On the magazines front pages you will find this month.
Nirvana
Bad Company
Bowie
Pink Floyd
Metallica
Stones
Kiss
Ramones
Beatles
Dolly Parton
Mark Knopfler
Eric Clapton
Van Halen

Are these artist Mainstream as in top 40 etc ????
Magazines have interest in real artist not the crap thats being released today.
They must think Mainstream sucks.
There are many many people (I'd say a majority of the population, young and old) who are rejecting the disposable product provided by the mainstream pop music paradigm. They crave something with more integrity and substance. The artists you mention have much more staying power compared to the latest over-hyped, over-produced trendy mega-hit.
Old 16th March 2014
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
There are many many people (I'd say a majority of the population, young and old) who are rejecting the disposable product provided by the mainstream pop music paradigm. They crave something with more integrity and substance. The artists you mention have much more staying power compared to the latest over-hyped, over-produced trendy mega-hit.
So true, and that was just a hand full. And as big as country is which I hate they were none on the covers.

Perhaps the only reason could be that the mag sells are focused on mid aged people rather than youth ?
Anything out today is drowned with Drama as well.
Old 16th March 2014
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
And to quote myself:


The point is, if I came out with a pop type song today, it would probably never go anywhere. If Katy Perry or Pharrell released the same exact identical song, it would most likely be a hit… Why is that? Answer this Sleepingbag?

And let’s say that my vocals are considered equally as good.
LMFAO
Dude you are such a hater lmao
Maybe the are better artists than you?
Maybe they make better music than you?
Maybe they have a stronger work ethic than you?

Imagine if you used that hate and did something positive to better yourself?

You can't tell me you can make music at the same caliber as Katy Perry or Pharrell and you magically aren't big. Because most likely you don't make that music.

and there are people who are talking how all pop sounds the same.

WELL NO SHET!
Pop has certain progressions and arrangements that just work! Listening to pop music and expecting some radical evolutionary musical innovation is a bit foolish.

if pop is so simple, why don't you guys make these hit records and make millions? and don't say artistic integrity nonsense .
Old 16th March 2014
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
LMFAO
Dude you are such a hater lmao
Maybe the are better artists than you?
Maybe they make better music than you?
Maybe they have a stronger work ethic than you?

Imagine if you used that hate and did something positive to better yourself?

You can't tell me you can make music at the same caliber as Katy Perry or Pharrell and you magically aren't big. Because most likely you don't make that music.

and there are people who are talking how all pop sounds the same.

WELL NO SHET!
Pop has certain progressions and arrangements that just work! Listening to pop music and expecting some radical evolutionary musical innovation is a bit foolish.

if pop is so simple, why don't you guys make these hit records and make millions? and don't say artistic integrity nonsense .
I love when people make sense.
Old 16th March 2014
  #115
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i can't get over the guy who thinks because he can tell me the chords in a song that this makes him just as accomplished as if he had written the entire song himself. one of the craziest/funniest things i've ever read on here.
Old 16th March 2014
  #116
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I surely hope crappy mainstream music continues, because as in all arts there is a group that rebels against what's popular or what they don't agree with. Else we wouldn't have currents.
Old 16th March 2014
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
LMFAO
Dude you are such a hater lmao
Actually, the hate is directed at those who refuse to jump on the noisy, hyped, mega-corporate bandwagon. If someone dares to not behave like a blind, conformist lemming, they are attacked and insulted endlessly by the (few) mainstream music pawns/shills.
Old 16th March 2014
  #118
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Listen to Grammy Awards and Grammy Nomination CD's. that's when you realise just how pathetic mainstream music is. That stuff is supposed to be the best of the best. It's almost always 100% pop trash bull**** not worth listening to. I tried multiple times. But they are just out of touch with the real world of music.

Meanwhile there are certain places on the internet where the music is aways fresh and innovative. Certain internet radio stations without commercials and certain genre sales sites.
Old 16th March 2014
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Actually, the hate is directed at those who refuse to jump on the noisy, hyped, mega-corporate bandwagon. If someone dares to not behave like a blind, conformist lemming, they are attacked and insulted endlessly by the (few) mainstream music pawns/shills.
People like you say stuff like this because your music isn't successful.

That's where the hate comes from.
If your music was popular you'd wouldn't be complaining.

No one forces you guys to listen to this stuff either , so why complain?

You guys listen cause you're attracted to their success.

The Beatles wrote pop songs to, Mozart was pop also.

You must be one of those jazz guys who be using 'deliquent 3rd' chords because you don't want to do what has been done.
Old 16th March 2014
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
People like you say stuff like this because your music isn't successful.

That's where the hate comes from.
If your music was popular you'd wouldn't be complaining.

No one forces you guys to listen to this stuff either , so why complain?

You guys listen cause you're attracted to their success.

The Beatles wrote pop songs to, Mozart was pop also.

You must be one of those jazz guys who be using 'deliquent 3rd' chords because you don't want to do what has been done.
Kenny G ? Is that you ?
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