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Roland SH-101 prices insane or justified? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 25th April 2014
  #241
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I did some research last night, Sh 101's used the same Curtis chips found in my DSI Prophet 8 - interesting.
No, they're not the same chips and they don't sound similar at all.

The Roland SH-101 uses CEM 3340 (like Roland MC-202, Jupiter 6, MKS-80 rev4, SCI Pro One, Prophet 5 rev3, Prophet 10, Prophet T8, Prophet 600, Crumar Spirit, Synton Syrinx, Moog Memorymoog, Oberheim OB8, Oberheim OBX-A).

Worth noting that these are all highly desirable synths amongst people who've played a lot of synths. Whilst the implementations in these VCOs differ significantly, they all have this famous "dry" quality which can almost sound y when the filter closes hard on it. I think the SH-101 has one of the best VCOs out of the half a dozen of these I've personally played. It really is a corker, especially for making sub bass.

Whereas the Prophet '08 apparently uses the same synth-on-a-chip as the Marion Prosynth, a part which is similar to (but with a more extended frequency range at both ends than) the CEM 3396, used in the Cheetah MS6, Oberheim Matrix 6, Matrix 1000.

Whilst these synths have their fans, it's fair to say that the VCOs are hardly the strong point. Saying that the Pro 08 VCO sounds distinct from the CEM 3396 and it has its fans. I'm not one of them.
Old 25th April 2014
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
The same goes for all X0X's. Yet they still keep giving!
909 might be the only one of the bunch that I'd like to own. But I'm an Elmo at heart.
Old 25th April 2014
  #243
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitradix View Post
The DSI Prophet 8 uses DCOs (still analogue oscillators but digitally controlled ones), and a PA397 for the filter which is a stereo version of the CEM3396.
Beaten to it! And I stand corrected... I had assumed incorrectly that the oscillators of the Pro8 were on the same chip as the filter.

In any case, you don't need to know why. They don't really sound similar so just try them both and see which one you like better
Old 25th April 2014
  #244
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I'm going to speculate the reason an exact clone hasn't been made is Roland
Roland does not clone. They've consistently and repeatedly shown that they're not going to clone, either.

The Juno-106 voice chips were successfully cloned by non-mass production means; IMHO that shows that it's not a complete impossibility to do it. Nobody's stepped up to it yet, though. The CEM 3340s in the 101 have hit the $70 per piece price (that's why I'm glad I don't have a CEM polysynth - 12 of 'm in a JP6, sucks if all of 'm go poof at the same time).

The most important thing a re-release will enable is a new wave of affordable polyphonic synthesizers; lots of synths were based on that chip, and it takes up a fraction of the room a voice board would.
Old 25th April 2014
  #245
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Synthbuilder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by yumcha View Post
I had assumed incorrectly that the oscillators of the Pro8 were on the same chip as the filter.
No you were right. The analogue part of the DCO and the waveshapers are all part of the PA397. Which is indeed mighty similar to the CEM3396.

Tony
Old 25th April 2014
  #246
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AuldLangSine's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I'll spell it out as clearly as I can - for the inflated prices being asked, and received, for a 30 year old, flimsily built plastic synth there are better, much better choices out there...
The SH101 prices are almost exactly the same as when new: If you don't want to account for monetary inflation over 30+ years, go to the car dealership and tell them you won't pay more than $4000 for a brand new car. Insist that anything over ten cents is absurd for a loaf of bread or cup of coffee at a restaurant. Go on a milk forum and insist that anything over 50 cents is too much for a half gallon.
Old 25th April 2014
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
A simple turn of an eq knob on a mixer or in software is all it takes to take a basic single-osc evolver patch, thin it out and turn it into a perfect-for-techno anything. I do it all the time ....
Good for you. Evolver is not really to my taste. Especially in terms of bassy sounds or sounds with filter movement.
Old 25th April 2014
  #248
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post
The SH101 prices are almost exactly the same as when new: If you don't want to account for monetary inflation over 30+ years, go to the car dealership and tell them you won't pay more than $4000 for a brand new car. Insist that anything over ten cents is absurd for a loaf of bread or cup of coffee at a restaurant. Go on a milk forum and insist that anything over 50 cents is too much for a half gallon.
A more apt comparison, using your logic, would be to expect to pay the same for a Toyota Camry as you did when it was new, 20 to 30 years later ...

Would you?

Doubtful.

The rest of your post regarding current food prices is irrelevant.
Old 25th April 2014
  #249
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
You're out of touch
Ok, I'll remind my clients ...
Old 25th April 2014
  #250
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
A more apt comparison, using your logic, would be to expect to pay the same for a Toyota Camry as you did when it was new, 20 to 30 years later ...
Toyota? No. Vintage Porche? Maybe, if I was into cars.

Mechanical devices do usually suffer more over time than electric ones, though.
Old 25th April 2014
  #251
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Ok, I'll remind my clients ...
Hahahahahahahaha ... Oh that's a good one. You really got me there. Bravo!
Old 25th April 2014
  #252
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R3Member's Avatar
Eh, but who needs any of those silly cars when an AMC Gremlin can get you from point A to point B for cheaper.
Old 25th April 2014
  #253
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3Member View Post
Eh, but who needs any of those silly cars when an AMC Gremlin can get you from point A to point B for cheaper.
Had to Google for it, but I definitely would drive that! :D

Seriously!
Old 25th April 2014
  #254
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post
The SH101 prices are almost exactly the same as when new: If you don't want to account for monetary inflation over 30+ years, go to the car dealership and tell them you won't pay more than $4000 for a brand new car. Insist that anything over ten cents is absurd for a loaf of bread or cup of coffee at a restaurant. Go on a milk forum and insist that anything over 50 cents is too much for a half gallon.
But at the same time productivity has increased. Cheaper to manufacture things etc. It would have been at lot cheaper to produce and sell SH-101 today with the same features I'd reckon. Mobile phones and laptop are clear examples.
Old 25th April 2014
  #255
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R3Member's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
Had to Google for it, but I definitely would drive that! :D

Seriously!
A friend of mine used to have one and I loved driving around in that thing. Best of all, it was lime green. We'd get all kinds of strange looks from guys out on the road in their performance vehicles, haha.

Point is, anyone can complain about anything and point out that there is something either cheaper or supposedly better. It's all a matter of perspective though everyone has different needs and aesthetics. If personal aesthetics didn't matter, we'd all be comfortable wearing pink leotards and not think twice about it.
Old 25th April 2014
  #256
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
The CEM 3340s in the 101 have hit the $70 per piece price (that's why I'm glad I don't have a CEM polysynth - 12 of 'm in a JP6, sucks if all of 'm go poof at the same time).
CEM3340s sometimes die, like a lot of components, but they're not that fragile. I've got four synths with CEMs from the 80s and they're still going strong. 50 Euro for a replacement is more than worth it to keep my SH101 going if it needed fixing.
Old 25th April 2014
  #257
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Hans A's Avatar
 

So much anxiety tied up in hardware. It's actually absurd.
Old 26th April 2014
  #258
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jaxman12's Avatar
Nine pages of "Roland SH-101 prices insane or justified?"

It comes down to this. If it is worth it to you then get it. It's your money and you enjoyment. If it is not worth the price, go get something else. It's not like it's the only great Mono, No Memory Board out there. There are plenty of other boards out there you can have loads of fun with.

To the people that love thier SH101's, Don't make them out to be more than they are.

To the people who think its stupid to pay that much for a SH101. Don't be a killjoy and tell people they are stupid for buying it. Many people love these boards and get a lot of enjoyment from them. If they weren't that good, they would not be selling consistently for that price.

For me, I had two at one time. Went through that phase. Sold them and moved on to something else.
Old 26th April 2014
  #259
Gear Guru
Also - my friend recently picked up one for $800

Is that so bad?
Seems right to me
Old 26th April 2014
  #260
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jonesy101's Avatar
 

One went on ebay a few hours ago for £540 (in good condition). Pretty much the same price they all go for in UK. I could advertise my toe nail for 1k on ebay, doesnt mean i get it. Pointless thread.
Old 26th April 2014
  #261
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R3Member's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxman12 View Post
To the people that love thier SH101's, Don't make them out to be more than they are.
Looking through this thread, there's actually more people saying it isn't worth it than praising it. I actually agree with the price being a bit high and only got mine because it was cheap and required minor circuit trace repairs to get the keys working. If I had to pay over $1000 for one, I'd actually get something else, BUT, it seems rather ignorant to try to convince others that getting synth "A" is pointless because I can make synth "B" sound similar. And this is the problem with this thread, too many people are ignoring the fact that every synth has it's own individual characteristics. There really is no one synth to rule them all.
Old 26th April 2014
  #262
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxman12 View Post

To the people who think its stupid to pay that much for a SH101. Don't be a killjoy and tell people they are stupid for buying it. Many people love these boards and get a lot of enjoyment from them. If they weren't that good, they would not be selling consistently for that price.
So who are you, everyone's father? The thread asked the provocative question, it even uses the word "insane" in the thread title, if you feel the need to scold someone, scold the OP, or if you have kids at home, yell at them.

The thread title asked the question ... "Roland SH-101 prices insane or justified?"

So, if you answer "insane", people who've overpaid get all up in arms and feel the need to defend themselves, it's a no win.
Old 26th April 2014
  #263
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So is this a "talk the price of the sh 101 up" or a "talk the price of the sh 101 down" thread?

Let's not kid ourselves that it is anything else ok?
Old 26th April 2014
  #264
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ranzee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
So who are you, everyone's father? The thread asked the provocative question, it even uses the word "insane" in the thread title, if you feel the need to scold someone, scold the OP, or if you have kids at home, yell at them.

The thread title asked the question ... "Roland SH-101 prices insane or justified?"

So, if you answer "insane", people who've overpaid get all up in arms and feel the need to defend themselves, it's a no win.
If you pick at the faults of things long enough, you'll find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersuper View Post
So is this a "talk the price of the sh 101 up" or a "talk the price of the sh 101 down" thread?

Let's not kid ourselves that it is anything else ok?
I think its more of an education thread - let's stay on the positive side of this - people can make an informed decision.

So what is a reasonable price for an SH-101?
Old 26th April 2014
  #265
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Yoozer's Avatar
GAS knows no such thing as reason so asking what a reasonable price is is bound to end in disappointment heh
Old 26th April 2014
  #266
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Seccione's Avatar
 



This girl sure likes her release time long!
Old 26th April 2014
  #267
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lovekrafty's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzee View Post
If you pick at the faults of things long enough, you'll find them.



I think its more of an education thread - let's stay on the positive side of this - people can make an informed decision.

So what is a reasonable price for an SH-101?
In the UK I would say anything under £550 is average
For a fully functioning one.

But sometimes you can get a better deal.
Old 26th April 2014
  #268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzee View Post

So what is a reasonable price for an SH-101?
For me it would be $600 to $800.
Old 26th April 2014
  #269
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captaink's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekrafty View Post
In the UK I would say anything under £550 is average
For a fully functioning one.

But sometimes you can get a better deal.
Managed to pick up a fully working one last last year on the Elektron forum for £350 shipped. So can still be found at a realistic price.
Old 26th April 2014
  #270
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jonesy101's Avatar
 

So if the forthcoming System one gets amazing reviews, would that make an ounce of difference to the market value of the sh101?
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