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Avid circles the drain
Old 27th February 2014
  #121
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moran View Post
...but nothing about hemorrhaging cash is incorrect.

GM and Chrysler were designing and releasing new vehicles too, until...
.


What's the Chrysler division (87 years old) at Fiat worth now - $5 billion, if they're lucky? ...Elon Musk himself is worth twice that.

GM current market cap = $58.46 billion. 106 years old.

TSLA current market cap = $31.01 billion. 11 years old.


Out with the old - and in with the new!


If you can't serve the demand of the zeitgeist - ie, your customers - you're done.


.
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Old 28th February 2014
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
He is only right if there are viable alternatives...
Considering we live in this universe, what you are saying is I'm right then?
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Old 28th February 2014
  #123
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
Considering we live in this universe, what you are saying is I'm right then?
.



.
Old 28th February 2014
  #124
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
Considering we live in this universe, what you are saying is I'm right then?
Considering you wrote that no one would ever work on FCPX but you know two people that use it...

Considering that you admit not knowing what the alternatives are...

What you are saying is that you are wrong.


Besides that, considering that I know people that work on FCPX...

I am also saying you are wrong.

Alistair
Old 28th February 2014
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx View Post
LOL....The sad part is that may actually happen!

They hired the whole Sibelius team so……….????!!!!!!
Old 28th February 2014
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Considering you wrote that no one would ever work on FCPX but you know two people that use it...

Considering that you admit not knowing what the alternatives are...

What you are saying is that you are wrong.


Besides that, considering that I know people that work on FCPX...

I am also saying you are wrong.

Alistair
U get mad again? lol.

I bet those people who are "working" in fcpx are working alone. Then its the bees knees I'm sure.


You should take a break from the internet. You clearly get super angry over nothing.
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Old 28th February 2014
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by targa2 View Post
They hired the whole Sibelius team so……….????!!!!!!
So..

1. Hire sibelius team
2. ????????
3. make money


Clearly.
Old 28th February 2014
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx View Post
LOL....The sad part is that may actually happen!
In an ironic twist, Microsoft buys Avid and makes all of its intellectual properties exclusive to Windows Platforms!

LMAOO we'd all be screwed!
Old 28th February 2014
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
In an ironic twist, Microsoft buys Avid and makes all of its intellectual properties exclusive to Windows Platforms!
Media Composer IP could add some nice features to Windows Movie Maker if Microsoft ever got serious.
Old 28th February 2014
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Media Composer IP could add some nice features to Windows Movie Maker if Microsoft ever got serious.
I'd actually prefer if Microsoft bought the rights to PT and MC and made it exclusive to their systems.

As a company they have definitely approved and lately they realized that just giving what people suggest will make them money (unlike avid's trap like business practices).

Plus the actually windows computer (hardware) are beginning to show improvement and without arm and leg cost for a computer (unlike apple).

Microsoft could end up proving to be a real god send for us!
Old 28th February 2014
  #131
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Microsoft would keep them cross platform, like Office. It would actually be a better scenario than any of the others I've read floating around.
Old 28th February 2014
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claurence View Post
Microsoft would keep them cross platform, like Office. It would actually be a better scenario than any of the others I've read floating around.
Microsoft just got a new CEO this month. He's apparently looking for new areas to expand. Could be an interesting match.
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Old 28th February 2014
  #133
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

I feel Avid has been cursed for awhile. I was a fan of M-Audio (for the money) and bought plenty of their stuff. I bought my last interface right after Avid acquired M-Audio and I never really had much interest in them again. I thought M-Audio (Midiman) had great products for a very reasonable price. They jumped into a lot of other sectors before they were acquired and the product line got stale.

I was never a fan of how Digidesign dealt with PT. When Avid acquired them I thought something great would happen. Instead, it was a bunch of indecisiveness. They first went "Native", selling expensive cards that to my knowledge, allowed you to used the CPU power that was already there, with existing hardware. I never really got it so pardon me if I am wrong. They fairly quickly switched gears and made it truly native, allowing you to use any interface which, IMO, took advantage of those who bought the Native hardware. On top of that, they made PT 9, which really was what allowed you to use whatever interface you wanted a paid upgrade for users who had been loyal to the hardware. I can't remember if 9 or 10 was when it became a more expensive "cross grade" but it really was not worth it if you already had the hardware you invested into the software. Sorry, my timeline may be off as well, I honestly stopped paying attention after I didn't upgrade to PT 9 and the cost to upgrade became too costly to justify "cross grading".

I really feel Avid preyed on the loyal customers. It was a great thing if you always wanted PT at 9 but were loyal to another brand of hardware. They are the ones who had it easy. I truly felt that after PT 8, there was a lot of "we don't know what to do so lets make a quick decision". I believe PT 9 was announced almost like a breaking news story where "we finally started listening and we want to make changes ASAP".



That said, I truly hope it's acquired by a company who respects it. I would hate to see it go the way of something like EMU where they kept the name going but dropped everything it stood for (not that I am the biggest PT fan). I loved Sonic Foundry as well, I think Sony did a fairly bad job of trying to keep the product going. Ironically, I was going to re-buy Acid pro as I never registered my Sonic Foundry copy (Acid Pro 3), I think they were on 7 or 8 and couldn't register it because Sony didn't allow me to register that late. I checked it out and PT M-Powered was cheaper and worked way better. Acid got bloated with a lot of useless features where core upgrades were poorly done.

Worst comes to worst, I will change from PT. PT is a program that has paid itself off for me many times over. That said, I will sit and watch with PT 8. I only hope that they continue to use the same file format regardless as the worst thing that could happen to me is making it hard to continue to use my version while working with others, because a new company wants the upgrade. If Apple acquires, or it becomes Mac only, I am out. I feel their should be some type of customer protection act that keeps products going from multiple platforms to one. Even though I haven't upgraded from PT 8, I have paid my upgrades and once PT finds a stable place, I will upgrade, maybe buy again.
Old 28th February 2014
  #134
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
U get mad again? lol.
I am not mad. I am just pointing out the obvious lack of logic in your posts. And with your last few posts you are again contributing to this thread going to crap. You are actually the worst offender. Surprise surprise...

Quote:
You should take a break from the internet. You clearly get super angry over nothing.
I am not angry. On the other hand you have, true to form, posted nothing of any positive value in this thread.

Alistair
Old 28th February 2014
  #135
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
I'd actually prefer if Microsoft bought the rights to PT and MC and made it exclusive to their systems.
I doubt Microsoft would make it Windows exclusive but it would certainly be much better for everyone if MS took over Avid rather than Apple. There are very good reasons why Microsoft dominate the business market. Apple have less than 10% of that market (And that includes spendings on tablets).

As far as I am concerned Apple are just as bad or worse than Avid when it comes to how they treat their customers.

Quote:
Plus the actually windows computer (hardware) are beginning to show improvement and without arm and leg cost for a computer (unlike apple).
Windows has long been a better performing OS than OS X for audio applications...

Alistair
Old 28th February 2014
  #136
A couple of thoughts:

- say Avid tanked, or Apple did a Redmatika on them, bought them and stopped development. What replaces them in professional studios? Nothing I can see. Symphony/Logic is I'm sure great for mixing, but has none of the TDM/HDX advantages for tracking. It's just another expandable native system. What realistically happens? we all stay on PT10/11 (for those that bought HD) for the forseeable...we might bring in native rigs for mixing, but we're still gonna be tracking on TDM setups until there's a new option. That's a good 5 years at least.

- it would NEVER be Apple. Apple sell Logic at a loss, to sell Macs, and once you get a Mac you get an iPad, etc etc. They're really not going to care about Pro Tools. Whilst I'm no authority on the company despite close links (I'm in their studio right now), I can't see Sony doing it either. Again - not their market. They barely care about Vegas, they're not going to want another one. And Panasonic? even less experience than Sony in this market, surely!

- what about the VENUE system? or the S3L or whatever it is? VENUE runs the vast majority of larger venues I've been to out here (admittedly a small market) - anyone who's embraced digital FOH seems to love it, and from the demos I've seen, it's a great system as far as digital FOH goes. Surely that's one part of the company that's making money?
Old 28th February 2014
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I doubt Microsoft would make it Windows exclusive but it would certainly be much better for everyone if MS took over Avid rather than Apple. There are very good reasons why Microsoft dominate the business market. Apple have less than 10% of that market (And that includes spendings on tablets).

As far as I am concerned Apple are just as bad or worse than Avid when it comes to how they treat their customers.



Windows has long been a better performing OS than OS X for audio applications...

Alistair
There we go for another Mac Vs Pc thread, because we don't have enough of these already. We need MORE, MORE !
Mac VS Pc are like the Godwin law of Gearslutz, when you get there, you know it's the beginning of the end for the thread. heh
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Old 28th February 2014
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Or Apple could just buy it to break it. Maybe incorporate some PT IP in Logic for audio editing and Media Composer IP for multi-camera support in Final Cut etc. Scuttle the rest (Euphonix S6 hardware, ICON), sell the converter biz to Apogee etc.

That would scare me. Look what they did to Shake, the image compositing app. History. Apple has a habit of taking high end pro products and down-marketing them. FCPX, Logic, the new Mac Pro all dumbed down one way or another, not to mention relegated WAY down the list of Apple's development priorites.
Old 28th February 2014
  #139
FCPX has come a long way in a couple years, apparently. I too hated it when I first tried it but I know a production company that's about to put the bullet in their FCP7 systems with the most recent FCPX release. They trialled Premiere as well but still decided that FCPX was the way forward. It's not a huge company but they have four or five full-time edit suites ticking over at any given time.

Interestingly, I'm not even sure they gave Avid a go... stigma perhaps? Perceived costs?
Old 28th February 2014
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
FCPX, Logic, the new Mac Pro all dumbed down one way or another, not to mention relegated WAY down the list of Apple's development priorites.
How is Logic X dumbed down ? I've been using it since the Emagic days, and this version ( X ) is the most complete version ever released. Some aesthetic choices ( new icons, new colors ) do look very cheesy though, and it might give a superficial feeling of being "GarageBand-ized". But it's certainly not in terms of functionnality. I was seriously considering abandonning Logic before version X came out ( thinking it was abandonned, and feeling it was getting behind other DAWs), but this version is a solid move and changed my mind about it.

As for FCP-X , I'm only an occasional user, but I know quite a few people who now largely prefer it over previous versions, but it took time and a few updates. It's first release was VERY premature and damaged lots of people's perception about it, maybe in an irreversible manner for a few of them. They should have kept FCP 7 for a while until FCP X was mature enough to replace it. That was really the big mistake Apple did ( and in fact, they tried indeed to do some control damage afterwards by publishing future roadmaps about it's development, wich is something almost unheard of in Apple's ultra-secretive culture )

Anyway, I think pretty much everyone now agrees that Apple is very unlikely to be a candidate for buying Avid.
Old 28th February 2014
  #141
FCP version 7 was the defacto standard for a lot of studios. Then came FCP version 10 and lots of people jumped ship some going to AVID some to ADOBE and even some to SONY/VEGAS. There is no one standard anymore. If AVID goes belly up, as some have speculated, the video industry will survive and who knows maybe some people let go at AVID will start their own video software company.

A lot of people I know got away from ProTools and went with Sequoia or Presonus Studio One or any of the 5 or 6 other DAW software packages currently available. Again the defacto standard use to be ProTools for a lot of studios but it simply is not anymore.

The world continues to change and either you go along with the changes or you get buried by them.
Old 28th February 2014
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
How is Logic X dumbed down ? I've been using it since the Emagic days, and this version ( X ) is the most complete version ever released. Some aesthetic choices ( new icons, new colors ) do look very cheesy though, and it might give a superficial feeling of being "GarageBand-ized". But it's certainly not in terms of functionnality. I was seriously considering abandonning Logic before version X came out ( thinking it was abandonned, and feeling it was getting behind other DAWs), but this version is a solid move and changed my mind about it.

As for FCP-X , I'm only an occasional user, but I know quite a few people who now largely prefer it over previous versions, but it took time and a few updates. It's first release was VERY premature and damaged lots of people's perception about it, maybe in an irreversible manner for a few of them. They should have kept FCP 7 for a while until FCP X was mature enough to replace it. That was really the big mistake Apple did ( and in fact, they tried indeed to do some control damage afterwards by publishing future roadmaps about it's development, wich is something almost unheard of in Apple's ultra-secretive culture )

Anyway, I think pretty much everyone now agrees that Apple is very unlikely to be a candidate for buying Avid.
Here's what I mean by the dumbing down of Logic. It's a very capable, professional tool no doubt. Like you I'm an emagic veteran. I started using Logic when it was at version 2.5 and I got updates in the post on a floppy disc every six weeks or so.

However, I don't consider the "Garagebandization" of Logic a superficial issue. IMO it is now cluttered with bloat and gimmickry which hampers workflow and this has got even worse with X. Entirely my opinion of course but this issue and the way Apple clumsily shoe-horned Logic into Apple's pro app "look and feel" with version 8 have been a big turn off for me. I wish Logic had a De-Garageband pref and had "Logicized" Garageband rather than the other way round!!!

Simple example.... It's easy enough to load a channel strip preset of a trendy dance synth but you STILL have to delve down one too many sub-menus to instantiate an AU plug-in, why separate the Logic and AU plug-ins or do it the PT way? Apple adds all the Garageband stuff but audio editing is STILL far clunkier and slower than Pro Tools. The Logic piano roll editor has hardly changed since version 2.5. You STILL can't have multiple controller lanes in the piano roll editor but you can now have a drummer called Brian playing along with your song! And try adding controller 72 in a hurry!!! Picky stuff but it all adds up.

Getting OT now.
Old 28th February 2014
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Simple example.... It's easy enough to load a channel strip preset of a trendy dance synth but you STILL have to delve down one too many sub-menus to instantiate an AU plug-in, why separate the Logic and AU plug-ins or do it the PT way? Apple adds all the Garageband stuff but audio editing is STILL far clunkier and slower than Pro Tools. The Logic piano roll editor has hardly changed since version 2.5. You STILL can't have multiple controller lanes in the piano roll editor but you can now have a drummer called Brian playing along with your song! And try adding controller 72 in a hurry!!! Picky stuff but it all adds up.

Getting OT now.
Ok, I get your point now. And I agree that the audio editing and the deep sub-menus to access AU are subpar aspects compared to some other DAWs. It's just that "dumbed down" implied that there were things it used to do better before , and does them badly now or not at all, when it never really did them (well) in the first place.

( End of OT for me too :-)
Old 28th February 2014
  #144
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Psycho Monkey, in your explorations of a possible future event, people caught in those circumstances would only have to use an analog cue system. Frankly any old mixer that has a line in and direct out or pre-fader send (before the EQ circuit or just after if there is a bypassable EQ switch) with at least 2 aux sends (most will have more than 2 auxes) will work without hurting your audio due to the short path. Just add outboard for any tracking that needs it like a touch of verb for a vocal. Not much money to spend for a solution. Same way we have always been doing it for real no latency cues.
Old 28th February 2014
  #145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
FCP version 7 was the defacto standard for a lot of studios.
It's just not so, Thomas - there were many users of FCP7 & continue to be in the shadow of an errant FCPX release. And FCPX IS getting incrementally better…

However, for the larger budget feature films & higher-end television, it's remained Media Composer driven.

Maybe you speak the reality of the Ohio media marketplace, but in Hollywood the reality remains Avid.
Old 28th February 2014
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
That would scare me. Look what they did to Shake, the image compositing app. History.
AFAIK Apple took some features from Shake and incorporated them into FCPX (eg image stabilization etc).
Old 28th February 2014
  #147
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Scenario: Samsung buys Avid and ports the product portfolio to a new variant of Android . . .

<Just joking>

I think
Old 28th February 2014
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy_asakawa View Post
And FCPX IS getting incrementally better…
AFAIK FCPX was always intended to only get incrementally better. iirc it was a complete 64-bit re-write, not merely a GUI update on top of legacy Macromedia code, it was never intended to have all the features of FCP7 right from the start but a basic structure and increased capability added over time. Editors were always free to use both FCP7 and FCPX concurrently on different projects. imo FCPX is optimized for the non-tape based workflow (P2 cards, digital distribution etc) whereas FCP7 was optimized for the old-fashioned way of capturing tape in real-time and working with telecine'd film reels in bins etc.

p.s. were you the guitarist in Warrior? if so, how come you didn't stay in Ratt? S.D. had some good musicians back in the day. La Jolla's a nice spot!
Old 28th February 2014
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
FCP version 7 was the defacto standard for a lot of studios.
imo AVID Media Composer was the standard but FCP made substantial inroads.
Old 28th February 2014
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
AFAIK FCPX was always intended to only get incrementally better. iirc it was a complete 64-bit re-write, not merely a GUI update on top of legacy Macromedia code, it was never intended to have all the features of FCP7 right from the start but a basic structure and increased capability added over time. Editors were always free to use both FCP7 and FCPX concurrently on different projects.
Thats some good spin but no. I will never trust apple software for my living.*


*unless we live in the alternate reality of undertow where the only software available is apples
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