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Avid circles the drain
Old 26th April 2014
  #511
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This is the "Moan Zone" so moaning about anything including other members is fair game but just like with jokes if you can't take one you shouldn't tell one. In the other forum subsections we should show other members respect (I think it's in the rules somewhere too). It's an old trick to discredit the charactor of someone to lessen the impact of what they have to say, even more so if what they say is true. The trouble with the internet is there is no fear that if you step over the line you will receive physical harm. I doubt anyone here would call their wife/girlfriend a c*nt to her face even when she had just done something extremely c*nty because it would be clearly stepping over a line (and then you would likely end up divorced - without a girlfriend)(tip - should you ever be stupid enough to say that - many will still be smart enough to grab each hand of her's when coming at you, at that point now remember to put one of your knees in front of the other or expect some time on the ground in pain). Perhaps it's best that we stick to the facts and subject matter connected instead of taking shots at the moaners or defenders as that is what a healthy debate should be about, a learning process of all the points of view.

I personally feel critical feedback is needed to improve any product or service. How long do you think you would stay in business if your client's complaints fell on deaf ears because you were more concerned about short term profits. The trouble with many large organizations with little or no competition is that they dictate and control rather than shape their product/service so that both the producer and consumer are winners.
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Old 26th April 2014
  #512
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JSt0rm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
This is the "Moan Zone" so moaning about anything including other members is fair game but just like with jokes if you can't take one you shouldn't tell one. In the other forum subsections we should show other members respect (I think it's in the rules somewhere too). It's an old trick to discredit the charactor of someone to lessen the impact of what they have to say, even more so if what they say is true. The trouble with the internet is there is no fear that if you step over the line you will receive physical harm. I doubt anyone here would call their wife/girlfriend a c*nt to her face even when she had just done something extremely c*nty because it would be clearly stepping over a line (and then you would likely end up divorced - without a girlfriend)(tip - should you ever be stupid enough to say that - many will be still be smart enough to grab each hand of her's when coming at you, at that point now remember to put one of your knees in front of the other or expect some time on the ground in pain). Perhaps it's best that we stick to the facts and subject matter connected instead of taking shots at the moaners or defenders as that is what a healthy debate should be about, a learning process of all the points of view.

I personally feel critical feedback is needed to improve any product or service. How long do you think you would stay in business if your client's complaints fell on deaf ears because you were more concerned about short term profits. The trouble with many large organizations with little or no competition is that they dictate and control rather than shape their product/service so that both the producer and consumer are winners.
Thats all fine and dandy but a lot of the people who buzz around protools moans want nothing less then the total destruction of the software, throwing whole industries into a tizzy. Some people just want to see the world burn I guess.
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Old 26th April 2014
  #513
Lives for gear
 

Seems like you want to rehash or further debate the merits - harm of chaos that was already talked about in this and the longer Avid thread. Good points have already been made on both sides. If you want to make a new specific point I'm sure all will consider your words. I come from a city that has been burned right down to the ground a few times, Chicago and each time afterwards became better from that process. The short term harm gets replaced by long term good.
Old 27th April 2014
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
It's an old trick to discredit the charactor of someone to lessen the impact of what they have to say, even more so if what they say is true.

I personally feel critical feedback is needed to improve any product or service. How long do you think you would stay in business if your client's complaints fell on deaf ears because you were more concerned about short term profits. The trouble with many large organizations with little or no competition is that they dictate and control rather than shape their product/service so that both the producer and consumer are winners.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
Thats all fine and dandy but a lot of the people who buzz around protools moans want nothing less then the total destruction of the software, throwing whole industries into a tizzy. Some people just want to see the world burn I guess.
I know this is a long thread, but I am curious who stated that they wanted protools to dissolve? Maybe I missed that, but I think the majority of the comments on this thread pertain to Avid. I could be wrong though.
Old 27th April 2014
  #515
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JSt0rm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Seems like you want to rehash or further debate the merits - harm of chaos that was already talked about in this and the longer Avid thread. Good points have already been made on both sides. If you want to make a new specific point I'm sure all will consider your words. I come from a city that has been burned right down to the ground a few times, Chicago and each time afterwards became better from that process. The short term harm gets replaced by long term good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by louieshowers View Post
+1


I know this is a long thread, but I am curious who stated that they wanted protools to dissolve? Maybe I missed that, but I think the majority of the comments on this thread pertain to Avid. I could be wrong though.
I believe the poster above you basically just said that. I also think undertow would love it and has said so in this thread.
Old 27th April 2014
  #516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
This is the "Moan Zone" so moaning about anything including other members is fair game but just like with jokes if you can't take one you shouldn't tell one.
Actually, the moan zone rules are fairly clear - it's audio gripes only, not general stuff. So I'm not sure other members ARE fair game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
In the other forum subsections we should show other members respect (I think it's in the rules somewhere too). It's an old trick to discredit the charactor of someone to lessen the impact of what they have to say, even more so if what they say is true.
"Ad hominem" arguments (which is what you're describing) aren't really supposed to be anywhere on the forums. If someone starts getting personal - we aim to prevent that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Perhaps it's best that we stick to the facts and subject matter connected instead of taking shots at the moaners or defenders as that is what a healthy debate should be about, a learning process of all the points of view.
Absolutely! But it's fair to point out when someone is letting their emotions obscure the facts, or when they're apportioning blame in the wrong place (eg like I did with Louie above - if a dealer-organised repair takes 3 months, it's not because the dealer sent it to Avid the next day and it sat on a shelf for 3 months - all Avid do in this situation is generate a repair authorisation, and the dealer ships it to the service centre. The fault is with either the service centre or the dealer, so aportioning blame just because of a pre-disposed feeling to hate a particular company is wrong, and it's right to point this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
I personally feel critical feedback is needed to improve any product or service. How long do you think you would stay in business if your client's complaints fell on deaf ears because you were more concerned about short term profits. The trouble with many large organizations with little or no competition is that they dictate and control rather than shape their product/service so that both the producer and consumer are winners.
Agreed (of course). In Louie's above case, it would make sense to tell Avid their network is failing and there's been a problem in the supply chain.
Old 27th April 2014
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Actually, the moan zone rules are fairly clear - it's audio gripes only, not general stuff. So I'm not sure other members ARE fair game!



"Ad hominem" arguments (which is what you're describing) aren't really supposed to be anywhere on the forums. If someone starts getting personal - we aim to prevent that.



Absolutely! But it's fair to point out when someone is letting their emotions obscure the facts, or when they're apportioning blame in the wrong place (eg like I did with Louie above - if a dealer-organised repair takes 3 months, it's not because the dealer sent it to Avid the next day and it sat on a shelf for 3 months - all Avid do in this situation is generate a repair authorisation, and the dealer ships it to the service centre. The fault is with either the service centre or the dealer, so aportioning blame just because of a pre-disposed feeling to hate a particular company is wrong, and it's right to point this out.



Agreed (of course). In Louie's above case, it would make sense to tell Avid their network is failing and there's been a problem in the supply chain.
Just wanted to chime in for some clarification..
My repair issue was years ago on a measly mbox that i used for portability purposes. I was told that the unit was shipped to Avid. That is the information I was given.. This was long before I developed issues with Avid's business practices. In other words, the chronology of those events occurred in reverse. I mentioned specifics as to why I hold my contempt in earlier comments.

"Ad hominem" very familiar term.. One I learned back in Theories of logic class in College. It's considered a fallacy in an argument. I wish they never appeared on this thread and I encourage removal of them!

Thanks,
Lou
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Old 27th April 2014
  #518
Quote:
Originally Posted by louieshowers View Post
Just wanted to chime in for some clarification..
My repair issue was years ago on a measly mbox that i used for portability purposes. I was told that the unit was shipped to Avid. That is the information I was given.. This was long before I developed issues with Avid's business practices. In other words, the chronology of those events occurred in reverse. I mentioned specifics as to why I hold my contempt in earlier comments.

"Ad hominem" very familiar term.. One I learned back in Theories of logic class in College. It's considered a fallacy in an argument. I wish they never appeared on this thread and I encourage removal of them!

Thanks,
Lou
I don't want to dwell on this - it's just an example - and it may be that your box DID get shipped to Avid (or the dealer might have been using a generic term instead of explaining the process).

Avid Audio Product Repairs and Authorized Repair Centers (ARCs) gives some more details. Maybe Avid DO handle some of their own repairs in the US, reading this, so you might not be totally wrong. Looks like there's a lot of 3rd party repair guys too though...

(and the UK stuff always used to be handled by Technical Earth - assuming they're still there, looks like they might have lost the contract).
Old 27th April 2014
  #519
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I guess some of this thread got personal. I must have breezed by it with my lack of comprehension, care, or critical thinking.

In eighteen pages of moan, I have gotten, generally, one cohesive message.

Pro Tools is good or great software being (mis)managed by a company, Avid, which many of us would rather see ended. Pro Tools itself is very good, but is being killed by those we believe should be improving it.

Am I wrong?

This IS how I personally feel.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't want to dwell on this - it's just an example - and it may be that your box DID get shipped to Avid (or the dealer might have been using a generic term instead of explaining the process).

Avid Audio Product Repairs and Authorized Repair Centers (ARCs) gives some more details. Maybe Avid DO handle some of their own repairs in the US, reading this, so you might not be totally wrong. Looks like there's a lot of 3rd party repair guys too though...

(and the UK stuff always used to be handled by Technical Earth - assuming they're still there, looks like they might have lost the contract).
Many manufactures require Warrenty issues go 1/2 way around the world. In theory they should have parts and know what they are doing.

Often Service takes a while parts are back ordered, fixing the problem shows other problems, have to order more parts ect.

I can't think in all my years in the audio , 30 years of a major manufacture that hasn't been a long wait for service at least once!

And yes dealers do lie and even sometimes innocently .
Old 27th April 2014
  #521
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The more I read this I think like all Avid threads , there should be 2 threads , one for the professionals, people who make / have made the majority of there living from audio.
One from the people who want to be professionals and are doing this as a hobby. Because the more I read this I see why most of the pros who have the info most people want read this I understand more and more why they have left GS!
Old 27th April 2014
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
The more I read this I think like all Avid threads , there should be 2 threads , one for the professionals, people who make / have made the majority of there living from audio.
One from the people who want to be professionals and are doing this as a hobby. Because the more I read this I see why most of the pros who have the info most people want read this I understand more and more why they have left GS!
Correct me if I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that being a real pro means that you by default have no issues with Avid's business practices? And if you are a hobbyist vice versa? Further, that people moaning on the moan zone (presumably amateurs wanna bee pros) are chasing knowledgeable, professionals away? If that is what you are indeed saying, then you have just added the same points that exist heavily in this thread in a subliminal ad hominem fashion. And in the same logic, i would argue that being an audio "professional" does not qualify you any more when you are critiquing business and customer service practices. So we are all equally qualified and entitled to express our satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

In fact, in addition to being a "non-famous" audio engineer i have been teaching consumer education courses for upwards of ten years.

Not to dwell on my age old repair issue, but I received my item back 6 months later with a quality control sticker on it, with the same input gain pot broken. Just wanted to fill you in.

Ps. Thank you psycho monkey for the acknowledgement and the additional repair information.


Thank you.
Louie
Old 27th April 2014
  #523
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louieshowers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
I guess some of this thread got personal. I must have breezed by it with my lack of comprehension, care, or critical thinking.

In eighteen pages of moan, I have gotten, generally, one cohesive message.

Pro Tools is good or great software being (mis)managed by a company, Avid, which many of us would rather see ended. Pro Tools itself is very good, but is being killed by those we believe should be improving it.

Am I wrong?

This IS how I personally feel.
This is also exactly how i feel too.
Old 27th April 2014
  #524
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Really, you're trying to slip the Pro/Non-Pro character assasination thing through like there is not quite the record of legitimate Pro users complaint posts both here and at DUC (at least before they got deleted/censured by the damage control squad)? A quick check of a thread you started 6 years ago about people moaning about PT even had Pro's with legitimate complaints in it.

The good thing about this forum is that you can ignore anyone's posts and easily look up a member's prior posts to see if you should give any weight to their opinions. The biggest reason I've seen some very famous "Pro" members leave this forum over the years has been from character assasination.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #525
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Quit putting words in my mouth!
For AVIDS sake as a feed back tool it would be an interesting experiment to see if each group of users had a desperate discussion of what each group felt it needed to do to address that part of the market.
They and everybody else for that matter, can't build a product that will please every body!
They could learn and decide what direction they wanted needed to go in.
As a former AVID product specialist, who left the fold, came back to PT10 then went to HD 8 to meet the needs of his clients, I know that at one time they did actually listen to their clients.
But the problem with the Internet is anybody can come on and Say what they want and pretty much claim any background.
I want a better Pro tools since Mix I have been complaining in public, private and oh yeah to the people WHO MADE DECISONS AT AVID about how what was originally billed as a platform open to third party development was closed, how the choice to move down market would bite them in the long run!
I know from conversations with those who have left that because of my prior employment and client base that while my arguments carried weight because they knew who I was and where I was coming from.
Unfortunately other factors carried more weight!
Old 27th April 2014
  #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louieshowers View Post
"Ad hominem" very familiar term.. One I learned back in Theories of logic class in College. It's considered a fallacy in an argument. I wish they never appeared on this thread and I encourage removal of them!

Thanks,
Lou
You can add "reductio ad absurdum" to the list as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWGiOuzpe4
Old 27th April 2014
  #527
Gear Maniac
 

In the music industry at least, what separates those who make/have made a living in audio and those toiling away with the same tools trying to get there is largely a matter of luck, timing, personal taste, etc., so there's no real reason their opinions shouldn't be given similar weight.

And anyway, it's nice that people's arguments and supporting logic can weighed on its own merits without their background interfering with people's judgment of it. That's one of the things I like about this site. If you're talking about purely subjective artistic/creative opinions, then I understand the argument that people's backgrounds should play a role in how much weight they're given. But even then it should only be one factor because otherwise you throw away some good ideas out with the bad.

@ddageek, it makes total sense that you worked for AVID because you want to bucket people as "Pros" and "Non-pros". That's exactly what AVID does! And that is the single biggest problem with AVID's business model.

I see no reason why AVID can't make everyone happy. It's simple. Only have one version of Pro Tools, and that version will support every feature that can be supported with whatever hardware people choose to use. No more crippleware. Period. The people that want/need HDX can get that. The people that want Native can get that. The people that wanna use something else can too. The key is that AVID would quit purposefully limiting feature sets on certain hardware--they would do the exact opposite. So when HDX eventually becomes long in the tooth and certain features that could be implemented on Native can't on HDX because of hardware limitations, AVID would go ahead and give the features to the Native users. And vice-versa! If there's nifty new features that AVID could include on HDX and TRULY couldn't with other hardware, they should make those available too.

Problem solved. Everyone with honest intentions should be happy. Leaving aside any potential effects on AVID's business outlook/performance and speaking strictly in terms of attempting to make all users happy, what's wrong with the above approach? Not coincidentally, it's the business approach all the other DAWs use anyway. Make the software the best you can for the most number of people.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #528
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by louieshowers View Post
This is also exactly how i feel too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
I guess some of this thread got personal. I must have breezed by it with my lack of comprehension, care, or critical thinking.

In eighteen pages of moan, I have gotten, generally, one cohesive message.

Pro Tools is good or great software being (mis)managed by a company, Avid, which many of us would rather see ended. Pro Tools itself is very good, but is being killed by those we believe should be improving it.

Am I wrong?

This IS how I personally feel.

Exactly. Not facts. Not gospel. Just personal feelings. Held by some, dismissed by others.
Old 27th April 2014
  #529
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JSt0rm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
And anyway, it's nice that people's arguments and supporting logic can weighed on its own merits without their background interfering with people's judgment of it. That's one of the things I like about this site. If you're talking about purely subjective artistic/creative opinions, then I understand the argument that people's backgrounds should play a role in how much weight they're given.
wha? So my background in using protools 60+ hours a week for a decade should have no merit? lol. Its almost more cut and dry then with creative opinions.

I highly doubt people who dabble with protools truly understand all of its nuances - because back when I dabbled with it I didn't understand all the nuance. You can't possibly get enough time under your belt with the software without working situations and gaining experience that way.

are there things on my wish list? Yes. Are there things I think could be better? yes. Thats doesn't mean I want to burn it to the ground and salt the earth like some people do.

Corporations are evil and music has a lot of counter culture artists. So it stands to reason a lot of people see protools as a "pillar of evil" and want to tear it down because of that. Well a LOT of people are just content raising families and paying rent with protools as it is and don't want it to be raized.

They have a vested interest is using this software until retirement. Thats a hell of a big difference then someone who wants to make some music on the side. That person has the luxury of being able to dabble in many things and not really worry about deadlines.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #530
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
I see no reason why AVID can't make everyone happy. It's simple. Only have one version of Pro Tools, and that version will support every feature that can be supported with whatever hardware people choose to use.
I don't think that would make people happy. Should GM only make one model of car that everyone pays the same price for? Should my favorite restaurant have only one entree? Should all houses be the same size with the same look and cost the same? Should apple only make one computer with no options? Would that make everyone happy? I don't think so....
Old 27th April 2014
  #531
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
wha? So my background in using protools 60+ hours a week for a decade should have no merit? lol. Its almost more cut and dry then with creative opinions.

I highly doubt people who dabble with protools truly understand all of its nuances - because back when I dabbled with it I didn't understand all the nuance. You can't possibly get enough time under your belt with the software without working situations and gaining experience that way.

are there things on my wish list? Yes. Are there things I think could be better? yes. Thats doesn't mean I want to burn it to the ground and salt the earth like some people do.

Corporations are evil and music has a lot of counter culture artists. So it stands to reason a lot of people see protools as a "pillar of evil" and want to tear it down because of that. Well a LOT of people are just content raising families and paying rent with protools as it is and don't want it to be raized.

They have a vested interest is using this software until retirement. Thats a hell of a big difference then someone who wants to make some music on the side. That person has the luxury of being able to dabble in many things and not really worry about deadlines.
If people back their arguments up with supportive reasoning then other people should be able to judge it without knowing the author's background. The problem is that some people just wanna come on and try and tell everyone else how it is simply because they think they have more experience than them. They act like they're above having to support their arguments on the merits.

Quote:
I don't think that would make people happy. Should GM only make one model of car that everyone pays the same price for? Should my favorite restaurant have only one entree? Should all houses be the same size with the same look and cost the same? Should apple only make one computer with no options? Would that make everyone happy? I don't think so….
That response contains no actual reasoning whatsoever
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Old 27th April 2014
  #532
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
That response contains no actual reasoning whatsoever
Nor does (IMO) your response(s). Sorry, I don't see things thru your glasses no matter how hard you try. Get over it. It's what makes the world go round....
Old 27th April 2014
  #533
Gear Maniac
 

Oh I'm over it believe me. They can keep following your business "logic" and keep swirling the bowl
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Old 27th April 2014
  #534
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
Oh I'm over it believe me. They can keep following your business "logic" and keep swirling the bowl
They've been "swirling the bowl" for well over a decade. What's changed?
Old 27th April 2014
  #535
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JSt0rm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
If people back their arguments up with supportive reasoning then other people should be able to judge it without knowing the author's background. The problem is that some people just wanna come on and try and tell everyone else how it is simply because they think they have more experience than them. They act like they're above having to support their arguments on the merits.



That response contains no actual reasoning whatsoever
I don't have an argument

all I'm saying is that some of the people who complain about protools don't actually understand it and are jumping on the bandwagon.

someone in a thread was complaining about protools. I asked them what they didn't like because I was curious as to what it was that was better in something else. They talked about how they hated editing audio in protools. They said that they preferred the right click wheel thing in cubase compared to the multitool. They didn't even know about asdfg yet they made a public opinion on why they didn't like using protools based on 0 knowledge.

This example is the kind of lets all pile on the hate protools bandwagon that does no one any favors and its spurred on by those who just want to see protools gone.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #536
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
I don't have an argument

all I'm saying is that some of the people who complain about protools don't actually understand it and are jumping on the bandwagon.

someone in a thread was complaining about protools. I asked them what they didn't like because I was curious as to what it was that was better in something else. They talked about how they hated editing audio in protools. They said that they preferred the right click wheel thing in cubase compared to the multitool. They didn't even know about asdfg yet they made a public opinion on why they didn't like using protools based on 0 knowledge.

This example is the kind of lets all pile on the hate protools bandwagon that does no one any favors and its spurred on by those who just want to see protools gone.
Well if you asked them to explain their reason for PT criticism and it was without merit, then cool. But that doesn't mean that every criticism is without merit, nor every criticizer a likely malcontent who doesn't use the software and can be dismissed as such WITHOUT providing a counter-argument, and/or claiming that they're not "real" pros or something. I use it all day every day myself and have for years.

I outlined a business strategy with respect to PT and asked people to explain specifically why users should be unhappy with it. drBill responded with an analogy that simply pointed out the existence of different model cars without explaining WHY it would make PT users unhappy if Avid tried to give ever user as many features as their hardware would support.

Here's the logical results of his analogy'. My opinion of course...

Potential customer for AVID car: "why is your car in the $15,000 subcompact market lacking so many feature of the other cars in the same market? I mean, it only comes with a one-gallon gas tank. The competition all come with normal-sized gas tanks."

Avid car dealer: "Because if you want to get anywhere far you need to pay us a lot more for a car with a bunch of features you don't want or need. Plus, it would piss off our "professional" taxi drivers. They depend on us to force you to use them if you need to get anywhere far."

Potential customer: "okay bye."

Here's a new slogan they can use:

"Pro Tools. An uncompetitive, bare bones Pinto of a DAW or an overpriced Maserati, all with a confusing mess of different prices, features and compatibility issues. Because, you know, different model cars and stuff!"

But whatevs man. We clearly disagree. I just wanna see Pro Tools thrive. Don't see how it can happen if they keep doing the exact same thing they have been.

Edit: The Pro Tools features outlined in the Avid Everywhere vid definitely are a BIG step in the right direction. Now the issue is it remains to be seen how the features are actually rolled out, on what systems, and at what cost. Oh, wait, that's always the issue….
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Old 27th April 2014
  #537
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JSt0rm's Avatar
ok but, respectfully, anyone that actually uses protools has no business whipping up business plans for a publicly traded company For myself, I can offer up a plethora of ideas for options in the software but why does my experience lend itself to running a large software/hardware company? We can be critical of how those in charge have run it but we can't be critical in a educated way - if that makes sense. Like we don't truly understand how all those pieces fit together and stuff. All any of us, the end user, can really comment on is usability of the software. Now personally I am only interested in hearing these kinds of ideas from people who use the top of the line hd software and have been using it long enough to output a cohesive idea. We even have a crowd sourced website (idea scale) to challenge those ideas.

Avid certainly didn't invent the tiered software idea. Every company has it. Now have they in the past been out of touch with a lot of the customers? yes. Of course! And look at the stock now - Im pretty sure they know they fukced up. But if we listen to the people who just want it to burn they would see it sell for $50 and thats it because XXXX does this. Well i can tell you XXXX doesn't do all the stuff protools does. Nor does XXXX have the market penetration (one of the greatest value adds to getting into protools) that protools does. They make those demands from a position of ignorance.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #538
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
ok but, respectfully, anyone that actually uses protools has no business whipping up business plans for a publicly traded company For myself, I can offer up a plethora of ideas for options in the software but why does my experience lend itself to running a large software/hardware company? We can be critical of how those in charge have run it but we can't be critical in a educated way - if that makes sense. Like we don't truly understand how all those pieces fit together and stuff. All any of us, the end user, can really comment on is usability of the software. Now personally I am only interested in hearing these kinds of ideas from people who use the top of the line hd software and have been using it long enough to output a cohesive idea. We even have a crowd sourced website (idea scale) to challenge those ideas.

Avid certainly didn't invent the tiered software idea. Every company has it. Now have they in the past been out of touch with a lot of the customers? yes. Of course! And look at the stock now - Im pretty sure they know they fukced up. But if we listen to the people who just want it to burn they would see it sell for $50 and thats it because XXXX does this. Well i can tell you XXXX doesn't do all the stuff protools does. Nor does XXXX have the market penetration (one of the greatest value adds to getting into protools) that protools does. They make those demands from a position of ignorance.
Agreed 100% on people who just want Pro Tools to burn. They're lame and have nothing of value to add to the conversation IMO.

Point also taken that I'm not a business person, and not qualified to run a corporation. OTOH neither are you nor any of the other posters here. But that doesn't mean we can't give our opinions as customers on what we think they could do to improve their business. That's the whole point of this thread is it not.

Even people who are technically qualified to run business don't necessarily do it well. CEOs of failing companies prove that ever day. So their opinions shouldn't be taken as gospel either.

This isn't rocket science man. Either Avid competes for all DAW users, or they take the risks of trying to sell only expensive pro products to a small high-end customer base.

And I didn't "whip up plans". I simply described the business model of the competition, at least how I see it.
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Old 27th April 2014
  #539
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
They've been "swirling the bowl" for well over a decade. What's changed?
Nothing--that's the whole problem
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Old 27th April 2014
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFunk View Post
Nothing--that's the whole problem
And yet.....they're still "swirling" or at least that what some say. Any reason to see the status quo changing over the next decade? While some say demise is only a blink away, the historian could argue no - status quo will continue....
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