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Slate Digital VCC AAX 64Bit Delay
Old 12th October 2013
  #1
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Antagonist's Avatar
Slate Digital VCC AAX 64Bit Delay

First off, I've always been and still am an avid supporter of Steven & his team. Their plugins are top notch, and I've had pretty much every one of them since release. I don't want this to turn into a bashing thread about Slate. I am however very disappointed with the extended delay of 64bit AAX on VCC.

I can suffer with FGX not being ported yet because I usually use it in 2track mastering sessions that don't necessarily need 64bit. Also being a UAD user, I tend to use Ampex/Studer instead of VTM. But VCC has a slot in almost every project I mix.

I've been waiting to upgrade to PT11 due mainly to UAD & Slate's delays. I have 32GB ram, and I can't wait to unlock that power during large mix sessions alongside my UAD chips.

After getting my email yesterday regarding the VBC upgrade to AAX 64bit I was pleased. BUT then I read the long explanation Steven included and it looks like VCC is ATLEAST 90 days out at minimum.

So looks like the ONE plugin I use the most (VCC), is the one that's going to take the longest to port to AAX 64.

IMHO it was my understanding that all of these developers had ample time & assistance from Avid to get ready for the PT11 AAX 64bit switch. ***I can appreciate that most are offering free upgrades once they are ported, but that's still no excuse. I was a bit further disturbed reading that Slate will be announcing more new plugins at AES. I understand a business model needs new products, but not at the expense of delaying updates to legacy products that cannot be replaced. The only way a new product should come out before 64bit AAX is if the new product can replace VCC/FGX/VTM or any of the others that haven't been ported yet.

I have my fingers crossed that UA get's things done soon. If that happens I honestly feel I'm going to have to look for an alternative to VCC and that's disheartening. I love VCC & what it's done for ITB mixing, but I really don't want to wait until 2014 to work on 64bit Pro Tools.

I admit I'm not a programmer, but I'd assume code is code, and it shouldn't be anymore difficult to port one plugin than the next. Especially multiple plugins from the same developer.

My 2 cents.
Old 13th October 2013
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antagonist View Post
I admit I'm not a programmer, but I'd assume code is code, and it shouldn't be anymore difficult to port one plugin than the next. Especially multiple plugins from the same developer.
I'm not a programmer either, but my understanding is VCC's communication between plugin instances (for grouping functionality etc) adds significantly to the complexity. My guess is that Slate has a smaller team working on the transition for him than Waves did but that's purely a guess.
Old 13th October 2013
  #3
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doom64's Avatar
Your assumptions are incorrect which is why you've posted this moan.

32GB of RAM? Must be nice...

SD's official statement (from their email):

"VCC - This is a very difficult port due to the complex communication system and because we are fixing some internal issues, but we have some ideas that will help speed the process up quite a bit. We will be implementing these ideas next week. We know how many of you rely on this plugin, and we are doing everything possible to expedite the 64bit AAX delivery."

A car gets you from point A to point B, correct? And so does an airplane? However due to their methods of transportation (one on the roads, the other on a runway and in the air) they have different design challenges. That's what coding is like...and Avid apparently did not make it easy for some developers. Imagine people who can engineer cars trying to figure out how to engineer an airplane.

Why blame Avid? They said AAX DSP would be easy to implement once AAX Native code is written. That ended up being baloney...they've lost credibility in my mind. Plus the lack of AAX plugins (vs. other formats) is telling as AAX came out almost 2 years ago.

Quote:
I was a bit further disturbed reading that Slate will be announcing more new plugins at AES. I understand a business model needs new products, but not at the expense of delaying updates to legacy products that cannot be replaced. The only way a new product should come out before 64bit AAX is if the new product can replace VCC/FGX/VTM or any of the others that haven't been ported yet.
Sorry but you get what you pay for. You purchased a product that supported certain platforms and operating systems. Was there anything in the product literature that guaranteed platform or operating system updates? Software becomes outdated...that's the name of the game. For a business to stay in business they need to put out new products because Steven has this "give it away for free" mentality.

I honestly wish Slate would make a poll on Facebook and ask people if they'd rather pay for platform ports that will come out faster or wait longer for free. If they started charging for these upgrades (like Waves does through WUP) they could hire more programmers. Or at least pay the current programmers more so they can work overtime more often. Free is great which is why I'm not complaining but the demand for ports seems so great that having more funding on hand may help move things along faster.

Fast good cheap...pick two. Since the upgrades are cheap (free) and good don't expect them to be made fast.
Old 13th October 2013
  #4
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Antagonist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Your assumptions are incorrect which is why you've posted this moan.

32GB of RAM? Must be nice...


Sorry but you get what you pay for. You purchased a product that supported certain platforms and operating systems. Was there anything in the product literature that guaranteed platform or operating system updates? Software becomes outdated...that's the name of the game. For a business to stay in business they need to put out new products because Steven has this "give it away for free" mentality.
Yes 32GB Ram?

I can see your viewpoints, and honestly even agree with some of them... BUT Slate (As well as many other companies) have been promising an AAX 64Bit port for free since Avid first announced PT11. I empathize that this may be a daunting task, but I seriously don't understand how it can take another 3+ months UNLESS they either don't have enough resources, or those resources are dedicated to developing something else.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (Not being a developer) but something also would tell me that plugin manufacturers got the news/info about 64bit AAX long before any of us did. Which would mean it's taken them even longer to adopt/adapt/recode.

I would think the oldest code (VCC) would be the one they're most familiar with, and even if it's not as "optimized" shouldn't be THAT much more difficult to port.

IMHO if Slate would have released the Raven MTi and said it includes VCC/VTM/VBC that all work seamlessly with AAX 64bit Pro Tools 11, it would be the biggest selling thing on the market right now.
Old 16th October 2013
  #5
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Upset that Slate has new plugins in the pipeline before AAX 64? If every developer stopped everything they were doing to port AAX and didn't work on new stuff, they'd be out of business. Observations. A) I don't see any true professionals complaining about Slate timelines. Why? They aren't on PT11 yet if they decided their Slate plugins are vital to their work; they're getting the same work done on PT10 as they have been. Yes, the PT11 day will come, and it will be nice. B) People who actually get upset enough to rant and question a developer's business model because they don't personally agree don't seem to care if the plugins are ported properly or work as they should, they just want to be able to launch PT11 and load spiffy plugins in their bedroom like their friend does. See A).
Old 16th October 2013
  #6
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Ha! I thought this was going to be about a delay, as in echo. I guess I skimmed over the VCC. The first thing I thought was: man, this is going make it even longer before they update VCC, etc. OK, now I'll read the thread.

EDIT: Read. Look, people have the right to complain about things where that's allowed. I guess complaining about complaining goes along with that, too. In most cases, I'd rather read the former without the latter, though.
Old 16th December 2013
  #7
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Your assumptions are incorrect which is why you've posted this moan.

32GB of RAM? Must be nice...

SD's official statement (from their email):

"VCC - This is a very difficult port due to the complex communication system and because we are fixing some internal issues, but we have some ideas that will help speed the process up quite a bit. We will be implementing these ideas next week. We know how many of you rely on this plugin, and we are doing everything possible to expedite the 64bit AAX delivery."

A car gets you from point A to point B, correct? And so does an airplane? However due to their methods of transportation (one on the roads, the other on a runway and in the air) they have different design challenges. That's what coding is like...and Avid apparently did not make it easy for some developers. Imagine people who can engineer cars trying to figure out how to engineer an airplane.

Why blame Avid? They said AAX DSP would be easy to implement once AAX Native code is written. That ended up being baloney...they've lost credibility in my mind. Plus the lack of AAX plugins (vs. other formats) is telling as AAX came out almost 2 years ago.



Sorry but you get what you pay for. You purchased a product that supported certain platforms and operating systems. Was there anything in the product literature that guaranteed platform or operating system updates? Software becomes outdated...that's the name of the game. For a business to stay in business they need to put out new products because Steven has this "give it away for free" mentality.

I honestly wish Slate would make a poll on Facebook and ask people if they'd rather pay for platform ports that will come out faster or wait longer for free. If they started charging for these upgrades (like Waves does through WUP) they could hire more programmers. Or at least pay the current programmers more so they can work overtime more often. Free is great which is why I'm not complaining but the demand for ports seems so great that having more funding on hand may help move things along faster.

Fast good cheap...pick two. Since the upgrades are cheap (free) and good don't expect them to be made fast.

People complain about the WUP fees but honestly I think they're fair for exactly the reasons you outline here.

I have more of a problem with UAD and AVID external DSP cards going out of date since replacing them is extremely expensive by comparison to paying an upgrade fee every few years.
Old 18th December 2013
  #8
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Billy Buck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I have more of a problem with UAD and AVID external DSP cards going out of date since replacing them is extremely expensive by comparison to paying an upgrade fee every few years.
Timing is everything. If you waited 5 years to sell your old UAD-1 cards it can be more expensive to upgrade. But even in recent years UA has offered numerous UAD-1 to UAD-2 upgrade promos. Quite generous when you think some cards are over a decade old. I had a (4) UAD-1 card system back in 2008. Within weeks of the UAD-2 announcement I sold (3) of my cards on ebay and netted $725. I parleyed that into a new UAD-2 QUAD for $1375 (street sale price at the time). UA was giving out extra plug-ins vouchers for early UAD-2 adopters upgrading from UAD-1 and I got a total of $300 worth of vouchers too! Upgrading all my licensed UAD-1 plug-ins (35+) to UAD-2 standard was free as well (the UAD-1 plug-ins are based on the MPACT2 chip and the UAD-2 on SHARC DSP's and hence different code). The UAD-2 QUAD cost me about $350 net and I quadrupled my DSP, increased performance and stability, got access to the latest killer UAD-2 plug-ins and ultimately a free upgrade to x64. Instead of (4) UAD-1 cards occupying all of my PCI slots I just needed a single slot for my UAD-2 QUAD.

About 18 months ago UA had another promo (get a $200 rebate off any UAD-2 card for every UAD-1 card turned in to UA). So I finally let go of my last UAD-1 card and got $200 off a UAD-2 SOLO plus a $50 plug-in voucher. The SOLO cost me about $95 net.

A couple of years ago I purchased a brand new LA610 MKII on sale for $1375 during one of UA's numerous "buy a UA Channel Strip and get a free UAD-2 promo". So here I get a nice professional channel strip as a front end for my DAW, at a great price and UA throws in a free UAD-2 DUO. Thanks UA!

It is only "extremely expensive" for those that don't shop around and take advantage of the many promotions that go on every year. Right now if you are in the market for a professional channel strip, you can get a free UAD-2 QUAD with the purchase of a UA 6176 until Dec 31st. Hell, even if you did not want the UAD-2 QUAD, buy a new 6176 and sell the QUAD on ebay and use the proceeds to defray the cost of the channel strip.

I could go on and on, but UA continually offers ways to get UAD-2 cards for deeply discounted pricing to even free. When it comes to most companies, UA is actually pretty generous to their loyal customers. Probably a big reason why UAD plug-ins are more popular than ever with over 65,000 registered users.

Cheers,

Billy Buck
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