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BEHRINGER - Why the hate?
Old 10th May 2019
  #91
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
When faced with reasons for the thread title's question, it's popular 'counter' with something like "What does it mean for you as a musician anyway?". Ask instead "What does it mean for you as a human?", because we're all humans before gear craving musicians, and some humans still subscribe to values such as ethics, morality and decency (yeah, very quaint...).
I choose when to get my "human" side involved. Certainly not over some metal or plastic object that gets used once in a blue moon.

Quote:
- history of rip-offs of in production gear (Aphex, Mackie, EBTECH, IK...) and lawsuits and settlements
It's their business not mine. I don't give a rat's butt about it. There are 10 billion business in the world and half of them are suing each other all the time over some business matter. Somebody used someone's CPU, someone's used someone color on their shop window, someone was late with payment... I'm not getting anything out of worrying about their problems, they're all filthy rich one way or another. I don't want to turn into a pathetic emo fruit fly picketing a Godzilla. It's just profoundly stupid.

Quote:
- history of sub par quality (I've had more than enough of that - getting better, I keep hearing...)
We all have to start somewhere. Kia and Hyundai were butt of jokes for many years and look at them now.

Quote:
- unchecked continuous use of Gearslutz as a social/viral marketing and astroturfing platform
It's just business. If GS let them watch you or collect any data, it's between them. If you don't like being watched, load up your VPNs, anit-spyware and adblocks and everything you can throw to protect your privacy. It's your own responsibility.

Quote:
- marketing stunts, announcing/leaking vapour/future -ware to block/damage the market for others and create a big buzz for B
It's just business. They took some risks, they paid off, because people still buy their stuff. So it was a smart move in the end.

Quote:
- the infamous "The Minimoog is only $200 in parts", which spawned a B sycophant army with a strong anti Moog streak
Not sure what that was about, but sounds like some petty stupid small drama that noone with IQ of 60 or above should care about.

Quote:
- sending lawyers after GS member tonykara and DSI, when tonykara dared mention some of B's history
Can I read some more on this? Sounds interesting. There's gotta be more to the story than just bad company randomly attacking a poster on the internet. I meam B has had so much feces thrown on them daily for so many years, I wonder what prompted them to get hardcore with those guys. Not defending, just curious to know.

Quote:
- threatening with sending lawyers after other members if they do anything like what tonykara did, as well as similar threats elsewhere
Again, please elaborate. I'm a relatively new full-time GS user so I only heard this mentioned but never read the whole story.

Quote:
- the most ardent acolytes defending all of the above and literally denouncing ethics, morality and decency as irrelevancies
It's just material objects. If it's legal, I don't want to know any more about it. If it pisses some people off while being legal, again, I don't care, I don't want to know. Synths, phones, toilet brushes - they're all the same to me, just objects. I don't care about what goes on behind the scenes. I come, I pay $10 for one, I brush the s%it off my toilet, I leave. Never think about it.

Quote:
Before you all jump me, I've better get in a disclaimer: I'm just a messenger here, letting you know about the issues that has been of concern to various people, and I have nothing against cheap synths.
And before people jump me, disclaimer, I'm not a Behringer's transplant here.

I think we should create a new term: Behringer Derangement Syndrome. I think it would be appropriate.

BDS.
Old 10th May 2019
  #92
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuieve View Post
Why do you care about their business and legal issues? It's between them, you're not their owner, you're not even their employee. Why get emotional that has absolutely NOTHING to do with you?

If I can make music and have money left for food, all is right for me.

If you prefer to get all bent over all 7 billion people personal/business petty problems it's your choice.
I know why I care, the real question is why you don't........
Old 10th May 2019
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Ask instead "What does it mean for you as a human?".
This, 1000 times.
Old 11th May 2019
  #94
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar


While everybody in the electronic music sub forum is creaming their shorts over owning ‘tributes’ of iconic synths, this stuff is also happening:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJacobsen View Post
Hi all,

This is Alex Jacobsen with Auratone, grandson of the late Jack Wilson, the founder of Auratone and creator of the beloved 5C speaker. I'd like to help bring some clarity to this topic.

The Music Group/Behringer Auratone C5A and C50A are not related to us and our Auratone 5C in anyway. We have not sold nor licensed the brand. We filed a lawsuit against Music Group in US District Court for trademark infringement, trade dress infringement, passing off, and false association of origin. The case is pending and we anticipate the trial occurring sometime next year.

There is also pending ligation in Europe in the EUIPO, and a decision in that case is imminent. All of these cases are of public record.

Auratone has been a family business for over 50 years, and we continue to operate as one, the way Jack would have wanted it. We look to carry on his legacy and are committed to protecting that.

Alex
Is it me or did Behringer licence the Auratone name?

Awaiting the temporarily embarrassed millionaires/free market apologists on here to explain this away.



I remember when musicians were cool and on the side of the small guys.
Old 11th May 2019
  #95
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post


While everybody in the electronic music sub forum is creaming their shorts over owning ‘tributes’ of iconic synths, this stuff is also happening:



Is it me or did Behringer licence the Auratone name?

Awaiting the temporarily embarrassed millionaires/free market apologists on here to explain this away.



I remember when musicians were cool and on the side of the small guys.
It's between them. Do I care that B did it? Not one bit. Will it stop me from buying their gear? Never.

I am confused by Auratone pricing though. Passives were $369 for a pair (and that's the reason Behritones appeared I assume) and active $469. When a company makes a product and get ubersupergreedy that's what happens. Sorry, Auratone, but those crapcubes should never cost more than $200/pair. If you play greedy you deserve to get ripped off.

Whether you win or not in court, I don't care. I have a pair of used original Auratones which I paid $200 for, but honestly... even that is too much for them. I'd never ever consider that a good price for what they are. You asking $500 for a pair... because it's unique product, not because it's any good. I don't give a rats butt about this whole B thing. You had it coming. You're not better than those pharm companies asking $10,000/pill cause sick people have no choice.

It's pretty DUMB of B to use Auratone name on the cubes, why didn't they stick with Behritones or something else (like Ariatones, something similar), but I guess their legal team felt they had a chance. Lets see how this turns out.

Zero sympathy to either company, but in for entertainment.

EDIT: actually I just changed my mind. I'm with B on this one. Just for the giggles. F... greedy companies. You want to charge 10x just for your name? Ok, it's your right. But then fun things happen. And I love fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
I remember when musicians were cool and on the side of the small guys.
You mean the times when "small guys" would took the last hard-earned dollar from poor musicians for their "cool" gear?

The times when musicians were sheep, the followers, the blind supporters?

Sure, I'm sure those were the good times. For the gear companies. I bet every CEO was very grateful to every musician who made his yachts, %hores and cocaine parties so affordable.

These days people are much smarter though. Having choice is good.
Old 12th May 2019
  #96
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuieve View Post
These days people are much smarter though. Having choice is good.
Not really. But some people's integrity is for sale very cheap. Thanks for letting everyone know which one you are.
Old 12th May 2019
  #97
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Not really. But some people's integrity is for sale very cheap. Thanks for letting everyone know which one you are.
Integrity.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post


While everybody in the electronic music sub forum is creaming their shorts over owning ‘tributes’ of iconic synths, this stuff is also happening:
The fact that Uli sued users on this forum should have earned him a permanent ban from Gearslutz instead he's turned this place into non stop advertisement and I'm f*cking sick of seeing it.

Also tried out the neutron and the D. ****e build quality on both, not like I will hand that company a single cent of my money.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #99
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj.anti.matter View Post
The fact that Uli sued users on this forum should have earned him a permanent ban from Gearslutz instead he's turned this place into non stop advertisement and I'm f*cking sick of seeing it.
Another fact is that GS is a privately held business. "Fairness" doesn't matter here. If you're sick of seeing something here, stop looking.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #100
Gear Guru
Believe me if their lawyers could have found a way to sue GS as an entity they would have. Nuclear winter is a legal maxim. If there's even a whiff of money, they will hunt it down. I don't know if you guys have ever been involved in a lawsuit, but it's nasty, expensive, and will take years off your life. Thank God I never contributed to the thread, that would be a very bad day to be named in a punitive lawyers fishing expedition...... If you condone that behavior you are contributing to it. Simple as that......
Old 4 weeks ago
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Another fact is that GS is a privately held business. "Fairness" doesn't matter here. If you're sick of seeing something here, stop looking.
And this kind of attitude is why I've relocated to r/synthesizers on reddit.

Last edited by dj.anti.matter; 4 weeks ago at 03:36 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Believe me if their lawyers could have found a way to sue GS as an entity they would have. Nuclear winter is a legal maxim. If there's even a whiff of money, they will hunt it down. I don't know if you guys have ever been involved in a lawsuit, but it's nasty, expensive, and will take years off your life. Thank God I never contributed to the thread, that would be a very bad day to be named in a punitive lawyers fishing expedition...... If you condone that behavior you are contributing to it. Simple as that......
I wouldn't put it past them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #103
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar
What’s with with TC Electronics now becoming another clone brand? Why acquire this brand, but then utilize it to ship things like that crappy clone of a Juno chorus? And then start making clones of recent IK Multimedia hardware?

If I were cynical (which I’m not) I’d guess that this is a move to distance Behringer’s personal family name from the crappy clones (by moving production of those across to another brand entity) and move the family named business towards becoming a beloved name in ‘tributes’ of classic synths.

Makes sense.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #104
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
What’s with with TC Electronics now becoming another clone brand? Why acquire this brand, but then utilize it to ship things like that crappy clone of a Juno chorus? And then start making clones of recent IK Multimedia hardware?

If I were cynical (which I’m not) I’d guess that this is a move to distance Behringer’s personal family name from the crappy clones (by moving production of those across to another brand entity) and move the family named business towards becoming a beloved name in ‘tributes’ of classic synths.

Makes sense.
It's not a question of being cynical, it's just a question of analyzing the choices of a company with detachement, trying to find a rationale behind those choices. Let's face it, sueing GS members, trying to sue a Twitter user and threatening legal action against a major news site are potentially catastrophic moves for a company.
The reaction has been quite muted here on GS, but on other forums the reactions left me impressed. Those things do not go away fast and in my opinion there are good chances the image of the company has been tarnished in a lasting way.
Under a business perspective, acquiring other brands can be a move to capture other areas of the market, to quickly enlarge a company and to profit from economies of scale. There are good strategic reasons to buy out companies. On the other hand, in this specific case I can't exclude there is some sort of "damage control" strategy involved. Some people are extremely annoyed by the behaviour of Music Group and are moving away from their products.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #105
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEK3 View Post
It's not a question of being cynical, it's just a question of analyzing the choices of a company with detachement, trying to find a rationale behind those choices. Let's face it, sueing GS members, trying to sue a Twitter user and threatening legal action against a major news site are potentially catastrophic moves for a company.
The reaction has been quite muted here on GS, but on other forums the reactions left me impressed. Those things do not go away fast and in my opinion there are good chances the image of the company has been tarnished in a lasting way.
Under a business perspective, acquiring other brands can be a move to capture other areas of the market, to quickly enlarge a company and to profit from economies of scale. There are good strategic reasons to buy out companies. On the other hand, in this specific case I can't exclude there is some sort of "damage control" strategy involved. Some people are extremely annoyed by the behaviour of Music Group and are moving away from their products.

Great point! Funny the muted response on GS where a thread about weed in the studio will morph into an argument about Scientology..... Combative group on here, but not when it comes to saving money at the expense of ethics......

Really tired of people justifying cheating and bullying under the mantle of doing good business.... Manufacturers and developers on here get crucified for late releases and GUI design in new product threads, and truly reprehensible behavior is just business as usual.....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Great point! Funny the muted response on GS where a thread about weed in the studio will morph into an argument about Scientology..... Combative group on here, but not when it comes to saving money at the expense of ethics......

Really tired of people justifying cheating and bullying under the mantle of doing good business.... Manufacturers and developers on here get crucified for late releases and GUI design in new product threads, and truly reprehensible behavior is just business as usual.....
Yeah, I'm not sure how this "punish the innovators for bugs but praise the imitator for barely realized products" mindset became the norm in the Electronic Music Instruments section.

I also find it ridiculous that the DS-80 thread has 30+ pages whilst the Yamaha reissue thread barely has 12 pages....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #107
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj.anti.matter View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure how this "punish the innovators for bugs but praise the imitator for barely realized products" mindset became the norm in the Electronic Music Instruments section.

I also find it ridiculous that the DS-80 thread has 30+ pages whilst the Yamaha reissue thread barely has 12 pages....
Depressingly money, marketing, and a disposable mindset.....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #108
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Depressingly money, marketing, and a disposable mindset.....
RE the "disposable" part: In some GS thread, Uli talked about the zillions of sales of some product of his. I asked him how many of those sales were to repeat buyers after their first one broke. I don't think he replied.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #109
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj.anti.matter View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure how this "punish the innovators for bugs but praise the imitator for barely realized products" mindset became the norm in the Electronic Music Instruments section.
Exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj.anti.matter View Post
I also find it ridiculous that the DS-80 thread has 30+ pages whilst the Yamaha reissue thread barely has 12 pages....
I noticed the same, very strange IMO, even stranger if I consider the level of quality and innovation Yamaha is able to deliver when it decides to release a synth.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Subverter's Avatar
 

Yeah the thing that bothers me the most is probably this disruptive marketing BS.
Anytime there's any kind of trade show guess what? Some 'leak' of a potential product that probably won't see the light of day for another couple of years pops up, to try and diminish the enthusiasm around other manufacturers products.

Look what we just bought!!! We might make a clone! ****off!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #111
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj.anti.matter View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure how this "punish the innovators for bugs but praise the imitator for barely realized products" mindset became the norm in the Electronic Music Instruments section.

I also find it ridiculous that the DS-80 thread has 30+ pages whilst the Yamaha reissue thread barely has 12 pages....
Yeah, that’s pretty gross. The truth is being revealed - People in the Electronic forum pretend that they would like a re-issue from the original company, but when given the choice, what they really want is a cheap copy cat.

Entitled middle aged dudes with limited budgets in suburban man caves attempting to re-create the sounds of their youth on pretend versions of classic synths.

I guess it’s just the same deal as the guitar market has been forever.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #112
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Yeah, that’s pretty gross. The truth is being revealed - People in the Electronic forum pretend that they would like a re-issue from the original company, but when given the choice, what they really want is a cheap copy cat.

Entitled middle aged dudes with limited budgets in suburban man caves attempting to re-create the sounds of their youth on pretend versions of classic synths.

I guess it’s just the same deal as the guitar market has been forever.

The recent s***storm in the June-60 thread is perfect evidence of that.
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