The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Won't computers produce a convincing analog sound someday?
Old 31st May 2019
  #691
Here for the gear
 

Year by year we are slowly getting there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NBJuQVtPwA
Old 2nd June 2019
  #692
Lives for gear
 
ignorantape's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
None of which shows digital having mojo/viscerality/feel as a medium. It may sound "fine, neutral/accurate". I personally don't give a flying f*ck about any of those things if as a medium it doesn't have mojo.
So mojo = opinion?
Old 2nd June 2019
  #693
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignorantape View Post
So mojo = opinion?
No
Old 2nd June 2019
  #694
Lives for gear
 

For me, gear has no mojo. None of it. Pictures of gear = yes, partially. Kinda like enjoying to look at a vintage car.
But in daily music life, people can create mojo, gear can't.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #695
Lives for gear
 
ignorantape's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
No
So how do you measure this 'mojo', how do you even know it exists?

Seeing the discussion in this thread, what you define as mojo is not what others define as mojo, ergo, opinion.
Old 8th July 2019
  #696
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignorantape View Post
So how do you measure this 'mojo', how do you even know it exists?

Seeing the discussion in this thread, what you define as mojo is not what others define as mojo, ergo, opinion.
Who said you can measure it? How do I know you exist?
Old 9th July 2019
  #697
Lives for gear
 
ignorantape's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Who said you can measure it? How do I know you exist?
My existence can be independently verified should we both have the time and inclination. Mojo is a noun based on superstition, big difference.
Old 9th July 2019
  #698
Gear Addict
 

If someone tells me they hear voices, I have no reason not to believe them.

Zip
Old 9th July 2019
  #699
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignorantape View Post
My existence can be independently verified should we both have the time and inclination. Mojo is a noun based on superstition, big difference.
You think I'm the only person who hears mojo in tape? I'm not. There are many other people who will independently verify it. The reality is you can't prove the existence of anything outside our perception.

Tape has mojo. Or je-ne-sais-quoi as the French might say. "I do not know what."

It doesn't matter one bit if the propellerheads twitch because they can't measure it.
Old 9th July 2019
  #700
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

A few years ago someone posted two files, one analog, one digital and asked which was which. Almost everyone got it wrong, including myself, who grew up recording in analog studios all over the world.

Just sayin'...

TH
Old 10th July 2019
  #701
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
A few years ago someone posted two files, one analog, one digital and asked which was which. Almost everyone got it wrong, including myself, who grew up recording in analog studios all over the world.

Just sayin'...

TH
If it was a file then both would have been digital.
Old 10th July 2019
  #702
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
If it was a file then both would have been digital.

What's the alternative? Playing a tape back vs a file? Never mind that people didn't play tapes back (cassettes?) they heard analog via RECORDS...so...not sure how one could accomplish any kind of comparison without reducing to files. Or file vs vinyl, introducing a whole new can of worms.

At any rate the difference between the "files" was very noticeable.

That said, I do remember when the first Sony Pro Dat machine came out we did a mix to it, and to the Studer, and the Studer in fact we all preferred the Studer.
Old 10th July 2019
  #703
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
What's the alternative? Playing a tape back vs a file? Never mind that people didn't play tapes back (cassettes?) they heard analog via RECORDS...so...not sure how one could accomplish any kind of comparison without reducing to files. Or file vs vinyl, introducing a whole new can of worms.

At any rate the difference between the "files" was very noticeable.

That said, I do remember when the first Sony Pro Dat machine came out we did a mix to it, and to the Studer, and the Studer in fact we all preferred the Studer.
People couldn't test it over the net, but yes, a tape verse a file would be the purest comparison, with no digital effects or conversions used for the tape mix.
Old 16th July 2019
  #704
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
People couldn't test it over the net, but yes, a tape verse a file would be the purest comparison, with no digital effects or conversions used for the tape mix.
Nobody listens to tape these days and more importantly the vast majority never did! Tape was a recording / mix / mastering medium, but the delivery was cassette or vinyl, and later CD.

If 'everyone' listens to digital these days and can't tell the difference between something recorded and mixed with tape versus using plugins / or which is which - both played back the way they normally would, then the difference is essentially of no consequence. It is meaningless outside of how the actual creators feel about it.
Old 16th July 2019
  #705
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Nobody listens to tape these days and more importantly the vast majority never did! Tape was a recording / mix / mastering medium, but the delivery was cassette or vinyl, and later CD.

If 'everyone' listens to digital these days and can't tell the difference between something recorded and mixed with tape versus using plugins / or which is which - both played back the way they normally would, then the difference is essentially of no consequence. It is meaningless outside of how the actual creators feel about it.
That may be true for most people (I personally only listen to vinyl) but the idea here was simply to test if people can tell the difference between a digital and an analogue mix. So one needs to eliminate anything that could introduce extra artifacts eg wow and flutter from vinyl or a loss in quality caused by a second 'conversion' during the cut or to another analogue medium such as cassette. If that can be demonstrated then there is a good argument for trying to fully preserve an analogue signal path.
Old 16th July 2019
  #706
Gear Guru
 

I understand. What I meant was that the relevant test is to record/mix analog and then transfer that as cleanly as possible to a digital format for auditioning. That's then compared to an ITB mix. It's irrelevant if people can hear the difference sitting in a studio listening back to an all analog path coming straight off of a 24-track 2 inch tape, because when would they ever consume music that way? The answer is 'never'. They'd always listen to that mix converted to digital.
Old 17th July 2019
  #707
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
Early analog to digital converters weren't so great. The same was true with digital to analog converters.

This isn't the early 1980s anymore though and I honestly can't believe this argument is still taking place.

Uncompressed/lossless digital, be it the compact disc or high resolution 24-bit/48 kHz and higher FLAC files are the closest to the master recordings that consumers can get. Period.

Vinyl has issues. Cassettes have issues. A reel to reel copy has its issues. Digital (again, uncompressed or lossless not MP3/AAC/Opus/etc.) has the least amount of issues. Period.

Heck, digital cables were a godsend back in the day. ADAT/Toslink, RCA Coax or nowadays MADI (AES10) were huge advancements in audio technology.

Digital was the best thing to happen to high fidelity audio reproduction. The people who disagree did not live through the frustrations of analog formats. Perhaps they sound "better" than digital but they do not sound as accurate.
Old 17th July 2019
  #708
Gear Addict
 

The last time I tracked to tape was 20+ years ago. I brought my laptop, PCI chassis, and 24 input interface into the studio. The laptop got the same signals as the tape. The engineer made non-stop jokes about my "toy".

First thing the band noticed was we could keep every take on the computer. Because tape was so expensive we were only keeping takes on the tape that we knew were keepers.

When it came time to play back we set the system up to switch between the computer playback and tape playback.

The only way we could tell the difference was the tape hiss between takes.

Then the engineer realized the computer was leaving and we'd be doing the overdubs outside his studio.

In the '80s in my studio we had an Otari mastering deck. I bought a Toshiba VCR with a PCM converter. RCA jacks. 14 bit recording. We A/B'd it to the Otari and never used the Otari again.

YMMV.

Dave
Old 17th July 2019
  #709
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

"The people who disagree did not live through the frustrations of analog formats. Perhaps they sound "better" than digital but they do not sound as accurate."

Well the people who prefer analog are not saying it is more accurate, they prefer the sound.

It is pretty clear why in some cases, I thought this video where it plays the source recorded via digital verses the J37, though the video is actually about tape plug ins vs tape. At one point he plays the unprocessed track (s) as captured via DAW vs the tape. It is pretty obvious which one sounds better, at least to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzQZ...ktop#searching
Old 19th July 2019
  #710
Gear Addict
 
TexasCat's Avatar
 

I do not miss this. I hated tape and was glad to see it die!

Old 19th July 2019
  #711
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
I do not miss this. I hated tape and was glad to see it die!

LOL I know, I had to transfer some tape to PT the other day off an old machine. I was cursing just threading the damn thing

But I can't argue with the sound.
Old 31st July 2019
  #712
AS i type this now, i think software has surpassed hardware in many many ways, but not all. but to the point of where way more doors open.

DF
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump