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Avid postpones Q4 earnings call "indefinitely," accounting under investigation Audio Interfaces
Old 17th November 2018
  #1891
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm a musician - not a financial advisor. I'm just offering my perspective and my opinion. Same as you and yours.

I've been hearing from the experts since the turn of the century (and in fact, before) that Digi / Avid is doomed, behind the times, financially insolvent, and over rated. Ad nauseum. Over and over and over. Like a never ending drone.

And yet, they continue on. Net losses, stock cratering, new management be damned.

So who is right and who is wrong here. I think almost all the naysayers would have had them in the grave LONG ago. This thread alone has been going just shy of 6 years and every quarter you wake it back up with the continued bad news. That's a long time in the software industry.

And yet..... they are still doing what they do.

I find it all a bit amusing. You guys are SO adamant in your assessments of their ill health. And I don't argue that. I FOR SURE couldn't run my business the way they run theirs and survive.

BUT - they do survive.

How? I have no idea. Maybe they get a do-over by being able to re-write the "rules" that apply to everyone else.

How long will they last? Longer than you suspect for sure. Probably not as long as I suspect.

The fact is, they are still in business, still doing what they do. I don't think that even you could argue that. I'm sorry if that annoys you. It's not my intent to frustrate you. Just to offer a differing real world non-financial expert opinion.
Its hip/cool to bash avid. Some people just want to revel in failures of other companies and always be right. It's why you have a 6 year+ thread like this. Other people just go on with life and do their own thing, avid users or not.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1892
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
There's no room for passion in *this* topic. Nor bias. Anyone wishing for success or ill will for Avid isn't discussing the current health of the company, they're injecting their personal feelings and hoping to sway the opinions of others, but that's not how financials work. Those who support Avid suggest that any negative comments are just part of a personal agenda, and those who do not support Avid suggest that any positive comments are just part of a personal agenda. It's a pointless discussion outside of our own heads because we feel what we feel. At least with the financials we're discussing something relevant, but it would be nice if the zealous, vitriolic comments would find another thread.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1893
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm a musician - not a financial advisor. .
One who has been claiming 'people' are saying things... then can't back it up with specific examples when asked.

And one who very specifically made predictions - vague, ethereal ones, but nevertheless - that Avid would "come out on top", and again, when asked specifically to define the meaning of your words and a timeframe... you whiffed.

You don't need to be a financial advisor to post here, but if you're going to make claims about others or the company you shouldn't be surprised when asked to back them up.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1894
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
Its hip/cool to bash avid.
Yeah, it's dope, it's lit, it's what all the kool cids are doing.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1895
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
One who has been claiming 'people' are saying things... then can't back it up with specific examples when asked.

And one who very specifically made predictions - vague, ethereal ones, but nevertheless - that Avid would "come out on top", and again, when asked specifically to define the meaning of your words and a timeframe... you whiffed.

You don't need to be a financial advisor to post here, but if you're going to make claims about others or the company you shouldn't be surprised when asked to back them up.

You're a trip. My thoughts were never touted as predictions, and were never meant to be taken as "fact". Only as my opinion. Why not put me on "block or ignore" or whatever it's called. I'm happy to do the same for you. Cheers,
Old 18th November 2018
  #1896
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're a trip. My thoughts were never touted as predictions, and were never meant to be taken as "fact". Only as my opinion.
Yes Bill, and I asked you to explain your opinion - if in the face of continued decreasing sales and increasing losses you still thought Avid would "come out on top" - and to explain what that meant and what time-frame you talking about.

Similarly, you opined that 'people' were claiming Avid was "doomed to crater" yet when asked who here was doing that you got defensive and tried tapdancing from it, merely repeating you'd heard 'people' saying it.

come on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Why not put me on "block or ignore" or whatever it's called.
Why not back up your assertions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm happy to do the same for you. Cheers,
You can do whatever you want, Bill. Be aware of course that if you make unsupported claims, people may reply to you even if you can't see those replies.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1897
Gear Nut
 

Do people here make music anymore or do they just sit around all day arguing on the internet about the financials of a company for 6 years, that makes a product they dont use?
Old 18th November 2018
  #1898
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
Yes Bill, and I asked you to explain your opinion - if in the face of continued decreasing sales and increasing losses you still thought Avid would "come out on top" - and to explain what that meant and what time-frame you talking about.

Similarly, you opined that 'people' were claiming Avid was "doomed to crater" yet when asked who here was doing that you got defensive and tried tapdancing from it, merely repeating you'd heard 'people' saying it.

come on.



Why not back up your assertions?



You can do whatever you want, Bill. Be aware of course that if you make unsupported claims, people may reply to you even if you can't see those replies.
You're taking this way to personal. I've had people tell me that AVID was doomed long before this thread was started. People in Japan when I worked there for a season, people at studio's in LA. People I've met on the road. People I've conversed with on the internet. Must I call them out by name? Do I need a signed affidavit? Must I go back and comb over internet conversations and quote them. Contact friends to ask what their buddy's name was who didn't like AVID?

Does my word mean nothing or do I have to back up everything I say with empirical evidence? How have I not backed up my opinion? How does one even back up their opinion? Opinion is not fact. It's opinion. It's accumulated and grown by personal experience. Opinion shouldn't need to be verifiable, immutable and independently audited to be seen as a valid.

I cannot explain how Avid maintains. I can comment on the FACT that it DOES maintain. Or at least has as of 5:24PM Pacific Standard time. Call it witchcraft, creative accounting, a cat with 9 lives, whatever you want. But you cannot deny that it's software is still being creatively used in the majority (arguably) of studio's in LA and elsewhere.

Your inflexible and confrontative attitude is tedious. Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK? My "unsupported claims" are just opinion. I didn't put them up as verified financial facts, and I have not disputed your financial "facts" that you put up. Never once. Why would I? I assume they are accurate.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1899
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're taking this way to personal. I've had people tell me that AVID was doomed long before this thread was started. People in Japan when I worked there for a season, people at studio's in LA. People I've met on the road. People I've conversed with on the internet. Must I call them out by name? Do I need a signed affidavit? Must I go back and comb over internet conversations and quote them. Contact friends to ask what their buddy's name was who didn't like AVID?

Does my word mean nothing or do I have to back up everything I say with empirical evidence? How have I not backed up my opinion? How does one even back up their opinion? Opinion is not fact. It's opinion. It's accumulated and grown by personal experience. Opinion shouldn't need to be verifiable, immutable and independently audited to be seen as a valid.

I cannot explain how Avid maintains. I can comment on the FACT that it DOES maintain. Or at least has as of 5:24PM Pacific Standard time. Call it witchcraft, creative accounting, a cat with 9 lives, whatever you want. But you cannot deny that it's software is still being creatively used in the majority (arguably) of studio's in LA and elsewhere.

Your inflexible and confrontative attitude is tedious. Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK? My "unsupported claims" are just opinion. I didn't put them up as verified financial facts, and I have not disputed your financial "facts" that you put up. Never once. Why would I? I assume they are accurate.
Ya all the negativity is exhausting. Dont like pro tools? Ok cool use something else. Dont like avid's financials? Ok cool buy stock in another company. Dont feel confident about their future? Ok cool buy different products. You can sit around all day and be mad about Avids management, or you can make some music and mind your own finances. You're certainly not going to save anyone or anything by posting in this thread.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1900
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're taking this way to personal.
You're the one recommending that I block you and then say you are "happy" to do the same ... and yet I'm the one taking it too personally? Pretty funny, Bill.

Please go ahead and block me since you're so 'happy' to. I've found that most people who go on and on about that actually don't have the self-control to do it (or to not reply), but who knows, there's a first for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Does my word mean nothing
When you make a claim you need to be willing to back it up... or else understand that someone might call you on it. In this case you made a few claims, none of which you've dared support or explain. (shrug)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK?
There's no 'even' in this Bill. You're taking it to (sic) personal.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1901
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
You're the one recommending that I block you and then say you are "happy" to do the same ... and yet I'm the one taking it too personally? Pretty funny, Bill.

Please go ahead and block me since you're so 'happy' to. I've found that most people who go on and on about that actually don't have the self-control to do it (or to not reply), but who knows, there's a first for everything.



When you make a claim you need to be willing to back it up... or else understand that someone might call you on it. In this case you made a few claims, none of which you've dared support or explain. (shrug)



There's no 'even' in this Bill. You're taking it to (sic) personal.
No one needs to back up their opinions, validate their opinions, or verify their work experience for you. You're just some random guy on a message board. While this thread continues its horse beating, many people are, right now, making music with pro tools, which includes hit records. Many people are using different DAWs. And frankly, they dont care about some random guy on the internets opinion about Avid, nor do they probably want to waste their time proving decades of experience to internet warriors with no public credentials.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1902
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
frankly, they dont care about some random guy on the internets opinion about Avid
No one forced Bill to come here and post for many months in this thread defending Avid, or forced him to make claims, or made him make predictions. And there's no rule that anyone can make any claims or predictions and not be asked about them. People who choose to make public forum statements, opinions, and claims shouldn't be surprised to be replied to about them, to asked about them, to be asked support claims, or be held to account for them. Saying you don't care that someone has called out out for claims then following it up by suggesting they stop posting and block you instead is just plain weird.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1903
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
No one forced Bill to come here and post for many months in this thread defending Avid, or forced him to make claims, or made him make predictions. And there's no rule that anyone can make any claims or predictions and not be asked about them. People who choose to make public forum statements, opinions, and claims shouldn't be surprised to be replied to about them, to asked about them, to be asked support claims, or be held to account for them. Saying you don't care that someone has called out out for claims then following it up by suggesting they stop posting and block you instead is just plain weird.
Dr Bill didn't come here to "make claims" or "predictions", he's merely stating the obvious: that aside from a number of people who seem to wish for Avid's demise over the six years this thread's been going, it hasn't happened. Bill's also a veteran in the industry, so while he sees what's on the "inside" in the world of production (which is a lot of PT rigs) - he's made no such claims of insider knowledge of Avid's inner workings, financial health or any other such thing. He's merely read the same thread you have and come to a different conclusion.

So people have read this thread and made up a bunch of opinions about what it all means, but you want to cherry pick a fight with someone whose opinions don't jibe with yours - you'd at least have credibility if you challenged everyone who's made claims and statements - many of which actually are based on fallacious reasoning. Yet they all get a pass from you - ask yourself why that is.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1904
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Bill did indeed claim that people said specific things, and I asked him who. He refused, time and time again, to back up his specific, non-obvious claim (yes, claim) with any examples. That's fine. I pointed that out - also fine. He also made a prediction at the beginning of the year and I asked him whether he still believed it, and if so what the parameters of his claim (yes claim) were. I didn't pick a fight with him - I'm not fighting - but he apparently got sufficiently bent out of shape to sniff that he wasn't upset but that I should not post to him in a public forum any more and he'd be 'happy' to block me. If he wants to block posts from me he's certainly entitled to it - as are you - but if I make claims I have a reasonable expectation that people may query me about them or dispute them, and the same goes for anyone else.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1905
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
Do people here make music anymore or do they just sit around all day arguing on the internet about the financials of a company for 6 years, that makes a product they dont use?
This made me laugh out loud! It just is so true!

My interest is purely academic, as Avid is an extreme example of a certain type of business practice. Also the fact that it does not fail is something I find fascinating!

It is not as interesting as the steady march of the German discounters Aldi and Lidl across Planet Earth, but then I'm an economist and we thrive on boring stuff like that!

I seriously fail to understand or sympathise with people getting emotionally wound up over some mid-sized tech company and its problems, but I hope for the sake of its many professional customers and staff that it continues to function and provide products to the market.
Old 13th April 2019
  #1906
Lives for gear
With a smile on my lips, I note that this thread has not been dug up (well, it has now!) since last year. You can't gloat over good results! There's no schadenfreude in a good Q4!

Since then, the share price has almost doubled, new CEO Rosica seems to be steadying the ship and it looks as if the madness of the past three management regimes is becoming a thing of the past.

I honestly believed that Avid was doomed and that the owners were prepared to put up with incompetence, arrogance and testosterone-fuelled policies such as the Orad acquisition ad infinitum. It seems they were not!

I have since spoken to (let's just say) a key player in this saga and they said "We got involved because I saw management make every mistake imaginable and then some mistakes I hadn't thought of and it still survived. I thought that if it can survive all that, just imagine what a great company this could become under proper management!"

I honestly thought they were mad, but I am happy to say that they have probably proven me wrong! OK, Avid ain't out of the woods yet and there is a great deal of damage to be repaired. Whilst Avid has been repeatedly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, packages like DaVinci-Resolve and Premier have been innovating furiously and Avid has some serious catching up to do.

I just hope that it is not too late!
Old 13th April 2019
  #1907
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!! Heresy!
Old 13th April 2019
  #1908
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Waiting for an announcement that Apple acquired Pro Tools and will release a new Logic Tools music software soon.
Maybe BandLab will pick up Pro Tools... and then give it away for free. (as in Cakewalk)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1909
Lives for gear
 
JSt0rm's Avatar
they arnet out of the wods yet. Stock is up because people are betting it will be good times. and they may be. Meanwhile we are 5 months without an update in a system that was supposed to get monthly updates.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1910
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doom64's Avatar
I want Avid to survive. I also want them to have the best DAW on the marketplace.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1911
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
I want Avid to survive. I also want them to have the best DAW on the marketplace.
Well - if Tiger Woods can do it....
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