The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Avid postpones Q4 earnings call "indefinitely," accounting under investigation
Old 17th November 2018
  #1891
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm a musician - not a financial advisor. I'm just offering my perspective and my opinion. Same as you and yours.

I've been hearing from the experts since the turn of the century (and in fact, before) that Digi / Avid is doomed, behind the times, financially insolvent, and over rated. Ad nauseum. Over and over and over. Like a never ending drone.

And yet, they continue on. Net losses, stock cratering, new management be damned.

So who is right and who is wrong here. I think almost all the naysayers would have had them in the grave LONG ago. This thread alone has been going just shy of 6 years and every quarter you wake it back up with the continued bad news. That's a long time in the software industry.

And yet..... they are still doing what they do.

I find it all a bit amusing. You guys are SO adamant in your assessments of their ill health. And I don't argue that. I FOR SURE couldn't run my business the way they run theirs and survive.

BUT - they do survive.

How? I have no idea. Maybe they get a do-over by being able to re-write the "rules" that apply to everyone else.

How long will they last? Longer than you suspect for sure. Probably not as long as I suspect.

The fact is, they are still in business, still doing what they do. I don't think that even you could argue that. I'm sorry if that annoys you. It's not my intent to frustrate you. Just to offer a differing real world non-financial expert opinion.
Its hip/cool to bash avid. Some people just want to revel in failures of other companies and always be right. It's why you have a 6 year+ thread like this. Other people just go on with life and do their own thing, avid users or not.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1892
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
There's no room for passion in *this* topic. Nor bias. Anyone wishing for success or ill will for Avid isn't discussing the current health of the company, they're injecting their personal feelings and hoping to sway the opinions of others, but that's not how financials work. Those who support Avid suggest that any negative comments are just part of a personal agenda, and those who do not support Avid suggest that any positive comments are just part of a personal agenda. It's a pointless discussion outside of our own heads because we feel what we feel. At least with the financials we're discussing something relevant, but it would be nice if the zealous, vitriolic comments would find another thread.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1893
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm a musician - not a financial advisor. .
One who has been claiming 'people' are saying things... then can't back it up with specific examples when asked.

And one who very specifically made predictions - vague, ethereal ones, but nevertheless - that Avid would "come out on top", and again, when asked specifically to define the meaning of your words and a timeframe... you whiffed.

You don't need to be a financial advisor to post here, but if you're going to make claims about others or the company you shouldn't be surprised when asked to back them up.
Old 17th November 2018
  #1894
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
Its hip/cool to bash avid.
Yeah, it's dope, it's lit, it's what all the kool cids are doing.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1895
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
One who has been claiming 'people' are saying things... then can't back it up with specific examples when asked.

And one who very specifically made predictions - vague, ethereal ones, but nevertheless - that Avid would "come out on top", and again, when asked specifically to define the meaning of your words and a timeframe... you whiffed.

You don't need to be a financial advisor to post here, but if you're going to make claims about others or the company you shouldn't be surprised when asked to back them up.

You're a trip. My thoughts were never touted as predictions, and were never meant to be taken as "fact". Only as my opinion. Why not put me on "block or ignore" or whatever it's called. I'm happy to do the same for you. Cheers,
Old 18th November 2018
  #1896
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're a trip. My thoughts were never touted as predictions, and were never meant to be taken as "fact". Only as my opinion.
Yes Bill, and I asked you to explain your opinion - if in the face of continued decreasing sales and increasing losses you still thought Avid would "come out on top" - and to explain what that meant and what time-frame you talking about.

Similarly, you opined that 'people' were claiming Avid was "doomed to crater" yet when asked who here was doing that you got defensive and tried tapdancing from it, merely repeating you'd heard 'people' saying it.

come on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Why not put me on "block or ignore" or whatever it's called.
Why not back up your assertions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm happy to do the same for you. Cheers,
You can do whatever you want, Bill. Be aware of course that if you make unsupported claims, people may reply to you even if you can't see those replies.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1897
Gear Nut
 

Do people here make music anymore or do they just sit around all day arguing on the internet about the financials of a company for 6 years, that makes a product they dont use?
Old 18th November 2018
  #1898
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
Yes Bill, and I asked you to explain your opinion - if in the face of continued decreasing sales and increasing losses you still thought Avid would "come out on top" - and to explain what that meant and what time-frame you talking about.

Similarly, you opined that 'people' were claiming Avid was "doomed to crater" yet when asked who here was doing that you got defensive and tried tapdancing from it, merely repeating you'd heard 'people' saying it.

come on.



Why not back up your assertions?



You can do whatever you want, Bill. Be aware of course that if you make unsupported claims, people may reply to you even if you can't see those replies.
You're taking this way to personal. I've had people tell me that AVID was doomed long before this thread was started. People in Japan when I worked there for a season, people at studio's in LA. People I've met on the road. People I've conversed with on the internet. Must I call them out by name? Do I need a signed affidavit? Must I go back and comb over internet conversations and quote them. Contact friends to ask what their buddy's name was who didn't like AVID?

Does my word mean nothing or do I have to back up everything I say with empirical evidence? How have I not backed up my opinion? How does one even back up their opinion? Opinion is not fact. It's opinion. It's accumulated and grown by personal experience. Opinion shouldn't need to be verifiable, immutable and independently audited to be seen as a valid.

I cannot explain how Avid maintains. I can comment on the FACT that it DOES maintain. Or at least has as of 5:24PM Pacific Standard time. Call it witchcraft, creative accounting, a cat with 9 lives, whatever you want. But you cannot deny that it's software is still being creatively used in the majority (arguably) of studio's in LA and elsewhere.

Your inflexible and confrontative attitude is tedious. Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK? My "unsupported claims" are just opinion. I didn't put them up as verified financial facts, and I have not disputed your financial "facts" that you put up. Never once. Why would I? I assume they are accurate.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1899
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're taking this way to personal. I've had people tell me that AVID was doomed long before this thread was started. People in Japan when I worked there for a season, people at studio's in LA. People I've met on the road. People I've conversed with on the internet. Must I call them out by name? Do I need a signed affidavit? Must I go back and comb over internet conversations and quote them. Contact friends to ask what their buddy's name was who didn't like AVID?

Does my word mean nothing or do I have to back up everything I say with empirical evidence? How have I not backed up my opinion? How does one even back up their opinion? Opinion is not fact. It's opinion. It's accumulated and grown by personal experience. Opinion shouldn't need to be verifiable, immutable and independently audited to be seen as a valid.

I cannot explain how Avid maintains. I can comment on the FACT that it DOES maintain. Or at least has as of 5:24PM Pacific Standard time. Call it witchcraft, creative accounting, a cat with 9 lives, whatever you want. But you cannot deny that it's software is still being creatively used in the majority (arguably) of studio's in LA and elsewhere.

Your inflexible and confrontative attitude is tedious. Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK? My "unsupported claims" are just opinion. I didn't put them up as verified financial facts, and I have not disputed your financial "facts" that you put up. Never once. Why would I? I assume they are accurate.
Ya all the negativity is exhausting. Dont like pro tools? Ok cool use something else. Dont like avid's financials? Ok cool buy stock in another company. Dont feel confident about their future? Ok cool buy different products. You can sit around all day and be mad about Avids management, or you can make some music and mind your own finances. You're certainly not going to save anyone or anything by posting in this thread.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1900
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You're taking this way to personal.
You're the one recommending that I block you and then say you are "happy" to do the same ... and yet I'm the one taking it too personally? Pretty funny, Bill.

Please go ahead and block me since you're so 'happy' to. I've found that most people who go on and on about that actually don't have the self-control to do it (or to not reply), but who knows, there's a first for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Does my word mean nothing
When you make a claim you need to be willing to back it up... or else understand that someone might call you on it. In this case you made a few claims, none of which you've dared support or explain. (shrug)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Allow me to have my opinion and we'll call it even. OK?
There's no 'even' in this Bill. You're taking it to (sic) personal.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1901
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
You're the one recommending that I block you and then say you are "happy" to do the same ... and yet I'm the one taking it too personally? Pretty funny, Bill.

Please go ahead and block me since you're so 'happy' to. I've found that most people who go on and on about that actually don't have the self-control to do it (or to not reply), but who knows, there's a first for everything.



When you make a claim you need to be willing to back it up... or else understand that someone might call you on it. In this case you made a few claims, none of which you've dared support or explain. (shrug)



There's no 'even' in this Bill. You're taking it to (sic) personal.
No one needs to back up their opinions, validate their opinions, or verify their work experience for you. You're just some random guy on a message board. While this thread continues its horse beating, many people are, right now, making music with pro tools, which includes hit records. Many people are using different DAWs. And frankly, they dont care about some random guy on the internets opinion about Avid, nor do they probably want to waste their time proving decades of experience to internet warriors with no public credentials.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1902
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
frankly, they dont care about some random guy on the internets opinion about Avid
No one forced Bill to come here and post for many months in this thread defending Avid, or forced him to make claims, or made him make predictions. And there's no rule that anyone can make any claims or predictions and not be asked about them. People who choose to make public forum statements, opinions, and claims shouldn't be surprised to be replied to about them, to asked about them, to be asked support claims, or be held to account for them. Saying you don't care that someone has called out out for claims then following it up by suggesting they stop posting and block you instead is just plain weird.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1903
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
No one forced Bill to come here and post for many months in this thread defending Avid, or forced him to make claims, or made him make predictions. And there's no rule that anyone can make any claims or predictions and not be asked about them. People who choose to make public forum statements, opinions, and claims shouldn't be surprised to be replied to about them, to asked about them, to be asked support claims, or be held to account for them. Saying you don't care that someone has called out out for claims then following it up by suggesting they stop posting and block you instead is just plain weird.
Dr Bill didn't come here to "make claims" or "predictions", he's merely stating the obvious: that aside from a number of people who seem to wish for Avid's demise over the six years this thread's been going, it hasn't happened. Bill's also a veteran in the industry, so while he sees what's on the "inside" in the world of production (which is a lot of PT rigs) - he's made no such claims of insider knowledge of Avid's inner workings, financial health or any other such thing. He's merely read the same thread you have and come to a different conclusion.

So people have read this thread and made up a bunch of opinions about what it all means, but you want to cherry pick a fight with someone whose opinions don't jibe with yours - you'd at least have credibility if you challenged everyone who's made claims and statements - many of which actually are based on fallacious reasoning. Yet they all get a pass from you - ask yourself why that is.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1904
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Bill did indeed claim that people said specific things, and I asked him who. He refused, time and time again, to back up his specific, non-obvious claim (yes, claim) with any examples. That's fine. I pointed that out - also fine. He also made a prediction at the beginning of the year and I asked him whether he still believed it, and if so what the parameters of his claim (yes claim) were. I didn't pick a fight with him - I'm not fighting - but he apparently got sufficiently bent out of shape to sniff that he wasn't upset but that I should not post to him in a public forum any more and he'd be 'happy' to block me. If he wants to block posts from me he's certainly entitled to it - as are you - but if I make claims I have a reasonable expectation that people may query me about them or dispute them, and the same goes for anyone else.
Old 18th November 2018
  #1905
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarAudioz View Post
Do people here make music anymore or do they just sit around all day arguing on the internet about the financials of a company for 6 years, that makes a product they dont use?
This made me laugh out loud! It just is so true!

My interest is purely academic, as Avid is an extreme example of a certain type of business practice. Also the fact that it does not fail is something I find fascinating!

It is not as interesting as the steady march of the German discounters Aldi and Lidl across Planet Earth, but then I'm an economist and we thrive on boring stuff like that!

I seriously fail to understand or sympathise with people getting emotionally wound up over some mid-sized tech company and its problems, but I hope for the sake of its many professional customers and staff that it continues to function and provide products to the market.
Old 13th April 2019
  #1906
Lives for gear
With a smile on my lips, I note that this thread has not been dug up (well, it has now!) since last year. You can't gloat over good results! There's no schadenfreude in a good Q4!

Since then, the share price has almost doubled, new CEO Rosica seems to be steadying the ship and it looks as if the madness of the past three management regimes is becoming a thing of the past.

I honestly believed that Avid was doomed and that the owners were prepared to put up with incompetence, arrogance and testosterone-fuelled policies such as the Orad acquisition ad infinitum. It seems they were not!

I have since spoken to (let's just say) a key player in this saga and they said "We got involved because I saw management make every mistake imaginable and then some mistakes I hadn't thought of and it still survived. I thought that if it can survive all that, just imagine what a great company this could become under proper management!"

I honestly thought they were mad, but I am happy to say that they have probably proven me wrong! OK, Avid ain't out of the woods yet and there is a great deal of damage to be repaired. Whilst Avid has been repeatedly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, packages like DaVinci-Resolve and Premier have been innovating furiously and Avid has some serious catching up to do.

I just hope that it is not too late!
Old 13th April 2019
  #1907
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!! Heresy!
Old 13th April 2019
  #1908
Gear Head
 
Oscar Myer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Waiting for an announcement that Apple acquired Pro Tools and will release a new Logic Tools music software soon.
Maybe BandLab will pick up Pro Tools... and then give it away for free. (as in Cakewalk)
Old 2nd May 2019
  #1909
Lives for gear
 
JSt0rm's Avatar
they arnet out of the wods yet. Stock is up because people are betting it will be good times. and they may be. Meanwhile we are 5 months without an update in a system that was supposed to get monthly updates.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #1910
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
I want Avid to survive. I also want them to have the best DAW on the marketplace.
Old 3rd May 2019
  #1911
Lives for gear
 
noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
I want Avid to survive. I also want them to have the best DAW on the marketplace.
Well - if Tiger Woods can do it....
Old 30th May 2019
  #1912
Lives for gear
Some heavy selling by institutional investors going on right now.
Old 31st May 2019
  #1913
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Some heavy selling by institutional investors going on right now.
Layman's terms, please? I don't want to assume!
Old 31st May 2019
  #1914
Lives for gear
Since April 1st, Cove Street has sold $27m worth of its $42m that it held in shares.

Simple metrics indicate that Avid may be slightly undervalued, but it still is a company with net equity of -$170m and has $260m total debt, up from $222m at the beginning of the year.

As stated - it ain't out of the woods yet!
Old 1st June 2019
  #1915
Lives for gear
 
skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Since April 1st, Cove Street has sold $27m worth of its $42m that it held in shares.
I think at this point I might note that in January I received a PM on this site from a principal at Cove Street Capital, giving me a phone number and asking to chat. Given the company's stake in Avid I didn't see any particular point or benefit in pursuing a confab.

Looks like Cove St rode the stock's price bump and took profits (or limited their losses, depending on what price[s] they bought in at over the years), as the stock is still up ~ 40% since January.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
it ain't out of the woods yet!
They still have around $220 million in long-term debt, while incurring a Net Loss of $200k last quarter, and Net Loss of $10.7 million last year (and had a Net Loss of $13.6 million in 2017).

I'm also a bit curious about Avid's giving up control of sales to the entire China region to Beijing Jetsen in 2017 in exchange for guaranteed revenue ... which may or may not not have been forthcoming. (Somewhat interesting that "Jetsen" basically disappeared from Avid's vocabulary not long after the deal completed in 2017; the company and Avid's deal with it appears nowhere in its last quarterly report, or in the 2018 annual report.)
Old 1st June 2019
  #1916
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
They still have around $220 million in long-term debt
Minor Point of Order - That was six months ago - it is climbing rapidly and at close of play, Friday, it was just over $270m. Cash is at $55m. Short term is $196m giving it net equity of $-167m.

That sudden up-tick of debt should sound alarms somewhere!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
"Jetsen" basically disappeared from Avid's vocabulary
since Jan 31 2017!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
depending on what price[s] they bought in at
I think (I don't know!) the bulk was acquired during the non-listed period when Greenfield and the board were desperate - so they probably got a bargain!

But as I am not being paid to watch Avid, you must forgive me if I return to do things I do get paid for!
Old 2nd June 2019
  #1917
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Since April 1st, Cove Street has sold $27m worth of its $42m that it held in shares.

Simple metrics indicate that Avid may be slightly undervalued, but it still is a company with net equity of -$170m and has $260m total debt, up from $222m at the beginning of the year.

As stated - it ain't out of the woods yet!
Thank you for the reports!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1918
Lives for gear
Avids new pricing structure

Important Update on Upcoming Price Adjustments

As many of you know, the entire technology industry is going through a major shift from perpetual licenses to a new business model focused on subscription. This directional change is a positive shift for many users that are interested in more flexible and affordable payment options and only paying for those features, functions or services they need to access. Avid is always looking at ways to improve efficiencies, however, the cost of doing business continues to increase, and we have maintained the same pricing since our subscription offerings started over 5 years ago. We continue to deliver new innovations, as well as new ways of enabling our customers to do their jobs faster and easier. This includes the recent announcements of the 2019 releases of Media Composer, Pro Tools and Sibelius.

Today, we are announcing that we have adjusted several of the prices of our Creative Software offerings effective July 1, 2019. Some prices have increased, some have stayed the same and some have decreased. A major focus of our analysis was on this shift from perpetual to subscription models and as a result we have increased the number and appeal of cross-grade offers for those that are interested in shifting from perpetual to subscription. We have also increased the number of payment options for subscription, including pay up front annually, commit annually but pay monthly and pay as you go, monthly.

Please know that Avid understands the impact and implication of price increases and this is not a decision we take lightly or without significant analysis and thought. As mentioned above, there are incentives for you to cross-grade from your current perpetual license to subscription, like decreased pricing and additional functionality, depending on the product. We would highly recommend that you look at those options as you consider your next renewal.

These changes will go into effect July 1, 2019. If you would like to discuss your current renewal and/or understand your options, please contact an Avid account representative, or local reseller, who will be happy to speak with you.

Thank you again for being an Avid customer, and we appreciate your continued support.

Avid Product Management
-----------------------------------


PT Standard users will lose their Perpetual licence and be offered a special discount to go on Subscription but the true cost is double the present $99 to $199. The special price will be a time limited one off crossgrade ... i think

So, down the line it will be pony up the $199 and you also lose your perpetual licence.

You could of course buy future yearly plans before July 1st
I think i read that its capped a 3
I wonder how much revenue they will see from advanced licence sales before July 1st
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1919
Lives for gear
 
raggedman's Avatar
 

Reaper works quite well
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1920
Lives for gear
 
sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
PT Standard users will lose their Perpetual licence and be offered a special discount to go on Subscription but the true cost is double the present $99 to $199. The special price will be a time limited one off crossgrade ... i think

So, down the line it will be pony up the $199 and you also lose your perpetual licence.

You could of course buy future yearly plans before July 1st
I think i read that its capped a 3
I wonder how much revenue they will see from advanced licence sales before July 1st
That's not entirely accurate.

You can still keep your perpetual license, but yes, it has doubled in price for PT Standard users. You don't have to move to subscription... yet. I think that's what you meant, but it kind of looks unclear and thought it needed clarifying. We all know how ambiguous AVID's own blurbs are. HAHA!

Kind of crazy to think that they just doubled the price. No incremental increase, just BAM - double the price. Even more crazy considering they had ONE RELEASE in 6 months.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump