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BIAS Is Gone DAW Software
Old 6th June 2012
  #31
AyA
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Look at manufacturing vs software development for a moment.

In manufacturing you have all these extra costs after you've designed a product. You have to keep building them and shipping them.
Buying materials, warehousing costs, tool maintenance... The list goes on.

When you have almost zero distribution costs and a zero product duplication cost. I don't see the value in such a claim to profit from IP. Especially when you factor in there is no guarantee the product will work tomorrow.

It's a service based industry and you get payed for service.
Old 6th June 2012
  #32
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
It's entirely likely that the next iteration of Logic will come free with every Apple computer. What then?

People beginning to form their sense of valuation on Apple's pricing is literally a software designer's nightmare. The stuff cost $1k+, then $500, then $200, then very likely free.

Making that a pricing standard in people's perception --- and non-ironically calling $400 "very, very expensive" --- is certainly one of the things that will kill independent software developers.

Hence the title of this thread.

- c
So how come there are software developers able to deliver some pretty good sample editors for $99?

Bias screwed up majorly when they didn't deliver on neither multitrack or cocoa support or any of the other features they promised, and they took way to long to fix bugs in the past, too. That, as much as anything else, might be what killed them, not price. Peak cost $400, too.

You mention a downward spiral in terms of price, but surely you agree that you can't just go about it the other way: charge $400, then $600, then $800? What would YOU say is the ideal price for a professional piece of software?
Old 6th June 2012
  #33
This might be wishful thinking, but -

The only reason we know Redmatica is now an Apple property is because of an Italian regulatory filing. They otherwise shut down a few days ago and have not used the 'A-word' at all in their 'so long!' communiques.

WWDC starts imminently... maybe Apple bought BIAS' IP already and their tech will be in a newly announced Soundtrack Pro or part of Logic or something new entirely..? And the only reason we don't know about it is local laws don't require they tell us? And BIAS has left it till the last possible day to announce they're no longer an independent concern?

Also, worth noting that BIAS (as of somewhat recently) was only a shell company - an extension of 'Marin Audio Technology LLC' - which owns all the IP and only 'licensed' it to BIAS (even though they're all owned by the same people, according to the Internet). Not sure if that fact is relevant to anything, but there you go.

Anyway, BIAS has a long history with Apple...

Rampant speculation is fun...

Hmmmmm.
Old 6th June 2012
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthoid View Post
I always wondered what the heck was going on with them. Peak stabilized a lot in version 6.2, but it was never as reliable as a relatively simple audio editor ought to be, and ... somehow the way they announced and released gave the impression they were always operating slightly out of control, technically.
-synthoid
I'm surprised that they lasted this long. One of the most buggy software programs that I ever bought (years ago) and never used.
Old 6th June 2012
  #35
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Quote:
They should've served PC users.
I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite was the problem...I imagine when WaveLab started shipping for Mac a year or so back it took a decent chunk of Peak's market share away.

Quote:
i absolutely have zero idea why an informational topic like this has been put in the moan zone. weird
Probably because it is sad.

Quote:
I'd say wavelab 7 is the best alternative
It's very, very expensive - about $400, is it?
As has already been pointed out, it is the same price as Peak was...and right around the same price that Sound Forge still is, and that Spark and Sound Designer sold for...the market seems to be happy with that price, so while there are cheaper options available, and "expensive" is a somewhat subjective and relative term, I would not consider it to be "very, very" expensive.

Quote:
Yeah, I'll play, too. Logic Pro costs $199. You can take a look at what that mighty package contains here:

Apple - Logic Pro 9 - Everything you need to make great music.

And they don't copy protect their software the way Bias did (or Steinberg does with Wavelab), so if the company goes bust (fat chance the next 20 years) there won't be any installation issues - at least not because of the copy protection.
As has already been pointed out, the future for Logic does not look to bright. Look at what happened to Final Cut. Professional support for Logic essentially disappeared when they pulled it from music retailers.

As for Apple not copy protecting it the way Bias did, or Steinberg does, that's true...they copy protect it with the most expensive dongle of all, one of their computers. Do you think they're really bothered if you steal the software and run it on three or four computers? You've purchased three or four of their computers?

And no, I don't expect them to go bust in the next 20 years, but I don't expect Logic to be anything beyond a free app even in the near future, and I don't expect much in terms of further development at all. And with the majority of their profits coming from phones and iPads, I'm not even super confident about the future of their computers, at least not in the higher end of things.
Old 6th June 2012
  #36
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Has anyone used Deck? I had a demo that only worked for a while,but it seemed like a pretty good program. Is it? Since they have closed is it a bad idea to put it on one of my computers?
Thanks GT.
Old 7th June 2012
  #37
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ssaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
I'm surprised that they lasted this long. One of the most buggy software programs that I ever bought (years ago) and never used.
Agreed 100%
Useless software (due to the bugs) - and a company that was quite incapable of sorting it out too. Shame and all that, but they just couldn't compete.
Old 7th June 2012
  #38
Gear Addict
 
lowpassfilter's Avatar
I am also guessing maybe Apple bought them like they did Redmatica. They know the audio sucks in FCP X, they've committed to improving it, and need to fill out their audio team. They were stretching the Logic guys pretty thin with GB, STP, Logic, and then GB for iOS.

I spent many years with peak 2.5TDM and then Peak 4. Thought their prices were way too high for what they offered the last few years.

I recommend RX2 as a replacement for a straight editor (no mastering features).
Old 7th June 2012
  #39
WDM
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damit! I can't believe this... having good product on their hands...

Another "corporate screw up"?

They just need to continue sell what they had few years ago and didn't make any promises.

Some management screams to be replaced!

I hope someone from Apple pays serious attention now to this opportunity.
Old 7th June 2012
  #40
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synthoid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by digidandy View Post
Yeah, I'll play, too. Logic Pro costs $199. You can take a look at what that mighty package contains here:

Apple - Logic Pro 9 - Everything you need to make great music.

And they don't copy protect their software the way Bias did (or Steinberg does with Wavelab), so if the company goes bust (fat chance the next 20 years) there won't be any installation issues - at least not because of the copy protection.
That's all true, but it's also true that Soundtrack Pro is probably the most widely owned editor on Macs and almost no one uses it. It was so buggy in its first two major versions that it was a challenge just to *open* it and keep it open.

-synthoid
Old 7th June 2012
  #41
Gear Head
 
DigiGal's Avatar
 

Sorry for those losing their Bias support.

However, Long live Audiofile Engineering !!! Wave Editor 2.0 is in beta now and the company appears to continually develop all for a reasonable price. For instance Wave Editor 2 requires Mac OS X Lion (10.7) or Mountain Lion (10.8).

Dollar for dollar Wave Editor has been a better suited program for my needs. I'm so glad I didn't jump on the Bias Peak ship when it was suggested to me.

Here is info on the current release for anyone who may be interested...
Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor Tech Specs
Old 7th June 2012
  #42
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Also there is Soundblade.

- c
Old 7th June 2012
  #43
TNM
Lives for gear
and wavelab as mentioned..

and for lightning fast editing, nothing beats twisted wave.. nothing...
Old 7th June 2012
  #44
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiGal View Post
Sorry for those losing their Bias support.

However, Long live Audiofile Engineering !!! Wave Editor 2.0 is in beta now and the company appears to continually develop all for a reasonable price. For instance Wave Editor 2 requires Mac OS X Lion (10.7) or Mountain Lion (10.8).

Dollar for dollar Wave Editor has been a better suited program for my needs. I'm so glad I didn't jump on the Bias Peak ship when it was suggested to me.

Here is info on the current release for anyone who may be interested...
Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor Tech Specs

good for them being the first audio developer to REQUIRE lion.. i guess i will indefinitely stay at my current wave editor version then as i ain't moving from snow.. no way..
Old 7th June 2012
  #45
Gear Nut
 

Moving from Sounddesigner to Peak in the past was a big step for me. Peak was so much more advanced but not half as stable as Digidesigns Audio Editor. So I had mixed feelings about Peak.
Over the years audio editors in all mayor DAWs became so powerful that for pure audio editing this was more than enough. When I had to create a red book compatible CD for production I've handed the files over to a friend who had Wavelab on a PC.
When Wavelab was finally available for the Mac I was independent again. Not sure if I need all the features in Wavelab but it's super fast and completely stable.
I do feel sorry for the guys who had just lost their jobs...
Old 7th June 2012
  #46
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synthoid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
I'm surprised that they lasted this long. One of the most buggy software programs that I ever bought (years ago) and never used.
It got better, it really did. By 6.2 it was pretty usable. But man, what a journey, haha.

I should never have used SoundForge on a PC. It has ruined me for audio editors. How I wish those guys would port that thing to Macs. :-/

-synthoid
Old 7th June 2012
  #47
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
I had a copy of Peak soon after it was released. It had a lot of problems and I got a chance to talk to the president of the company on more than one occasion. They seemed very anxious to please and to listen to what their customer base wanted. Too bad their software was never fully operational in the early days and I left them soon after their first year in business. I really never looked back but it is always tragic when a company goes under and all the people have to find new jobs and the audio world loses another software developer.

MTCW
Old 7th June 2012
  #48
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Ward Pike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn Taylor View Post
Has anyone used Deck? I had a demo that only worked for a while,but it seemed like a pretty good program. Is it? Since they have closed is it a bad idea to put it on one of my computers?
Thanks GT.
I was just about to bring that up! Back in the day, I thought it was brilliant. It was way ahead of its time. Of course, the original developers of Deck were the same group that originally developed Pro Tools user-interface software.

It was such a neat little cheap program, back in the day. What you could do with that on a 7100 or 8100 was pretty sweet for 1995.
Old 7th June 2012
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
and for lightning fast editing, nothing beats twisted wave.. nothing...
just downloaded the trial version. it seems great for a simple editor! and it supports multichannel files.

-synthoid
Old 7th June 2012
  #50
TNM
Lives for gear
Check how smoooooooth the mouse wheel wave zooming is.. it's just like butter.. there's nothing like it, not even wavelab.

For just my raw editing tasks, i have it set as my external logic wave editor.

For mastering, wavelab is more advanced..

mind you twisted wave does have a realtime master section with unlimited slots.

The thing it desperately needs is cd burning and some higher quality sample rate/TS/PS/Dither algos and it would be complete.

Unlike some others, i think dsp quattro is dreadful software, and it all has to do with how complicated it is to edit whilst looping, and focus in the spot you need to focus on...plus the zoom is no where near as full in DSPQ as most other editors.
Old 7th June 2012
  #51
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synthoid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
Check how smoooooooth the mouse wheel wave zooming is.. it's just like butter.. there's nothing like it, not even wavelab.
Yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised. Especially surprised that I'd never heard of it. It's kind of the opposite of SoundForge, which I love, but the fact that it's so simple has its own appeal.

For some reason, the first thing I did with the demo is pull up the color stuff and make a new color scheme. Took 5min. The thing looks great. I work with multichannel files a lot, and the features for multichannel editing are really not bad (like locking channels together, 'paste over' on individual channels, etc.)

And it has batch processing! And I didn't run into any bugs yet.

I don't assemble very many masters so stuff like DDP and Redbook doesn't matter to me much in an audio editor. When I do assemble one, I tend to use iTunes (haha) for throwaway stuff and Waveburner for slightly more serious things.

-synthoid
Old 7th June 2012
  #52
Gear Addict
 

what now? no decent 2 track on mac? peak gone, spark gone... wavelab is ehm... what do we have here?
Old 7th June 2012
  #53
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Ward Pike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayskura View Post
what now? no decent 2 track on mac? peak gone, spark gone... wavelab is ehm... what do we have here?
A very good question. I like a good 2 track editor for my stereo mix files also.
Old 7th June 2012
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Old 8th June 2012
  #55
Gear interested
 

BIAS

Greetings:

We understand that many people are surprised at the closing of BIAS and have questions as to the reason why. Please understand that we are not at liberty to discuss those reasons in detail since they concern matters of individual privacy. However, the conduct of certain employees resulted in disruptive interpersonal relationships which damaged morale and interfered with high functioning at a time when market pressures required that the company perform at an optimum level.

Despite the high quality of our products and team, the disruption contributed to a lack of sales and marketing effectiveness that was fatal to the company. Our products remain among the best in the industry, and we exploring various avenues that we hope will result in our customers still receiving the benefit of the products they have valued in the past. We appreciate your past patronage as well as your patience and support as we move through this difficult period.

Steve Berkley
CEO and President, BIAS Inc.
Member, Marin Audio Technology LLC

Last edited by sberkley; 8th June 2012 at 04:36 AM.. Reason: asterisks
Old 8th June 2012
  #56
TNM
Lives for gear
Hi Steve.. I am sure i can speak for everybody here at GS when i say I am so so sorry for this sad turn of events.

May i ask, do you see a problem in keeping the authorization server open permanently?

I am sure if there is a cost issue involved that owners of the software would donate enough to make sure the authorization server at least works for ever so to speak.

cheers and here's hoping nothing but success in any future endeavors,

Theo
Old 8th June 2012
  #57
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for trying to explain, Steve, but you fail to address why you kept on sending upgrade offers until about a week before closing.

In light of what you are saying, this doesn't make any *more* sense than it did before you clarification.
Old 8th June 2012
  #58
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I've been using Amadeus II forever- and I got TwistedWave specifically for batch processing.

TwistedWave actually allowed me to do batch processing using my AU plugins, on entire sample libraries, IN the trial period. I could've done what I needed to do without even buying it, if I was quick.

I bought it immediately. That kind of generosity carries enormous weight with me.

What I do with Amadeus II is basic two-track editing, fadeins/outs, sonograms of sounds, RMS/peak/etc analysis of songs, editing waveforms on zero crossings, occasionally the noise reduction features, maybe use of markers even more rarely, extremely rough sample rate changing (for anything serious I'll use an old copy of Audacity with 'Secret Rabbit Code' sinc interpolation SRC) and exporting to 320K LAME mp3.

Suffice to say, I like the heck out of these products. I'm sorry to hear about Bias. I think a plugin that shipped with Peak was part of a convoluted chain that got some folks using AUs on Pro Tools...
Old 8th June 2012
  #59
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by strangerspusi View Post
There must be someone that buys their technology?
A company with products up to $600, known and respected in the market for years just shutting down with no further info?

That reminds me of something.....
Old 8th June 2012
  #60
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skira's Avatar
 

Ah, never mind. The story is apparently something a bit more sordid...
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