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Full Sail Graduates Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 7th June 2006
  #91
Lives for gear
the right track

RobR

H3LL yeah. If someone was offering to send me to "edu-institute X" with some real chance of something better, or I can keep sweeping floors, sign me up.

I know what you mean about getting sidetracked for a decade. Personal experience.

Being sidetracked did give me some time off (from the 60 hour a week rat-race of commuting, shopping at midnight, getting 4.5 hours of sleep and trying to catch up on weekends, etc.). I still believe that smart people can self-train to a certain level and find someone to be useful to with that knowledge, while picking up advanced skills.

Don't count on your instructors to offer more than they learned in school. To get beyond what schools can teach, you have to do your own experiments and research. All the knowledge of the world is not in books yet. Many of the most-expert practitioners of the craft didn't write much. Fortunately, much is in the books, and some of the stuff in old books is clearer than the in new ones. The old ideas and new tools might lead to something neat.

Get some sleep!

Best wishes.

Karl
Old 7th June 2006
  #92
Gear Addict
 

Rufus,

You get 4.5 hours of sleep? Damn, wanna trade?

Time to find some water that doesn't come from a Florida tap; before I
stuff envelopes for a couple of hours.
Old 7th June 2006
  #93
Gear Head
 
DanRather's Avatar
 

fullsail used to be an okay But now since it is saturated with student it has been on a downfall. A lot of places will just circle file your resume when they receive it because a lot of grads that come out of their are so cocky and think they know everything and dont have to start from the ground up like everyone else. They make you spend a lot of ****ing money for some thing you could learn on your own or go tO A cheaper trade school and learn the same damn thing. just when you graduate dont be cocky person that thinks they know it all. but enough bashing their has been good like Brians Jones who owns BJ Record a label off J records. This guy is also now signed to def Jam and making beats for real popular artist. Umm that 1 out 3 people I know who went to full sail and is actually doing well. I agree with the other people for every good engineer that comes out of their, there are 20 useless idiot engineer that are stuck up cocky know it alls
Old 8th June 2006
  #94
Lives for gear
Now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobR
Rufus,

You get 4.5 hours of sleep? Damn, wanna trade?

Time to find some water that doesn't come from a Florida tap; before I
stuff envelopes for a couple of hours.

I get 8 or 9 hours of sleep every night because if I don't, I'm a zombie like the people driving down the highway. Cut out television. Eat good food. Read books. Surf GS :-)

I've decided to live on the proceeds of about 20 hours of work a week and turn down a lot of jobs by bidding about double my normal rate (even better, pass the less-desirable jobs/clients to my esteemed competitors).

The strawberries/blueberries/rasperries/figs in the yard are doing great!

KK
Old 8th June 2006
  #95
Lives for gear
I know a bunch of fullsail folks. I have tracked there too. It is what you make it. If you want to be a producer, you will not learn it there. you will learn to engineer though..IF you have the passion to do it.

I just taught myself how to record. I also spent a ****load of time in the studio as an artist. A lot of guys have. A lot of guys in bands get high and don't pay attention to what is going on. Their loss.

If you want to be a producer, you should start as a musician. A good producer should feel comfy playing about anything. Even producers that came out of fullsail busted their ass the few hours they had out of school in bands and playing shows. It makes a difference.

I know a guy from fullsail who cant even record a track in protools. I know a guy from there who gets some of the best guitar sounds I have ever heard. I also know a guy who dropped out of there and ended up becoming a success.

Point is, there are examples for every scenario. It's music. Super unpredictable.
Old 8th June 2006
  #96
Gear Addict
 

Yes, a true challenge for Mitchell Feigenbaum.
Old 8th June 2006
  #97
Lives for gear
 
Kestral's Avatar
 

What do all these people have in common?

Flood
Brian Eno
Daniel Lanois
Rob Cavallo
Andy Wallace
Chris Lord-Alge
Tom Lord-Alge
Bob Clearmountain
Scott Storch
Pharrell, Neptunes
The Dust Brothers
Brendan O'Brien
Randy Staub
Steve Lillywhite

None of them went to Full Sail.
Old 9th June 2006
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Slaytex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by primalsteve
Where did you get that info man. UCF is 2 miles away and has 36,000 students. It is one of the largest schools in the country. Full Sail is located on the edge of Winter Park in a relatively poor area compared to the rest of Winter Park. If you've been to the real Winter Park you would know Full Sail doesn't come close to owning it. It is filled with million dollar houses with uber rich lawyers and doctors. When I went there they recomended about 30 different appartment complexes. As far as I know they didn't own any of them. I certainly don't know that for a fact but during the year I was there never even heard that as a rumor. The college is very rich as uses some pretty slimy advertising but we paid the asking price they certainly didn't force us.
Steve
Well I may have exagerated a bit by saying the whole town but what I mean is the close proximity of the school, such as the shopping mall to the right, the Ale house and many other things including some apt. communities (this does not mean there is a complex called "Fullsail at the Greens" ). The school atleast when I was there was owned by only a few dudes who were big investors. $$$ These guys didn't start this school in hopes to provide a great education, they want you're damn money period (atleast this was what my graduating class and I thought after speaking to the one that has the black 911 twin turbo Porsche! There was a great Forbes issue some 3-4 years back that went over all the shady **** the school has done. Again I'm not against the school. i went there graduated with very high scores and am doing very well for myself. but if someone asks me about it I give them the truth.
Good luck to all in you're decision making!
Old 9th June 2006
  #99
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
What do all these people have in common?

Flood
Brian Eno
Daniel Lanois
Rob Cavallo
Andy Wallace
Chris Lord-Alge
Tom Lord-Alge
Bob Clearmountain
Scott Storch
Pharrell, Neptunes
The Dust Brothers
Brendan O'Brien
Randy Staub
Steve Lillywhite

None of them went to Full Sail.


umm..was the school even around when they got started? I doubt it. If it was, it was in it's infancy.

Don't discredit everyone who went to that school. People have been successful that have graduated from there, thought the majority haven't.

I take it personally when people make it seem like if you want to be one of the "big shots" in this industry, that going to a school is going to stop you. That's the most absurd statement I've ever heard. Who are you to say that as a Full Sail grad I'm not capable of working on a level with legends such as those? How do you know every single person who's graduated, and what they are capable of, and who they will meet? Who are you to say what work they will retain and what will be acomplished?
Old 10th June 2006
  #100
Lives for gear
 
brian_delizza's Avatar
 

There are two types of kids at Full Sail: really talented people who take advantage of being there and actually learn, and kids who graduate and still can't figure out how to solo a track in Pro Tools (true story). It is the latter that give the grads the bad reputation. I must say the Full Sail classes are not very hard at all and they make it very easy for people to pass, yet you still see people failing a basic Pro Tools class three times. The lack of admission requirements other than a high school diploma just contributes to this problem. They do give you a decent education but it is definitely not worth the amount they charge for it. I found that to get the best education out of your experience you need to spend as much time out of class as possible talking to instructors and putting in that extra effort to get your moneys worth. These are just my opinions but I feel they are fairly valid and as with all things you cant let a few bad stories represent a schools entire population.
Old 10th June 2006
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_delizza
There are two types of kids at Full Sail: really talented people who take advantage of being there and actually learn, and kids who graduate and still can't figure out how to solo a track in Pro Tools (true story). It is the latter that give the grads the bad reputation. I must say the Full Sail classes are not very hard at all and they make it very easy for people to pass, yet you still see people failing a basic Pro Tools class three times. The lack of admission requirements other than a high school diploma just contributes to this problem. They do give you a decent education but it is definitely not worth the amount they charge for it. I found that to get the best education out of your experience you need to spend as much time out of class as possible talking to instructors and putting in that extra effort to get your moneys worth. These are just my opinions but I feel they are fairly valid and as with all things you cant let a few bad stories represent a schools entire population.
You are contradicting yourself. If they give you a decent education like you say.. (don´t forget about job placement) which is help.. given to you after you graduate, whenever you want.. for life, oh and did you know that as a graduate you can go back and sit in at any class for life to ? Not that many people do it.. but to be honest with you, theres so much stuff I already forgot that it would be nice to be there again. Which I could, for NO charge. Anyways, if you think the education is decent why is it you think they charge to much ?? I personaly know of fullsail grad´s, that are charging 3k + a mix. Trust me, if fullsail got their foot in the door (which it did) , i´m sure they don´t regret paying whatever they did..

I will not argue the fact that 40k is alot of cash, it is.. but the fullsail experience is worth every penny.
Old 10th June 2006
  #102
Lives for gear
 
xmostynx's Avatar
 

why are you guys spending your time defending a school?

a school is a place where someone CAN get an education
not alot of people actualy DO

i went to the art institute for video
i didn't do a damn thing in video
i hung out in the studio and got kids to come in so i can learn how to engineer-caught the eyes of a few experienced teachers who where also excellent engineers-and now i can't run a video camera but i can kick ass in the studio!

haha its what YOU give-not what the school has to give-
why are all these GS posts bitching?!-ahh! i forgot we are in the moan zone...damn
Old 10th June 2006
  #103
Lives for gear
 
brian_delizza's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
You are contradicting yourself. If they give you a decent education like you say.. (don´t forget about job placement) which is help.. given to you after you graduate, whenever you want.. for life, oh and did you know that as a graduate you can go back and sit in at any class for life to ? Not that many people do it.. but to be honest with you, theres so much stuff I already forgot that it would be nice to be there again. Which I could, for NO charge. Anyways, if you think the education is decent why is it you think they charge to much ?? I personaly know of fullsail grad´s, that are charging 3k + a mix. Trust me, if fullsail got their foot in the door (which it did) , i´m sure they don´t regret paying whatever they did..

I will not argue the fact that 40k is alot of cash, it is.. but the fullsail experience is worth every penny.
I should have clarified myself better, they give you a decent education, but if you work for it you can get an excellent one. I agree the ability to audit a class at any time is the greatest thing I have seen offered by any program because it allows you to go back in the future and update yourself on the current technology in the industry.
Old 10th June 2006
  #104
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmostynx
why are you guys spending your time defending a school?
because this school has helped many many kids get a place in this very hard to get into industry. And some people (read bad managers/owners) like to blame it for their incompetence.
Old 10th June 2006
  #105
Gear Head
 
DanRather's Avatar
 

as a young person myselfand trying to start a job as and engineer. I think we deserve a chance. I did not go to fullsail I went to another trade school. Even tho their are a lot of idiots that come out of these school. if you have problem with new grads get over it. Just because one person is bad does not mean the others will. the problem I have with fullsail is theyy excpt so many people without event screening them. They just take their money. This school is the primary problem of saturating the industry. fuuck
Old 10th June 2006
  #106
Gear Head
 
DanRather's Avatar
 

one thing I like about my school. Is our teacher reaLLY SHOWED US THAT WE DONT KNOW ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Drew Mazurek
Old 10th June 2006
  #107
Gear Head
 
DanRather's Avatar
 

one thing I like about my school. Is our teacher reaLLY SHOWED US THAT WE DONT KNOW ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Drew
Old 11th June 2006
  #108
Gear Head
 
FSPirate's Avatar
 

In the end, I think that people who blackball FS grads in their facilities are being a little close-minded. I'm not saying hire or even interview every grad who sends you a resume. However, giving the blanket term "no FS grads" and refusing to even consider someone just because they come from Full Sail isn't fair or good for anyone, including the employer. You could be passing up the greatest employee you'd ever have, or you could be saving yourself from the worst. As I've said before, what bothers me most is the idea that I'll be denied certain opportunities to prove myself just because some other guy screwed up and happened to go to the same school as me.

The only consistent point I've seen here is that the diploma doesn't matter. I agree completely. If it weren't the only real credentials I'll have, I'd tear up my diploma as soon as I got it.
However, I'm also seeing a lot of hypocrisy here. "A person's education doesn't matter, it's their personality and ability to work well in this industry that counts. But I'll be damned if I hire a Full Sail graduate." Does this seem a little contradictory to anyone else?

I'm not here to make enemies or piss anyone off, hell, I may end up trying to work for one of you guys someday, but I find the lack of reason absolutely incredible.

I went to Full Sail because I had enough money saved up to afford it and I didn't want to walk into an internship or starter position COMPLETELY green and having to start learning from scratch. I wanted an education so that I could get a tiny bit of a jump start and not have to learn EVERYTHING on the job. The way I see it is that my education will never stop, but this whole "degree" thing gave me a starting point.

I just can't believe that ANYONE would lay down a policy in which a particular group (be it FS grads, Berklee grads, Cubans, WHATEVER) aren't even allowed to ring the doorbell. That's like saying "A cat scratched me once, so now I'm going to punch every cat I ever run across, because they all obviously deserve it."
Old 11th June 2006
  #109
Gear Addict
 

Yes, true, but you'll find an equal amount of stock investors who won't hire
a runner because said runner's college team kicked the crap out said stock investor's team in the year of 1967. The world is like that, y'know.
Old 11th June 2006
  #110
Gear Head
 
FSPirate's Avatar
 

Yes, the world IS like that. I don't see that as a reason to sit back and allow it to remain that way. If I can do something to change people's minds about Full Sail, or at least give us an opportunity, I will.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not motivated by the fact that I just loooooovvveee my fellow students (which I don't, we're ALL on the same page that there are a lot of morons here). This negative attitude towards Full Sail has a chance to directly affect me and the friends I've made here. The morons can keep going out and screwing things up, and end up managing a fast food joint. That's their fault, and I sympathize with the employer who had to put up with them (although they probably should have screened a little more in depth during the interviews and looking at different resumes).

I'm no genius, but I'm a fairly good learner. By the time I finish this program, I'll be prepared to start an internship and a little project studio in the spare room. Thats what I expected from this school, and it's what I'm getting. Sure, I may feel confident enough to do more than intern, but everyone has to start somewhere and I'd rather start small and do well than try to jump the gun only to shoot myself in the foot. I'm not the only person with this kind of attitude, out of the 90 or so kids in my class (Rob, correct me if that number is incorrect), I would estimate that 20-30 of them are good, decent people with a well rounded personality and generally pleasant disposition.
Of the remaining 60 or 70, there are maybe 15-20 that I don't really know and wouldn't feel comfortable describing. Its my guess that the remainder are going to be those cocky guys who think they're the next big thing and end up pissing off a lot of people.


Okay, here's a scenario:

You get a phone call one day from a young man/woman asking about interning at your studio. You ask them where they're from, how old they are, blah blah blah, and then get to questions like "so do you have any experience" and they start naming a few things they've done on their own, and eventually get to the fact that they attended Full Sail. So far, they've been very friendly, but sound a little nervous. The last FS grad you had as an intern told a diva she was never going to nail this take and she left the room crying, and you fired the intern. What do you say to this completely unrelated case on the phone?
Old 12th June 2006
  #111
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSPirate
In the end, I think that people who blackball FS grads in their facilities are being a little close-minded. I'm not saying hire or even interview every grad who sends you a resume. However, giving the blanket term "no FS grads" and refusing to even consider someone just because they come from Full Sail isn't fair or good for anyone, including the employer. You could be passing up the greatest employee you'd ever have, or you could be saving yourself from the worst. As I've said before, what bothers me most is the idea that I'll be denied certain opportunities to prove myself just because some other guy screwed up and happened to go to the same school as me.

The only consistent point I've seen here is that the diploma doesn't matter. I agree completely. If it weren't the only real credentials I'll have, I'd tear up my diploma as soon as I got it.
However, I'm also seeing a lot of hypocrisy here. "A person's education doesn't matter, it's their personality and ability to work well in this industry that counts. But I'll be damned if I hire a Full Sail graduate." Does this seem a little contradictory to anyone else?

I'm not here to make enemies or piss anyone off, hell, I may end up trying to work for one of you guys someday, but I find the lack of reason absolutely incredible.

I went to Full Sail because I had enough money saved up to afford it and I didn't want to walk into an internship or starter position COMPLETELY green and having to start learning from scratch. I wanted an education so that I could get a tiny bit of a jump start and not have to learn EVERYTHING on the job. The way I see it is that my education will never stop, but this whole "degree" thing gave me a starting point.

I just can't believe that ANYONE would lay down a policy in which a particular group (be it FS grads, Berklee grads, Cubans, WHATEVER) aren't even allowed to ring the doorbell. That's like saying "A cat scratched me once, so now I'm going to punch every cat I ever run across, because they all obviously deserve it."

don't listen to people. most people talk a big game especially people that speak in negatives. the best part about the negators are that they usually haven't done **** yet there alway so quick to point out neither can you. speak to a successful person who never went to school, bill gates, steve jobs, michael dell, ted turner, and they will tell you that schooling is important if you want to be a slave to this system. sure get your degree and work hard, i went to a design school that wasn't tops, and alot of people said that your not going to do this that and the latter, all that talk is 1 thing.. fuel to prove them wrong. you can go to harvard or a community college you will get out of it what you put in.

truth be told MOST of the stuff you use in the REAL world you NEVER learn in school.
people who hire want to see your personality if you can think on your toes and if you will bring them some assets. after 2 years in the working world, your education means little. there are some people however in this society that believe that education is the ONLY key to the world, yet there are so many poor scholars...go figure. school doesn't prepare you for **** honestly. you prepare yourself, i think personally i have a better education from the massive amount of reading i have done over the past 15 years than from all the thesis, and portfolio reviews i've ever had.

with that being said, put your horse blinders on, and don't listen to anything but your own brain telling you how succesful you will be in the near future... good luck bro.
Old 12th June 2006
  #112
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSPirate
...90 or so kids in my class...
Damn! what month are you in? when i graaduated there last year there was 20-30 people who finished. there was 50% who didnt know ****. 30% of the other 50 had no people skills. Of the remaining 20%, half of them are working in studios. Including me.
Old 12th June 2006
  #113
Gear Head
 
FSPirate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Fatso
Damn! what month are you in? when i graaduated there last year there was 20-30 people who finished. there was 50% who didnt know ****. 30% of the other 50 had no people skills. Of the remaining 20%, half of them are working in studios. Including me.

We're in Advanced Workstations and Entertainment Business and Law. I'm still amazed that some of these guys have made it so far. I will admit that a few of the guys who I had figured for failure did surprise me and turn out to be fairly cool people, but that's a very small number compared to the big picture. I like being proven wrong about people, it's refreshing. I may have estimated wrong, but we definitely have a very large class. When I go to lecture today I will ask the instructor how many people are in our class.
Old 12th June 2006
  #114
Gear Addict
 

While you're there, ask about microphone placement. Ask a whole lot of questions about microphone placement.

You're really going to hate me the next couple of weeks, but I gotta do it for
the sake of integrity. You'll see.
Old 13th June 2006
  #115
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Fatso
Damn! what month are you in? when i graaduated there last year there was 20-30 people who finished.

When did you go? I think about 60 graduated in my class, of a starting class of 130 or something....can't remember exactly.
Old 13th June 2006
  #116
Gear Maniac
 

i graduated in feb 2005. now that i think of it though there were 30 in my class plus an additional 30 in the afternoon class. i always forgot about them since i never saw them. so i graduated with 60 people. also i was off in my percentages. i said 10% got real jobs. but its actually 6 people not 3. in my class at least. cant speak for the other class.
Old 13th June 2006
  #117
Gear Addict
 
emreyazgin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
Quite right, you do need to learn which end of the XLR plugs into the mic... you do need to learn all the basic common sense techniques. No one is born knowing this.

But my point is... the flash of inspiration that lifts any old ordinary recording of a guitar into the realm of timelessness and exaltation, the unconventional compression technique that glues the band together, the decision to roll tape when this is only a "warm-up"... all this and more, the impulse to go with the happy accident...

All this can be taught after the fact, as examples, but to create these things from scratch, you need to have an innovative and exploratory frame of mind. To achieve something that no one is expecting, you need to leave the rules behind.

The real world rewards these kinds of breathroughs handsomely. Does the school environment?

I can clearly see your point, but in my opinion, schools -by their nature- are the places to set some ground rules. This is true for any discipline not only sound engineering or music etc. If you want to become an architect you need to learn the basics, theory behind things. After you are graduated, you are free to "break" the rules with the knowledge of what you are actually breaking.

I am sure centuries ago when first medical schools were started to be built there were discussions just like this one. I can hear them talking, "Do we really need these schools, we can already treat sick people with the traditional techniques we learnt from our masters!.."....

I still beleive that school is a good place to learn the subject in an organized way. However i also beleive that real world experience is even more important complement to theory. However i can never understand thinking that schools inheritly are bad mediums for learning a discpipline properly!?!

best
emre
Old 13th June 2006
  #118
Gear Addict
 

Unless, of course, they are a bad school.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh.
Old 13th June 2006
  #119
Gear Addict
 
emreyazgin's Avatar
oh of course..bad schools are bad.. totally agree
Old 13th June 2006
  #120
Gear Addict
 
emreyazgin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
I was dreaming, clearly, that someone graduating from a "recording school" could handle a very simple recording job. I MEAN WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE ALL DAY LONG?

But we never even got to that point. The metaphor I fall back on is: If you wanted to become President of the United States... would you search for a school that offered a course in "Becoming President Of the United States" and take the course, hoping it would work?

That's my disillusioning take on this whole issue... working in recording is like the anti-school, nothing about the format, orientation, or most significantly absence of any consequences in "school" will prepare you for the real world.
I guess seeing any form of creative work as a nonscholar, anti-school or whatever wording it is, is not right. While recording is already a debate whether or not it is a form of art, scholars of art studies such as artists, composers, writers all get a formal academic education for their relevant subject. I don't understand why simple, systematic, academic and proper theoretical approach to learning a subject is limiting if you don't limit yourself by taking your formal education as hardrules?

Schools are natural consequences of the progression of a discipline. Maybe i miss some points, are you saying that Full Sail is a bad school? or are you saying that schools are bad? or any kind of school related with arts or music is bad?
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