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Full Sail Graduates Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 31st May 2006
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaytex
That sums it up perfect! There are a lot of good engineers at FS but there are 20 **** engineers for every good one. The problem is that FS is a business not a real school. They own the entire damn town of Winter Park practically so When you buy you're beer at the Ale House next door they get you're money, same for the grocery store and the 6 apartments in the area which they will gladly recommend to you. They are snakes in the grass if you ask me. I'm not trying to piss on FS, but you would be wise to look at alternative froms of education to get into this industry. Just walk in any studio in town drop $10,000 and say I want to sit in the corner for the next 3 months and make you're coffee while you record people.
Good luck to you all.

Where did you get that info man. UCF is 2 miles away and has 36,000 students. It is one of the largest schools in the country. Full Sail is located on the edge of Winter Park in a relatively poor area compared to the rest of Winter Park. If you've been to the real Winter Park you would know Full Sail doesn't come close to owning it. It is filled with million dollar houses with uber rich lawyers and doctors. When I went there they recomended about 30 different appartment complexes. As far as I know they didn't own any of them. I certainly don't know that for a fact but during the year I was there never even heard that as a rumor. The college is very rich as uses some pretty slimy advertising but we paid the asking price they certainly didn't force us.

There is absolutely no way of getting the education that a real studio provides but that is the same in any industry. With the company I work with I have hired and interviewd grads from FullSail, MTSU, Conservatory, Belmont, SAE, and Berkley. I have not once noticed a discerable difference between the aquired eduction. The only difference is in the actual grad. I by far do not have any romantic story about my work history but during the 5+ years I have been out of school have not had even a week that I was out of work.

Steve
Old 31st May 2006
  #32
I made the innocent mistake of contacting Full Sail once and asking if they could recommend to me someone in my area who might be able to handle live recording gigs when I couldn't be two places at once.

BIG mistake.

I told whoever I talked to, flat out, I wanted them to "screen" people and only refer the ones with a good attitude and a bit of professionalism.

I WAS HOUNDED FOR WEEKS BY THE LAMEST BUNCH OF MORONS I EVER HOPE TO HEAR ON MY ANSWERING MACHINE.

I'll spare you the details--but these cats were straight out of a bad Seinfeld episode. Totally, balls-naked morons.

And that is the only experience I've had with the place.
Old 31st May 2006
  #33
Gear Head
 
FSPirate's Avatar
 

I've heard a rumor recently that Full Sail is going to somehow raise its entrance requirements. Seeing as they only have a cash requirement for us now, I suppose anything would be an improvement. My friends and I have heard several different rumors, but so far the one that comes up most is the idea of some kind of one-time entrance exam. I don't think it will be terrible difficult, but it might help thin the gene pool a little bit.

This, of course, is yet to be proven and there has been no official word (that we've come across) confirming or even mentioning the rumors. Personally, I doubt they'd do it, I'm sure they wouldn't want to exclude any prospective bank accounts (I mean students). Don't get me wrong, I love the school, but as many of you said, it is a BUSINESS first and foremost.
Old 31st May 2006
  #34
I think the true crime is that they prey on people with romantic delusions about "the industry" and cater to pathetic types who think they can buy their way into "cool."

Other than that, I'm sure they're a fine bunch of folks.
Old 31st May 2006
  #35
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nethereyes
dfegad $60,000 US dollars to learn how to be an assistant.
we could argue that paying 100k+ for a porsche is crazy to. As you probably think, it´s just a car.
Old 31st May 2006
  #36
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
I think the true crime is that they prey on people with romantic delusions about "the industry" and cater to pathetic types who think they can buy their way into "cool."

Other than that, I'm sure they're a fine bunch of folks.
hey wait a minute are you saying i´m not cool ?????!!!
Old 31st May 2006
  #37
Jose-- YOU are the exception that proves the rule!
Old 31st May 2006
  #38
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djui5's Avatar
 

are any of us "cool"?

This Full Sail hatred cracks me up. It's like banishing MicroSoft because they are a big company....ppppffttt...
Old 31st May 2006
  #39
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what does lab mean in full sail?

are students requier to record bands or is it optional?

hhow many bands or what type of projects are they in fullsail?

where does the students get the tracks to mix?

besides the school 2 miles away (UCF), how, where , why and how often a fullsail student finds bands to record? well.. including UCF.

if they record UCF bands... on what is the project grade based upon? and does UCF have any relation to full sail or do they requier certain classes to be recorded in fullsail studios?
Old 31st May 2006
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
Jose-- YOU are the exception that proves the rule!

That seems like such a flimsy statement, I have worked with plenty of people who graduated from Full Sail who have turned into respected professionals. How on earth is Full Sail creating unprofessional graduates? What exactly do you think that a school like SAE would be doing that is different? I've spoke to many who graduated from other schools and never heard of any major differences in the curriculums.

I am not sure why you were attempting to hire recent grads from a 1 year college to what seems like a very professional job. I guess what I'm saying is why were you trying to hire recent grads to do real work. Our last intern was from MTSU and didn't know what threshold was on a compressor. On the other hand a friend of mine is a very successful engineer in Nashville who graduated there. I can't ever imagine hiring a fresh grad of any school.

Steve
Old 31st May 2006
  #41
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers
what does lab mean in full sail?

are students requier to record bands or is it optional?

hhow many bands or what type of projects are they in fullsail?

where does the students get the tracks to mix?

besides the school 2 miles away (UCF), how, where , why and how often a fullsail student finds bands to record? well.. including UCF.

if they record UCF bands... on what is the project grade based upon? and does UCF have any relation to full sail or do they requier certain classes to be recorded in fullsail studios?
Lab=Labroatory. Essentially each hour of classroom experience is accomponied by and hour of studio or "hands on experice.


Q: are students requier to record bands or is it optional?

A: Required. The bands submit themselves to the college in order to obtain free recording time.


Q: where does the students get the tracks to mix?


A: During the recording projects you mix the stuff you record. Most of the mixing actually occurs on cheap little consoles and DAW systems. Like any school you are required to do allot less than you really get to do if you put the effort in. There are also tons of tracks available to mix that are archived on ADAT's DVD's Analog, etc...


Q:besides the school 2 miles away (UCF), how, where , why and how often a fullsail student finds bands to record? well.. including UCF.

A: Hard to say. they keep you pretty busy with the schedule they have for you. An average month has a course schedule about 3 times heavier than a normal 15-20 credit hour college.


Q: if they record UCF bands... on what is the project grade based upon? and does UCF have any relation to full sail or do they requier certain classes to be recorded in fullsail studios?[/QUOTE]

A: That would be a long anwer. Grading if I remember was based up gear knowledge routing, automation, patching, archival, computer knowledge, recall, midi,it goes on and on. Of course 50% is based on book work stuff. I never experienced any relation to Full Sail and UCF. Although there were certainly plenty of cute girls there. Unlike the stag party they call a recording college.


Steve
Old 31st May 2006
  #42
I was dreaming, clearly, that someone graduating from a "recording school" could handle a very simple recording job. I MEAN WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE ALL DAY LONG?

But we never even got to that point. The metaphor I fall back on is: If you wanted to become President of the United States... would you search for a school that offered a course in "Becoming President Of the United States" and take the course, hoping it would work?

That's my disillusioning take on this whole issue... working in recording is like the anti-school, nothing about the format, orientation, or most significantly absence of any consequences in "school" will prepare you for the real world.
Old 31st May 2006
  #43
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers
what does lab mean in full sail?

are students requier to record bands or is it optional?

hhow many bands or what type of projects are they in fullsail?

where does the students get the tracks to mix?

besides the school 2 miles away (UCF), how, where , why and how often a fullsail student finds bands to record? well.. including UCF.

if they record UCF bands... on what is the project grade based upon? and does UCF have any relation to full sail or do they requier certain classes to be recorded in fullsail studios?
many bands want to record there because the studios are top notch. probably some of the best rooms in central florida . I don´t remember any bands coming in from UCF. I remember some even coming from out of state though.

labs are the sessions (with no more than 6 students) , recording and mixing bands. grades are based on assistant tasks. console set up, routing, automation, blablabla you either can or cant do what was asked. And graded respectively.


oops someone beat me to it : )
Old 31st May 2006
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
I was dreaming, clearly, that someone graduating from a "recording school" could handle a very simple recording job. I MEAN WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE ALL DAY LONG?

But we never even got to that point. The metaphor I fall back on is: If you wanted to become President of the United States... would you search for a school that offered a course in "Becoming President Of the United States" and take the course, hoping it would work?

That's my disillusioning take on this whole issue... working in recording is like the anti-school, nothing about the format, orientation, or most significantly absence of any consequences in "school" will prepare you for the real world.

There are plenty of simple jobs that I would not hire a newly graduated college student to do. Full Sail guys go to school for one year. Compare that to someone who has a masters in English Literature. After they obtain there masters they usually spend years working at libraries, working as teachers aids, and substatuting. It's a college and there isn't a single one that's spitting out seasoned pro's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson

That's my disillusioning take on this whole issue... working in recording is like the anti-school, nothing about the format, orientation, or most significantly absence of any consequences in "school" will prepare you for the real world.

You are absolutely right about the lack of consequence. That is the same in any industry. What does a PHD of psychology learn about understanding patients suicidal tendencies? He learns the tools to understand how to diagnose but until he/she has done the job they understand nothing about that kind “real world” experience. As I have experienced in this industry most of us are still far from the real world.
Old 31st May 2006
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
I was dreaming, clearly, that someone graduating from a "recording school" could handle a very simple recording job. I MEAN WHAT DO THEY DO IN THERE ALL DAY LONG?



That's my disillusioning take on this whole issue... working in recording is like the anti-school, nothing about the format, orientation, or most significantly absence of any consequences in "school" will prepare you for the real world.
Yes you should be prepared to handle a simple recording session from day one. Will it sound good ? probably not.. but that´s experience.

Why do you think it doesn´t prepare you for the real world ? it´s not rocket science. It´s just recording music man, after all if the musicians are good and you know simple mic technique, recording music (with no offense to our superstars around here) is only about pressing the red button and talking on the talk back , or is there some quantum physics i´m not aware of ?
Old 31st May 2006
  #46
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by primalsteve
Lab=Labroatory. Essentially each hour of classroom experience is accomponied by and hour of studio or "hands on experice.


Q: are students requier to record bands or is it optional?

A: Required. The bands submit themselves to the college in order to obtain free recording time.


Q: where does the students get the tracks to mix?


A: During the recording projects you mix the stuff you record. Most of the mixing actually occurs on cheap little consoles and DAW systems. Like any school you are required to do allot less than you really get to do if you put the effort in. There are also tons of tracks available to mix that are archived on ADAT's DVD's Analog, etc...


Q:besides the school 2 miles away (UCF), how, where , why and how often a fullsail student finds bands to record? well.. including UCF.

A: Hard to say. they keep you pretty busy with the schedule they have for you. An average month has a course schedule about 3 times heavier than a normal 15-20 credit hour college.


Q: if they record UCF bands... on what is the project grade based upon? and does UCF have any relation to full sail or do they requier certain classes to be recorded in fullsail studios?
A: That would be a long anwer. Grading if I remember was based up gear knowledge routing, automation, patching, archival, computer knowledge, recall, midi,it goes on and on. Of course 50% is based on book work stuff. I never experienced any relation to Full Sail and UCF. Although there were certainly plenty of cute girls there. Unlike the stag party they call a recording college.


Steve[/QUOTE]



seems fine to me. maybe is the one guy who didnt care and gave a bad name to full sail. same w berklee, harvard snobs etc.

i think for a recording school to be good, you outa record lots of diferent bands in diferent situations on diferent gear. usually is learning the basics. mics, DAWs, consoles, pres, processing...
then to be good at it is up to the student. practicing , learning etc.
same as any carrier.
for business college,. u learn basics of corporations and other business, but to graduate and to open up a business and be sucesfull is up to the person itself.
Old 31st May 2006
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
YWhy do you think it doesn´t prepare you for the real world ?
The priorities out in the real world place a real value on... what is the word... subversiveness? Getting a great performance on tape is all about breaking rules, of tapping into your own and everyone else's sense of... hidden joy, or something. I would think that the guy the teacher is always pissed off at, for using gear beyond the alotted time, for telling his classmates when appropriate to shut the **** up, for taking command of a situation in an innovative way and defying convention... okay, if that's the guy who graduates with honors, I take it all back.
Old 31st May 2006
  #48
Lives for gear
 

i love living near full sail and scoring on craigslist when tuitions due
Old 31st May 2006
  #49
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oh, and having local bands put their full sail free recording session demos online for a laugh
Old 31st May 2006
  #50
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
Getting a great performance on tape is all about breaking rules,
since when ?? I thought the great performance was attributed to the mmmm how do you call them ......ummmm PERFORMERS!!!!!

plus, all of the rules where broken/invented back in the day. What recording techniques (aside from the we will fix it in the mix) rules are being broken today??

Experience is one thing, but the knowhow of basics are learned in school, from a book, from gearslutz.com... but you need to learn them somewhere ? some people choose a physical school.
Old 31st May 2006
  #51
Quite right, you do need to learn which end of the XLR plugs into the mic... you do need to learn all the basic common sense techniques. No one is born knowing this.

But my point is... the flash of inspiration that lifts any old ordinary recording of a guitar into the realm of timelessness and exaltation, the unconventional compression technique that glues the band together, the decision to roll tape when this is only a "warm-up"... all this and more, the impulse to go with the happy accident...

All this can be taught after the fact, as examples, but to create these things from scratch, you need to have an innovative and exploratory frame of mind. To achieve something that no one is expecting, you need to leave the rules behind.

The real world rewards these kinds of breathroughs handsomely. Does the school environment?
Old 31st May 2006
  #52
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson
Quite right, you do need to learn which end of the XLR plugs into the mic... you do need to learn all the basic common sense techniques. No one is born knowing this.

But my point is... the flash of inspiration that lifts any old ordinary recording of a guitar into the realm of timelessness and exaltation, the unconventional compression technique that glues the band together, the decision to roll tape when this is only a "warm-up"... all this and more, the impulse to go with the happy accident...

All this can be taught after the fact, as examples, but to create these things from scratch, you need to have an innovative and exploratory frame of mind. To achieve something that no one is expecting, you need to leave the rules behind.

The real world rewards these kinds of breathroughs handsomely. Does the school environment?
You seem to have a problem with the sig ¨real world education¨ more than anything else. School will never be the real world for many reasons. If that´s why you have a bad attitude towards fullsail, then cool I understand. Do people go there because of their sig line ?? I don´t think so, and if they do.. they are not very smart to begin with.
Old 1st June 2006
  #53
Gear Head
 
FSPirate's Avatar
 

breaking the rules

As far as the unconventional being rewarded in school, that depends on the individual teacher and student. Some of the teachers here, notably the ones who have some actual "real world experience" and came to the school from the industry and not from within the school (i.e. the lab instructor who was hired immediately after graduation and has no other dreams or projects), are the ones who enjoy seeing new and strange things. Some of the lab "specialists" get pissed off when you don't do things their way. I must have been lucky so far, my lab instructors have all been very good people who share their stories of rule-breaking and encourage us to try "that wierd **** everyone else says will suck" (to quote one instructor).

One of the most ridiculous things I've heard here is a twist on the FullSail tag line "We take your dreams seriously." Instead, its "Full Sail took my dreams.... SERIOUSLY." Thats a load of crap. If you're working at Taco Bell with a degree in recording arts, then you just didn't take your dreams seriously enough to keep at them and make the systems work for you.

I'm not so angry at anyone who hates on Full Sail because of a bad experience with a grad. I AM frusturated with the graduates who CAUSE these reactions. My concern is fighting this stigma and making damned sure it doesn't try to hold me back. Getting fired because I'm an idiot wouldn't give me the right to be angry (not to say that I'm an idiot by any means), but not having the OPPORTUNITY to be or not be that idiot just because some other moron gave Full Sail that reputation would give me a right to be angry. That is what I'm trying to make sure doesn't happen. I suppose, as was stated by another poster, that much of the responsibilty falls on the employer in the interview. It's our job to do well in an interview, and the interviewers job to interview well.
Old 1st June 2006
  #54
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

don´t worry about it. studio managers at high end facilities are not stupid. they look for personality, someone who will get along with the staff and be able to handle being around celebritys and stuff. Plus you will be doing food runs for a while before even touching a fader. that´s their way of knowing who you are and if you are trustworthy. they know it´s got nothing to do with the school you went to.

The plus for you, is that you have some sort of knowledge on high end consoles and gear, and also you are not coming from the street. Coming out of fullsail is a big advantage in the high end world. The ones who bitch and moan about it , are mostly people who build their own rooms and record indie bands. They want to hire people who will replace them when they want to take a day off. High end facilities work differently, and I assure you that having fullsail on your resume is a plus.
Old 1st June 2006
  #55
Gear Nut
 

I have hired many FS grads over the years and grads from ARTI, Valencia (Orlando college) and others. All these schools have a lion's share of numbsculls (is that how you spell it?) but I find that if I carefully screen resumes, call in the few that I think could work, and give my surprise Pro Tools test, I can find the person I'm looking for.

Most of the bad rap comes from the attitude. A lot of them think they know more than you and will let you know it. I can usually fix that by giving them my test. All of a sudden they realize they may know what a dB is, but they don't know how this knowledge (that they have just paid for) relates to a real project's workflow.

Though I have had FS grads that could not boot the computer (really!), there are always a few that will make it. And lets face it: to work full-time in this field is quite the accomplishment.

If you're a FS grad, don't be a jerk. Be humble and soak up every bit of knowledge you can. One day you will own your studio business and be totally responsable for its success or failure. But until then, you have a ton to learn.

P.S. You don't have to go to school to make beats.

David Brown
Old 1st June 2006
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

I see this topic all the time. You always hear about the bad apples more then the success stories. If you snoop around on the Full Sail site, you'll find a list of very successful engineers.

As a grad myself, I landed myself a gig about 8 months after starting to intern. Don't worry. Work hard, don't live up to the stigma. Most people don't care about where you went to school. They just want you to work hard, be smart and helpful. Everything you'll need to know about how to act you'll pick up quickly, then you'll learn the craft, which is the most rewarding part.
Old 1st June 2006
  #57
Gear Head
 

In my OPINIONS:

Full Sail's price tag was way too high at the time I was going to go.
I work with two FS graduates at an online music retail store. One worked in some big studios, with fairly big named artists, the other did not. Both are very wise and knowledgeable about audio.


for almost 2 straight years I researched and collected info on FS, I contacted every local studio around me, and in a couple of other areas I desired to live in, (probabally 20 different studios) only 2 said that they had no problem hiring a FS grad as an intern. all the others refused. Of course about 6-7 would not accept interns in general.

The main thing after all this that turned me off, was that I would get brochures and magazines from FS and as i thumbed through a 'where are they now' of about 20-25 FSG's that had nice careers, compared to booklets and paper's I'd get stating that nearly 200 were simply in GC or samash retail stores!!!


I knew I could get a job at a retail store w/o much effort especially not a $40,000 education
Old 1st June 2006
  #58
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full sail grads are great (at ordering lunch, making starbucks runs, etc...)\
Old 2nd June 2006
  #59
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chezero's Avatar
 

School is definitely what you make of it. If you can afford it, and you take advantage of it, more power to you. If not, you can also do it on your own. Either route can work just fine. It just depends on what you really want and how much you are willing to work/sacrifice for it.

There are idiots everywhere, by the way. I think people get down on schools like Full Sail because the idiots who do go there, or any school for that matter, sometimes come out feeling like they have the right to be at a certain level. It's annoying to deal with someone who feels like they know everything and has to talk about it constantly. Humility is key, I think...even if you do know everything.

One thing I will say, is that it is damn expensive! If you're going to take out a loan or sell a kidney to become an audio engineer, you might want to think twice. Lot's of studios are having a really hard time right now, and most people do not make tons, or even decent money being an engineer. The only way to truly break into this, is just to do it any way possible, and keep doing it.

I don't understand why anyone would bash anything to the extent that some people have been bashing Full Sail???
Old 2nd June 2006
  #60
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I wouldn't pay $40K for a degree, unless it was an MBA (who would make that back easily in less than a year). Anyone that does is an idiot, pure and simple.
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