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Ashlee Simpson and the hidden agenda Dynamics Plugins
Old 24th May 2006
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
ASHlee isn't pretending to be Wagner, she's just doing her thing, just as Wagner did his thing.

If you don't like it, ya so ?? Move on, listen to some Tull or something.

Thick As a Brick is pretty cool, and after all these years I still don't have a clue to what the lyrics are about. But I like the way it sounds, it's entertainment, ya know, not rocket science. It doesn't have to be intellectually satisfying, just has to have a nice groove, beat, sound, something to listen to, to keep the silence away.

You see, I have my own mind, my own thoughts, I don't need some stoned out musician/songwriter who thinks he's smarter than me, telling me who I should vote for, what charities to give money to, which war I should or should not fight. So instrumental music works well for me.

So just shut up and play !!!!!
dude, i TOTALLY agree with you. i see your points, and think you're totally on the ball.

just a few things - i am not:

a) stoned out

b) a hippy musician

c) i don't think i'm smarter than you, at all - i don't even KNOW you. for all i know, you're WAAAYYYYYY smarter than I AM

d) i happen to think the asslee record is pretty hooky,
and well-produced, just like the zep stuff was, way back when.
However, i wouldn't pay to see her live, because she probably sucks,
just like zeppelin did most of the time.

which is my WHOLE POINT here

and, finally,

e) i do not think asslee is trying to be wagner. she probably has no clue as to wagner's existence. if wagner were alive, i'm pretty sure he would, likewise, be as uninterested in her 'art-products' - for a VARIETY of reasons. i'm not trying to be snide - these are two VERY different mediums. asslee gives the people something to tap their feet to (of which i'm TOTALLY guilty), and wagner gives you something to disembowel your neighbors in public to (although, come to think of it, hannibal's preference of mozart as hindergrund for human carving might be more telling heh).

carry on, lads
Old 24th May 2006
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60
limit someone's choices and they will still feel as thought they chose their path.
little will they know they were simply led.
well said.
Old 24th May 2006
  #123
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60
limit someone's choices and they will still feel as thought they chose their path.
little will they know they were simply led.
well said.

asslee or zep -

choose your personality
Old 24th May 2006
  #124
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RobMacki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
you just limited them in your own statement
You obviously failed to read my entire post.
You also quoted me out of order, twisting my intent.
Who has the 'hidden agenda' here?
tutt
Old 24th May 2006
  #125
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But I did see Ashlee perform live and she put off a rockin show here in Cleveland. I was expecting maybe 200 people but there was around 3,000, it was sold out, and the concert went off without a hitch. The crowd absolutely loved her show. So if you are basing your judgement on Ashlee by the SNL and football game flubs, then you're not seeing the whole picture. She has her own crowd, just like Led Zepplin had theirs, Wagner has his, Micheal Jackson has his....the list goes on, there isn't one performer who is liked by everyone. Even Elvis had his critics.
Old 24th May 2006
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMacki
You obviously failed to read my entire post.
You also quoted me out of order, twisting my intent.
Who has the 'hidden agenda' here?
tutt
dude,

i'm just screwin' around with you.

don't be mad, i promise i'll never do it again heh .

and, yes, i did read your entire post.

it's just EVERYONE has an agenda - hidden, or not.

mine is NOT hidden - although, i'm not sure what it is -
maybe it's hidden from ME

oh yeah, zeppelin is really sloppy live,
and i'd just as soon pay to see asslee as zep.

since i'll never have the "privilege" of seeing zep (thank goodness),
and i'll never pay to see asslee, i guess i'm doin' aiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

: )
Old 24th May 2006
  #127
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Dude, you don't know what your missing. Ashlee Simspon concerts area real babe fest. As Garth and Wayne would say "Babe alert, Babe alert !!!!!"

Oooops, I almost forgot, there's weirdos on this forum that don't like females.
Old 24th May 2006
  #128
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwayne
Dude, you don't know what your missing. Ashlee Simspon concerts area real babe fest. As Garth and Wayne would say "Babe alert, Babe alert !!!!!"

Oooops, I almost forgot, there's weirdos on this forum that don't like females.
We like females. We just don't want anyone to "Present" Ashley Simpson's nose to us. We don't need that! WE DON'T NEED THAT !!

(Schwiiiing !)

DP
Old 24th May 2006
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish11
''what are you, fr*gg*n rimsky-korsakov, or john coltrane"


no I am not, but I also don't fancy myself the end all arbitrator of what is and is not acceptable, I just figured someone who was so adament in thier opinions of other musicians/producers must have quite a discography of their own, it appears I was wrong
dude,

relax.

this is just my opinion.

i don't fancy my self the supreme arbitor of anything.

i'm allowed to have an opinion.

anytime i voice anything against zeppelin or the beatles,
people get all up in arms - so, forget it.

you don't have to like or unlike anything.

and, no i didn't say i've done anything remotely as musically interesting as wagner or trane.

i'm not having a pissing contest with anyone.

i consider myself a fairly educated musician, songwriter and producer,
and i've worked with some really talented people,
and have my name on some major label records.

this is purely an observation that i feel compelled to voice everytime
i see the "too cool for school" pop musician bashing that goes on by most folks
who can't themsleves play, produce, arrange, or compose their way out of a paper bag.

i just find it incredibly ironic that these same people are so loyal to
other equally bad or shallow pop music that they just can't see past the marketing for.

i'm making a simple point:

if you're going to CRITICIZE asslee, as a live performing musician,

how the F&CK can you sit there and extol the "virtues" of one of the
SLOPPIEST ALL TIME WORST live bands in the history of pop music
(yes, this is POP music folks - hate to BREAK it to you) ????

this makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO ME!!

this is just nonsense.

and then, to top it all off, when people HAVE NO ARGUMENT,
they start pointing their fingers AT ME, and asking me what i've done.

well, let's make one thing perfectly clear,

I HAVEN'T ASKED ALL YOU M&THEF*CKERS FOR YOUR RESUMES, have i?

I'm just saying, we're all allowed our opinions.

I AM ALLOWED TO KNOW IN MY OWN MIND THAT, IN MY VERY OH SO HUMBLE
AND FAIRLY EDUCATED AND EXPERIENCED MUSICAL MIND,

LED ZEPPELIN WAS HORRID LIVE, at least a GIANT portion of their career.

and the irony here, again, is that this is the VERY SAME CRITICISM
of which asslee is standing accused.

someone, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE,
because I STILL DON'T have any idea, how zepelin can be cool,
and aslee can suck - if they BOTH suck

i don't need to be BETTER than chick corea in order to "get" his music,
or to notice how much more on top of his performance he is than page ever was.
and to top it all off - THE STUFF HE'S PLAYING IS LIGHTYEARS MORE DIFFICULT,
TO COMPOSE, ARRANEG AND EXECUTE.
CHICK'S AMAZING live - he doesn't f*ck up all his parts, and show up all f&cked up,
with a cigarette hanging out of the corner of his mouth,
his rhodes slung down below his frigg7n ass, missing all his notes
(like some zeppelin guitar players i've seen and heard do the same MANY, MANY times).

now, i realize this is apples and oranges, but i'm actually talking about MUSIC, not marketing.

with asslee and zep, you get TONS of "cool" marketing stuff - paraphrenalia of weird swans -
you don't even know what half the sh*t means - it's just "cooL".

NO, you buy a ticket to see chick corea, and he plays MUSIC to you,

not MARKETING.

CALL ME CRAZY, BUT I STRONGLY I BELIEVE IT IS IN THE MARKETING.

Compositionally, perkoviev has the strength of a THOUSAND zeppelins,
as do chick corea, allan holdsworth, john coltrane, imho.

the only rational explanation i can think of for the existence of led zeppelin,
is as a consumer toy for frustrated young boys,
who later go buy les paul copies at gc with their office job money,
and sit around and watch the super bowl with the zep dvd on in the background,
while they cry about the good ol' days.

obvioulsy, you guys are much smarter than me, though, apparently,
and are CLEARLY seeing something i'm not getting.

i got my flower i got my po-wer, i got my woman who knows.

Old 24th May 2006
  #130
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RobMacki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye

don't be mad, i promise i'll never do it again heh .

: )
dude, I'm not mad, I'm not 12, I don't care for Wagner, and the only reason I've been reading this silly little thread is for the entertainment value.



You are correct about one thing. Zeppelin was very slopy live but not as slopy as Aerosmith was at the LA Forum circa '77.

So what's my point?
Old 24th May 2006
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMacki
dude, I'm not mad, I'm not 12, I don't care for Wagner, and the only reason I've been reading this silly little thread is for the entertainment value.



You are correct about one thing. Zeppelin was very slopy live but not as slopy as Aerosmith was at the LA Forum circa '77.

So what's my point?

Drugs make you suck live?
Old 24th May 2006
  #132
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RobMacki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMacki
So what's my point?
What does Zeppelin and Aerosmith and the Stones and countless other bands from the '60s and '70s (who were also slopy live)
All have (had) in common...especially in the '70s?

Anyone?


(Jonboy79
you got it while I was posting)
Old 24th May 2006
  #133
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David Herbert's Avatar
 

I shouldn't really talk about this but...
When I lived in NY in the late 90s I had a girlfriend that attended Julliard. I was at the school a few times and met a young girl (probably about 8-10 years old) who was a singing and dancing prodigy. We talked, and she told me she wanted to have a career as a pop singer until the age of 25, make a lot of money, then quit the stage and spend the rest of her life travelling through Africa and using that money to help the poor. Most people chuckled behind their hand when they heard the young girl say this, but I didn't- I sensed something special, that she had the talent, the drive, and the vision to pull off her dream. I was then not too surprised when a few years later I saw that young girl had grown into the pop star she promised us all she would become: Ashlee Simpson.
So keep in mind next time you guys are making fun of Ashlee Simpson:
1. She's a Julliard-trained vocalist/dancer.
2. All those millions she is making are going to help solve the problem of poverty.
Kudos to that one wayne guy (not the weird wayne guy) for recognizing talent when he sees it. I hope he further feels proud that his money is going to later feed the poor.

David
Old 24th May 2006
  #134
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macr0w's Avatar
 

I have got some old Zeppelin live recordings that are allmost unlistenable. They are terrible. Plant is so out of key it's crazy and page sounds like he's on heroin(Oh wait, he was). The only thing keeping them from falling off the stage is John Bonham. And I'm a Zeppelin fan for sure. But every since Plant and Page refused to stand when Frank Zappa was inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of fame I have lost all respect for those guys. They suck on alot of levels. But they were good in the studio. heh
Flame on guys I can take it.heh
Old 24th May 2006
  #135
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Herbert
So keep in mind next time you guys are making fun of Ashlee Simpson:
1. She's a Julliard-trained vocalist/dancer.

Well then she should demand her money back heh

There is only so much you can do with tin ears like those.
Old 24th May 2006
  #136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Well then she should demand her money back heh

There is only so much you can do with tin ears like those.
you STILL haven't

a) AKNOWLEDGED the fact that zeppelin SUCKED live much of the time and

b) explained WHY, or HOW this is any DIFFERENT fom asslee live

THIS, i'd like to hear from you, since you're always bashing asslee.

i feel like all of us producers, recording engineers, singers, players, writers, arrangers, etc.
know EXACTLY why zep sucked so hard so much of the time.

the reasons aren't ANY different than the reasons asslee sucks live a lot of the time.

the chances of an artist and their sound crew getting EVERYTHING right,
including stage/ FOH monitoring and mixes, are near impossible,
especially, as we all know, in large venues.

also, translating all those guitar overdubs, sound effects, vocal and kybrd od's, bvs,
and getting the arrangements & parts REALLY right for a slamming live show is a TOUGH job.

not to mention rehearsals, etc.

so once, again, mr. guitar center, WHAT'S THE FR*GG*N DIFFERENCE??

if you say it's that the band played their own instruments live
- that's a REALLY bad argument, since:

a) page sucked live, much of the time (hate to break it to you,
but asslee's guitar players play in time and in tune - thank you, in-ear) and

b) plant didn't play any instruments, except fr*gg*n tamborine,
which, i might add, he SUCKED at

granted, plant had an amazing voice (albeit alomost EXCLUSIVELY on studio recordings),
NO DOUBT. SOME of the time, he actually managed to represent what he did live -
most of the time, NOT - he couldn't hit his notes, often sang WAYY out of tune,
and the over all tone of his voice just SUCKED.

again, i'm not saying this stuff is easy to DO live - i'm FULLY aware of how challanging
all this stuff is to pull off, especially if you're drunk or hung-over, dosing,
smoking like nobody's business, fighting with your label folks and monster managers and promoters,
delaing with personaly problems and relationships on the road,
orchestrating band business and travel logistics,
and constantly struggling with all of the above listed live monitoring problems.

i'm not saying i'm better than plant. or even asslee, or her band, or her writers or producers.
i'd like to think i'm not as sloppy as page (granted, page was innovative,
as guitar player, arranger, writer and producer for THAT kind of music).

again, though this was innovative 40 years ago, and it's still a lot of boom boom bap,
bar chords and baby, baby, yada, yada. all PERFECTLY designed to sell to 12 year old white boys.

i LOVED this sh&t when i was twelve.

the SAME way many twelve year old girls LOVE asslee now - imo, NO DIFFERENCE.

i still hold that the comnibation of zeppelin (pop rock producers and session musicians)
and asslee (all five of them) have ONLY a TINY FRACTION
of the actual musical talent and ability of ONE chick corea, or ONE
peter tchaikovsky, or ONE frank zappa, or ONE jaco pastorius, etc.

now i don't know about asslee's producers and writers - maybe they're a little farther along,
but, as has already been mentioned, this is not envelope-pushing music, musically
(compositionally or performance- wise) or sonically.

this is a thread about asslee, and i just hate it when the usual assortment
of helmet guitar center clones all jump up and cry, asslee sucks.
why? because she can't play idiot helmet rock, g bar chords on a les paul copy like you?

why? because she sings out of TUNE LIVE? LIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER POP AND ROCK SINGER
IN OUR HISTORY??? this is just nonsense.

wanna whole lotta love, wanna whole lotta love

gimmee a fr*kk&n break.

market the disposable music to the disposable income.

it's not rocket-science, and the more you argue the "virtues" of zep, the more you prove my point.

which is,

wanna whole lotta marketing, wanna whole lotta marketing

y'all felluz got baited, hook, line and sinker, juss like i did when i was 12
Old 24th May 2006
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macr0w
I have got some old Zeppelin live recordings that are allmost unlistenable. They are terrible. Plant is so out of key it's crazy and page sounds like he's on heroin(Oh wait, he was). The only thing keeping them from falling off the stage is John Bonham. And I'm a Zeppelin fan for sure. But every since Plant and Page refused to stand when Frank Zappa was inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of fame I have lost all respect for those guys. They suck on alot of levels. But they were good in the studio. heh
Flame on guys I can take it.heh
zappa, imo, was a REAL musician

iow, he spent more time focusing on the MUSIC,
and less on the sex and drugs, and "cool" marketing part of the equation -
my kinda free-thinking, intelligent, consciencious, and musical human being.
Old 24th May 2006
  #138
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

zeppelin kicks mozarts butt : )
Old 24th May 2006
  #139
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Donny and Marie Osmond, now there's some real talent, always sang on key, never used Autotune, had real musicians, had their own tv show, always wore nice clothes, no drug problems, always went to church on Sunday, had strong family values, why they should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

All you Ashlee and Led Zepplin haters ...break out the Donny and Marie albums, pour yourself a glass of milk, eat some cookies, and listen to your favorite music any time you want......now that's a party !!

This is what you want isn't it ????



I'll stick with Ash and Zep.
Old 24th May 2006
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
zeppelin kicks mozarts butt : )
only if you're a tone-deaf weasel.

the only person who would make a statement like this is someone who either doesn't KNOW,
or doesn't UNDERSTAND mozart, or doesn't KNOW or UNDERSTAND actual music
(minus the, obviously VERY successful, 12 year old pop radio campaign marketing part).

anyone of mozart's masses would kick all of zep's catalogue around the musical globe and back.

in under 30 seconds.

this includes EVERY aspect of the music, EXCEPT record production heh (1700's).

however, if mozart were alive, i'd bet my bottom dollar he trumps record production over page and kramer
(i have much repect for both of them - even though the sh*t is mad dated, at this point).
Old 24th May 2006
  #141
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the point is well taken, many rock acts sucked live, drugs, ego whatever.

for what its worth I saw chick corea at the grammies a couple of years ago, playing with a rock band, he TOTALLY sucked,
stomped all over a good song ZERO feeling for the tune,
over played, like an egomainic

just like some great composers plagerised simple folk melodies to use in what we now regard as the great classics, it is also true that some of the most memorible music, melodically, is very simple I-IV-V type stuff

in my opiniom it is also true that much jazz, especially the modern type is homoginized drivle, lacking any "soul"
what-so-ever - egonic-diarriha spewed forth in frothy
conformity of psuedo chicness

time will tell if ashlee will stand with the work of Page and Plant........ha ha ha (listen to some of Plants solo stuff)

for me i don't need time to qualitize the timelessness of
of some modern jazz, it's all the ****ing same and melodically much of it sucks, pure drivle

take motown, these writers weren't pushing the enevelope, yet their writing stands, classic work in its context

which is really what its about, context,
I have had "jazz" players puke the harmonic minor crap all over, good, simple melodies

opps....... edit that **** out, wrong place, wrong time

simple ain't always bad
talent on the other hand is always good
Old 24th May 2006
  #142
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ok this is the last thing i'll post on the matter.

i have bootlegs from every zep tour pretty much.

here is a brief summary:

69: raw, wild, and great. wailing high notes, amazing drumming, killer guitar work.

70: equally great with more cool material added to the set. check out the show from the last "DVD" release. the show from '70 is typical for a '70 show.

71: perhaps the best year. plant still has the high notes and page is full force. Immigrant song and Celebration day on the 12 string are great. bonham is still the rock, jones is contributing well on keys. he is no bach or jarret but it works.

72: just listen to the release "how the west was won". end of story. it rocks very hard. plant is just starting to lose the high notes here and there.

73: maybe the highlight for page. he is a little erratic at times but anyone who has heard the european tour (or even the soundtrack CD to the movie "the song remains the same") knows page did amazing work this year. plant is highly erratic but there are many moments of brilliance. when his cords were cooperating since i've been loving you was astounding.

75: the slide begins. plant it pretty rough and page is drinking. dazed and confused is just not as good although there is an amazing section in the middle. highlights are the jams on Over the Hills and Far away, kashmir, some of the solos on moby dick. Some of the versions of No Quarter are also great even if the piano solos are a bit much. some very nice acoustic moments are captured on the live "DVD" from the earl's court segment. sloppy, but it does NOT suck.

77: this can get rough. page is seriously strung out. plant has some great shows and bonham really does some great stuff. but yes, this tour is basically for serious fans only, the guitar is really rough.

79: they only played 4 shows, does not really count. although if you by the official "DVD" from a couple years ago there was SOME really cool stuff (achilles last stand kicks ass among other things).

80: i am not a big fan of this tour. page is still seriously on drugs and plant is reduced but still sings with feeling. i only heard a couple tapes and was not that into the vibe.

so, yes, it is a mixed bag. there are good years and bad. it is not for everyone. if you are in any way into rock music i do not see how you can deny the greatness of the records OR the live playing that happened in 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, and some of 75. that is a lot of shows. it is enough to satisfy me anyway. and as far as the disasters...rock and roll is largely about taking risks and just saying "**** it" even when technically things are falling apart.

to compare it to the musical approach of ashlee simpson makes zero sense tho. julliard did her NO favors in the singing OR dancing department. she should ask for her money back. drugs and alcohol have NOTHING to do with it. she just sucks. i love that she has a philanthropic mind set. that is admirable. her music sucks tho. no fire or spontinaity. nothing except another commercial package.

ok, i'm done.
Old 24th May 2006
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish11
the point is well taken, many rock acts sucked live, drugs, ego whatever.

for what its worth I saw chick corea at the grammies a couple of years ago, playing with a rock band, he TOTALLY sucked,
stomped all over a good song ZERO feeling for the tune,
over played, like an egomainic

just like some great composers plagerised simple folk melodies to use in what we now regard as the great classics, it is also true that some of the most memorible music, melodically, is very simple I-IV-V type stuff

in my opiniom it is also true that much jazz, especially the modern type is homoginized drivle, lacking any "soul"
what-so-ever - egonic-diarriha spewed forth in frothy
conformity of psuedo chicness

time will tell if ashlee will stand with the work of Page and Plant........ha ha ha (listen to some of Plants solo stuff)

for me i don't need time to qualitize the timelessness of
of some modern jazz, it's all the ****ing same and melodically much of it sucks, pure drivle

take motown, these writers weren't pushing the enevelope, yet their writing stands, classic work in its context

which is really what its about, context,
I have had "jazz" players puke the harmonic minor crap all over, good, simple melodies

opps....... edit that **** out, wrong place, wrong time

simple ain't always bad
talent on the other hand is always good
i'm not talking about AWARDS shows - THEY ALWAYS SUCK -
that's a RIDICULOUS and IRRELEVANT comparison - and you KNOW it.

a stupid awards show where someone is a guest artist,
not performing their own original work can not POSSIBLY represent the "art" potential of any artist.

the audience at these events doesn't have CLOSE to the attention span to sit through
one brilliant solo acoustic piano performance by chick corea.

so the agents stick him up on stage with some pop act - the only way they can get him visibility,
because most of the audience would almost definitely rather be watchin american idol, playing nintendo,
doing blow in the bathroom, getting lipo or botox, screaming at their lawyer, or getting fawned over, etc.

chick corea is not a "rock" sideman piano player - that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

that's like saying i saw john gielgud in an m&m's commercial, and he sucked.

these large conglomorate product placement and agent orchestrated events have very little do with music,
most of the time.

the reason chick corea has to sideshow with these pop acts for any bigger visibility,
is because he's not moving product to the tune of platinum sales,
the way asslee is.

that's like saying herbie sucks, and basing you rentire opinion on his "rockit" recordings from the 80s
you'd be ignoring the contributions of one of the most talented musicians in our american history,
in the history of jazz, music and art.

i feel sorry for you, if you write off reall GREAT artists based on one time appearances,
at some b&llsh*t pop hollywood event.

your loss - you're just missing out on some of the greatest music EVER created, imo.

so if you're judging chick by one awards appearance, you could just as well
judge any pop or rock artist's appearance at a f&cking awrads show - they almost ALWAYS SUCK.

same as judging asslee by her super bowl show, or whatever.

and, sorry - as for the 'simple is better' analogy - this only applies where the 'simple' is actually GOOD -
and that is obviously totally subjective. different strokes.....

(i don't personally qualify "good" by record sales.
if i thought that way, i'd think micky dees made the best food in the world.
as it happens, i do not think this).

i, personally, wouldn't care - in fact i'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to NEVER
have to hear those stupid mo-town songs again. i'm SO FR*CKIN sick of them.

whatever....different strokes.

if you're judging chick from one awards performance versus his INCREDIBLE and undeniably prolific
and musically innovative, dynamic and exciting HUGE LONG body of work,
you obviously either don't know his work, or you are just musically ignorant.

i'd be VERY surprised at any talented musician who wouldn't give it up to chick.

you put chick in front of page, and page's mind would be BLOWN - i guarentee it.

page in front of chick? not so sure.

chick is unbelievable.

also, just because people have tremendous technical and intellectual ability,
does not make their art "drivel" OR UN-soulful.

this is gerenally a bull-sh*t argument put forth by people who SIMPLY
can't understand what's going on in the music,
and would rather listen to some simple mind-numbing ostinato-based stuff - they CAN understand.

if i'm forced to listent ot I-IV-V, i'd rather listen to wagner, tchaikovsky, orbitt, mirwais,
patrick leonard, zappa, scriabin, jaco or chick do it, than zep or asslee, anyday.

simple things like VOICE LEADING, guys, and COUNTERPOINT.

they don't have have to be arranged like a fr*gg*n cantata, but can still be utilized,
even in very subtle and effective ways.

these simple techniques, which are, incidentally, not COMPLETELY lost on SOME pop artists,

CAN help to take the music from BARBARIAN to HIGHER ART.

so, go on - listen to your my girl, my girl - if that's what floats your boat.
Old 24th May 2006
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit
ok this is the last thing i'll post on the matter.

i have bootlegs from every zep tour pretty much.

here is a brief summary:

69: raw, wild, and great. wailing high notes, amazing drumming, killer guitar work.

70: equally great with more cool material added to the set. check out the show from the last "DVD" release. the show from '70 is typical for a '70 show.

71: perhaps the best year. plant still has the high notes and page is full force. Immigrant song and Celebration day on the 12 string are great. bonham is still the rock, jones is contributing well on keys. he is no bach or jarret but it works.

72: just listen to the release "how the west was won". end of story. it rocks very hard. plant is just starting to lose the high notes here and there.

73: maybe the highlight for page. he is a little erratic at times but anyone who has heard the european tour (or even the soundtrack CD to the movie "the song remains the same") knows page did amazing work this year. plant is highly erratic but there are many moments of brilliance. when his cords were cooperating since i've been loving you was astounding.

75: the slide begins. plant it pretty rough and page is drinking. dazed and confused is just not as good although there is an amazing section in the middle. highlights are the jams on Over the Hills and Far away, kashmir, some of the solos on moby dick. Some of the versions of No Quarter are also great even if the piano solos are a bit much. some very nice acoustic moments are captured on the live "DVD" from the earl's court segment. sloppy, but it does NOT suck.

77: this can get rough. page is seriously strung out. plant has some great shows and bonham really does some great stuff. but yes, this tour is basically for serious fans only, the guitar is really rough.

79: they only played 4 shows, does not really count. although if you by the official "DVD" from a couple years ago there was SOME really cool stuff (achilles last stand kicks ass among other things).

80: i am not a big fan of this tour. page is still seriously on drugs and plant is reduced but still sings with feeling. i only heard a couple tapes and was not that into the vibe.

so, yes, it is a mixed bag. there are good years and bad. it is not for everyone. if you are in any way into rock music i do not see how you can deny the greatness of the records OR the live playing that happened in 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, and some of 75. that is a lot of shows. it is enough to satisfy me anyway. and as far as the disasters...rock and roll is largely about taking risks and just saying "**** it" even when technically things are falling apart.

to compare it to the musical approach of ashlee simpson makes zero sense tho. julliard did her NO favors in the singing OR dancing department. she should ask for her money back. drugs and alcohol have NOTHING to do with it. she just sucks. i love that she has a philanthropic mind set. that is admirable. her music sucks tho. no fire or spontinaity. nothing except another commercial package.

ok, i'm done.
keep a cooly baby, keep a cooly baby whatever
Old 24th May 2006
  #145
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
only if you're a tone-deaf weasel.

.
Sqye take a chill pill : ) I wanted to piss you off thats all hahaha
Old 24th May 2006
  #146
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
keep a cooly baby, keep a cooly baby whatever
true, it is easier to remain aloof and ignorant.

enjoy that.
Old 24th May 2006
  #147
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
only if you're a tone-deaf weasel.

the only person who would make a statement like this is someone who either doesn't KNOW,
or doesn't UNDERSTAND mozart, or doesn't KNOW or UNDERSTAND actual music
(minus the, obviously VERY successful, 12 year old pop radio campaign marketing part).

anyone of mozart's masses would kick all of zep's catalogue around the musical globe and back.

in under 30 seconds.

this includes EVERY aspect of the music, EXCEPT record production heh (1700's).

however, if mozart were alive, i'd bet my bottom dollar he trumps record production over page and kramer
(i have much repect for both of them - even though the sh*t is mad dated, at this point).
Old 24th May 2006
  #148
Lives for gear
 
De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Some of you DESPERATLY need to get a hobby.....heh
Old 24th May 2006
  #149
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

lets all learn some two note power chords and be rock stars! heh
why spend time to actually learn to play?
music today is entertainment, ( pop music has been for years ) and has little to do with musical talent.
Old 24th May 2006
  #150
Gear Addict
 
RobMacki's Avatar
 

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