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the sell out continues
Old 15th November 2011
  #1
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the sell out continues

And the culture vulture award of 11/2011 goes again to Ableton...tutt

For this

https://www.ableton.com/de/shop/more...----DL1E--__--


Again they are supplying the masses with generic tech house production tools and damaging the scene with that.

Ableton live the new magix music maker? Infantile toy or professional daw?

I think they should focus on getting their buggy software finaly sorted out and functional improved, instead trying to make some extra bucks with cheasy sound sets.

Especially when this sets have such a generic character and supporting all the fakers around so very well.

So young electronic producer please be aware of that the company that sold you the tool to do music is destroying the market that could maybe make you a pro one day aswell. And even worse...They are promoting the flase attitude that fake music or the use of generic beats or sounds is an alwright thing to do. Enemies of the scene..

I hope the other daw companys wake up and supply us with an alternative.

Soon please...
Old 15th November 2011
  #2
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zzzzzzzzzzzzz, another 3phrase Ableton hate thread.

b/w

If anyone ends up shooting up Ableton headquarters, I'm nominating dude as a prime suspect.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #3
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Greg_KPX's Avatar
 

no ****ty commercial music has been recorded in Pro Tools?
Old 15th November 2011
  #4
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Get a life mate. Really.
Old 15th November 2011
  #5
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krushing's Avatar
95% of music is generic anyway. I doubt this is gonna push it any further over the edge.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Ableton Troll is Ableton Troll!!!!
Old 15th November 2011
  #7
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
Again they are supplying the masses with generic tech house production tools
Where were you in 1984 when Roland was doing that?

Quote:
and damaging the scene with that.
Oh, bull****.

If the "scene" is such a precious little fragile flower that it cannot stand to be budged, it shouldn't survive in the first place.

What happened to the true spirit of the underground that can never be quenched or suppressed?

What kind of wimps have these "scene" people turned into that one sample library demolishes everything they've done?

The music isn't yours. The scene isn't yours. You should be happy that those young producers are turned to churn out generic insta-Berlin techno - that means you don't have to be terribly original anymore because just being a little bit original is already enough to separate you from the rest.

If you want less competition, stop telling people to make music instead of gushing endlessly about real equipment. Discourage them, then you'll have your little playground all for yourself.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #8
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thats all waht you have to say when a comopany that is supposed to produce a professional daw is selling genre specific generic loops?

i guess that supper offer of the magix music maker 2.0 company is made for guys like you.. but please dont consider yourself as producers or musicans when you dont get it up without professional aid.

A company that is in production tools shouldnt promote generic music production. In the last consequence customers of this tools want an automatic music production software.. so a producer for themself in the box..
what a neat idea

In any case its a pretty bad sign for a company like ableton to get into this market. Careless and unresponsible.


And dont call me troll just because i ve an opinion on this item. YOu better start to form an own one.. IS theese "dont care dont matters attitude" part of your musical style too? i guess generic loops are a blessing than..

But for a major daw manufactor its way to low profile. How can one take them serious than?


And one question to the fanboy armada... you are all from the US?
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #9
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@yoozer

are you delusional? 1984 roland machines generic? hello? anbody at home?


And the scene IS damaged by too much pseudos clogging the market and giving false role models..that damages the style and state of the art of the music in the general publics reception.. Wont kill the underground..sure.. but kill the opportunitys of talent to get a carrier. Like in politics only total dicks will enter into the high positions and the consequence? the end of the world just by beeing ruled by dicks? probably not.. but thats no reason to let this shame just happen un commented.
Old 15th November 2011
  #10
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krushing's Avatar
Have you noticed that the likes of Steinberg and Cakewalk also sell generic sound kits on their sites?
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #11
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Greg_KPX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
@yoozer

are you delusional? 1984 roland machines generic? hello? anbody at home?
look, I agree that selling crap loop libraries is poor form on behalf of Ableton, but what Yoozer says is that Roland gear in the 80's was also generic mass produced stuff. which is actually true!

anyway, if it makes you feel better I'm still using live 7.1 because by the time it reached 8, they started trying to do too much to milk the business side, and most of the additions, instruments and loop libraries aren't necessary for me. 7.1 will be the "vintage" underground version people will load up on their oldschool laptops in the year 2031... actually no, they'll have windows xp emulators on quantum wristwatch projector computers with mind control.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #12
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
@yoozer

are you delusional? 1984 roland machines generic?
Yes. Generic. Instead of learning a real instrument, you get to punch in the sounds - that aren't even like real drum machines - into a computer, which never deviates from the tempo, doesn't understand "groove" and and any amateur can now lay down tight drum tracks. This used to be the difference between a ****ty band and a good one - the quality of their drummer would immediately show the A&R guys whether they'd have to go or whether they'd be signed.

Drum machines have no soul.

(sound familiar?)

Quote:
And the scene IS damaged by too much pseudos clogging the market
I think pretty much the entirety of Detroit thought pretty much exactly the same thing when some scrawy white kid who called himself Plastikman started to make tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
thats all waht you have to say when a comopany that is supposed to produce a professional daw is selling genre specific generic loops?
Ableton is not "supposed" to do anything, and these loops weren't made by Ableton. It even says so in the description.

Ableton does not consist of two people where if one of 'm is doing anything else than programming it automatically means they can't spend time on programming.

ImageLine has a donkey icon to show their customers who are apparently not as intellectually gifted that "no time was spent on this which should've been spent on improving FL Studio". Perhaps Ableton would need something like that too.

As for the libraries - you're not supposed to buy them. Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head. If someone buys them, they're lost sheep in your eyes already.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_KPX View Post
look, I agree that selling crap loop libraries is poor form on behalf of Ableton, but what Yoozer says is that Roland gear in the 80's was also generic mass produced stuff. which is actually true!

anyway, if it makes you feel better I'm still using live 7.1 because by the time it reached 8, they started trying to do too much to milk the business side, and most of the additions, instruments and loop libraries aren't necessary for me. 7.1 will be the "vintage" underground version people will load up on their oldschool laptops in the year 2031... actually no, they'll have windows xp emulators on quantum wristwatch projector computers with mind control.
why should the software you use effect me in any way??? use what you want..

but at least one person that sees that its a bit unapropiate to sell loops when you own the whole brothel. And i cant remember any other daw that has sold generic house and techno construction kits yet.. Even garage band of apple has enough style to dont try to be too modern and leave some space for creativity.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #14
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evosilica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Where were you in 1984 when Roland was doing that?
Yes. Most of the 909303 stuff produced back then was just as generic.
In fact almost everything is generic, people only complain about stuff being generic, when they don't enjoy it.

Like a friend of mine, listening to house and stuff, telling me, he hates drum and bass because it's always the same beat
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Yes. Generic. Instead of learning a real instrument, you get to punch in the sounds - that aren't even like real drum machines - into a computer, which never deviates from the tempo, doesn't understand "groove" and and any amateur can now lay down tight drum tracks. This used to be the difference between a ****ty band and a good one - the quality of their drummer would immediately show the A&R guys whether they'd have to go or whether they'd be signed.

Drum machines have no soul.

bla ble.

you are talking bull... the one thing has nothing to do with the other...

house music actually proved that the roland machines can do much more than a cheap but stiff drummer replacement.. Marvin Gay has proved this way earlier already..
And the speciality of these genres and music is to make actually good grooves..what is not so easy as you claim.. otherwise there wouldnt be a market for these loop construction kits and people would hold on doing it on drum machines like real man :-))

The special crime of ableton is that they have targeted the tech house scene that made them actually big, just remember their generic housebeat generator for max for live.. and the tech house scene was their first customers and provided well for ableton.. Everybody bought their program even at times where it was so ****ty that you really damaged productions by using it..

But now they are targeting a new type of customers.. not really musicans.. rather kids that want to toy around...A young us crowd actually..I guess you know the type.. the masses that get more and more into these pseudo techhouse, dubstep and trance stuff..

They are many.. have money..a special IQ but no talent or attitude.. they will make them rich.. or doing it already.
So why bothering about the original electronic music scene when the faked one can bring so much more profit.. The kids want to play house producer?. enablton them.. and sell way more sampling kits than your record could do..

These new kids on the block need loop construction kits..they dont have the attention span to learn a drum machine. now with preprogrammed follow actions to take the stiffness out of the loop music.. make the illusion of a real track complete..

That all wont kill good music or the so called underground..where is that btw?
But it damages the genres that actually just have revitalised in the last years.. Slaughtering them before they can reach a higher impact on the mainstream again.. Now the generic stuff gets that impact. Again society is safed from the devilish real house and its destructive fx on the alkohol sales.

Fact is :
Ableton is selling out and that they became culture vultures.

Live users...
Are we sailing on a sinking ship or is it just a stinking one?
Old 15th November 2011
  #16
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krushing's Avatar
I thought they're selling stuff because they're a business trying to make a profit.

Btw: VST Sound Loop Sets
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #17
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

haha.. man this has to be a drunken troll post right? i like to do those too.. its fun... you rile some people up and some others get a laugh

if it isn't.. then the whole diatribe can be summarized by this

"i bought ableton because all the "insert stupid house prefix here"-house producers used it and i wanted to to sound like them too... but now ableton is selling ready made loops and **** of my chosen genre.. and their loops hit harder than my weak-sauce.... blah blah blah... whine, whine whine... THEY'RE WATERING DOWN TEH TECH-HIZZY SCENE"

obviously your gripe doesn't have so much to do with ableton as it has something to do with them allowing ready made loop packages to be used in their program and advertised in concert with it... and while there are some truly evil and stupid business practices, worthy of disdain... this one not so much

you come off as a petulant child... worried about some pre-made loops stealing any attention you may have potentially garnered in your chosen genre? ... the solution is simple

stop browsing the internet... getting upset over inconsequential... ****ing trivial things.... and concentrate on your craft
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #18
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gremlin moon's Avatar
 

My guess is that 3Phase has required contact with bad music because of a job or something. I was in a situation a couple of weeks ago where I ended up having to listen to music that was obviously loop constructed and it literally felt like I was being waterboarded. He may be an engineer at a pop radio station, work for a tv show, work at clothing store at a mall , have 5 teenage daughters -- something. He is obviously a broken man lol.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krushing View Post
I thought they're selling stuff because they're a business trying to make a profit.

Btw: VST Sound Loop Sets
uhh. now i know why i dont use steinberg since decades anymore..creativity first? traitors..


however..there is a little difference here with ableton.. they are continously pushing the loop use further,,, the stuff they promote trys to hide its generic nature.. The are on the brink of computer generated music here And provide the fakers with mightiest tools they ever had...

A business? in regards of the tech house genres they are selling weapons of mass destruction..chemical warfare..

for me thats some kind of crime.. as a poll showed i did some time ago i am not alone with that opinion.

A serious daw supplier should stay away from this little extra income..

And that goes to steinberg as well.. disgusting. really

However plain loop construction kits always reveal themself.. because the loop runs and runs and runs.. no variation.. copycat records was easy to separate from real tracks ..at least for the expert listener.. directly in the demo basket and gone.. no chance to get a deal with proper label with loop construction kits.. thats about to change,..and than the fraud is complete.
We have the politicans we deserve, why should the musicans be any better.
Making them all corrupt liars actually unifies society..we will be one..in hell


That ableton started to feature such products that try to overcome the most natural flaw of faked techno music, the monotonie is a new problem!

In any case its really bad style to feature such steroids in public.

A stinking ship.. they realized that they dont have what it takes to produce a professional daw ...and go consequently in the other direction now.. the total sellout has started. 25% for christmas.. without new products the best they can do. 50% would be actually more like it... its still not stable.. why anybody would dare to upgrade anything on such a shabby base?

Investments in hardware are so much more rewarding..and stay with you no matter which daw you might use in the future...

what about making thread with christmas buy suggestions for the price on L8 upgrade to suite would cost? even with 25% of ther are a lot of cool things available.. for people that like to do sound and music of cause..and not the ones that prefer watching the computer doing it for them.

and btw.. when any promotion is good promotion ableton should start to pay me...
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #20
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tsutek's Avatar
 

I think it's kinda cool using live now that it's becoming unappreciated by people like 3phase.. I do admit it must make me look uncool and everything (like a DeeJay/poser who doesn't know anything about making music), but I'll survive.

At the end of the day it's just a complex tool - you have to define your own way of working with it. Don't concentrate too much on how other people use it.

In a way it's like the circle is closing.. I remember when I saw live 1.0, I thought that it was just a toy.. Nice to see it getting that status back LOL
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
However plain loop construction kits always reveal themself.. because the loop runs and runs and runs.. no variation.. copycat records was easy to separate from real tracks ..at least for the expert listener.. directly in the demo basket and gone.. no chance to get a deal with proper label with loop construction kits.. thats about to change,..and than the fraud is complete.
So where's the problem?

How is it a threat if loop construction kits reveal themselves anyway? The people listening to it know it's cookie cutter, the labels won't release it because it's cookie cutter - ergo, that poor talentless git in their bedroom's not going to get their music out there, are they?

How is the scene threatened if the gatekeepers are keeping the stuff out and the audience's supposed to be smart enough to recognize **** for what it is?

Quote:
for me thats some kind of crime..
It's only a crime if a 15-year old bedroom producer can beat you to the charts with prepackaged loops.

If you let yourself be beaten by a 15-year old bedroom producer, you weren't doing anything great in the first place.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #22
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metrosonus's Avatar
 

I can give your argument some credit as it seems lousy that they are endorsing such products as that house chord generator and some other stuff. At the same time they do have some cool other stuff as well.

But at the end of the day it's a business. And when you get large enough and at a certain point, worrying about street cred doesn't pay the bills.

As long as they don't go all facebook and start changing the core functionality around daily on flights of fancy and the program operates in the same manner it did when I bought it, I don't care what they do really. I just keep my eyes on my own computer and make my own music.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #23
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Hahahahaha...now he's trolling back at Ableton under a new sock puppet, and everyone knew it was him instantly.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #24
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rockerbruce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3phase View Post
why should the software you use effect me in any way??? use what you want..

but at least one person that sees that its a bit unapropiate to sell loops when you own the whole brothel. And i cant remember any other daw that has sold generic house and techno construction kits yet.. Even garage band of apple has enough style to dont try to be too modern and leave some space for creativity.
If someone was willing to pay for it, I'd sure as hell sell them it. So shoot me
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #25
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
The audio warping that Live can do is simply amazing. I consider live to be one of the best samplers ever made. This is were the real power of Live lies. I could take any sample pack and make a track the sounds nothing like the original samples.
Old 15th November 2011
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Hahahahaha...now he's trolling back at Ableton under a new sock puppet, and everyone knew it was him instantly.

What a tool.
Can't beat a bit of internet excitement.

On a related note I was surprised to find out that tech house wasn't already dead.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #27
eh... it doesn't really matter, since music by numbers will be always be such. Regardless of the use of loops or not, good music takes soul.


Its not the tools its the workman.



.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #28
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rolo's Avatar
 

Man... GS used to be such a great site. Pros and pro tips abound. Everywhere i look now this site has bs lined arund the block. Newbys and idiots abound.
To the mods... There should be a moron filter tool on this site.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #29
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I am still waiting for the 3Phase guide to Electronic music.... Maybe he'll get around to building a DAW once he's put the finishing touches on the electronic music guide.
Old 15th November 2011 | Show parent
  #30
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gremlin moon's Avatar
 

This collection of loops though is SWEET
http://www.stockmusicstore.com:8080/...ffffffd11ac756
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