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New Steinberg Controller - Autumn 2011
Old 3rd October 2011
  #151
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
I make good records with Steinberg products. This thread is actually about their controller product. The rest of this off topic banter is unnecessary rubbish!
Not really. People expressing opinions about another crappy SB attempt as something that is falling short even before its release.

Fanboi's trying to comment that virtual faders are better than anything else, and consoles and real faders are the thing of the past.

SB history of support, failed products and outright ignoring of the user base.

Look at the comments here and everywhere. They aren't exactly glowing.
SB hasn't exactly tried to "change" their image either.

No worries if you are all SB and that. There are those who still want to express dissatisfaction with SB.
So they will.
Old 3rd October 2011
  #152
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lander View Post
I see the Emus have surfaced here at Gearslutz!

Hi Vin/Lex

Yo Lex, Neil had that comment on the link to another site. He is not a Steinberg rep. He is just a user.

Further, I support Steinberg's method of error reporting. Bobby's video had a lot of tracks in it from the get go and he has stated it is a template from an earlier version of Nuendo which can cause problems. What version? Nuendo 3.x???


.
Chris B is a rep.

So, having too many tracks is an issue then.

There is the problem too. If you are having to redo your template on every version, a lot of people just don't have the time to redo their templates.
Considering how cumbersome Nuendo is with some of those things needed in setting up a template, big templates can take a week to rebuild.

Then the constant comparison of both. That's one reason I never went further. All the setting, track delays, labeling, ect. I was just tired of always having to start over.

Eventually it will be enough to drive others away as well.
Old 3rd October 2011
  #153
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
Chris B is a rep.
So what? It was Neil who made the comment you complain about.
Old 3rd October 2011
  #154
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
So what? It was Neil who made the comment you complain about.
Quote:
a repro with computer specs written here would be enough
He's saying the same thing.
Old 4th October 2011
  #155
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
He's saying the same thing.
Doesn't look like it to me. Seems he's saying that it'd be enough to post the repro and system specs, and not have to go through the hassle of making a video, or, alternatively, that the video does not provide sufficient information (system specs etc).

But read into it what you want of course.....
Old 4th October 2011
  #156
kdm
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Doesn't look like it to me. Seems he's saying that it'd be enough to post the repro and system specs, and not have to go through the hassle of making a video, or, alternatively, that the video does not provide sufficient information (system specs etc).

But read into it what you want of course.....
From past first-hand experience, if he just posted specs and a repro (which takes a lot of troubleshooting time compared to just posting a video, and really isn't the end user's responsibility), he would then fight for months on the forum to convince anyone the problem even existed, then someone would inevitably chime in and ask him to post a video. A year later,
the problem would be still be there. lol
Old 4th October 2011
  #157
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm View Post
From past first-hand experience, if he just posted specs and a repro (which takes a lot of troubleshooting time compared to just posting a video, and really isn't the end user's responsibility), he would then fight for months on the forum to convince anyone the problem even existed, then someone would inevitably chime in and ask him to post a video. A year later,
the problem would be still be there. lol
possibly
Old 4th October 2011
  #158
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
possibly
That is what would happen. WE've all seen it.
Chris B was saying a video isn't necessary.
Even though, repro steps are clear in the video.

I'm sure Bobby's up against the wall with time, considering the constant crashes and problems like this, so sitting there typing up a repro probably wasn't very good time management.

The 2 minutes to record the video, process in the background and post a youtube link verses 10 or 15 minutes typing up a repro. Then realizing you forgot a step.

It just goes to show the level of support from the users and the admins of SB. Lazy, uncaring, complaining.
Its the easiest way to put off problems and ignore issues. Make it difficult for the user to state the problem.

I don't use Nuendo anymore, but I watched the video and it was extremely clear. I bet I remember the repro more from watching the video then reading it.

I watched it. Did you? I doubt it.
Old 4th October 2011
  #159
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
I watched it. Did you? I doubt it.
Yeah, I did actually. So that you doubt it speaks more about you than about me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
I don't use Nuendo anymore,
So why do you care?

It's one thing for users of Nuendo to complain about the software.... it just looks a bit.... "strange" for a non-user to whine about a company he left.

You bored or something?
Old 4th October 2011
  #160
Gear Maniac
 
Lander's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Yeah, I did actually. So that you doubt it speaks more about you than about me.



So why do you care?

It's one thing for users of Nuendo to complain about the software.... it just looks a bit.... "strange" for a non-user to whine about a company he left.

You bored or something?

I would really like to know this too.

Heh... I complain too sometimes, no where near Lex's degree, and I use Nuendo every day.
Old 4th October 2011
  #161
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
possibly
Not possibly Matt , definitely !!

Why would you even debate it , all of us have enough experience and scars in that area over the years to know exactly what the M.O is.

I think Lex's point was that the contribution ( for want of a better word ) over at the Fredendo forum, whether it be the official / unofficial reps or the remaining skeletal crew of defenders is the same, one of dismissal, denial and non accountability .

Its pitiful !

RE complaining about Nuendo, now come on Matt, you may have changed your Nick , but you have been going Hell for leather over at there since its relaunch..., careful where you point that finger... LOL
Old 4th October 2011
  #162
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
How about presenting it this way:

I'm told the Reaper forum is an active place where the developers actually listen and respond to praise and complaints of Reaper. Could this be the main reason Reaper has grown so much is such a little time?

The Cubase forum is not an avenue for users to deal directly with Steinberg.* The closest you will get is the moderator, who, might forward the issue to Germany. Of course sometimes the Cubase moderator will completely ignore a known bug even though there are over 100 replies from over 50 different users in a 3 month period. I will gladly forward the actual post about the bug if necessary. It had do with with drum lanes in drum editor automatically changing.

After months wondering if a Cubase moderator would ever chime in, I got a PM here at Gearslutz from "someone in the know" at Steinberg who stated the problem would be fixed in the next update. The problem was fixed in the next update. Not one time did any moderator ever make a post, even acknowledging the problem.

My point is this bug was ignored on purpose. Chris had months to reply but chose not to. I sent Chris a PM, and he never replied. I called technical support, and the person understood the bug and said he would forward it to Germany. I followed up with technical support a couple weeks later and was told they know about the bug, but didn't give any information about whether or not it would be fixed.

I don't think Steinberg or even NI comprehends the value of good support when dealing with every-day users of Cubase. Maybe it's a German thing. My guess is they hope non-professional users...the majority of users...will simply go away, or eventually find answers from other users in forums.

Back to the controller...will this be another Houston?

*Wavelab is the exception because the author, PG actually replies to problems. That is excellent support! I believe he is finally coming around to the fact that a user manual is desperately needed for Wavelab.
Old 4th October 2011
  #163
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
How about presenting it this way:

I'm told the Reaper forum is an active place where the developers actually listen and respond to praise and complaints of Reaper. Could this be the main reason Reaper has grown so much is such a little time?

The Cubase forum is not an avenue for users to deal directly with Steinberg.* The closest you will get is the moderator, who, might forward the issue to Germany. Of course sometimes the Cubase moderator will completely ignore a known bug even though there are over 100 replies from over 50 different users in a 3 month period. I will gladly forward the actual post about the bug if necessary. It had do with with drum lanes in drum editor automatically changing.

After months wondering if a Cubase moderator would ever chime in, I got a PM here at Gearslutz from "someone in the know" at Steinberg who stated the problem would be fixed in the next update. The problem was fixed in the next update. Not one time did any moderator ever make a post, even acknowledging the problem.

My point is this bug was ignored on purpose. Chris had months to reply but chose not to. I sent Chris a PM, and he never replied. I called technical support, and the person understood the bug and said he would forward it to Germany. I followed up with technical support a couple weeks later and was told they know about the bug, but didn't give any information about whether or not it would be fixed.

I don't think Steinberg or even NI comprehends the value of good support when dealing with every-day users of Cubase. Maybe it's a German thing. My guess is they hope non-professional users...the majority of users...will simply go away, or eventually find answers from other users in forums.

Back to the controller...will this be another Houston?

*Wavelab is the exception because the author, PG actually replies to problems. That is excellent support! I believe he is finally coming around to the fact that a user manual is desperately needed for Wavelab.
Seems you ran into the strange phenomena of the "official unofficial forums". heh
Old 4th October 2011
  #164
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Not possibly Matt , definitely !!

Why would you even debate it , all of us have enough experience and scars in that area over the years to know exactly what the M.O is.

I think Lex's point was that the contribution ( for want of a better word ) over at the Fredendo forum, whether it be the official / unofficial reps or the remaining skeletal crew of defenders is the same, one of dismissal, denial and non accountability .

Its pitiful !
Don't assume that just because I take issue with what he's saying that I disagree with all his opinions.

My point was simply that if we're going to criticize the company for something, let's at least be accurate. What he brought up looked like a stretch to me.

And that just brings me back to some points I made a long time ago: If users are going to complain about issues and get results, it makes sense to argue fewer issues with more focus, and be sure to be accurate with ones claims (meaning the facts can't be ambiguous).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
RE complaining about Nuendo, now come on Matt, you may have changed your Nick , but you have been going Hell for leather over at there since its relaunch..., careful where you point that finger... LOL
First of all I still use it at times, whereas Lex does not as far as I understand. So that's a difference.

Secondly, one could argue that if there is a "cause", one of trying to change the company and its M.O. (possibly fruitless), then it is damaged for the aforementioned reasons in addition to non-users piling on.

It's like an AMD user complaining about the performance of Intel CPUs and of Intels policies - on a personal level. What's the big deal - you're an AMD guy anyways....

I'm sure you see my point(s).
Old 4th October 2011
  #165
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

And here we are now arguing amongst ourselves :-(

There is no changing the M.O Matt, no matter how anyone approaches it , its why they are haemorrhaging end users at an alarming rate.

Re having to still use it to post an opinion, well Mate I personally abandoned Deadendo as well , so does that mean I no longer have a voice ?

The volume of work that I placed into trying to help and needing to support my existing clients means that I still have a dog in this race , and seeing its potential and standing eroded by a few over the years has been incredibly hard, but it is what it is, nothing will change ( the new forum proved that and if anything worsened the situation ). Of course they will blame us despite the fact that we haven't contributed in years , while they continue to circle around in a daisy chain patting each other on their backs that they chased away the complainers and reclaimed their "Turf" , only to find that now its a ghost town.. :-)

Lets get back to the controllers..

Wow , how about those CMC's....

Old 5th October 2011
  #166
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Well, those who did leave, didn't have a choice.

They needed a working solution, not a "promise" or typical MO from SB we are all use to.

When 5 came out, it just wasn't there still.

Many build systems around the Nuendo platform and invested in Nuendo and SB only to see that investment pretty much goto waste.

You can't even sell it. Not for any price worth selling it for. Might as well keep if for backup purposes.

So, why do I care? Because those of us who lost out on our investment feel entitled to an opinion, and voice our continued dissatisfaction with the SB model, people and software.

If SB wants to refund us full price, we'll shut up.
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