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New Steinberg Controller - Autumn 2011
Old 30th September 2011
  #121
Here for the gear
 
yikesboy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I think that's nonsense.

ALL "new guys" that I've seen that work exclusively without faders either spend more time getting a "musical" ride done, or just don't get the same "musicality" out of it.

Heck, just to give one simple example: Try fading one music track out while fading the other one in - controlling two faders - with a mouse! With a bunch of faders you simply hit play and fade. Simple. Musical. Fast. Accurate.



Once again I disagree. I think there is a market for the mid-range. The WK-Audio stuff is almost in that range, but I'm thinking about half that price maybe. Definitely a market for that in my opinion.
Now we have a discussion! And one that's civil as well...
I would argue that automation in DAWs is making these live moves that were a necessity years ago, unnecessary now. I find myself riding a vocal and writing that and then fixing it later. The 'live moves' with a fader would require the same fixing IMHO. I think that quality faders could survive the encroachment from touch screens (iPad and CMC etc) IF they can continue to hit lower and lower price points. However, I suspect that the traditional fader will gradually morph into another form- just as the input methodology of a 'stylus' on Palm devices turned into touch. Remember the crazy crap they used in the '50s for level balancing? I'm sure there were many who resisted the move to the horizontal fader then too.
Old 30th September 2011
  #122
Gear Head
 

Mattias...

You do have a valid point, but we are now discussing a workflow topic. Some do a fade out of one track... move to the fade in of the other and tweak with a mouse via lanes. Just 1 example. Some may use a mouse on one and a fader on the other? There are many ways to accomplish the task. So, for sake of this one example... the CMC-FD may meet that need for many. Musicality is a very, very subjective discussion and one that no forum discussion can resolve. My opinion.

While there's this continued mention of a market for a certain priced product with features xyz is a very difficult thing to get "right" - regardless of the manufacturer. I'm basing this on what has been available over the past several years. Still, if a vendor did attempt this I am confident we would still have similar discussions as no 1 product makes everyone happy. I think we all can agree on this? There is always a development and cost of good price tag. This may be the reason why no one has been able to fill that area with a ROI that balances it all out. There there is the trends. Again, I personally am not one for the iPad stuff.... that's just me. The CC121 does all I need. A 2 Fader CC121 would be cool to do exactly as you suggest

So, for sake of discussion only - a modular concept they were are embarking on in the CMC (yes, the CMC's probably won't fit the exact needs) may be able to fit this market need. I say approach, not the exact build type. Who knows. This is all good professional feedback. I appreciate it!
Old 30th September 2011
  #123
Gear Head
 

Azriel_7

I see the end user being a number of possibilities, but in short it's any one that has a need and is looking for a solution. A majority very well may be the entry level individual looking to enter into the controller market.

Another may be a sound designer/editor, like myself, who is looking for a cost-effective solution that fits nicely on my smaller project studio desk. For sake of example, my set up will include a CC121, CMC-PD and CMC-QC in the frame. It will control my DAW, VSTis, and aspects of the video software I use. (note, I haven't tried this yet with the video software as I am waiting to receive my QC and PD. I only had proto types)

There also may be the keyboard player who uses VSTis and is looking for something to fit nicely on top of their Keyboard (The PD and QC work with anything remember).

DJ's may also consider these to trigger off sounds and FX as they travel nicely.

Will these find themselves on a large mix stage? Most likely not and that is where we will find the very expensive controllers and mix desks.

Where I think yikesboy is a bit off base... those using mix desks aren't going away next week. It does however suggest that there will be less jobs to fill for the up and coming folk as these large studio staff are staying put.

So, we look to make solutions (CMC) that can be used in the current day environment, like the home/project studio, where lots of 'jobs' are being pushed to. The result is production that is being used in the media we see today, regardless of large mix desk/controller or a "new" solution like the CMC. It's the finished product that maters.

There is a wide variety of potential users.
Old 30th September 2011
  #124
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yikesboy View Post
The fader is a throwback to the old days when signal actually passed through that part of the console - approximations by innacurate mechanisms such as Euphonix Artist series will eventually wear out their welcome.
The whole industry at the moment is in some retro tech spin cycle where anything old is desirable with a fresh coat of paint using the new technologies, so using that angle , faders would definitely be in vouge using your scenario. But thats not the reason why they are still and will remain popular, as they provide a tactile surface that helps many connect with the technology. That has always been the case and will always remain so. I don't see any sign of that principle wearing out its welcome at all , and that is at all levels of my clientele , who are more than happy to invest in the physical fader approach more so than iPad/CMC .

You seem to have a bug up your butt about the Euphonix Artist Series but let me say that I have more than a few clients using them at many levels from Project/Post/Pro who don't find them "inaccurate" , but don't let that stop you from continuing on your tirade against them in all of these CMC threads , the more you are slagging them , the more exposure and traction you are giving them .. :-)

Re Fanboi comments, if the shoe fits, stop behaving like a self anointed defender and they will be irrelevant , also careful posting anaemic ad hominem attacks while hiding behind a cyber alias , that is never taken lightly , Capice.. :-)

Unluckily for you, some of us managed to read that garbage you posted before you deleted it, lets say it hasn't helped your profile !
Old 30th September 2011
  #125
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eskay's Avatar
 

Seriously now.....why no faders?

I'm all ok for the new stuff....it will fit a lot of bedroom producers. But.....I'm a phucking audio engineer.........I love Cubase.....I use it day in and day out.....but NOBODY IS LISTENING AT STEINBERG!!!!!!!!!!

NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There is a reason why Avid is number 1. They listen, and they create.
How many years do we have the Yamaha and Steinberg marriage.....?
I think it's 10.....and we have yet to see 1 or even a half of a professional product from this marriage......


Its simple............very simple. Everybody needs at least 8 faders with a master fader. And a CHANNEL STRIP.....for gods sake how difficult is this.
I mean the SSL Nucleus is selling because they god the faders right, and the build quality but even they didn't listen and didn't offer a channel strip. But they can do so because they have HIGH END products that don't want to interfere with their entry level products.....Steinberg has ZERO high end controllers but they have now an entry level product. I would be ok with this if there was a SERIOUS HIGH END controller.......Why isn't anybody listening from Steinberg.....the rep who is here is not LISTENING!!!!!!!

You see Avid get's it right.....they can raise the price of the Euphonix products 400 dollars....because there is NOBODY and I mean NOBODY giving them a challenge in that category.

It makes me mad and I wish I had money to bring a product out that I know many engineers like myself would love to have cause times have changed.

And anybody who tells me that they can mix with only a mouse is smoking crack.....or hasn't done any serious work. It's the truth.

Give me some real faders a real integration with my DAW and I will get results faster. For Gods sake even Roland with Sonar is doing a better job than Steinberg and Yamaha.
Old 1st October 2011
  #126
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskay View Post
I'm all ok for the new stuff....it will fit a lot of bedroom producers. But.....I'm a phucking audio engineer.........I love Cubase.....I use it day in and day out.....but NOBODY IS LISTENING AT STEINBERG!!!!!!!!!!

NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There is a reason why Avid is number 1. They listen, and they create.
How many years do we have the Yamaha and Steinberg marriage.....?
I think it's 10.....and we have yet to see 1 or even a half of a professional product from this marriage......


Its simple............very simple. Everybody needs at least 8 faders with a master fader. And a CHANNEL STRIP.....for gods sake how difficult is this.
I mean the SSL Nucleus is selling because they god the faders right, and the build quality but even they didn't listen and didn't offer a channel strip. But they can do so because they have HIGH END products that don't want to interfere with their entry level products.....Steinberg has ZERO high end controllers but they have now an entry level product. I would be ok with this if there was a SERIOUS HIGH END controller.......Why isn't anybody listening from Steinberg.....the rep who is here is not LISTENING!!!!!!!

You see Avid get's it right.....they can raise the price of the Euphonix products 400 dollars....because there is NOBODY and I mean NOBODY giving them a challenge in that category.

It makes me mad and I wish I had money to bring a product out that I know many engineers like myself would love to have cause times have changed.

And anybody who tells me that they can mix with only a mouse is smoking crack.....or hasn't done any serious work. It's the truth.

Give me some real faders a real integration with my DAW and I will get results faster. For Gods sake even Roland with Sonar is doing a better job than Steinberg and Yamaha.
Finally, some sense here. Well put.

Doesn't matter if you are a pro, or on your way to being one. Mixing with a touch surface is fine, but you aren't going to see that in professional facilities ever.
Its like, you know. We've been using the steering wheel to drive our cars since the first auto.
Its been improved and improved upon, time and time again.

But no professional driver is going to get into a car and drive it 200 miles an hour with a mouse or iPad.
Once you've got your mixing pants, you don't need to look at your faders to see if you are pulling a dB or 3. You feel it.

Part of the reason for physical parts especially for film and TV, is you are spendin gmore time looking at the screen than at the console. You can glance down and see your faders quickly and grab a bunch without worrying you are hitting some other function on the touch screen.

SB hasn't listened ever. That's why so many people left. kdm, myself, many others got tired of trying to explain things and continually get ignored.
You can see by the preview of PT 10 HOW MUCH AVId listened, and I'm willing to bet there is even more they've listened to.

Its a users product. SB is like a bunch of programmers trying to out do each other, and change things from release to release and update to update with no regard to the end user.

SB won't ever listen because they believe they know better than you.

Great post.

Back to mixing. With faders and knobs.
Old 1st October 2011
  #127
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Lights's Avatar
<nevermind>
Old 1st October 2011
  #128
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
Mattias...

You do have a valid point, but we are now discussing a workflow topic. Some do a fade out of one track... move to the fade in of the other and tweak with a mouse via lanes. Just 1 example. Some may use a mouse on one and a fader on the other? There are many ways to accomplish the task. So, for sake of this one example... the CMC-FD may meet that need for many. Musicality is a very, very subjective discussion and one that no forum discussion can resolve. My opinion.
I think you misunderstood my point. It was kind'a what you're saying, that workflows vary, and that the fader will likely not go away in still a long time to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
While there's this continued mention of a market for a certain priced product with features xyz is a very difficult thing to get "right" - regardless of the manufacturer. I'm basing this on what has been available over the past several years.
I don't think you can base that on what's been available. Companies investing in the development and marketing of certain lines in certain segments may not feel it's worth going through that again to develop new lines. But that doesn't mean that it's hard to get right, it may just be that they chose a particular segment and it worked for them. Had they tried a different one then that might have worked as well.

Personally I don't recall any controllers in the 2-8k range that failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
Still, if a vendor did attempt this I am confident we would still have similar discussions as no 1 product makes everyone happy. I think we all can agree on this?
Yeah, but to me it looks like the criticisms are fairly predictable and uniform. No panners on the fader pack. No scribble strip on the fader pack. Touch strip instead of motorized fader. Etc.

I'm not saying these new little units aren't good for some people, they're probably excellent for them. I'm just saying that it's one more device marketed towards Cubase coming out of Steinberg. I know this will sound "offensive" to some, but I'm only using this word to make a point:

If you want to be known as a toy manufacturer then you continue to make and market toys.

Like I said, they're not toys, but they're not even mid-segment either. It doesn't do much for the "professional" sphere. Yeah, I know, that wasn't the goal, but that's my point. The point is also that while you keep putting out these devices Nuendo users wait for months, over a year even, to "catch up" with Cubase in terms of upgrades, and still with no "dedicated" hardware for it.

Question: What do you think the reception would have been if Steinberg / Yamaha had announced something like this branded and marketed for Nuendo:



Please note that I said "like this", so not necessarily exactly that. And a major difference is that most stores in the US carry controllers from the main manufacturers so one can try them on for a bit. Not so with WK's controllers. Can you imagine what they'll say if I go in there and say "Hey, can you import this 8,000 dollar device for me so I can try it out? I may buy it." They'd laugh. And in this economy who on earth drops that amount of cash on mechanical hardware by a small company manufactured overseas that one haven't even laid ones hands on?....

So, surely you see the difference it would make in perception, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
This is all good professional feedback. I appreciate it!
I know you do. Unfortunately not everyone at Steinberg is like that....
Old 1st October 2011
  #129
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskay View Post
I'm all ok for the new stuff....it will fit a lot of bedroom producers. But.....
I don't think I disagreed with a single thing you wrote....
Old 1st October 2011
  #130
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I don't think I disagreed with a single thing you wrote....
I think the AI knob is quite brilliant and dare I say "pro". I'd been interested in the Nocturne Automap stuff for years but thought having to wrap the plugins would be problematic for many reasons. Having that kind of instantaneous control will trump my Euphonix for quickly tweaking plugin parameters. THere's nothing worse I hate than having to spin virtual knobs with a mouse.

My biggest complaint about the Artist Series is the rotary knobs are terrible. They catch and jump when turning them. Very inaccurate. The faders are great however. And the EUCON system is the best thing.
Old 1st October 2011
  #131
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yikesboy View Post
LEX, it's akin to poking a stick at a rabid animal- just a not wise thing to do. I get the feeling that no matter what the argument might be, there's little hope of rational discussion here.

I will say this though as I can't resist to round out this general discussion: the future of sweat shop audio for the myriad of cheap production happening out there does not favor "expensive" fader solutions. The fader is a throwback to the old days when signal actually passed through that part of the console - approximations by innacurate mechanisms such as Euphonix Artist series will eventually wear out their welcome. This is because older guys like you and I (my assumption that you grew up with real faders) WILL move on and the new breed who are used to working with a keyboard and mouse will take over. Client eye candy will become too expensive for all but the largest houses. Mixing film and huge track count, yes, I would agree that there's still a compelling argument for System 5 and the Digi consoles but again, those will be large houses.

By the way, I go all the way back to running Optifile with various consoles and have been engineering/producing music since the early 1990s. Your assumptions about 'fan boys' (as you so charmingly tried to paint me) are dead wrong and offensive.tutt
Well, based on what I was told was posted, people were lining up to see my response.

Unfortunately, I'm not on the forums much so I only knew by what I was told.

There are 2 camps. Mouse and console.
Mouse, many aren't making a living with a mouse unless they are an editor.

Here is the reality from the business point of view.

Getting the job done. Turnover.

While I'm sure you can get the job done both ways, any engineer/mixer will tell you, they can get the job done 100 times faster with a console.

That's the point of the tool.
I you had, even a small to medium sized facility, your investment point would be to make a profit.

People hire "talent" not facilities. So, whether you can do a great job with either method, workflow, time and efficiency is key to both the client and the business.

With all these "new" things, Ipads SB's Fischer Price toy, maybe great. And may work well for those who aren't under the gun and worried about paying their rent.

But, on the professional side, slow and inefficiency is deadly to you and your business.

Any one who has either worked in a facility or owns a facility will tell you. The more business the better.
You can get the job done faster, with equally high standards when you have a tool like a console to get it done.
And the more you can do, the more money you make.

Most people have lives outside of work as well. They'd rather do their job well, efficiently and effectively and go home, then have to spend 4 extra hours mucking around with software and a mouse.

That's one MAIN reason I left Nuendo and SB completely. Besides the fact they don't listen to users, the software was more cumbersome and time consuming.
I turn Pro Tools on, work, go home. Whether it be behind an ICON, System 5 or DFC.
The tools allow me to work efficiently, quickly all while retaining the high standards of my clients and myself.

Then I can go home, and not think about it.

While this SB toy may have a place in bedroom studios and hobbyists, it doesn't nearly equal what the artist series can do.

The toy is for Cubase, and Cubase only. The artist series works with just about everything.
You can customize it anyway you want.
Considering its "application aware", you can even get it to do commands without ever even touching your KB or mouse.

Since it doesn't sound like you've have much experience with it, sit in front of one with Logic, PT, Final Cut Pro open, and watch it instantly switch between them as well as OSX, will EuCon functionality for all of them.

That's innovation. That's smart. And that's why it will continue to do well over other "controllers" in the market.

EuCon for All. SB AI for Cubase. When it all starts falling apart and there is this bug and that bug, and it ends up in the "discontinued" bin like every other SB hardware product, don't say I didn't tell you so.
Old 1st October 2011
  #132
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Yeah we know your feelings of Steinberg and I have shared those sentiments to a certain extent. But honestly I think I have sensed a turn for the better with Steinberg. I was actually quite SHOCKED that they released all those Cubase 6 new features in Nuendo 5.5 for free! I was thinking we would be leapfrogged yet again for at least another year and then have to pay for them. Quite refreshing actually. And then they released those 64 bit Midex drivers. Even more shocking.
Old 1st October 2011
  #133
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Yeah we know your feelings of Steinberg and I have shared those sentiments to a certain extent. But honestly I think I have sensed a turn for the better with Steinberg. I was actually quite SHOCKED that they released all those Cubase 6 new features in Nuendo 5.5 for free! I was thinking we would be leapfrogged yet again for at least another year and then have to pay for them. Quite refreshing actually. And then they released those 64 bit Midex drivers. Even more shocking.
Yeah. Nuendo 5.5 for free. You couldn't see the writing on the wall.

A "charged" Nuendo 5.5 would have sent the remaining few Nuendo 5 users running.

The fact they announced a "charge" for is was a clear sign Nuendo is in bad shape.

64 bit drivers for Midex. LOL!. Bigger story behind that one, not to mention they don't even support it.

Be that as it may, you may be blinded by the SB smoke and mirrors, but there are a lot of us who have seen it, experienced it and then did it again a second and third time.
We realize now, its just BullS**T.

Surprised people still accept and continue to accept Fredo there too. He responsible for at least half the users leaving SB.

The grass IS greener.
The 1 percent problems I have with PT pales in comparison to the 90 percent problems in Nuendo.
Old 1st October 2011
  #134
Gear Head
 

Lex

Hope you are well.

I'm a bit confused and I write this not for sake of the CMC thread or my Steinberg association, but more someone who works in the biz like you.

You say people hire talent, not facilities. But then you label certain items as toys? If a 'toy' meets a need for the 'talent' doesn't that balance out?

Now my Steinberg hat.

What's this bigger story behind Midex you know that I don't? I've always been as transparent as can be. Let's chat... grab lunch? I'll buy

As far as N5.5, it was free. That's the result. Nothing else can be assumed. As I expressed many times, in text and in person, Nuendo is pushing forward. I and my colleagues are commited to this (all Steinberg products) and we look forward to illustrating such.

If it, Cubase or Nuendo, doesn't work for you - wherever you may be working at now or at home - that's ok. There are options. Others may find it as a viable solution.
Old 1st October 2011
  #135
Gear Head
 

Lex, just caught this but...

I know a number of folk (not only editors) making a living with a mouse and keyboard. Think outside post for a minute. Would you like me to introduce you to some of them (Steinberg and non Steinberg users)? Same folk under the gun, families, paying rent... mortgage, kids tuition and dentist visits, etc.

I know I'm representing corporate here but do you truly stand by this statement in full?

Last edited by bmcgovern; 1st October 2011 at 06:45 PM.. Reason: Changed to 'making a living' to be consistent w/ the thread
Old 1st October 2011
  #136
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
Lex, just caught this but...

I know a number of folk (not only editors) making lots of money with a mouse and keyboard. Think outside post for a minute. Would you like me to introduce you to some of them (Steinberg and non Steinberg users)? Same folk under the gun, families, paying rent... mortgage, kids tuition and dentist visits, etc.

I know I'm representing corporate here but do you truly stand by this statement in full?
hey Brian,

I think it might be Gearslutz policy that you put your business affliation in your signature.
Old 1st October 2011
  #137
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
Yeah. Nuendo 5.5 for free. You couldn't see the writing on the wall.

A "charged" Nuendo 5.5 would have sent the remaining few Nuendo 5 users running.

The fact they announced a "charge" for is was a clear sign Nuendo is in bad shape.

64 bit drivers for Midex. LOL!. Bigger story behind that one, not to mention they don't even support it.

Be that as it may, you may be blinded by the SB smoke and mirrors, but there are a lot of us who have seen it, experienced it and then did it again a second and third time.
We realize now, its just BullS**T.

Surprised people still accept and continue to accept Fredo there too. He responsible for at least half the users leaving SB.

The grass IS greener.
The 1 percent problems I have with PT pales in comparison to the 90 percent problems in Nuendo.
That may be so.... that grass may be greener (in more ways than one) but I don't like Protools. I tried to get a long with it a couple of times (one quite recently) and missed the Cubendo way of doing things. If Cubendo get's VCA groups that's about the only thing I lust after in Protools.
Old 1st October 2011
  #138
Administrator
 
Grahamdwc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
hey Brian,

I think it might be Gearslutz policy that you put your business affliation in your signature.
Hi Animus,
He does but as far as i remember, signatures only show up once per page.
They used to show on every post but that was changed some time back.

Graham
Old 1st October 2011
  #139
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahamdwc View Post
Hi Animus,
He does but as far as i remember, signatures only show up once per page.
They used to show on every post but that was changed some time back.

Graham
oh yeah you are right. I knew that and checked for it but missed it. :-)
Old 1st October 2011
  #140
Gear Head
 

I do have it there as seen in other posts. Not sure why it's not showing? I am typing from the mobile app?

Edit: I see G answered. Thx
Old 1st October 2011
  #141
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
Lex, just caught this but...

I know a number of folk (not only editors) making a living with a mouse and keyboard. Think outside post for a minute. Would you like me to introduce you to some of them (Steinberg and non Steinberg users)? Same folk under the gun, families, paying rent... mortgage, kids tuition and dentist visits, etc.

I know I'm representing corporate here but do you truly stand by this statement in full?
Come on man. I know there are people, of course.

But lets look at the whole pie. There is probably 1 percent of that pie that does that.

I was merely stating that the majority in our world, doesn't and won't work with only a mouse.
I don't completely use the console for every single move. Sometimes I use a mouse to set a pan. I'm sure everyone does to some degree.

But truly mouse and keyboard crew is small.

My point being more that SB seems to be catering more to the lower end, and keyboard and mouse crews then the larger percentage of the pie.

WE can all pretend Nuendo is growing and staying strong. But from everything Ive seen over the past year or so, its stagnent if not dropped considerably by the the user base.

I know your a different breed then the rest of the HQ boys, and there is only so much you can do.
They don't even listen to you.

As far as the Midex thing, if you don't know I can't say.

You've got alot of heart and dedication to SB that they don't appreciate. Maybe its time you focused that energy elsewhere, say AVID!

I think you'd both gain from that move.
You wouldn't be the first from SB to make that move. Seems like the boys who did are quiet happy about it too.
Old 1st October 2011
  #142
Gear Head
 

Just going off what you said: "There are 2 camps. Mouse and console.
Mouse, many aren't making a living with a mouse unless they are an editor."

Don't get me wrong, if I had the funds I'd have a desk. Be it an analog desk with desired AD/DA. Still I think your 1% assumption is way off base as many are. Yes some may use a single fader unit in conjunction and these new CMC solutions can offer more options. There is work beyond post anentourage know I enjoy post. There's video game work, remixes, etc.... all audio engineering related.

This discussion is becoming clouded and I think you are purely focusing on the large studios and workflow. Fair enough and in now way are we suggesting these products will find there way there. I wouldn't expect them to, but there are still opportunities.

Midex topic, I have knowledge about the release, it's transparent, but you raise a claim of more? We can chat offline about it if like. I'm curious

As far as my employment, no need to comment beyond I'm fine where I am for professional and personal reasoning. I'm not the only Steinberg employee that is passionate.

All good stuff my friend. Let's all enjoy the weekend. Off to a gig, and taking my CMC-PD. Gonna try it to trigger stuff live

Also if throwing facts, the boys moved to Euphonix
Old 1st October 2011
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgovern View Post
Also if throwing facts, the boys moved to Euphonix
Who are now a part of AVID !
Old 1st October 2011
  #144
Gear Head
 

Well yes of course we know that. The move was pre acquisition. Anyway, irrelevant to this thread.

Hope Oz is well. My bud was just visiting his hometown of Adelaide. One day I'll get there.
Old 2nd October 2011
  #145
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
SB won't ever listen because they believe they know better than you.
Unfortunately, I have to agree.

Example:
Change of behavior with automation points that now vanish. Steinberg released this "feature" saying it looks "cleaner." Almost 100% of users in the Cubase forum are against this new feature, yet the moderator at first failed to comprehend why. He suggested users didn't know how to use Cubase. He offered work-arounds. Many explained in clear English why they wanted the old behavior back and the fact that work-arounds caused more work. Finally after dozens of negative comments, he said he would forward our concerns.

When users asked to make this an option in the preferences, the moderator went to great detail as to why Steinberg tries to avoid making something like this an option in the preferences.

Then occasionally a moderator will remind forum users that we represent less than 1% of all users, therefore just because there is an overwhelming majority in a forum who hate a new forced feature, that doesn't mean Steinberg should listen.

Another example:
No PDF or paper manual included for Wavelab7. Nothing...just a very lame help system when mousing over something. The Wavelab 6 manual is 768 pages. Apparently Steinberg thinks users don't need a comprehensive manual, even though...again...almost 100% have been begging for a manual from day 1. Ironically Wavelab 7 is more difficult to implement and use than Wavelab 6.

Again I think it's Steinberg arrogance. But keep in mind, it's not professionals who are keeping theses DAWs afloat. It's those bedroom producers using their "toys." That, unfortunately, is where the money is at.
Old 2nd October 2011
  #146
LEX
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Unfortunately, I have to agree.

Example:
Change of behavior with automation points that now vanish. Steinberg released this "feature" saying it looks "cleaner." Almost 100% of users in the Cubase forum are against this new feature, yet the moderator at first failed to comprehend why. He suggested users didn't know how to use Cubase. He offered work-arounds. Many explained in clear English why they wanted the old behavior back and the fact that work-arounds caused more work. Finally after dozens of negative comments, he said he would forward our concerns.

When users asked to make this an option in the preferences, the moderator went to great detail as to why Steinberg tries to avoid making something like this an option in the preferences.

Then occasionally a moderator will remind forum users that we represent less than 1% of all users, therefore just because there is an overwhelming majority in a forum who hate a new forced feature, that doesn't mean Steinberg should listen.

Another example:
No PDF or paper manual included for Wavelab7. Nothing...just a very lame help system when mousing over something. The Wavelab 6 manual is 768 pages. Apparently Steinberg thinks users don't need a comprehensive manual, even though...again...almost 100% have been begging for a manual from day 1. Ironically Wavelab 7 is more difficult to implement and use than Wavelab 6.

Again I think it's Steinberg arrogance. But keep in mind, it's not professionals who are keeping theses DAWs afloat. It's those bedroom producers using their "toys." That, unfortunately, is where the money is at.
Very well said. I was a SB user for 10 years and it finally became enough. I wasn't the only one either.

A very deep Nuendo user switched to Pro Tools, more as a test and to have have PT if needed, and switched completely after using it.

Another example:
www.steinberg.net &bull; View topic - NUENDO 5.5.XX white screen BUG See link

A video example isn't good? Because it takes you to another website? YouTube?! Really.

Its another way of SB to push the users away, to "deal" with it and not make a fuss.
They don't like it when it is public, and when video's clearly show it, it makes it look worse.

The video is very clear, and probably much faster to create then typing up the repos.
This is just lazy SB arrogance. Same then, same now.

If you read further down, Bobby says while his clients are willing to give nuendo a "shot", he had to fire Nuendo twice in one week because of this bug and crashing.
Of Course, he went to Pro Tools and got the job done.

SB looks at users as annoying, bothersome and a waste of time.
"Buy it and shutup" seems to be their motto.
Old 2nd October 2011
  #147
Lives for gear
 

........"Almost 100% of users in the Cubase forum are against this new feature......"


Good thing 100% of users on a forum doesn't equal 100% of the user base. That would be disaster!

Hey, the cmc thingee looks similar to some overlays I've seen for the 3m touchscreen display. I see convergence in all our futures!
Old 3rd October 2011
  #148
Lives for gear
 
Beyersound's Avatar
I make good records with Steinberg products. This thread is actually about their controller product. The rest of this off topic banter is unnecessary rubbish!
Old 3rd October 2011
  #149
Lives for gear
 
Ivorydom's Avatar
 

Well, apart from the pricing, which I think is more expensive than it should be, I wonder how these touch sensitive faders will actually feel. Will they be responsive, will they be TOO responsive? I wonder how easy it will be to place four fingers on each channel and balance the levels...
Old 3rd October 2011
  #150
Gear Maniac
 
Lander's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEX View Post
Very well said. I was a SB user for 10 years and it finally became enough. I wasn't the only one either.

A very deep Nuendo user switched to Pro Tools, more as a test and to have have PT if needed, and switched completely after using it.

Another example:
www.steinberg.net &bull; View topic - NUENDO 5.5.XX white screen BUG See link

A video example isn't good? Because it takes you to another website? YouTube?! Really.

Its another way of SB to push the users away, to "deal" with it and not make a fuss.
They don't like it when it is public, and when video's clearly show it, it makes it look worse.

The video is very clear, and probably much faster to create then typing up the repos.
This is just lazy SB arrogance. Same then, same now.

If you read further down, Bobby says while his clients are willing to give nuendo a "shot", he had to fire Nuendo twice in one week because of this bug and crashing.
Of Course, he went to Pro Tools and got the job done.

SB looks at users as annoying, bothersome and a waste of time.
"Buy it and shutup" seems to be their motto.

I see the Emus have surfaced here at Gearslutz!

Hi Vin/Lex

Yo Lex, Neil had that comment on the link to another site. He is not a Steinberg rep. He is just a user.

Further, I support Steinberg's method of error reporting. Bobby's video had a lot of tracks in it from the get go and he has stated it is a template from an earlier version of Nuendo which can cause problems. What version? Nuendo 3.x???


ANYWAY>>>> BACK ON TOPIC NOW:

The CMC series look all right. For $150 USD too.. I don't see anything at that price point. The CMC series are not what I need because I can do all that and more with my current setup. I do look forward to seeing the release of the higher-end control surfaces they are to announce this month (so I have read on the internet).

I do confess I was a bit pissed too when they were launched because I felt I had no input on the product and I still think that viral video was stupid. Timo did bring to my attention that they did a survey in 2009 and he was telling the truth. I found a thread talking about it here on Gearslutz. The survey was about control surfaces.

In my opinion, Steinberg did a good job of filling a market slot where nothing like the CMC series is at. They will sell a lot of these puppies. Now for Steinberg's mid-range controller.....
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