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Room Acoustics for vox! Dynamic Microphones
Old 8th September 2011
  #1
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Room Acoustics for vox!

I will probably get a good bashing for this:

I recently got a part share on two different studios for some mates, so I put some money into stocks and I get to use them for free.

When recording in what I might say is a damn well equipped studio (For the last couple of months), it makes little to no difference than recording in my little room.

People bang on about there room all the time, yes if you live in a bat cave it will probably be worth you sorting it out. If not:

A) Learn to mix right
B) don't Point the mic at your forehead or hairline
C) Don't expect miracles from a £20.00 MIC!!!
D) Don't buy a £50.00 all in one interface and expect it to be god damn awesome.
E) Learn to sing.


Best things I ever did was / new interface / new pre-amp / new mic's...

I recorded a guy yesterday he is an awesome singer in an untreated or treated room.. It does not matter.
Old 8th September 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I would put no 5) Learn to sing (or play your f***ing instrument) first!
Old 8th September 2011
  #3
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Originally Posted by faramita View Post
I would put no 5) Learn to sing (or play your f***ing instrument) first!

Damn right bruv.
Old 9th September 2011
  #4
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
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Best things I ever did was / new interface / new pre-amp / new mic's...
So your saying that the interface colors the sound more then the room?
Old 9th September 2011
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

My experience is quite opposite. I have a well treated room ( bass traps in corners, RFZ points treated, aurlex and clouds, but I did have carpet. To top that off I am 47, been playing elect. guitar for 39 years, and was havng the hardest time hearing around 2-4 k when mixing. I just installed wood floors, and my room now sounds amazing! I haven't recorded any full songs yet, just overdubs, but those tracks just stand on their own in a very clear, nice way. I also remixed some earlier recordings and the remixes are just so much more pleasant to listen to with no harshness in earlier mixes. While I was at it, I went and had my hearing checked and sure enough, between 3-4k I have a 20db dip (probably from the guitar over the years - I play loud, er used to!LOL), but that on top of the carpet absorbing those freq's, I was really struggling. I use Dynaudio BM5a's at the moment, and would have liked to spend the $7K I used on the floor for some Focal's, but went the floor route instead. I have no regrets. Perhaps next year I'll upgrade the monitors, but I feel having a well tuned/treated room is crucial in accurately recording and mixing music. My room is +/- 10 db from 50hz up to 14k, then it spikes up 2 more db, so I'll need to go after that next.
Old 9th September 2011
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
So your saying that the interface colors the sound more then the room?
Depends on the room..

Some untreated rooms can work to your advantage..
Old 9th September 2011
  #7
Haha, touche!
Old 9th September 2011
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcressy View Post
My experience is quite opposite. I have a well treated room ( bass traps in corners, RFZ points treated, aurlex and clouds, but I did have carpet. To top that off I am 47, been playing elect. guitar for 39 years, and was havng the hardest time hearing around 2-4 k when mixing. I just installed wood floors, and my room now sounds amazing! I haven't recorded any full songs yet, just overdubs, but those tracks just stand on their own in a very clear, nice way. I also remixed some earlier recordings and the remixes are just so much more pleasant to listen to with no harshness in earlier mixes. While I was at it, I went and had my hearing checked and sure enough, between 3-4k I have a 20db dip (probably from the guitar over the years - I play loud, er used to!LOL), but that on top of the carpet absorbing those freq's, I was really struggling. I use Dynaudio BM5a's at the moment, and would have liked to spend the $7K I used on the floor for some Focal's, but went the floor route instead. I have no regrets. Perhaps next year I'll upgrade the monitors, but I feel having a well tuned/treated room is crucial in accurately recording and mixing music. My room is +/- 10 db from 50hz up to 14k, then it spikes up 2 more db, so I'll need to go after that next.
That's kool!! I think the point I'm trying to get at in this thread is logic.

If you plug a line in mic to a soundblaster 16 you can guarantee it won't sound fantastic in any scenario and further still if don't know what to do with it after it's been recorded.

I think it's not one thing but a collection of things that equate to a good sound.

It's not the end of the world if you have an imperfect room, just like you can get great results from substandard gear. It's all about the know how..

If you have an imperfect room but know it's quirks, then you get around it with a duvet or six :P

If I close mic my vox on an SM7b the room does not become a massive factor, don't get me wrong if I can hear a truck passing by outside.. Or I say hello in a room and I can have a delayed conversation with myself, I really need to sort it out.

It takes talent and some common sense, that's all..
Old 9th September 2011
  #9
Kind of a weird statement to make!

An "untreated" room can sound great. Providing you like the sound of the room. A "treated" but dry room won't help your drum or acoustic recording.

Your singer may have sounded great in the room you had, but if you wanted a dry upfront vocal, or you wanted to record a voiceover, you'd have been out of luck. Most of the time, for pop/rock, you compress the vocal a lot - and room tone will be very noticeable, and not always appropriate.

A treated room is much more important for mixing. For recording, you just want it to sound good - treated or untreated, designed or just lucky.

Oh, and a bat cave could sound great...esp for drums....have to move the batmobile first though.
Old 10th September 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Kind of a weird statement to make!

An "untreated" room can sound great. Providing you like the sound of the room. A "treated" but dry room won't help your drum or acoustic recording.

Your singer may have sounded great in the room you had, but if you wanted a dry upfront vocal, or you wanted to record a voiceover, you'd have been out of luck. Most of the time, for pop/rock, you compress the vocal a lot - and room tone will be very noticeable, and not always appropriate.

A treated room is much more important for mixing. For recording, you just want it to sound good - treated or untreated, designed or just lucky.

Oh, and a bat cave could sound great...esp for drums....have to move the batmobile first thought.
By the way I like your posts They do keep me entertained.

It's one of those things really, I just don't think it is important to creating good sounding music as people make it out to be.. Obviously if your room is a hindrance then you need to get it sorted out.

But if it's not then crack on improving your skills and make sure what you have going in sounds good in the first place.

I'll double up on myself, if your room is causing the signal going in to have undesired effects you do need to sort it out. But if your happy to mix and record in a room that isn't causing issues then meh!!

It's just there seems to be the room police lurking round the corner, can't say much more or I might get thrown in a cellar with a starved tiger..
Old 10th September 2011
  #11
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
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I'll double up on myself, if your room is causing the signal going in to have undesired effects you do need to sort it out. But if your happy to mix and record in a room that isn't causing issues then meh!!
A live room can be just about anything. IMO there is no rule to how the acoustics (room sound) should be. But for a control room it is very important to have it so you are mixing to the monitors, not the monitors plus room effect.

Quote:
It's just there seems to be the room police lurking round the corner, can't say much more or I might get thrown in a cellar with a starved tiger..
I would say there are more police around here about using EXPENSIVE gear way more then room acoustics. Trust me I am all about nice gear, but there was a reason I brought up the interface. If you can hear the difference with a interface then you sure should be able to hear the influence of a room.

Take a listen to the following video starting around 3:30. It has music recorded with and without treatment. Which room would you rather mix in? If a interface had that much of a difference you would say it was broke (treated sound vs untreated sound from video).
GIK Acoustics. Treated and untreated listening room video.
Old 10th September 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
A live room can be just about anything. IMO there is no rule to how the acoustics (room sound) should be. But for a control room it is very important to have it so you are mixing to the monitors, not the monitors plus room effect.



I would say there are more police around here about using EXPENSIVE gear way more then room acoustics. Trust me I am all about nice gear, but there was a reason I brought up the interface. If you can hear the difference with a interface then you sure should be able to hear the influence of a room.

Take a listen to the following video starting around 3:30. It has music recorded with and without treatment. Which room would you rather mix in? If a interface had that much of a difference you would say it was broke (treated sound vs untreated sound from video).
GIK Acoustics. Treated and untreated listening room video.
To summize, if you do a good mix and it translates very well on other systems and it's in an untreated room.. What's the problem?
Old 10th September 2011
  #13
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
To summize, if you do a good mix and it translates very well on other systems and it's in an untreated room.. What's the problem?
See the following thread.
crazed new religion: ROOM doesn't matter
Old 10th September 2011
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Know your room. That is all...
Old 10th September 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Not quite what I'm on about Glenn, but was an interesting read thankyou. I'm not saying if you have a bad room it won't hurt you and I definitely not saying that if you have bad speakers it won't hurt you..

It's like everything in your chain, if you have a problem with it do something about it.. But others should know that your room being 100% perfect is not going to make up for a lack of anything else.

You can make good recordings in an untreated room with some duvets.

It's simple...
Old 10th September 2011
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Well like I said when it comes to the live room there are no rules, but for myself I like to have it at a manageable point then use duvets (actually I like to use gobos) to tame any upper frequency room effects. But when it comes to the control room I do not want room influence at all.
With all of that said this is your thread and your moan, so I don't want to take that away from you.
Old 10th September 2011
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Well like I said when it comes to the live room there are no rules, but for myself I like to have it at a manageable point then use duvets (actually I like to use gobos) to tame any upper frequency room effects. But when it comes to the control room I do not want room influence at all.
With all of that said this is your thread and your moan, so I don't want to take that away from you.

Lol is no probs I like your input and I do see your point.. But whatever works right?
Old 10th September 2011
  #18
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
But whatever works right?
That's pretty much how life works.
Old 11th September 2011
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
By the way I like your posts They do keep me entertained.

It's one of those things really, I just don't think it is important to creating good sounding music as people make it out to be.. Obviously if your room is a hindrance then you need to get it sorted out.

But if it's not then crack on improving your skills and make sure what you have going in sounds good in the first place.

I'll double up on myself, if your room is causing the signal going in to have undesired effects you do need to sort it out. But if your happy to mix and record in a room that isn't causing issues then meh!!

It's just there seems to be the room police lurking round the corner, can't say much more or I might get thrown in a cellar with a starved tiger..
I'm glad I'm appreciated
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