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Analog vs. Digital hahahahaha i know Digital Converters
Old 4th September 2011
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
VoltsUnited's Avatar
 

Analog vs. Digital hahahahaha i know

i watched a behind the scenes of some film production. different directors and film guys were arguing what they thought to be better... animatronics or CGI. it reminded me exactly of the debates i read on here over analog vs. digital. then i realized the movies being discussed were all great! no matter what the method.

So it really doesn't matter after all.
Old 4th September 2011
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

... Thanks for sharing?
Old 4th September 2011
  #3
Gear Head
 

uhuh...
Old 4th September 2011
  #4
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltsUnited View Post
i watched a behind the scenes of some film production. different directors and film guys were arguing what they thought to be better... animatronics or CGI. it reminded me exactly of the debates i read on here over analog vs. digital. then i realized the movies being discussed were all great! no matter what the method.

So it really doesn't matter after all.
I find most CGI very disappointing - makes many movies look like a Bon Jovi record sounds...... from the new Star Wars films to LOTR. Tron got it right - as did the excellent Zodiac. CGi - best when invisible, ****e when overt.
Old 5th September 2011
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
VoltsUnited's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by r4uz View Post
... Thanks for sharing?
no prob
Old 5th September 2011
  #6
restpause
Guest
BOTH! (as usual)... heh
Old 5th September 2011
  #7
TRA
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There are a ton of movies that would completely suck had they been done using CGI. It has its place, but animatronic still looks most convincing. It seems like movies are built around salaries instead of funding areas that are a detriment to making a quality movie (like animatronics) so they fall back on nerds with computers. Kinda like instead of hiring a good drummer or good gear we rely on beat detective and sample replacing.
Old 5th September 2011
  #8
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CGI sucks.
Old 5th September 2011
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Yes CGI sucks. I'll take animatronics, set building, real-life models, stop-motion animation, De Palm style green-screen projection and cell-painting/manipulation thank you very much. All of these things have a viscerality, creativity and palpablility that CGI utterly fails to capture.

CGI = Fail.

Same goes for modern recording. Digital is merely adequate and it's cheap (yay democratization?) but will nevr render truly great records. Great storage medium though.
Old 6th September 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Digital is merely adequate and it's cheap (yay democratization?) but will nevr render truly great records.
And here I've thought that great records rely on the talent and creativity of the people who make them. Guess that I was wrong and it's all about the recording medium...
Old 10th September 2011
  #11
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
I like analogue gear because it has knobs and lights, I like ITB gear because I can watch porn at the same time as twiddling my dual reverb meter.

Discussion is on a winner.!
Old 10th September 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
And here I've thought that great records rely on the talent and creativity of the people who make them. Guess that I was wrong and it's all about the recording medium...
That is a very broad statement, what do you mean? Because if you also mean e.g. the talent and creativity of producers, set designers, cinematograpers etc., then the discussion is entirely relevant. I think all serious movie makers are aware of these things. Just like painters who choose their paint and brushes with care, choices affect the final result.

Movies are visual, so visual production decisions are important and crucial to the final output. Consider e.g. black and white versus color, or 2D versus 3D, I'm sure you would agree that those choices have a considerable impact on the end result.
To me, CGI feels a bit unengaging. E.g. consider Blade Runner made with all CGI. The story would still be the same, the acting might have suffered a bit, and it would lose a bit of it's tangible visual character.

I think the discussion is basically analogous to the digital/analog sound discussion, and the differences (tangibility/depth) in both fields seem to reinforce a point: ears and eyes alike are highly sensitive to what they interpret.
Old 10th September 2011
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltsUnited View Post
film guys
....but, are they filmguys...really? Or just HD-Video guys. Not sure, don't know your buddies or their work. I don't know who's rolling film and who's rolling bit buckets. Playing tricks with technology seems easy these days. At a certain point "convincing me", is somewhat of a "fool's earned" in my view, in the business of entertainment.

Does anyone actually feel they are tricked into believing the movies are real? This is a wives tale, that we are led to believe from child hood. "it looked so real!!!!" If you are a person of logic, you leave this notion behind and try to be entertained by the visual, and impressed by the movie making expertise.

When I watch old Film, it makes my eyes feel less stressed and relaxed, invited into the complexity...High definition stuff makes them "try harder" to see all the details since they are pushed forward...The Detail is not intrinsic, but rather, intensified. When I listen to records, on my hi-fi, I am reminded how flat CD's actually sound compared.

With gear, things that are band limited or lacking "for the birds" resolution makes my ears feel nice. Using gear that is beyond the scope of human recognizance, makes my ears "wince". While it doesn't matter what you use to get there, if you have but one subjective emotion like mine above, you at least stand for something related to your preference. Anything else, is simply someone's opinion.

But I would align with astroidmist who like myself, is using -
Quote:
BOTH! (as usual)...
Old 10th September 2011
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

I like Bacon. There is no substitute.
Old 10th September 2011
  #15
Deleted 6ccb844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbob131313 View Post
I like Bacon. There is no substitute.
MMM BACON!!
Old 11th September 2011
  #16
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*yawn*
Old 13th September 2011
  #17
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kennybro's Avatar
No comparison between Animation/CG, vs. Analog/Digi. Apples and oranges. Digital medium is capable of capturing, storing and reproducing analog medium characteristics. CGI is not capable of capturing and storing anything. It's not even a storage medium, it's an image generation medium.

Maybe if the audio argument was... "What's better? A real violin or a synthesized violin?"
Old 13th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
I like analogue gear because it has knobs and lights, I like ITB gear because I can watch porn at the same time as twiddling my dual reverb meter.

Discussion is on a winner.!
Never heard it called that before.
Old 13th September 2011
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Great topic!

I love analog! Digital sucks!
Old 14th September 2011
  #20
Gear Addict
 
adogg4629's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
I find most CGI very disappointing - makes many movies look like a Bon Jovi record sounds...... from the new Star Wars films to LOTR. Tron got it right - as did the excellent Zodiac. CGi - best when invisible, ****e when overt.
I find that CGI is very "cold". It doesn't have the "warmth" of cell animation.
Old 15th September 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
That is a very broad statement, what do you mean? Because if you also mean e.g. the talent and creativity of producers, set designers, cinematograpers etc., then the discussion is entirely relevant.

...

I think the discussion is basically analogous to the digital/analog sound discussion, and the differences (tangibility/depth) in both fields seem to reinforce a point: ears and eyes alike are highly sensitive to what they interpret.
The quote I was responding to referred specifically to "records".
Old 15th September 2011
  #22
If anyone says digital can't make a good record, I assume then that they are only enjoying music that:

1. Was recorded all analog without ever entering the digital realm for editing or mixing.
2. Was mastered directly to analog tape or vinyl and stayed there

If you plan to sell/hear your music in any digital format (CD/iTunes), then it's a digital recording, at least at the end, no matter how much analog gear you passed through on the way there.
Old 15th September 2011
  #23
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
The quote I was responding to referred specifically to "records".
Indeed you did, sorry.

In principle, it's the same though, a lot of stuff goes on, also technically (sound capturing and storing, mixing and mastering and converting) before the final record hits the streets. Don't you think that stuff matters to the final expression and how people 'hear' the record?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
...
If you plan to sell/hear your music in any digital format (CD/iTunes), then it's a digital recording, at least at the end, no matter how much analog gear you passed through on the way there.
Yea, but what we do up until final conversion is entirely up to us. Source matters too, and how we treat/process it.
Old 15th September 2011
  #24
Deleted 6ccb844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
The quote I was responding to referred specifically to "records".
Chris go search for it :P

Always wanted to do that.
Old 16th September 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Chris go search for it :P

Always wanted to do that.
Awesome! heh

I actually chuckled.


Thanks.
Old 16th September 2011
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Indeed you did, sorry.

In principle, it's the same though, a lot of stuff goes on, also technically (sound capturing and storing, mixing and mastering and converting) before the final record hits the streets. Don't you think that stuff matters to the final expression and how people 'hear' the record?
It all makes a difference, but what is really important?

1- A great performance of a great song will not be anything else whether recorded or rendered digitally or analog.

2- A great engineer at the reins of either a digital or analog system with the material included in point #1 will do justice to it. Period.

The end result, be it analog or digital, will contain a world-class performance of a world-class song massaged by a world-class engineer. The limitations of the medium of rendering will more than likely have been addressed and compensated for at every step of the way, and whatever differences remain will be negligible, otherwise you're either not honestly listening to the end result or the end result is not doing the material justice. In either case the medium in question is not the issue.

There are differences, but in the case of what makes a record "great", the recording/rendering medium plays a very small role. That is what I was talking about.
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