The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
ITB: it's still a lie Equalizer Plugins
Old 23rd June 2011
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
You're right. Plug-ins DON'T sound exactly like analog hardware. I agree completely.

I still mix ITB 100%. My mixes sound great. I don't see any problems.



Thus concludes another episode of stating the obvious in a heckling manner in order to wind up controversy.
Nice web page you got by the way, good reading about uad-2 I agree 100%

/Jon
Old 23rd June 2011
  #122
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
Never said software sucks, only mentioned that software piggyback riding harware heroes, still doesn't deliver. Despite all ****ty marketing efforts.
Yet you still haven't addressed your hypocritical post where you state that the SSL X-Verb is the equal of the Lexicon 480L.

Didn't think you would.


Frank
Old 23rd June 2011
  #123
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Yet you still haven't addressed your hypocritical post where you state that the SSL X-Verb is the equal of the Lexicon 480L.

Didn't think you would.


Frank
I didn't mean the hardware unit, meant the RElab SW thing.

My point was that both X-verb, PCM and Relab L480 sound more or less the same, but still nothing like a high end HW unit. So once you've got one of the 3 no point in buying any of the others as they all more or less deliver the same.
Old 23rd June 2011
  #124
Lives for gear
 
travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Plus la change, plus la meme chose.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Good post.
Old 23rd June 2011
  #125
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock View Post
I just recently started using Ableton Live and I have never used a DAW before. I am really impressed with its effects, compression reverb etc. I have always been otb with tape and Radar Neotek etc.

Maybe my ears are going bad but I think the sound quality of the plugins built into Live are extremely good.

If this is any indication of how even obviously better plug-ins sound I do not see why someone who is good at itb mixing would not be happy there.
One of the best posts I have ever read on GS!!!

Ahh... does it counts for the record-sales in which domain a song was mixed???? I still guess no!!!
Old 23rd June 2011
  #126
Gear maniac
 
Eisbude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Cocaine's a hell of a drug!


Frank
you re so qualified!
Old 23rd June 2011
  #127
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Good post.
very
Old 23rd June 2011
  #128
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
It's funny how people feel offended by the OP.
And start to defend their p.o.v. (+ hammering on 20+ other ITB points i.d never made)

Never said software sucks, only mentioned that software piggyback riding harware heroes, still doesn't deliver. Despite all ****ty marketing efforts.

Bit suprised to read all that frustration and people seeking reassurance, making sure that they explain extensively that they made "the right choice" (topic has never been on audio quality of VST's or DAWs in general) heh Then one guys is saying for the price of renting an API i can buy the plugins. That's the same as saying, for the price of renting a Ferrari,i can buy a year round busspass.....

Should have known this discussion wouldn't work as 99% of the guys responding here just lack the experience to deliver an informed contribution around the OP.
I think perhaps you are the person looking for reassurances...seeing as you started the thread and all
Old 23rd June 2011
  #129
Gear maniac
 
zwatrif's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Dunno, there's nothing I like more than sharing a tune I've done and not a single person asking me what processing was used, much less if it was outboard or plugins. They just like the tune, I watch them enjoy it and smile.

Job done.
Ditto!
Old 23rd June 2011
  #130
Gear maniac
 

bump
Old 23rd June 2011
  #131
Lives for gear
 

plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
It's funny how people feel offended by the OP.
And start to defend their p.o.v. (+ hammering on 20+ other ITB points i.d never made)

Never said software sucks, only mentioned that software piggyback riding harware heroes, still doesn't deliver. Despite all ****ty marketing efforts.

Bit suprised to read all that frustration and people seeking reassurance, making sure that they explain extensively that they made "the right choice" (topic has never been on audio quality of VST's or DAWs in general) heh Then one guys is saying for the price of renting an API i can buy the plugins. That's the same as saying, for the price of renting a Ferrari,i can buy a year round busspass.....

Should have known this discussion wouldn't work as 99% of the guys responding here just lack the experience to deliver an informed contribution around the OP.
Hey SCDBM

I still run a all analog studio, still use tape, SSL's etc..The Music Palace . You have to understand alot of people on these threads don't have 35 years expercience and don't have the sonic envioment to hear the nuances.

That being said , I decided 10 years ago , to just continue doing what "I" Love, which is offering high quality analog audio in a great monitoring envioment! And yes there is sooo much competition with smaller protools studios in small spaced stealing my clients, BUT not for too long, they come back saying... I DON'T WANT TO MAKE MY RECORD IN A COMPUTER Anymore....

Its really important to be different... BUT also be great! and bottom line... give clients a great sound!

I have a full digital setup, plugins etc...its cool if you want that cool sound....

One thing I can say for sure is great audio products take many years to prove themselves... I remember when the SSL J 9000 came out, everybody jumped on it.. now its hard to give them away... It does take a long time for the general engineering public to fully understand sound!

Its all good, for now we have just a bit harsh, 2D sounding records that maybe you listen to for a few plays and then toss it into the closet..

Lets never forget also Production flexibility will generally outweigh sonic integrity....So before all you guys bash me I get it..

I just happen to be into the "audio arts" and sound that I think will give the listener a better connection with the artist...

I love katy perry records,britney, pink, etc.. but not in my car stereo or home stereo, just on my labtop or computer speakers.....

Who bought ford motors at $1.50? I did and now sold at $15.00....who is going to buy **** when the market looks grim.........ME I got paid..

I don't think ANYBODY here was around when my friend found pultecs in dumpsters.... Yeah dumpsters....

Why do they sell for $5000.00 dollars? Why do 47's sell for $12,000? Plugin people? LOL... Cause there are YOUNG people that get it!

My best friend is a wall street analist, his job is to see slow moving trends in businesses.... today we have several manufactures still making analog consoles... why cause there is a market! There are some fantastic audio gear buys out there today, whereby you can double your money in a few years...

By the way computer music is here to stay forever, and few will dare to challenge it.....

I love being very different, but good.. and I see many local bands coming to me listening to old black sabbath records HATING SOUND REPLACING..
To be honest I never thought this would be.. I can't tell you how many bands I did this year NO sound replacing.. Loving it to death.....

Go get your steve slate drums and make some really stale sounding records... perfect your mix until the feel is gone, produce your self so your music is 1 dementional..But I dare you to say you are making better quality records then 30 years ago......and I am not talking about katy perry records, they are musical/production masterpieces Peace
Old 23rd June 2011
  #132
Lives for gear
 
The dman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
None of the plugs sound like the hardware they're emulating, none of the tape sims sound like tape, none of the console emulations sound like consoles. Big deal. I'd like to think that this is no longer news. It's all just a palette of colors to use as you see fit. It's a new world, with new sounds and new ideas. Nice to refer to the past as a touchstone, but the ship is sailing so you better hop on.

I have my favorite plugin eqs and compressors and I don't think in terms of what they're supposed to be imitating. I've used them enough to where I understand each one's unique identity and have a sense of how a particular one might be the right tool in a given situation, and reach for it accordingly.

Tracks can fall together in different ways now, to very good effect.

-R
Bingo. I laugh when I see the " game changing" threads and see some people that really think a tape plugin or desk emulation is going to be like having the real thing but that's not to say these plugins are not useful and don't sound really good on the right source. Use them for there strengths and ignore the hoopla
Old 25th June 2011
  #133
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
So I guess with digital sounding so bad you could easily pick out a mix that was done ITB any time you hear it right?
Yes I can most of the times. Mostly in rock, pop, electronic and urban music. This is where it is the most obvious because everyone push it to the limit and it's harsh.

Folk and jazz and other gentle music might pass better on digital because there's less transients and peaks. Transients gets "rounded" in analog if i can say so, like all the stages and transformers, etc.. it all sweeten the sound.

When you mix on an analog board there's also more separation between instruments, more depth.
Old 25th June 2011
  #134
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwatrif View Post
Yawn.....zzzzzzzzzzz
I'm sorry. You'll see the light someday.
Old 25th June 2011
  #135
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
Hey SCDBM

I still run a all analog studio, still use tape, SSL's etc..The Music Palace . You have to understand alot of people on these threads don't have 35 years expercience and don't have the sonic envioment to hear the nuances.

That being said , I decided 10 years ago , to just continue doing what "I" Love, which is offering high quality analog audio in a great monitoring envioment! And yes there is sooo much competition with smaller protools studios in small spaced stealing my clients, BUT not for too long, they come back saying... I DON'T WANT TO MAKE MY RECORD IN A COMPUTER Anymore....

Its really important to be different... BUT also be great! and bottom line... give clients a great sound!

I have a full digital setup, plugins etc...its cool if you want that cool sound....

One thing I can say for sure is great audio products take many years to prove themselves... I remember when the SSL J 9000 came out, everybody jumped on it.. now its hard to give them away... It does take a long time for the general engineering public to fully understand sound!

Its all good, for now we have just a bit harsh, 2D sounding records that maybe you listen to for a few plays and then toss it into the closet..

Lets never forget also Production flexibility will generally outweigh sonic integrity....So before all you guys bash me I get it..

I just happen to be into the "audio arts" and sound that I think will give the listener a better connection with the artist...

I love katy perry records,britney, pink, etc.. but not in my car stereo or home stereo, just on my labtop or computer speakers.....

Who bought ford motors at $1.50? I did and now sold at $15.00....who is going to buy **** when the market looks grim.........ME I got paid..

I don't think ANYBODY here was around when my friend found pultecs in dumpsters.... Yeah dumpsters....

Why do they sell for $5000.00 dollars? Why do 47's sell for $12,000? Plugin people? LOL... Cause there are YOUNG people that get it!

My best friend is a wall street analist, his job is to see slow moving trends in businesses.... today we have several manufactures still making analog consoles... why cause there is a market! There are some fantastic audio gear buys out there today, whereby you can double your money in a few years...

By the way computer music is here to stay forever, and few will dare to challenge it.....

I love being very different, but good.. and I see many local bands coming to me listening to old black sabbath records HATING SOUND REPLACING..
To be honest I never thought this would be.. I can't tell you how many bands I did this year NO sound replacing.. Loving it to death.....

Go get your steve slate drums and make some really stale sounding records... perfect your mix until the feel is gone, produce your self so your music is 1 dementional..But I dare you to say you are making better quality records then 30 years ago......and I am not talking about katy perry records, they are musical/production masterpieces Peace
This guy tells the truth.
Old 26th June 2011
  #136
restpause
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
I love katy perry records,britney, pink, etc..
Things that make you go "hmmmmm..."
Old 11th February 2012
  #137
Lives for gear
 

BIG UP!
Old 13th February 2012
  #138
restpause
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steab View Post
And you clearly never had the opportunity to really work with good emulation plugins or your narrow brain persuaded itself to believe what you wanted to be true.

Enjoy your ignorance skillfully framed in your virtual reality bias!
2nd post sums it up nicely. heh 2nd post = end of thread
Old 13th February 2012
  #139
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Let's not forget the mic is hardware as well, or you can use the shi**y USB snow ball. lol
Old 29th February 2012
  #140
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCDBM View Post
Meticiously engineered, perfect emulation, most sought after hardware, sounds like outboard. Today after 15 years of VST(i) dissapointments i can confidently say: Plugins are still not there yet. And i doubt seriously if they will ever be.

Does that mean plugins are bad? NO definately not, they are good in certain things, however succesfully emulating hardware isn't one of them.

And everybody who tells differently has clearly never had the opprotunity to work with some high quality outboard.

There are many threads explaining pro's and cons in depth, just wanted to share above p.o.v.

Enjoy!


This is the total truth. I've worked with the best plugs/ emulations with great monitoring and I've just started buying real quality outboard ( 1176, distressors etc)... Digital emulations are simply not there ... Anyone who argues this point is, er, not hearing things with my ears


Will digital, non-linear saturation simulations ever be able to fool us? Maybe, but since the old kit is still available I don't care. I am totally without doubt.

Oooh, I can't stop now I've got going. I've just done a track for a major Beer commercial, in the style of Funk Bros/ memphis soul... I have achieved a much closer vintage sound using distressors/1176/valve mic than I ever did using the plugs. And I know this becasue I've spent a year doing a nu soul retro album the hard way... Never again...


People who wan't audio easy and cheap will justify they're choices. We will see this kind of rationale flow in on this thread.

Peace and long live analogue distortion
Old 29th February 2012
  #141
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
Same old tired a$$ thing again?

Even hardware doesn't emulate original hardware very well...come on.

What is a new fender champ compared to an older model from the 70's?

How many hardware Neve clones are out there that admittedly are only emulations or approximations based on the original topology and/or design? Can anyone say "GAP Pre 73"? And does it sound so close to the preamp section of a Neve 1073? Not so much. And who cares really? It's a useful pre. Dig it or not, nobody really gives a ****e about some id10t's un-productive useless opinion.

Most hardware you buy today is advertised as being "based on" or "inspired by" the original design or architecture of antiquated gear...from microphones to preamp's, signal processor's, dynamics, EQ, etc.

Gimme a phreakin' break. The OP is...well...you all get my point. Kinda pissin' up the wrong tree IMHO.

Hardware...Software...what difference does it make any more until you start spending serious cash $$$$ on high-end gear? After being a consumer of UAD products and cards, I found there are some fantastic free plugs that are just as rich in effect and sound as costly UAD kits.

As Britdick so eloquently put it, "Blah blah blah blah blah..."
...And this is the actual thing going on here. People who can't afford authentic sounding gear bashing someone who realised that plugs don't sound authentic. So, MB said a plug is as good. He hasn't sold his hardware has he?

People who can only afford fords don't say ferraris are ****. Why? Because they aren't trying to justify their hobbies/careers validity...
Old 29th February 2012
  #142
Gear Nut
 
ivoonline's Avatar
 

One time a salesman tried to sell his most expensive AD converter, and after converting some audio indeed there was a subtle more presence in the converted files. So i took my best EQ and corrected the files that "where not so good converted" and matched them. I've just saved myself a couple of thousands i said.. What i want to say is you can correct ITB material if it lacks some presence or low frequencies in regard to the hardware equivalent.
Old 29th February 2012
  #143
Lives for gear
 
lordward's Avatar
Wow, what a weird thread.

Who cares if plugins sound as good/close too/better or worse than the real thing. Can you make good records with the tools at hand and do people want to hear them is what really matters. What gear you use, virtual or tangible, does not matter at all.

Sure, I'd rather record and mix at Abbey Road with (insert big producer/technician name here) but I can't. But I can still make good records. The end.
Old 29th February 2012
  #144
Lives for gear
 

At the point someone can validly argue their Kia is more fun to drive, nimbler, more reliable and more fuel efficient than a roughly-similarly equipped Mercedes, of course all the Mercedes owners will start dissing the Kia, since it costs a fraction to own and destroys the snob appeal of owning the Mercedes.
Old 29th February 2012
  #145
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
At the point someone can validly argue their Kia is more fun to drive, nimbler, more reliable and more fuel efficient than a roughly-similarly equipped Mercedes, of course all the Mercedes owners will start dissing the Kia, since it costs a fraction to own and destroys the snob appeal of owning the Mercedes.
I like your point! Digital audio is nimbler, more reliable and more efficient than analogue. Agreed, and if we never needed to distort sounds it would be case closed. Indeed in some style of production where clean is king, digital rules massively. However for recreating historic non-linear saturation, ITB is not as nice to listen too.

Perhaps it's being a guitarist for 25 yrs (yikes) that has trained my ear to know what good and bad distortion sounds like. I know exactly when I'm hearing pleasant harmonics and when I'm hearing crunched artefacts from a plugin that's folded-down audio above it's nyquist.

I love the fact that some people don't get that. Weeds out some of the competition in our industry
Old 29th February 2012
  #146
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordward View Post
Wow, what a weird thread.
I know... People debating what sounds good? Here on Gearslutz???

Weird!!!!

Old 29th February 2012
  #147
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
The view must be pretty good from way up there on that high horse.
Old 1st March 2012
  #148
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
The view must be pretty good from way up there on that high horse.
Yeah, sod it. Let's ask Jules to rename this place Computerslutz...
Old 1st March 2012
  #149
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketster View Post
Yeah, sod it. Let's ask Jules to rename this place Computerslutz...
Or conversely Stuck-in-the-past-confirmation-biasslutz.
Old 1st March 2012
  #150
Lives for gear
 
Ward Pike's Avatar
Point and counter-point, opinions and dissension are part of debate and conversation.

Respecting the opinions of others is important else you'll shut down debate and then we'll never make ANY progress. Please don't use so much hate and vitriol in obviously defensive replies. It makes it hard to read... Harry Truman once said "If you can't convince them, confuse them." I always disliked that approach.


I do use plugz, but prefer the real hardware. Does this make me a luddite?

I agree with OP that plugz do not sound like the real thing nor do I ever think they will exactly copy it but they're pretty darned close and very useful. The nice thing about plugz is that you aren't using miles of cabling to connect everything together in a mix and introducing more and more noise into your mix.

So with the real thing you get more warmth and noise. It's a trade-off.

One thing I am noticing though... most of the developments in analog technology are happening to complement the digital mainframe. Some could argue this is slowing the development of audio technology in general.

Counter point?
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Analogue Mastering / The Moan Zone
288
jamie v / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
21

Forum Jump
Forum Jump