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The "dumbing down" of today music.... (anti RAP moan)
Old 10th February 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
RecTeach's Avatar
 

The "dumbing down" of today music....

I have hit tilt with this universal rap music explosion. These guys are being looked at as "musicians" when most couldn't even play a C major chord yet we are constantly rewarding these idiots with award after award for "talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.

As an experiment I listed for 25 mintues on my way home from work two days this week to one of the local rap formated stations. Every, and I mean every song I heard literally had a 2 or 4 bar "melodic" loop and lame 2 bar beat for the ENTIRE song. I am really not kidding!!

I would be willing to bet that anyone reading this right now could go to their computers and make 10 rap "songs" in about 30 mintues.

Then the real slap in the face is that most of these loops these guys are using are off of sample cd's so they can't even take credit for that either.

Having two children under the age of 5 I have seen how what type of music a baby hears can effect their mental growth. Think about this; you have baby A who is exposed to classical and jazz and compare them with baby B who is only exposed to rap music with the same boring 2 bar loop over and over and over again.

The brain reacts to changes in tempo, timbre and dynamics and this in turn aids in the development of growth (mentally).

Sorry for the soap box ramp but after the Grammy's I have hit tlit on this mess...
Old 10th February 2006
  #2
Bro... this is what the Moan Zone is for.
Old 10th February 2006
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach

Having two children under the age of 5 I have seen how what type of music a baby hears can effect their mental growth. Think about this; you have baby A who is exposed to classical and jazz and compare them with baby B who is only exposed to rap music with the same boring 2 bar loop over and over and over again.

The brain reacts to changes in tempo, timbre and dynamics and this in turn aids in the development of growth (mentally).
Really? What happened to the Wiggles?
Old 10th February 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
AdamJay's Avatar
 

let it out bro, i agree with alot of what you are saying.


just try putting it in the correct forum next time
Old 10th February 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 
norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I have hit tilt with this universal rap music explosion. These guys are being looked at as "musicians" when most couldn't even play a C major chord yet we are constantly rewarding these idiots with award after award for "talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.
Well this is happening/ has happened with almost every other genre of radio music...
Old 10th February 2006
  #6
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
I will agree with Thrill that this probably belongs in Moan,

But....I will say this (at least for me)---focus on the solutions and the positives.

Making music I believe in has brought me peace. I wont dwell on the problems that may be in the world.

It doesn't take much watching the news or listening to the radio to end up feeling like you like in a world of sh*t. That is a slippery slope, my friend; and one you don't have to follow on the downward spiral.

I'll also add that, like anything, there is a lot of rap (pop, rock, jazz, classical, country, etc.) that sux, and a lot that is good. You can choose what elements make up your world.
Old 10th February 2006
  #7
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I have hit tilt with this universal rap music explosion. These guys are being looked at as "musicians" when most couldn't even play a C major chord yet we are constantly rewarding these idiots with award after award for "talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.

As an experiment I listed for 25 mintues on my way home from work two days this week to one of the local rap formated stations. Every, and I mean every song I heard literally had a 2 or 4 bar "melodic" loop and lame 2 bar beat for the ENTIRE song. I am really not kidding!!

I would be willing to bet that anyone reading this right now could go to their computers and make 10 rap "songs" in about 30 mintues.

Then the real slap in the face is that most of these loops these guys are using are off of sample cd's so they can't even take credit for that either.

Having two children under the age of 5 I have seen how what type of music a baby hears can effect their mental growth. Think about this; you have baby A who is exposed to classical and jazz and compare them with baby B who is only exposed to rap music with the same boring 2 bar loop over and over and over again.

The brain reacts to changes in tempo, timbre and dynamics and this in turn aids in the development of growth (mentally).

Sorry for the soap box ramp but after the Grammy's I have hit tlit on this mess...
Unfortunately, this is nothing THAT new.
Old 10th February 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
pounce's Avatar
 

it would be funny if it weren't true

i'm considering writing some "music" of that sort more or less to see if i can license it and laugh all the way to the bank. i feel the same way about it as the original poster to be sure, but i have the gear to do it here at the house. and clearly it wouldn't take much time
Old 10th February 2006
  #9
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce
it would be funny if it weren't true

i'm considering writing some "music" of that sort more or less to see if i can license it and laugh all the way to the bank. i feel the same way about it as the original poster to be sure, but i have the gear to do it here at the house. and clearly it wouldn't take much time
You, and everyone else in the world.

Fix it in the marketing.
Old 10th February 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I would be willing to bet that anyone reading this right now could go to their computers and make 10 rap "songs" in about 30 mintues.

..
What a great opportunity this is for you.

These guys make a lot of money. Go ahead and grab a piece of it.

-R
Old 10th February 2006
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
HeatWAVS's Avatar
 

I'm sorry and before I say this may I note that I love everyone but geeeezzzzzz....

How do you know who can and can't play chords... If it wasn't rap that people complained about it would be whatever music was extremely popular at that time.
If it was electronica people would complain that the simplified synths and drum loops could be performed by a two year old (but of course there would be artists that broke barriers and moved the genre forward), if and when it was rock it was the devils music and was causing our youth to do drugs and involve themselves in promiscuous activities (but of course there were artists that broke barriers and moved the genre forward), So now its rap and hiphop (but of course there are artists that will break barriers and move the genre forward) I think you get the drift here.
Old 10th February 2006
  #12
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pounce's Avatar
 

as much as i love good electronic music, i couldn't disagree with someone who would say that a lot of it is lazy loops that are easily programmed. it's true.

the problem with popular music like current hip hop is that the music includes objectionable lyrical content on top of those same questionable musical loops. a loser on both fronts for anyone who likes music. it's funny how many different styles of music i appreciate now for their musicality. and how many electronic styles put me off (ironic with me being an muso with a midi heavy setup, but that is precisely what makes me uber-critical of all music produced with the synth/electronic kit)
Old 10th February 2006
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
HeatWAVS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
Sorry for the soap box ramp but after the Grammy's I have hit tlit on this mess...
Have you heard any of the hip hop albums that were up for a grammy this year... Kanye West, Common, Eminem I think if you listened to these albums you would know that none of the subject matter you are referring to is prevalent in these artists works... now TI, Ludacris, and 50 cent are different but none of those artists performed at the grammies so why did it annoy you so much did you just not like hearing their names?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
"talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.
In the dictionary of your mind:

Hip-Hop - "talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.

I would imagine if this is how you portray hip-hop that could be a big reason why you don't get it, or it could possibly be that you just haven't been introduced to the right artist that would change your mind. If you would like to know just ask I have a list of many who don't "sell drugs" or "shoot up other gangs" that you might actually like.

once again peace love peace love
Old 10th February 2006
  #14
Smile

This argument is REALLY original and REALLY interesting

"no man, i'm telling you - i like ch&cks with d*cks"
"no, dude, like i'm totally right, here - it's like hermaphrodites all the way"
"but like dude, like what's the difference?"
"well like dude, i have a graduate degree in hermaphrodites, and blah, blah, fr8gg8n blah......"
Old 10th February 2006
  #15
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatWAVS
I'm sorry and before I say this may I note that I love everyone but geeeezzzzzz....

How do you know who can and can't play chords... If it wasn't rap that people complained about it would be whatever music was extremely popular at that time.
If it was electronica people would complain that the simplified synths and drum loops could be performed by a two year old (but of course there would be artists that broke barriers and moved the genre forward), if and when it was rock it was the devils music and was causing our youth to do drugs and involve themselves in promiscuous activities (but of course there were artists that broke barriers and moved the genre forward), So now its rap and hiphop (but of course there are artists that will break barriers and move the genre forward) I think you get the drift here.
Consider this. Rap has been around for 25 years. How far has it really come? How much has it changed?

Now compare the rock or R&B of 1954 to 1979. How much growth had there been? How many radically different permutations had there been?

Kayne West doesn't sound like Run DMC, but it is not fundamentally different. Compare that to the difference between Chuck Berry and Pink Floyd. Or between doo wop and P-Funk.
Old 10th February 2006
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
HeatWAVS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb
Consider this. Rap has been around for 25 years. How far has it really come? How much has it changed?

Now compare the rock or R&B of 1954 to 1979. How much growth had there been? How many radically different permutations had there been?

Kayne West doesn't sound like Run DMC, but it is not fundamentally different. Compare that to the difference between Chuck Berry and Pink Floyd. Or between doo wop and P-Funk.
blah blah blah... like sqye said this argument is pointless and ultimately will only make me angry, I mean there is no changing it (for the time being anyway) hiphop has been around for 25 years and for the last 15 it has been the most popular form of music in America. So hate it or love it people are bound to have opinions because its everywhere.

with that being said PRobb I love you and everyone else on this site this will be the last time I post in this thread (so I can keep my sanity)
Old 10th February 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
Having two children under the age of 5 I have seen how what type of music a baby hears can effect their mental growth. Think about this; you have baby A who is exposed to classical and jazz and compare them with baby B who is only exposed to rap music with the same boring 2 bar loop over and over and over again.

The brain reacts to changes in tempo, timbre and dynamics and this in turn aids in the development of growth (mentally).
The prof. who did the actual study for all the 'Baby Mozart' crap that started this theory has stated for the record:

A. Mental acuity benefits (from exposure to classical music) are of a very limited, temporary nature, lasting only a few minutes or hours, at most.

B. The actual lab test was performed on a selection of college students -NOT- infants or toddlers so there is no actual data to either prove or disprove the benefits (relative to exposing babies to classical music).

I have no additional comments.
Old 10th February 2006
  #18
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I have hit tilt with this universal rap music explosion. These guys are being looked at as "musicians" when most couldn't even play a C major chord yet we are constantly rewarding these idiots with award after award for "talking/yelling" (not singing) about how hard 'street life' is, slapping women around, selling drugs and shooting up the other gangs.



You are absolutely wrong about this. The producers who are making a lot of noise, like Scott Storch, Manny Fresh, Pharrell...these guys can play. Storch could run circles around a lot of pro keyboard players. But hip hop doesn't really call for fancy arrangements and the like. Storch has said himself that his arrangements used to be too complicated, so he simplified them and got quite a few hits under his belt.

Lyrically, there is a LOT more out there than the street life stuff. Sure, thats a big part of it because thats where hip hop comes from, but there are also a lot of artists out there who don't glorify violence or drugs. Check out Common, Talib Kweli, Kanye West, etc. The list goes on and on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
As an experiment I listed for 25 mintues on my way home from work two days this week to one of the local rap formated stations. Every, and I mean every song I heard literally had a 2 or 4 bar "melodic" loop and lame 2 bar beat for the ENTIRE song. I am really not kidding!!

the radio is hardly a place to judge the quality of an entire genre of music.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I would be willing to bet that anyone reading this right now could go to their computers and make 10 rap "songs" in about 30 mintues.


i imagine if they could, they probably would. these guys make more on one record than most here make in a year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
Then the real slap in the face is that most of these loops these guys are using are off of sample cd's so they can't even take credit for that either.

please, name one. This is completely false.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
Having two children under the age of 5 I have seen how what type of music a baby hears can effect their mental growth. Think about this; you have baby A who is exposed to classical and jazz and compare them with baby B who is only exposed to rap music with the same boring 2 bar loop over and over and over again.


The brain reacts to changes in tempo, timbre and dynamics and this in turn aids in the development of growth (mentally).

well, whats the result then? Baby B grows up to be a gangster and rapist while baby A grows up to love everyone and invent a cure for cancer?



Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach

Sorry for the soap box ramp but after the Grammy's I have hit tlit on this mess...


Why after the Grammys? The big awards all went to rock acts.

I'm sick of this ignorant point of view. Don't bash it because you don't understand it. If you don't like it, cool, thats your opinion. But there's no need to make it look like a lesser form of entertainment than jazz or any other kind of music. Its just DIFFERENT.

It doesn't help that you use the same old tired argument...

they aren't real musicians, all they talk about is gangs and drugs, etc...its and ignorant and false viewpoint perpetuated by people who have no idea about the culture or hip hop in general.

So there's my rant!!
Old 10th February 2006
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecTeach
I listed for 25 mintues on my way home from work two days this week to one of the local rap formated stations

well that right there is your problem. those stations play nothing but complete mainstream hiphop garbage. even i hate those stations and i love hiphop...good hiphop that is. i also listen to way too much king crimson, talking heads and esquivel so obviously my recommendation on music should be best kept to myself but anyway if yr looking for good hiphop/rap do not look for it on the radio. you wont find it there for atleast another 3 or 4 years, maybe 8.
Old 10th February 2006
  #20
Conceptual art bro. Get used to it... it's 2006. Duchamp signed a urinal in like 1920 and it's still considered to be the most important piece of modern art ever created. There's plenty of time/ music/ art in this world, whether it's "laughy taffy" or third stream classical. If you want to hold a pair of headphones playing classical music on your wife's belly while she's pregnant to increase your child's IQ then you go. But don't think you're smart enough to make decisions for everybody else. Just turn the station off.
Old 11th February 2006
  #21
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dougb415's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatWAVS
I'm sorry and before I say this may I note that I love everyone but geeeezzzzzz....

How do you know who can and can't play chords...
- by going into music stores with keyboard depts and watch these guys playing the same 4-5 note riff over and over LITERALLY for a half hour at minimum

- by talking to keyboardists that get hired and then laugh later on that all they had to do was pull some violin samples out and hit a minor root chord followed by a 5th over and over

- by being in the studio and watching these guys PLUNK PLUNK PLUNKing on a synth without actually playing anything.... except for *maybe* those 2 chords that they learned from the keyboardist...
Old 11th February 2006
  #22
no ssl yet
Guest
Always amusing

Every few months this thread pops up. From someone who has no idea what others see in rap. Who has been a victim of some of the poorest rap music ever (radio)

Who compares the guys making hit records to the guys who cant play chords in guitar center.

I suggest you mosey on over to the guitar room next time u are in GC and tell me if you find guitar virtuosos there.


It's like saying I hate chicken, I had the chicken in Sam's club and hated it (when actually its pretty good to some)


But it's freakin SAM's club.

Ok here we go rap isnt music only the music that you like is and ONLY YOU are fit to determine what is and isnt music.

some elitist bull****. Just like America's the best nation, and the bell curve theory.


LOL

Dont like it, then dont listen and dont let your kids listen. YOU ARE A Parent right!

Old 11th February 2006
  #23
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougb415
- by going into music stores with keyboard depts and watch these guys playing the same 4-5 note riff over and over LITERALLY for a half hour at minimum

- by talking to keyboardists that get hired and then laugh later on that all they had to do was pull some violin samples out and hit a minor root chord followed by a 5th over and over

- by being in the studio and watching these guys PLUNK PLUNK PLUNKing on a synth without actually playing anything.... except for *maybe* those 2 chords that they learned from the keyboardist...

Who exactly are "THESE" guys you discuss?
Old 11th February 2006
  #24
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dougb415's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
Who exactly are "THESE" guys you discuss?
Please refer to Post #1.
Old 11th February 2006
  #25
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougb415
- by going into music stores with keyboard depts and watch these guys playing the same 4-5 note riff over and over LITERALLY for a half hour at minimum

- by talking to keyboardists that get hired and then laugh later on that all they had to do was pull some violin samples out and hit a minor root chord followed by a 5th over and over

- by being in the studio and watching these guys PLUNK PLUNK PLUNKing on a synth without actually playing anything.... except for *maybe* those 2 chords that they learned from the keyboardist...

So "THESE"

are the same guys?
Would you be so nice as to post some of your "works of art" since you obviously have more talent than any of "these" rap guys that you stereotypically lump into one group
Old 12th February 2006
  #26
Gear Addict
 
Tantrum The Cat's Avatar
 

Standard-issue RAP SUX thread, folks. Nothing more to see here, move along.

But to the original poster: if rap music is so objectionable, riddle me this. What about the thousands (if not millions) of kids who grow up listening to this music and don't pick up a gun, sell drugs, and/or abuse their girlfriends?

This is just the same "that's not music, that's noise" argument that's been repeated ever since Ug started knocking his rocks together instead of beating them with a stick the way Grog had taught him at the conservatory.
Old 12th February 2006
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
guid0's Avatar
 

In any musical genre, you have good stuff and you have crap. Most of the time, it's the crap that gets the most exposure because of the well known cultural trend of dumbing down everything so that even protocellular beings with no visible means of support can understand the "low low prices" cultural cesspool we all live in.

Heck, it's a prevalent trend in jazz and classical as well as rock and rap.
dfegad (don't get me started on country music!)

Fact is, there is some good stuff out there in all those genres. Rap and hiphop are no exception to this.

Granted, the "thug life" thing has gotten pretty much out of control as the originators of the movement have pretty much shot each other to smithereens and the effect this stuff has on naive teenagers is pretty sad to see. But then again, I think crap like "American idol" and the like are having a terrible influence on these kids as well.

You can't just dump the entire responsibility of all this dumbing down mantra on the shoulders of the rap community.

I'd rather see a bunch of rappers spewing out their frustration than a bunch of jesus freaks auto-censoring themselves and cancelling productions of Arthur Miller's "the crucible" because they are afraid that it might "offend" someone.
Old 12th February 2006
  #28
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

If you think some RAP is unoriginal, check out Chris Cagle's new single, "Wal-Mart Parking Lot." It would be worthy of Al Yankovic if they weren't serious.
Old 12th February 2006
  #29
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Improv's Avatar
 

Every once in a while I've attempted to contribute something to a hip hop track, tapping my training as a musician and an engineer to really "produce" something different. It doesn't work and it's obvious. Even adding what I would call a bassline just dates a hip hop track these days. To make something that actually sounds like it's "now" is an amazingly weird, delicate balance that not many truly understand. It's a genre that is more fickle than a 13-yr old girl picking an outfit and if you don't sound like "the streets" right now, you don't sound right. Being in a position to define the current sound is even more rare.

But basically, it doesn't follow traditional rules of "what's good", so if you don't understand it, just don't worry about it. They'll do their thing and you do your thing. You going for the rap demographic or what?
Old 13th February 2006
  #30
no ssl yet
Guest
I'm gonna be honest

Guys the sentiment that rap is not music and "these" guys cant play chords is an old theme that's getting tiring. Honestly I often wonder if this would be a concern if it werent a primarily black music that sells to a primarily white audience.

Never see many rappers starting threads that say "guys this rock stuff is boring as crap"

It's partially because we dont have the elitist complex that says we are the only folks who can determine what music is. Much like not many rappers would determine another man a fraction of a man because of his skin color.

Just what is it that "these" guys have actually done to have you so concerned with them and their music?
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