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Apple Sucks Plugin Bundles
Old 18th December 2010
  #1
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soupking's Avatar
 

Apple Sucks

I can't believe I'm saying this but...They do.

Any company that requires you to pay $2500+ for two firewire connections is seriously lacking in any kind of fundamental or practical R & D of their products.

The fact that Apple still acts like some hardware vanguard and expects you to pay top dollar for a machine that is not necessarily faster and lacks connectivity for creative purposes that they brag as being their strong suit is just plain stupid.

Now I'm going to go spend my afternoon looking for a Firewire 400 to 800 adapter because none of Apple's base computers have a 400 firewire connection. Bummer, because Apogee, the audio industry's leader in conversion uses one. If I can't find one, I get to wait another week for Amazon to ship me one. Yay...

...with Apple you would expect turnkey. They just don't get it.

I haven't even brought up the issue of using an external drive which also isn't possible if you want to record audio....somehow.

Don't even get me started on Logic. They're getting better in every version (I guess), but every time I open that application I spend hours of head scratching and posting forum questions instead of, like you know, recording music.

Apple really kind of sucks these days.
Old 18th December 2010
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
Any company that requires you to pay $2500+ for two firewire connections is seriously lacking in any kind of fundamental or practical R & D of their products.
Show me any other off the shelf computer that even comes with Firewire...
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
The fact that Apple still acts like some hardware vanguard and expects you to pay top dollar for a machine that is not necessarily faster and lacks connectivity for creative purposes that they brag as being their strong suit is just plain stupid.
Then just spend $500 on an EMachines PC and feel like a genius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
...with Apple you would expect turnkey. They just don't get it.
Apple is turnkey, but it's not their fault if someone is having trouble turning it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
I haven't even brought up the issue of using an external drive which also isn't possible if you want to record audio....
No problems here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
Don't even get me started on Logic... every time I open that application I spend hours of head scratching and posting forum questions instead of, like you know, recording music.
No problems here.

You know if you think Apple sucks, that's fine, it's your opinion. You should go and use whatever works for you best if you think there's a better option. Meanwhile millions of professional will continue to use Macs + Logic, including myself. Good luck! thumbsup
Old 18th December 2010
  #3
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

Every iMac, MacMini, Macbook and even MacPro all have 1-single FW buss.... sure, the MacPro gives you more physical connections... but it's all running on the same FW Buss.... nearly every computer is made like this. You should be able to find a FW800 - FW400 adapter virtually anywhere... I wouldn't be surprised if Radioshack has 'em in stock.

Why did you all of a sudden need the adapter? You didn't need one yesturday?

FWIW... I use a MacPro... with no extra PCIe FW buss card installed and I'm constantly using a FW interface and external FW drive simultaniously. I'm sure I would get better performance if I had a dedicated FW buss for the interface.., and I'll probably get one soon enough.... if you only have a single FW port and you don't want to daisy chain get yourself a hub.
Old 18th December 2010
  #4
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The most-best hyped off the shelf computer with the most believeable compromised followers ever.Their marketing is just perfekt.And i applaud them for what they are.
Old 18th December 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
Show me any other off the shelf computer that even comes with Firewire...
Then just spend $500 on an EMachines PC and feel like a genius.
Apple is turnkey, but it's not their fault if someone is having trouble turning it.

No problems here.
No problems here.

You know if you think Apple sucks, that's fine, it's your opinion. You should go and use whatever works for you best if you think there's a better option.
That's right. It is my opinion, and that's why I'm posting this is the moan zone. I'm glad your set-up works for you. I'm guessing you have a tower.

If there's something I'm missing that keeps me from using a converter and an external hard-drive using FW connections at the same time, I'm all ears.

I'm just glad I own an older MacBook Pro because the newer ones just leave me with less options.

Quote:
Every iMac, MacMini, Macbook and even MacPro all have 1-single FW buss.... sure, the MacPro gives you more physical connections... but it's all running on the same FW Buss.... nearly every computer is made like this. You should be able to find a FW800 - FW400 adapter virtually anywhere... I wouldn't be surprised if Radioshack has 'em in stock.

Why did you all of a sudden need the adapter? You didn't need one yesturday?

FWIW... I use a MacPro... with no extra PCIe FW buss card installed and I'm constantly using a FW interface and external FW drive simultaniously. I'm sure I would get better performance if I had a dedicated FW buss for the interface.., and I'll probably get one soon enough.... if you only have a single FW port and you don't want to daisy chain get yourself a hub.
Yes, I managed to find one. But I'm still having to hopscotch files around which is a great way to copy over something or screw something up. Also, I use my system for animation and design purposes as well. I would really like to be able to have mobility to my external without having to swap and move files all the time for different uses at different times of the day in two different locations.

It's now become an issue because I'm not recording to tape at the moment and I want to use my keyboard as a keyboard and not as a MIDI instrument.


Bottom line, I just want to be able to use a converter and an external hard drive at the same time without having to go all out and buy a tower.

Last edited by soupking; 18th December 2010 at 01:16 AM.. Reason: bottom line...
Old 18th December 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
I'm guessing you have a tower.
Macbook Pro.
Old 18th December 2010
  #7
I do agree that I feel Apple is losing it's way. But hey that's just me.

Soupking - Not sure which laptop you are using. If you have the large Mac book pro, it still has the express port. You can use your interface on your one FW port with a 400 to 800 cable. Then use an express card for the Fw for your HDs. Not ideal but we run a portable this way at my work and it preforms pretty well. On the express card we even run 2 HDs. One audio drive and a 2 TB sample drive. Personally I have good luck with the SIIG cards.

Also what is people's problem with moaning in the moan zone?
Old 18th December 2010
  #8
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How long will Apple remain cool? Remember the dayz of Rollar Skates being cool.

Right now, Apple is approaching their peak Popularity Cycle.

If Windows 7 came out 5 years ago, I think there wouldn't be a reason for users to change to Macs. A computer is only as good as it's OS.

In regards to the OP, apple charges more for the own hardware stuff, no different to other hi-end manufacturers.

I use logic, so I'm locked to a MAC. No biggie. I don't have to worry about viruses ever (provided I don't go opening or downloading malware). AND even then, Mac OS X warns me when I open the file for the first time.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 18th December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
I do agree that I feel Apple is losing it's way. But hey that's just me.

Soupking - Not sure which laptop you are using. If you have the large Mac book pro, it still has the express port. You can use your interface on your one FW port with a 400 to 800 cable. Then use an express card for the Fw for your HDs. Not ideal but we run a portable this way at my work and it preforms pretty well. On the express card we even run 2 HDs. One audio drive and a 2 TB sample drive. Personally I have good luck with the SIIG cards.

Also what is people's problem with moaning in the moan zone?
Heh, dude I was a Mac zealot for years. Ever since I tried installing Snow Leopard and it entirely screwed up my fonts and cache and everything else I went back to Leopard. Some how I'm the only one with this problem?

Anyway, since then I've just run into more and more things to turn me more into a tech and less a user. I'm still committed to APple, it's just I wish they didn't make things so damn hard. For instance, Final Cut Pro is a cinch. I don't know why Logic has to be so sticky. If it weren't for Phas3d in the Music Computers forum I would've quit a long time ago.

I have the MacBook Pro with the two FW ports which is fine. I just want to be able to use a less-expensive home-based option like a MacMini or iMac and they don't provide one with the same options. Even the MacBook Pro doesn't anymore. I just don't understand.

I went and got a FW 400/800 adapter cable to link my Apogee with my MacMini, the inputs are flying out of control. I guess it doesn't like the cable so now I'm going to have to troubleshoot another routing/storage/monitor option where I have to use my MacBook Pro at home because the MacMini just won't play ball.

Thanks for the idea to use an express card as an option. I'll remember that going forward if I eventually have to purchase an upgraded machine.
Old 18th December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
How long will Apple remain cool? Remember the dayz of Rollar Skates being cool.

Right now, Apple is approaching their peak Popularity Cycle.

If Windows 7 came out 5 years ago, I think there wouldn't be a reason for users to change to Macs. A computer is only as good as it's OS.

In regards to the OP, apple charges more for the own hardware stuff, no different to other hi-end manufacturers.

I use logic, so I'm locked to a MAC. No biggie. I don't have to worry about viruses ever (provided I don't go opening or downloading malware). AND even then, Mac OS X warns me when I open the file for the first time.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
I feel you, and again in regards to my previous response. I own a lot of Mac software and I am still a Mac user, but...I wish I could just plug the thing in and go.

In a world where everything is becoming mobile, I can't be by using a MacMini or an iMac with my current set-up because of port options (or lack thereof)

Just not that easy lately. anyway, back to fidgeting with gear.

Peace,
-soupking
Old 18th December 2010
  #11
T1M
Gear Maniac
 

if apple sucks, you swallow.
Old 18th December 2010
  #12
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
Right now, Apple is approaching their peak Popularity Cycle.
You see the future? I've always wished I could -- how do you do it?
Old 18th December 2010
  #13
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soupking's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1M View Post
if apple sucks, you swallow.
Good one, trooper.

If I swallow, you're a spectator.

Der...Nice comment.

Moan and F'n groan.
Old 18th December 2010
  #14
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swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
If there's something I'm missing that keeps me from using a converter and an external hard-drive using FW connections at the same time, I'm all ears.

I'm just glad I own an older MacBook Pro because the newer ones just leave me with less options.
I think MacBook pros may have 2 firewire ports, but they only have one bus.

I'm tracking @ 96k to an external 400 drive chained with 2 firewire interfaces hanging off the single fw port of my 3 year old macbook. I use to dangle 3 interfaces. It worked...but was not recommended.

Firewire is notoriously hinky. Bad cable, dodgy motherboard, etc. can lead to all kinds of performance problems.
Old 18th December 2010
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
I think MacBook pros may have 2 firewire ports, but they only have one bus.
They used to have 400 & 800 ports, but the unibody revisions deleted the 400 port, so only the one now!

I use a SIIG 400 E/34 card with great success. And the OP's issues about using external drives to record audio are not experienced here at all - I even use USB drives with success if I have to (up to 48k).

Anyway, @OP, it's not that Apple doesn't "get it." It's just that they value form over function, and use design to shift products. The lust for the gear is almost NEVER about anything resembling comprehensive functionality.
Old 18th December 2010
  #16
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
I do agree that I feel Apple is losing it's way. But hey that's just me.
Mac Sales are up by 33%...
Macbook Air is going to be a big influence on how other laptops are made in 2011.

Neowin.net - Apple Q2 2010 earnings, Mac sales up 33% and iPhone up 131%
Old 18th December 2010
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
Heh, dude I was a Mac zealot for years. Ever since I tried installing Snow Leopard and it entirely screwed up my fonts and cache and everything else I went back to Leopard. Some how I'm the only one with this problem?

Anyway, since then I've just run into more and more things to turn me more into a tech and less a user. I'm still committed to APple, it's just I wish they didn't make things so damn hard. For instance, Final Cut Pro is a cinch. I don't know why Logic has to be so sticky. If it weren't for Phas3d in the Music Computers forum I would've quit a long time ago.

I have the MacBook Pro with the two FW ports which is fine. I just want to be able to use a less-expensive home-based option like a MacMini or iMac and they don't provide one with the same options. Even the MacBook Pro doesn't anymore. I just don't understand.

I went and got a FW 400/800 adapter cable to link my Apogee with my MacMini, the inputs are flying out of control. I guess it doesn't like the cable so now I'm going to have to troubleshoot another routing/storage/monitor option where I have to use my MacBook Pro at home because the MacMini just won't play ball.

Thanks for the idea to use an express card as an option. I'll remember that going forward if I eventually have to purchase an upgraded machine.
Mac mini isn't really designed as a computer for digital audio - it's meant to be the equivalent of a netbook or home computer.

having 2 FW ports and only one buss isn't really any different to having one port and daisy chaining.
Old 18th December 2010
  #18
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I've recorded and mixed a lot of albums using the MacBook Pro I'm typing this message with. I bought it in the summer of 2007 and still works like a charm. I have an express card with firewire connections hooked up to it, works like a charm. And I record on external drives (Glyphs), with an Apogee Ensemble in Logic. It's a rock solid setup, if you'd ask me. Perhaps it's just not right for you. It sure works for me.
Old 18th December 2010
  #19
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Cool

APPLE IS THE BEST!! NO VIRUSES FOR 20 YEARS..starting with my first IIci!!
Wouldn't buy anything for ANY now but MAC!!. Was using PC's for the internet, but they're not worth that. WINDOWS SUKK!!! I have 4 400-800 cables, from eBAY. No problem. ?heh
Old 18th December 2010
  #20
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPeters86 View Post
I've recorded and mixed a lot of albums using the MacBook Pro I'm typing this message with. I bought it in the summer of 2007 and still works like a charm. I have an express card with firewire connections hooked up to it, works like a charm. And I record on external drives (Glyphs), with an Apogee Ensemble in Logic. It's a rock solid setup, if you'd ask me. Perhaps it's just not right for you. It sure works for me.
Express Card? I need that.
Old 18th December 2010
  #21
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I actually found the solution to my problem. It just came out on the market and is a total blessing to the problem I'm having.

It's called a Sonnet Yin-Yang:
Sonnet - Allegro FW400: FireWire 400 PCI Card; Compatible in Most Mac and Windows Desktop Computers With PCI or PCI-X Slots

Again, I'm having to wait another week and pay $70 more dollars, but it is a bargain considering what the alternative would be. The thing about Apple is they have been restricting flexibility from their computers since they removed the floppy drive from the early iMac.

This forces you to spend more money on accessories and I think it's lame. To be honest, I just want to get stuff done without getting halfway and then have to stop because "oh right, my current Mac doesn't (fill in the blank). I guess I have to order more stuff."

The MacMini might be marketed as a consumer computer, but it still costs over a $1000 and if you upgrade it at all you're really using a pretty strong little machine. Buying an iMac forces you into a display which again I feel is really aggressive in terms of marketing. Additionally, it has the same port capability as a MacMini. So we're back to spending more money.

I know it's a gripe guys, and I'm glad I found a solution out there because this isn't like I'm griping about their mouse (which has always sucked IMHO). Otherwise, I'd have to completely re-construct my entire home set-up with a dual swapping mouse/keyboard/monitor configuration to use a converter and external hard drive all because I don't have 2 FW connections. This would then cost over $400 and be a real f'n headache. It's a reasonable gripe, but I'm REALLY glad there's a solution.
Old 18th December 2010
  #22
I always felt it kind of sucks that they charge about 3x the price of an equal PC, for design and.. stability??
Old 18th December 2010
  #23
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Be like me and build a Hackintosh and say ... fuuck to bill and Steve
Old 18th December 2010
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
Be like me and build a Hackintosh and say ... fuuck to bill and Steve
Windows 7 is quite awesome. Did the switch from Xp to 7 about 2 months ago. Bought a used quad 2.8, 6gig ram. 300$, the same spec for an apple would cost 2000$ in Sweden...
Old 18th December 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
Windows 7 is quite awesome. Did the switch from Xp to 7 about 2 months ago. Bought a used quad 2.8, 6gig ram. 300$, the same spec for an apple would cost 2000$ in Sweden...
Yep thats why I went down the hack route ,cheap pc parts apple os best of both worlds ... Win win lol !!
Old 18th December 2010
  #26
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Cool

STOP IT!!! Enjoy crash central, along with bad updates every 2-3 days to correct something bad every 2-3 minutes!!!! Jus kidding......no I'm NOT. APPLE's the BEST!!!! in the whole wide world!!! and cosmos too. with comets flying by and the black hole watchin APPLE dominate......turning the Hole into an APPLE, hence the BLACK APPLE. I'm done.
Old 18th December 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
Be like me and build a Hackintosh and say ... fuuck to bill and Steve
If I didn't already own over $3000 in Mac-based software, I would heavily consider it. A guy I know who works in 3D is going the "hackintosh" route that now using a SSD array. Says it's insane fast.

It'd really be nice if more software companies gave you that download flexibility as well. But I'm not going into that.

I was thinking about upgrading my MacMini with a SSD card as well, but it doesn't support 64-bit graphics as it's an older model so I figure I'll just wait for prices to drop before getting involved.
Old 18th December 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproduca View Post
STOP IT!!! Enjoy crash central, along with bad updates every 2-3 days to correct something bad every 2-3 minutes!!!! Jus kidding......no I'm NOT. APPLE's the BEST!!!! in the whole wide world!!! and cosmos too. with comets flying by and the black hole watchin APPLE dominate......turning the Hole into an APPLE, hence the BLACK APPLE. I'm done.
Oh ok..... you again !
My hack runs better than most macs !
But then again what do I know ... I use logic
Old 18th December 2010
  #29
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Great Scott, I've created a monster.
Old 18th December 2010
  #30
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gussyg2007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
If I didn't already own over $3000 in Mac-based software, I would heavily consider it..
all mac softs work perfectly on a hack
I am running 10.6.5 retail SL
All my softs run 100%
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