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Paypal question (Prophet 5) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Paypal question (Prophet 5)

OK so this is a Paypal question for thoses of you who are seasoned users of the site.


A guy bought my Prophet 5 from me for 2,700 US dollars on Monday I think.

Anyway It took me three days to get back to him and he freaked out and reported me to Paypal.

I had not even touched the money yet, it was still sitting in my Paypal account.


So here is my question.... Paypal placed a hold on the 2,700 plus shipping, I now have a zero balance, if I refund him the money will it put my Paypal at negative 2,700 dollars?

I do not want to ship the P5 with the money on hold, makes me nervous, so I thought if I refunded him the money, and he resent it, we could carry on in the normal trusting fashion.

Any thoughts?


Thanks.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #2
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Derp's Avatar
The balance just reflects what is actually available to you. If you refund his payment, it won't show a negative balance so long as you go to the details for the original payment and issue the refund from that page. (Do NOT click 'Send Money' at the top of the page and go that way as that will make the scenario you fear come to fruition.)


...PayPal's a bitch these days, isn't it?
Old 2nd April 2010
  #3
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Awsome, thanks Derp.

Refund sent.

And the P5 stays for another day.heh
Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
The balance just reflects what is actually available to you. If you refund his payment, it won't show a negative balance so long as you go to the details for the original payment and issue the refund from that page. (Do NOT click 'Send Money' at the top of the page and go that way as that will make the scenario you fear come to fruition.)


...PayPal's a bitch these days, isn't it?
Old 2nd April 2010
  #4
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

it wouldn't have mattered if he made a stink or not.

paypal would have placed a hold on the funds because you guys purchased through ebay.. the buyer is protected... the funds won't be released to you for a couple of weeks or whenever the buyer receives the package.

i have to say though. if i was the wining bidder I'd be really pissed too. a lot of scams on ebay. so after sending you the money and not hearing from you for 3 days... I'd demand my money back because you were a horrible seller.

buyers and sellers are both wary.. or the smart ones are. communication is the biggest thing to alleviate the worries of both sides. no communication for 3 days after the auction's end is 100% fukt.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #5
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We did not use Ebay.

Only Gearslutz.

Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinearAggression View Post
it wouldn't have mattered if he made a stink or not.

paypal would have placed a hold on the funds because you guys purchased through ebay.. the buyer is protected... the funds won't be released to you for a couple of weeks or whenever the buyer receives the package.

i have to say though. if i was the wining bidder I'd be really pissed too. a lot of scams on ebay. so after sending you the money and not hearing from you for 3 days... I'd demand my money back because you were a horrible seller.

buyers and sellers are both wary.. or the smart ones are. communication is the biggest thing to alleviate the worries of both sides. no communication for 3 days after the auction's end is 100% fukt.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Also I thought that my not being in a hurry to take the money out of Paypal would show that I was not out to screw anyone over.

In hind sight, I suppose that he would not have any way of knowing that.


Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
We did not use Ebay.

Only Gearslutz.

Scott
Old 2nd April 2010
  #7
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

purchasing through paypal without ebay and I'd be even more paranoid about being ripped off.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #8
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinearAggression View Post
purchasing through paypal without ebay and I'd be even more paranoid about being ripped off.
Yup. A three day communication delay once payment has been made on a $2700 item is not acceptable at all. A one day delay is not acceptable even..
Old 2nd April 2010
  #9
Gear Addict
 
analogholic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post

Anyway It took me three days to get back to him and he freaked out and reported me to Paypal.
How many days would you have waited (before freaking out) if you had paid someone 2700 bucks?

Sorry, but these days I totally can relate to the guy.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 

seriously. i prob would have been freaking out in 6 hours
Old 3rd April 2010
  #11
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Derp's Avatar
Generally I wig out when there's a lapse in communication, but I keep the wigging outs to myself. In spite of the role computers play in our day to day lives in this era, there are still a few people that don't use it as a primary source of interaction, so when something comes up like a family emergency, they don't immediately jump on the intertubes and warn all parties who might be affected. It's even happened to me on a transaction here on Gearslutz where it took a couple weeks to hear from the guy just because of circumstances outside of his control. With PayPal set up the way it is these days, the buyer is more than adequately protected (it could even be argued perhaps overprotected) so I don't see the harm in waiting a week before getting really antsy.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #12
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
With PayPal set up the way it is these days, the buyer is more than adequately protected (it could even be argued perhaps overprotected) so I don't see the harm in waiting a week before getting really antsy.
If you have a death in the immediate family, hurricane, tornado, car accident (with coma) maybe, otherwise if you are selling online, you need to communicate online and within an expediant time frame, no excuses.

Have you actually sat down and read the fine print in the Paypal agreements?

Paypal is not a bank, and they make their own rules. If I sell you something and you put a payment through, I can draw those funds out immediately from my paypal account with my paypal atm card, and you'd generally be out of luck if I don't send the item. Yes, they have "buyer protection", but Paypal will refund you only by attempting to retrieve the funds from the bad seller's account, if they are there (and what's the chance of that if someone is purposely ripping you off?). Paypal will never spend a dime of their own money to cover your losses.

That's in the agreement uness their policy has somehow miraculously changed since I last read all that fine print.. Sure, they will close the sellers account, and his/her paypal account would go in a negative balance etc. (whoop de doo) but they are never going to pay you back out of their corporate profits.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #13
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Derp's Avatar
Eh. All I know is that with every claim I've ever made through PayPal, I've always gotten my money back. Even had one instance where the guy I was buying from did not do any communication whatsoever, so I filed a claim, no communication, the case got closed, PayPal decided in my favor, I got the money back immediately, and then a week later, the MicroWave XT I had initially won arrived in the mail even though the seller didn't have my money anymore. heh

And like it or not, communication won't always be as prompt as you want it to be if at all. In all of the eBay transactions I've had, I've probably only ever actually heard from the seller about a quarter of the time. PayPal transactions outside of eBay, probably only about half the time at best. Not everybody puts such a high priority on interweb communications.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #14
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Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Eh. All I know is that with every claim I've ever made through PayPal, I've always gotten my money back. Even had one instance where the guy I was buying from did not do any communication whatsoever, so I filed a claim, no communication, the case got closed, PayPal decided in my favor, I got the money back immediately, and then a week later, the MicroWave XT I had initially won arrived in the mail even though the seller didn't have my money anymore. heh

And like it or not, communication won't always be as prompt as you want it to be if at all. In all of the eBay transactions I've had, I've probably only ever actually heard from the seller about a quarter of the time. PayPal transactions outside of eBay, probably only about half the time at best. Not everybody puts such a high priority on interweb communications.

That really just means that you've dealt with people who weren't trying to necessarily rip you off, and had $ in their PP accounts when the dispute was made and paypal froze the funds. In the case of the guy who didn't respond to the dispute, if the other party doesn't respond to the claim within the required time, PP automatically decides in your favor and refunds your money (if they can retrieve it from the seller's PP account). In that case, since the item arrived later, he obviously didn't check his computer much, and he obviously wasn't trying to scam you..

In any event, you've been lucky and you obviously don't care if sellers don't communicate with you, and I'm guessing you've never been ripped off on a sale. I have, so I make sure and have good communication both as a buyer and seller. It's obviously not a guarantee that everything will go smooth and honest, but it's usually one more indicator that it might..
Old 11th April 2010
  #15
PLEASE, NOT AGAIN SCOTT.

You promised me that if I sent you the money again, this time you'll send the keyboard next day, well here I am a week later waiting for a response from you.

I'm sorry I'm writting you here, but since you don't answer my e mails and personal messages, I have to do this.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW ABOUT THE PROPHET 5 THAT I ALREADY PAID YOU (AGAIN).

What's wrong with you? how many time takes answering an e mail?

Thank you.

delcosmos.
Old 11th April 2010
  #16
Funny.
The guy's been trying to sell it for months.
Old 11th April 2010
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
the MicroWave XT I had initially won arrived in the mail even though the seller didn't have my money anymore. heh
So, did you pay the seller? although a free XT would be cool
Old 11th April 2010
  #18
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post


A guy bought my Prophet 5 from me for 2,700 US dollars on Monday I think.

Anyway It took me three days to get back to him and he freaked out and reported me to Paypal.

I had not even touched the money yet, it was still sitting in my Paypal
I do not want to ship the P5 with the money on hold, makes me nervous, so I thought if I refunded him the money, and he resent it, we could carry on in the normal trusting fashion.

Any thoughts?


Thanks.
Who is buyer? del cosmos
I would send my Jupiter 8 + Prophet 5 + PPG et. etc combined just on his word.
You probably figured out that Prophet 5 might bring more money and you're probably right, but deal is done and there is nothing to complain now.
Old 11th April 2010
  #19
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Heathfinnie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by majdid View Post
So, did you pay the seller? although a free XT would be cool
I hope he paid the seller. If not I think that would be even ****tier than the delay in communication...
Old 11th April 2010
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
Who is buyer? del cosmos
I would send my Jupiter 8 + Prophet 5 + PPG et. etc combined just on his word.
You probably figured out that Prophet 5 might bring more money and you're probably right, but deal is done and there is nothing to complain now.
Thank you GYang, the thing is that after he refunded my money (because of my complain process), He promised me that if I sent him again the money, he would send immediately the keyboard, well that was a week ago and never heard back from him.

I sent him emails and PM's every day and he never answered back.
He did the same for what I started a complain process on paypal, but this time it's not 3 days but a whole week!

Honestly, I'm really worried, I can't deal with someone who doesn't care about this.

Scott if you read this, please answer my e mails. You failed to your word, and it's not cool.

delcosmos.
Old 11th April 2010
  #21
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Rust Creep's Avatar
 

get your money back and stop doing business with an asshat
Old 11th April 2010
  #22
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos View Post
Thank you GYang, the thing is that after he refunded my money (because of my complain process), He promised me that if I sent him again the money, he would send immediately the keyboard, well that was a week ago and never heard back from him.
If this was sale over gearslutz don't forget to add negative feedback seller's point. This should warm other people to avoid this seller in the future.

I hope your money will be refunded.
Old 12th April 2010
  #23
Gear Nut
 

that is unbelievable... so ****ing slack, old mate has a reason to be worried and get a refund, its very poor business.
Old 12th April 2010
  #24
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ppp

Last edited by sctt_stone; 12th April 2010 at 12:39 PM.. Reason: pfft
Old 12th April 2010
  #25
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Looks like Scott's got a faulty keyboard, which is why he's unable to respond emails.
Old 12th April 2010
  #26
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
Yup. A three day communication delay once payment has been made on a $2700 item is not acceptable at all. A one day delay is not acceptable even..
thumbsup
Old 12th April 2010
  #27
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Has anyone even thought to check the rest of the feedback that I have?


WTF?
Old 12th April 2010
  #28
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kilon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Has anyone even thought to check the rest of the feedback that I have?


WTF?
I dont care about the rest of your feeback and I agree , 3 days is way too long for 2700 dollars. If someone was giving me 2700 dollars I would serve him in no time.

Unless of course I experienced a serious problem that did not allow me to act fast.
Old 12th April 2010
  #29
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Has anyone even thought to check the rest of the feedback that I have?


WTF?
Feedback is nice, but if someone is dropping $2k+ in your PayPal account (not once, but twice) and you choose - yes choose, not to stay in contact and/or ship immediately, then the feedback is worthless.

It's simply a matter of acting professionally and treating your customers with respect. The world of analog synth enthusiasts is a very small community and word gets around fast. People can pull up your posts in March of 2008 when you were deciding which of the two P-5's to buy and your enthusiasm when you first got it. It's all out there. Be consistent, be professional, and you'll never have anything to worry about.

As a side note - if you do screw up, admit it and fix it. Accept blame when it is your fault and correct your actions immediately so it doesn't happen again. None of this should be news - it is simply common business sense 101.

Fact is, I would have thought the P-5 was packed in bubblewrap and boxed, just waiting for the label to be stuck on it, especially after the first payment.

BTW - isn't this the same P-5 that you've had some issues with over the past year or so or was that a different Prophet 5? Did those things get cleaned up?
Old 12th April 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Look. The fact is that I am never lightning fast about shipping.

I have never had anyone file a claim against me and it pissed me off.

As a result I took my sweet time.

I do what I say.

That is why feedback matters.

The only problem with the P5 was that I had never opened it up and cleaned it.

Once I started doing that about once every six weeks I stopped having issues.

I had also managed to wipe the memory because I had memory protect off and the midi cable was always hooked up to it.

I am inocent until proven guilty, and this is not kangaroo court.


OldGearGuy, I agree with you on all points.


The Kangaroo court comment is not directed at you.

Del Cosmos


You need to calm down.


Had you been calm in the first place none of this would have ever happened and as the rest of my (customers) found out, I go the extra mile to make people happy.

You have been a major headache to this point.


You should have contacted some of the people who have left feedback and asked about there experience with me.


A few of them would have probably said that it took longer than expected but that they were satisfied in the end.

As you may be.

As for the lack of communication.

I ADMIT THAT I COULD HAVE DONE BETTER.


DEl Cosmos


I hope that you are an honest person.

You are an unverified Paypal user living in Mexico, so I hope it is not I, who gets screwed.

All off your super fast complaining seems like the perfect setup to steal someones gear and claim that you never received it.



























Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Feedback is nice, but if someone is dropping $2k+ in your PayPal account (not once, but twice) and you choose - yes choose, not to stay in contact and/or ship immediately, then the feedback is worthless.

It's simply a matter of acting professionally and treating your customers with respect. The world of analog synth enthusiasts is a very small community and word gets around fast. People can pull up your posts in March of 2008 when you were deciding which of the two P-5's to buy and your enthusiasm when you first got it. It's all out there. Be consistent, be professional, and you'll never have anything to worry about.

As a side note - if you do screw up, admit it and fix it. Accept blame when it is your fault and correct your actions immediately so it doesn't happen again. None of this should be news - it is simply common business sense 101.

Fact is, I would have thought the P-5 was packed in bubblewrap and boxed, just waiting for the label to be stuck on it, especially after the first payment.

BTW - isn't this the same P-5 that you've had some issues with over the past year or so or was that a different Prophet 5? Did those things get cleaned up?
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