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Paypal question (Prophet 5) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 12th April 2010
  #31
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pinkerton's Avatar
 

???

why so defensive? feeling guilty?

also, it's never a good idea to tell a customer they "need to calm down"

you guys just need to part ways imo.
Old 13th April 2010
  #32
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by majdid View Post
So, did you pay the seller? although a free XT would be cool
Nope! heh The guy waited a month or so to even ship it, so I felt no moral obligation to be bothered with reimbursing him his money. The really neat part was the hefty profit I made when I sold it later on.
Old 13th April 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Nope! heh The guy waited a month or so to even ship it, so I felt no moral obligation to be bothered with reimbursing him his money. The really neat part was the hefty profit I made when I sold it later on.
Well in my opinion you are no better than him. Probably worse even. The way I see it you essentially stole it. You knowingly took something that you know you didn't pay for, and used paypal's buyer protection to do so. The only difference is you didn't do it pre meditatively.
Old 13th April 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Look. The fact is that I am never lightning fast about shipping.

I have never had anyone file a claim against me and it pissed me off.

As a result I took my sweet time.

I do what I say.

That is why feedback matters.
Wow, you are essentially blaming him because you admitted you are never lightning fast. If I give you $2700 you better contact me within 3 days. And then he trusts you again and you take a week, and then have the nerve to blame him saying he filed a claim against you so it pissed you off. AND THEN accuse him of being a potential scammer because he wants to know where is synth is??? REALLY?? He doesn't know you or at least he might be more understanding if you contact him and let him know you are delayed. AT LEAST keep people in the loop. Feedback can be helpful, but still no contact after a week I wouldn't be saying 'Oh, but he has good feedback...'
Old 13th April 2010
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathfinnie View Post
The way I see it you essentially stole it.
Glad I don't see it the way you do, then.
Old 13th April 2010
  #36
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathfinnie View Post
Wow, you are essentially blaming him because you admitted you are never lightning fast. If I give you $2700 you better contact me within 3 days. And then he trusts you again and you take a week, and then have the nerve to blame him saying he filed a claim against you so it pissed you off. AND THEN accuse him of being a potential scammer because he wants to know where is synth is??? REALLY?? He doesn't know you or at least he might be more understanding if you contact him and let him know you are delayed. AT LEAST keep people in the loop. Feedback can be helpful, but still no contact after a week I wouldn't be saying 'Oh, but he has good feedback...'
couldnt have been said better.
Old 13th April 2010
  #37
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Fair enough.

I am not accusing him of being a scammer, I am pointing out that waiting 3 days and filing a claim is a good way to come out on top when you know that the item SHOULD BE IN THE MAIL AND IN ROUTE TO YOUR HOME.




Not passing judjment against anyone here but there is no way in hell that the P5 could have gotten from here to Mexico in 3 days. That being said, there is the possibility of someone understanding that fact and using paypals buyer protection as a scam.

It has already been pointed out by HeathFinnie that this is a possibility, although he made no reference to my specific situation.

I actually am the kind of person who does not nag people about things.

Personally had the keyboard not shown up by the following Monday, I would have started to flip out a little, but only enough to contact the buyer.

After two weeks I would file a claim, not three days.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathfinnie View Post
Wow, you are essentially blaming him because you admitted you are never lightning fast. If I give you $2700 you better contact me within 3 days. And then he trusts you again and you take a week, and then have the nerve to blame him saying he filed a claim against you so it pissed you off. AND THEN accuse him of being a potential scammer because he wants to know where is synth is??? REALLY?? He doesn't know you or at least he might be more understanding if you contact him and let him know you are delayed. AT LEAST keep people in the loop. Feedback can be helpful, but still no contact after a week I wouldn't be saying 'Oh, but he has good feedback...'
Old 13th April 2010
  #38
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Perception is................


A free Waldorf?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Glad I don't see it the way you do, then.
Old 13th April 2010
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Scott,
Although I can understand your feelings about his paypal claim so quickly I still think you were in the wrong. You had his $2700 and he had silence...
I've done quite a lot of Synth purchasing over the years, some of it with Mr. Finnie & Mr Oldgearguy, when thousands of $$ are being transfered a communication is a standard courtesy, not an option. Communication from both sides helps to prevent the " I'm getting ripped off" feelings from spiraling out of control.
Derp.... by your own admission you're a thief that rationalizes his behavior. Thanks for letting us all know....
Old 13th April 2010
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Not passing judjment against anyone here but there is no way in hell that the P5 could have gotten from here to Mexico in 3 days.
I think he just expected some kind of communication, like "payment received, thanks, shipping the P5 in the next couple of days".

I don't think anyone expects to receive an item in three days or less.
It's all about communication.
Old 13th April 2010
  #41
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spider View Post
Derp.... by your own admission you're a thief that rationalizes his behavior. Thanks for letting us all know....
Well, the guy shipped it to me long after the judgment was passed in my favor and I got my money back, so it's not so much my thieving as his own idiocy.

And besides, aren't we missing a very important point here?

FREE MICROWAVE XT!!!

Ya really can't argue with that regardless of the means.
Old 13th April 2010
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Wow.... hopefully you're trolling ; gotta hope that no one's that oblivious.
Old 13th April 2010
  #43
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spider View Post
Wow.... hopefully you're trolling ; gotta hope that no one's that oblivious.
Oblivious to what? The guy sent me the XT long after I'd gotten my money back. If the guy wanted to give away his MicroWave without getting paid for it, that's his own problem, not mine.
Old 13th April 2010
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Oblivious to what? The guy sent me the XT long after I'd gotten my money back. If the guy wanted to give away his MicroWave without getting paid for it, that's his own problem, not mine.
Things can happen in error. Your behavior is highly unethical.
Old 13th April 2010
  #45
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffor View Post
Things can happen in error. Your behavior is highly unethical.
That's a hell of an error to have a month-long lapse of communication, refuse to acknowledge PayPal claim filings, have the money taken from your account after PayPal has sided against you, wait a week, and then send the synth anyway. It's his own big mistake. Let him learn from it rather than being coddled for his ineptitude.
Old 13th April 2010
  #46
Gear Addict
 

Because the seller didn't catch you ripping him off may make him ineffectual but it still makes you a thief. The standard isn't "it's good for him if I steal from him....perhaps he'll learn something".
Old 13th April 2010
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
It's his own big mistake. Let him learn from it rather than being coddled for his ineptitude.
Yeah, but you are fooling yourself if you think this is in any way OK.
Old 13th April 2010
  #48
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Derp's Avatar
lolz. You act like I was going out of my way to screw the guy over. He screwed himself over. End of story.
Old 13th April 2010
  #49
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Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
lolz. You act like I was going out of my way to screw the guy over. He screwed himself over. End of story.
Derp, from what I can gather from your other posts here, you seem like a good chap. So I was surprised to see what you have written in this thread. I don't want to preach to you -- especially since I'm not sure I wouldn't have done exactly the same thing in your shoes -- but from the perspective of traditional ethics, this one is unambiguous: you cannot knowingly and willingly benefit from someone else's mistake (regardless of that someone else's prior behavior).
Old 13th April 2010
  #50
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pinkerton's Avatar
 

was it a mistake or just an extreme act of good will?

i guess both are just as likely given the weirdness of the circumstance.

did you at least try to contact him? at least one email would have been sufficient (the OP could stand to take this advice too)
Old 13th April 2010
  #51
Gear Nut
 

So the OP has a complaint filed against him, works it out with the buyer and promises to ship within a day of receiving the money again; he accepts the money again...

...and then holds it for a week ("as a result I took my sweet time", followed by "I do what I say" ... LOL) out of spite, with no contact... and is at all surprised by anyones reactions?!

Taking your sweet time is not 'doing what you said'! Bad biz!
Old 13th April 2010
  #52
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Re: Derp's story


I wouldn't jump into conclusions because we don't know the whole story:

The seller was maybe fully aware Derp got refunded yet decided to compensate for the troubles he caused by sending him the XT for free.



Which would be very similar to my case and how i got free JP-4. The seller kept me waiting for 7 months for SH-2 and SH-3a, with my $1250 in his pockets. Not a single email. So one day i get email from him explaining me what happened, and to compensate for the trouble, he decided to give me a free JP-4. He just had some serious lack of time during those months (he was to design a new analog synth from "the land of the rising sun", but as the financial crisis struck - the project got held).
Old 13th April 2010
  #53
Scott, are you serious?

This was YOUR e mail a week ago after my first claim:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Armondo, I have refunded your money.

If you still want to buy the Prophet 5 at the terms and conditions that we agreed upon, please resend the money, and I WILL IMMEDIATELY SHIP THE PROPHET 5 AS AGREED!

No hard feelings.

Sorry about the confussion.

I am more than willing to do this over the right way if you are.

Thanks again!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, for a second time, I trusted in your word and re-sent the money, and again, you never answered back. After a week of e mails and PM's without a response, I feel so tired of this, and now, I only want my money back.

For your information I AM a verified paypal user, but the address in my paypal account is my home and I wanted the keyboard to be delivered to my recording studio (5 minutes distance).

I would love to know WHO you are, whats your cel phone, what's your address.

I trusted in you TWICE, not anymore and BTW, your feedback means nothing when you can't take 5 minutes to answer an e mail during a whole week.

Thank you for nothing.

delcosmos.
Old 13th April 2010
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Re: Derp's story


I wouldn't jump into conclusions because we don't know the whole story:

The seller was maybe fully aware Derp got refunded yet decided to compensate for the troubles he caused by sending him the XT for free.



Which would be very similar to my case and how i got free JP-4. The seller kept me waiting for 7 months for SH-2 and SH-3a, with my $1250 in his pockets. Not a single email. So one day i get email from him explaining me what happened, and to compensate for the trouble, he decided to give me a free JP-4. He just had some serious lack of time during those months (he was to design a new analog synth from "the land of the rising sun", but as the financial crisis struck - the project got held).
As i read it there was no communication from the XT seller that told Derp that he could have it for free.
As long as that communication isn't there, not paying for a received item is theft imo.

In your case it was explicitly a gift - which is absolutely fair and square.
Old 13th April 2010
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathfinnie View Post
Wow, you are essentially blaming him because you admitted you are never lightning fast. If I give you $2700 you better contact me within 3 days. And then he trusts you again and you take a week, and then have the nerve to blame him saying he filed a claim against you so it pissed you off. AND THEN accuse him of being a potential scammer because he wants to know where is synth is??? REALLY?? He doesn't know you or at least he might be more understanding if you contact him and let him know you are delayed. AT LEAST keep people in the loop. Feedback can be helpful, but still no contact after a week I wouldn't be saying 'Oh, but he has good feedback...'
Thank you Heathfinnie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilon View Post
I dont care about the rest of your feeback and I agree , 3 days is way too long for 2700 dollars. If someone was giving me 2700 dollars I would serve him in no time.

Unless of course I experienced a serious problem that did not allow me to act fast.
Thank you kilon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Feedback is nice, but if someone is dropping $2k+ in your PayPal account (not once, but twice) and you choose - yes choose, not to stay in contact and/or ship immediately, then the feedback is worthless.

It's simply a matter of acting professionally and treating your customers with respect. The world of analog synth enthusiasts is a very small community and word gets around fast. People can pull up your posts in March of 2008 when you were deciding which of the two P-5's to buy and your enthusiasm when you first got it. It's all out there. Be consistent, be professional, and you'll never have anything to worry about.

As a side note - if you do screw up, admit it and fix it. Accept blame when it is your fault and correct your actions immediately so it doesn't happen again. None of this should be news - it is simply common business sense 101.

Fact is, I would have thought the P-5 was packed in bubblewrap and boxed, just waiting for the label to be stuck on it, especially after the first payment.

BTW - isn't this the same P-5 that you've had some issues with over the past year or so or was that a different Prophet 5? Did those things get cleaned up?
Thank you Oldgearguy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spider View Post
Scott,
Although I can understand your feelings about his paypal claim so quickly I still think you were in the wrong. You had his $2700 and he had silence...
I've done quite a lot of Synth purchasing over the years, some of it with Mr. Finnie & Mr Oldgearguy, when thousands of $$ are being transfered a communication is a standard courtesy, not an option. Communication from both sides helps to prevent the " I'm getting ripped off" feelings from spiraling out of control.
Derp.... by your own admission you're a thief that rationalizes his behavior. Thanks for letting us all know....
Thank you spider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
i think he just expected some kind of communication, like "payment received, thanks, shipping the p5 in the next couple of days".

I don't think anyone expects to receive an item in three days or less.
It's all about communication.
thank you chrisso!!!!
Old 13th April 2010
  #56
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
As i read it there was no communication from the XT seller that told Derp that he could have it for free.
As i read it there was no communication from the XT seller that told Derp that he could NOT have it for free.
Old 13th April 2010
  #57
Gear Nut
 
apoptosis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Fair enough.

I am not accusing him of being a scammer, I am pointing out that waiting 3 days and filing a claim is a good way to come out on top when you know that the item SHOULD BE IN THE MAIL AND IN ROUTE TO YOUR HOME.
But it wasnt in route to him. You cant say "what if" I had already shipped it an it was on its way to be delivered and you freaked for no reason. Because that was not the case,and you sound like you are trying to cover your ass.

There is no reason for me to comment on the specifics of all this because everything I am going to say has already been said a few times over.
The 3 day wait was not that big a deal.Nail biting sure,but you fixed the problem and acted remorseful about it.Now you did it again and are actually trying to rationalize your actions by blaming the buyer.

Whats the story? Have you sent the synth yet? Refunded the money? Has he reported you again? Its been 3 days since he contacted you in this thread. Have you done anything to solve the situation yet?
Old 13th April 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
As i read it there was no communication from the XT seller that told Derp that he could NOT have it for free.
The absence of evidence it not the evidence of absence.heh

That is the only thing I could think of after reading your and grumphh's posts.
Old 13th April 2010
  #59
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OurDarkness's Avatar
 

That's a sad story. Perhaps Delcosmos should take legal action.
Old 13th April 2010
  #60
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
As i read it there was no communication from the XT seller that told Derp that he could NOT have it for free.
And in that case the old agreement still stands - i.e. that it is a sale.
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