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A huge disappointment with Adam quality! Studio Monitors
Old 30th November 2009
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaush1 View Post
Hello there,

may I indicate that we lowered the sensitivity of the A7 some time ago (Dec 2007, starting with se.nr. 40651) to achieve a better signal to noise ratio and have a more similar overall gain compared to our competitors.

If you have different sensitivity within your pair please take the volume pot to compensate for that, sound quality is not affected by that.

greetings
Why does this statement bother me so much?? Somehow..I cant believe this."sound quality is not affected by that". TWO different sensitivity/gain structures in a pair of speakers??Hmmm.Mario. Edited because the period made it look like I was saying .2 difference.
Old 30th November 2009
  #32
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus1 View Post
Why does this statement bother me so much?? Somehow..I cant believe this."sound quality is not affected by that".2 different sensitivity/gain structures in a pair of speakers??Hmmm.Mario.
and if "sound quality is not affected" then how could there be a better signal-to-noise ratio? Isn't that part of sound quality?
Old 30th November 2009
  #33
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus1 View Post
.2 different sensitivity/gain structures in a pair of speakers??Hmmm.Mario.
FWIW: The 'lowering of the sensitivity' that is being mentioned is, more than likely, not another potentiometer in the chain. A pad could merely be a couple of resistors in circuit. A variable resistor (aka a potentiometer), if it is of quality enough like conductive plastic, won't even degrade the signal noticeably.
All amplifiers have a variable gain structure of some sort.
I have used passive monitors for decades so I can't be sure but, I am pretty sure that ALL active monitors have some trim control somewhere.
With all that said: whats the "Hmmm" about?
In my experience, Adam makes great products. IF this isn't a user generated issue, I'm sure the company will make good.
Old 30th November 2009
  #34
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With active speakers, there are so many controls on it that it mostly up to the user to use the 'default' settings that the manufacturer thinks is best or tweak it to your heart's content.

I would have no problem with a manufacturer tweaking it -.2 db. As for sound quality, i think it's absurd. A room will mess up your sound more than the changed specs.
Old 30th November 2009
  #35
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mirror symmetry's Avatar
 

I would just like to add that i purchased a pair of A7's from Studiocare here in the UK about a year ago and have had a couple of minor problems with them.
The level of customer service i have recieved from both Studiocare and Adam has been exceptional and i am generaly very happy with my monitors although i also have noticed a quite sharp discrepancy in character between the units.
I had put this down to room acoustics as i am struggling to get them under control at the moment but this thread has made me consider the monitors may be at least partly to blame. To complicate matters i also have a hearing problem that results in a large imbalance in my stereo-field (leftfield bias, must be the socialist in me?) making it very hard for me to make judgement on the contribution of discrete factors.
Old 30th November 2009
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

See edited [post above...That was TWO different sensitivity/gain structures...not .2. The Hmmm,just me pondering/thinking about it all.M
Old 30th November 2009
  #37
adl
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@Klaus from Adam

Thanx for answering here! thumbsup

I really love my A7, didn´t mean to talk bad about them, but in my case the volume drop came suddenly about a year after using the A7. Not sure why this happened.

Guess i´ll send em back to thomann as i still have warranty.
Old 30th November 2009
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaush1 View Post
Hello there,

may I indicate that we lowered the sensitivity of the A7 some time ago (Dec 2007, starting with se.nr. 40651) to achieve a better signal to noise ratio and have a more similar overall gain compared to our competitors.

If you have different sensitivity within your pair please take the volume pot to compensate for that, sound quality is not affected by that.

greetings
honestly...im not an adam user. but his post will most certainly make me stay away from adam gear. so your monitor pairs vary in volume....wtf????!!!
Old 30th November 2009
  #39
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RusRant's Avatar
 

A few years back, right as the A7's had just come out, I was shopping for a new set of monitors. I tried a huge variety, but never got to demo the A7's. When the sales person took them out of the box, the 2nd one would not power up!!
I kind of lost interest at that point!!
Old 30th November 2009
  #40
Gear Nut
 

had my a7s for a while now and (knock on wood) i've had NONE of the problems listed here. sorry you've had bad experiences but i'm loving mine.
Old 30th November 2009
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumimusic View Post
never had an issue with my p22's
mixes translate well.
+1

my P22-A work the same way as when i bought 'em 5 yrs ago. i combine them with fostex BX6301 as 2nd pair for small/single-cone listening. works beautifully.


but i never worked with Artist series either, so dunno if this is common QC problem, or cpl of bad apples..



so far, i love ADAM stuff. wish i had the money for a S3X-V ... mmmm..
Old 30th November 2009
  #42
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jujumies's Avatar
 

I can also confirm that there are these volume issues with A7's. Among all the other problems I've had (broken power leds x 2, differing sound characteristics etc.) currently my right speaker is 1,5-2db softer than the other.... basically all this makes me just smile. What else can you do..
Old 30th November 2009
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
With active speakers, there are so many controls on it that it mostly up to the user to use the 'default' settings that the manufacturer thinks is best or tweak it to your heart's content.
Well, yeah. ...But AFTER you do that, it's not unreasonable to expect 'em to stay put!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
I would have no problem with a manufacturer tweaking it -.2 db. As for sound quality, i think it's absurd. A room will mess up your sound more than the changed specs.
Sure. ...But again, when I stop changing settings or room treatment, I expect consistent performance from that point on!
Old 1st December 2009
  #44
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So, I was indeed contacted by reps of Adam, but only to hear that apparently their statistics show that there are not many problems with their monitors and I should just keep on changing them. This was a surprise to me after all a quick search across the internet tells another story. But I guess this one way how to approach a situation where a definite quality issue is coming to public notice.

Simo / Studio Bad Mama
Old 1st December 2009
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujumies View Post
So, I was indeed contacted by reps of Adam, but only to hear that apparently their statistics show that there are not many problems with their monitors and I should just keep on changing them.
Wow, that is ridiculous! It *is* well known that they have the volume problem. When I bought my first pair I actually did have a problem with one speaker - the volume was about 2db lower and the port hole seriously resonated with mild bass. The other speaker was fine so I just exchanged the bad one and everything's been good so far (knock on wood). But man, if my Adams crap out before at least 5 or so years of use I won't be getting them again. I hope they last cause I do like them.

Thankfully, I seem to have had pretty good luck with gear. Used to use a set of Behringer Truth 2031A's for like 8 years with zero problems despite all the complaints. But after having upgraded to the BM5A's and A7's I now think of that time as a dark period... I always thought the Behringers were good and now I know just how bad they sucked LOL.

Oh, by the way, what level are you guys setting the volume knobs at? I keep mine at about -18.5db. I initially thought to turn it all the way up and it couldn't handle that well and it sounded lousy. For me the -18.5db setting works perfect.


Rev.
Old 1st December 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev2010 View Post
Wow, that is ridiculous! It *is* well known that they have the volume problem. When I bought my first pair I actually did have a problem with one speaker - the volume was about 2db lower and the port hole seriously resonated with mild bass. The other speaker was fine so I just exchanged the bad one and everything's been good so far (knock on wood). But man, if my Adams crap out before at least 5 or so years of use I won't be getting them again. I hope they last cause I do like them.

Thankfully, I seem to have had pretty good luck with gear. Used to use a set of Behringer Truth 2031A's for like 8 years with zero problems despite all the complaints. But after having upgraded to the BM5A's and A7's I now think of that time as a dark period... I always thought the Behringers were good and now I know just how bad they sucked LOL.

Oh, by the way, what level are you guys setting the volume knobs at? I keep mine at about -18.5db. I initially thought to turn it all the way up and it couldn't handle that well and it sounded lousy. For me the -18.5db setting works perfect.


Rev.
Same here. I also replaced my Behringers with A7's a couple of months ago and it sounds more detailed now. I can finaly judge reverb quality, hell I could even pick out summing mixers in an audio test without problems, something I could hardly do before. Bad for my wallet!!

I have the level of the A7's all the way up, so I'm sure they're equal in level. Didn't have any problems with them yet. Knock on wood.

Peter.
Old 1st December 2009
  #47
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baslotto's Avatar
Serials?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jujumies View Post
So, I was indeed contacted by reps of Adam, but only to hear that apparently their statistics show that there are not many problems with their monitors and I should just keep on changing them. This was a surprise to me after all a quick search across the internet tells another story. But I guess this one way how to approach a situation where a definite quality issue is coming to public notice.

Simo / Studio Bad Mama
Hi Simo,
I'm curious to know what your A7's serials are. Mine came in less than 1 year ago and no issues at all. I remember returning one of the speakers at first because only the twitter was working, I thought it could happen to anything.
Thanks.
Bas
Old 1st December 2009
  #48
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jujumies's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baslotto View Post
Hi Simo,
I'm curious to know what your A7's serials are. Mine came in less than 1 year ago and no issues at all. I remember returning one of the speakers at first because only the twitter was working, I thought it could happen to anything.
Thanks.
Bas
Serial numbers are: Left speaker (broken power led: P-81934) and right speaker ( resonating bass, lower volume than the other P-81925)
Old 1st December 2009
  #49
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Rev2010's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jujumies View Post
( resonating bass, lower volume than the other P-81925)
Interesting, you're getting the bass resonance too!? That's what the one I returned also had. I found that issue to be the most annoying.


Rev.
Old 1st December 2009
  #50
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jujumies's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev2010 View Post
Interesting, you're getting the bass resonance too!? That's what the one I returned also had. I found that issue to be the most annoying.


Rev.
Yep I got it.. I really like the sound of A7's but after Genelec's the quality is just unbelievable poor. There is this broken power led (actually I've had it already twice), this bass resonance and then of course the volume differences between monitors... But I guess there is nothing to worry about at least if you listen to the Adam representatives...

Simo
Old 1st December 2009
  #51
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I am an S3A user and wanted to check out a pair of S3X's... I've talked to a few people that bought them only to be told by the majority that I should wait. Apparently the quality control has been really bad... specifically problems with the low end distorting and inconsistency from speaker to speaker.

Adam quality control has been going down the drain!
Old 1st December 2009
  #52
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
honestly...im not an adam user. but his post will most certainly make me stay away from adam gear. so your monitor pairs vary in volume....wtf????!!!
Hi,

no they do not of course. Once within the 4 years of production we lowered the input sensitivity by 6 dB, and after this one change all A7s have the same sensitivity.
Old 1st December 2009
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaush1 View Post
Hi,

no they do not of course. Once within the 4 years of production we lowered the input sensitivity by 6 dB, and after this one change all A7s have the same sensitivity.
just from an outside perspective is seems that the complaints here have nothing to do with this change in sensitivity....it is mechanical breakdown after day of purchase resulting in one speaker being louder than the other WITHIN one pair (rather than between different pairs)...and other problems.

for a high end piece of gear.....that is a pretty serious issue. last thing you need when in the middle of a session is broken monitors.

i count myself lucky that my monitors (bm6p) have been in perfect working order since i got them 6 years ago.
Old 1st December 2009
  #54
Elk
Gear Nut
 

Unfortunately, as with every other product, most posts will be made by those that have a complaint. There always will be some with problems, especially if there is a lot of the product out there as there is with Adam.

This self-selected user sample does not mean that there is a particular issue with quality control.

If all Adam users happy with their monitors posted we would have an unending, but boring thread. heh

However, the problems are real and need to be addressed. The fact that Mr. Heinz is posting here is a good indication that Adam wants to resolve user concerns.
Old 1st December 2009
  #55
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
just from an outside perspective is seems that the complaints here have nothing to do with this change in sensitivity....it is mechanical breakdown after day of purchase resulting in one speaker being louder than the other WITHIN one pair (rather than between different pairs)...and other problems.

for a high end piece of gear.....that is a pretty serious issue. last thing you need when in the middle of a session is broken monitors.

i count myself lucky that my monitors (bm6p) have been in perfect working order since i got them 6 years ago.

____

from the quotes I had the impression that this might have been a possible reason, the cases you name are different and bad of course.
Old 1st December 2009
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
jujumies's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Unfortunately, as with every other product, most posts will be made by those that have a complaint. There always will be some with problems, especially if there is a lot of the product out there as there is with Adam.

This self-selected user sample does not mean that there is a particular issue with quality control.

If all Adam users happy with their monitors posted we would have an unending, but boring thread. heh

However, the problems are real and need to be addressed. The fact that Mr. Heinz is posting here is a good indication that Adam wants to resolve user concerns.
The fact that he is posting here is a good gesture, but doesn't mean anything concrete. Adam already contacted me and told me that there are no quality issues with A7's and that communicates how they see this issue. I have done a little research after my problems and I can tell you that there are quality issues with A7's. If these problems that people are having with A7's are normal or acceptable to you, perhaps we just demand different things when it comes to studio monitors. I'm sure there are lots of people who are totally satisfied with the monitors as long as some sound is coming out of them.

And what comes to Adam regarding this issue , to me it seems that they don't appreciate very much customers ( or their intelligence) as they think that the problem will go away just by denying it. Do they really think people are so stupid?

Simo
Old 1st December 2009
  #57
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jujumies View Post
The fact that he is posting here is a good gesture, but doesn't mean anything concrete. Adam already contacted me and told me that there are no quality issues with A7's and that communicates how they see this issue. I have done a little research after my problems and I can tell you that there are quality issues with A7's. If these problems that people are having with A7's are normal or acceptable to you, perhaps we just demand different things when it comes to studio monitors. I'm sure there are lots of people who are totally satisfied with the monitors as long as some sound is coming out of them.

And what comes to Adam regarding this issue , to me it seems that they don't appreciate very much customers ( or their intelligence) as they think that the problem will go away just by denying it. Do they really think people are so stupid?

Simo
Hello Simo,

you may underestimate what people want to hear from their A7s, we are successfull with this monitor because its sound is well estima"ted, not because some sound" comes out of it.

Before I can comment on these issues I have to look at what I can find out internally, unfortunately our international meeting takes place these days, so I need the time til next week to come up with something comprehensive, I ask for your patience.
Old 1st December 2009
  #58
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Rev2010's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
This self-selected user sample does not mean that there is a particular issue with quality control.
No, but all the other people that have experienced the same problems does make a point that there is indeed a QC or design issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
If all Adam users happy with their monitors posted we would have an unending, but boring thread. heh
Please allow me to be the flipside to your assessment. Sure there are plenty of happy users out there and most people only speak out when they're upset. But what do you think the ratio is of those happy users that have had their monitors for several years? See, when one goes and looks at product reviews all that crap is usually glowing reviews from people that are just so damn excited having their new gear that they post a good review immediately. I've recently put up reviews for some gear I've had 6+ years that is still in production. I think after a year or more one can offer an honest opinion.

So yeah, the truth is that there are bad stories associated with every product out there. And sure there are plenty who've had excellent experiences. Mine are working fine, only had them a number of months now so who knows how they'll hold up. But I think it does say something that I too had 2 of the problems he's having with a brand new unit that I had to exchange.


Rev.
Old 1st December 2009
  #59
Elk
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jujumies View Post
If these problems that people are having with A7's are normal or acceptable to you, perhaps we just demand different things when it comes to studio monitors.
Incorrect.

As I already stated, "the problems are real and need to be addressed."

Quote:
I'm sure there are lots of people who are totally satisfied with the monitors as long as some sound is coming out of them.
Nonsense.

The vast majority are happy as their monitors work superbly for them as used for their intended purpose.

Let Mr. Heinz take a shot at resolving your concern. You may end up joining the ranks of happy users.
Old 1st December 2009
  #60
Elk
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev2010 View Post
No, but all the other people that have experienced the same problems does make a point that there is indeed a QC or design issue.
Agreed. If there is a similar problem experienced by a significant number this does point to a common cause. Hopefully one Adam can track down and address.

Quote:
But what do you think the ratio is of those happy users that have had their monitors for several years?
I would expect very high. These monitors are still selling exceedingly well and the number of complaints is minuscule in comparison. From the Apple forums it appears that Macs are dreadful computers.

Quote:
I've recently put up reviews for some gear I've had 6+ years that is still in production. I think after a year or more one can offer an honest opinion.
You are absolutely correct. As a potential buyer your review would be of considerable interest to me, especially if you were using it in a similar fashion.
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