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The End of Music: There’s plenty of music already, so why bother making more? Desktop Synthesizers
Old 25th November 2009
  #31
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A songwriter friend and I talked a decade ago about why we wrote songs. It was a compulsion that we both agreed stemmed from a desire to leave something behind, some kind of legacy. That was in the late 90's. Indipendantly we both came to a different conclusion and he summed it up well. The reason I make music is because I have two hands and a set of ears. I won't always, someday I'm going to be long gone. While i'm here I'd like to have some fun making records.

It should be that simple instead of picking out the coolest shirt in your closet and worrying about market trends.
Old 25th November 2009
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Krusher View Post
Quote: "Certainly music itself is not dead. We’ll continue to hear something approximating it blaring in shopping malls..."

It's funny, because I work in music for picture (mostly TV), and I often say we don't actually make music, we make something that can be mistaken for music if you're not listening too closely. It's "like music", but it isn't actually music.
I was told in Hollyweird that if anyone noticed your music, you are doing a ****ty job. Hollywood music is made to be ignored. If no one notices, you have done a great job. How's that for an ego fix?

As to the kids, well, anything that upsets their parents will sell. For me it was Jimi Hendrix. Then my folks heard some of his ballads and told me they like them!

Arrruuggh!

Kids music is simply disposible fashion, it always has been. I don't take fashion very seriously. If you do, you will have to explain those high school photos some day down the road...

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 25th November 2009
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I was told in Hollyweird that if anyone noticed your music, you are doing a ****ty job.
Tell that to Bernard Hermann, Ennio Morricone, Philip Glass and Nino Rota.
tutt
This whole thread is depressing, not to mention crazy.
Old 25th November 2009
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsabin View Post
dfegad (Ipod)
there is no I in team
Old 25th November 2009
  #35
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Ahhh everything was so much better in the old days. I remember at the Tutamkhamon's funeral old Chumke-tequeh playing his one string harp - now that was music. Everything went down hill from than....
Old 25th November 2009
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cheese View Post
Time to press restart GOD.
....yeah....Jules?
Old 26th November 2009
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Krusher View Post
Quote: "Certainly music itself is not dead. We’ll continue to hear something approximating it blaring in shopping malls..."

It's funny, because I work in music for picture (mostly TV), and I often say we don't actually make music, we make something that can be mistaken for music if you're not listening too closely. It's "like music", but it isn't actually music.
Hey Wes,

..I know what you mean...but I'd be interested how you define each.. what then,IYO,separates the 'AK' from the 'IC'?
Old 26th November 2009
  #38
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Quote:
Shoot, you don't even have to leave your house or car. I subscribe to Sirius radio, and some of the channels are very good sources of new music. The Loft, Little Steven's Underground Garage, The Coffeehouse, . . . good stuff.
Exactly or Pandora.com just tell it what kind of music you
like and it tries to play the same type and you can fine tune
it by giving it thumbs up or down. Good place to discover good
music and to hear old favorites. Pandora is also an app for iPhone
and iPod touch that works the same way.

Daniel
Old 26th November 2009
  #39
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It would be nice to hear newer artists and a wider range of genres on Main Stream radio.You can thank Clear Channel,owner of the majority of radio stations here in the USA for that.
Not the same in Europe though.
Also,live shows are coming back and artists areg making money from that,especially older groups who still tour for the money.
That said there is a wealth of good music out there but you need to look.Like the poster said above Pandora is very interesting.
Type in a track you like and Pandora will find other tracks by other artists that are similar.


Dan P
Old 26th November 2009
  #40
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viewing's Avatar
how do you propose we create NEW music without NEW instruments?
Old 26th November 2009
  #41
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This article is dumb.

My friend Jessica Hopper, music journalist for the Chicago Tribune among other publications, posted about this article and this was my response.

Branca's quickly turned himself into an inconsequential curmudgeon. He's mistaking crankiness for penetrating insight.

There's no there there.

Pay him no mind.

He eventually tires himself out and rocks himself to sleep.

- c
Old 26th November 2009
  #42
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I always try to separate an artist's work from their opinions... even their opinions about their own work.

IMO, Branca's work is truly original. I give him a free pass for anything less than criminal.
Old 26th November 2009
  #43
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Agreed on the merits of his music.

The article is without one shred of merit, though, and the biggest peril is that the article becomes better known than his music.

There is a distinct danger of that happening --- "Glenn Branca... isn't he that dude who wrote that 'end of music' thing?" --- if people keep paying attention to this silly rant.

It belongs neither at the head of his wikipedia page nor at the end of his obituary.

It's quite simply unworthy of his music and someone should have stopped him before he sent it to press.

- c
Old 26th November 2009
  #44
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I would recommend Paxil for this guy. I make the music I want to make, period.
Old 26th November 2009
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsabin View Post
dfegad (Ipod)
So.... what's the problem with the ipod exactly? It loads and plays uncompressed AIFF just fine. If you choose to load crap quality tunes, that's not an ipod problem.

I see nothing but good having come from the ipod explosion. Granted, it would be cool if the itunes store offered AIFF instead of just 128/256k AAC.
Old 26th November 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman View Post
Well, that IS a classic Old Guy sentiment, you know...and please don't take offense, because I too could stay busy for the rest of my life just exploring whatever music has already been done. But my 13 and 15 year old daughters have a very strong affinity for what's current. They also love old stuff like Motown and Beatles, but their hearts are in 2009. Mention things like harsh production and lack of dynamics to them and they'll give you that look...it's a look that tells you you're being boring and difficult and hopelessly out of touch...and then they'll tell you why they love the music.

Music isn't ending and never will. It's just moving on.
Big +1 to this.
Old 26th November 2009
  #47
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We just got used to accelerated pace of novelty...and when it seems that it's not going so fast anymore, we complain. Well, not me. I hear enough new and exciting music around.

Just remember that until late 19th /early 20th century the only way to listen to music was life or playing it yourself. Only in the last 100 years we saw progress from wax cylinders to digital recordings with all the stops in between. This is an amazing fact that we should be astounded by.

Just remember how slowly the instruments and styles changed from let's say baroque to romanticism (ca. 300, 400 years) and how many changes we saw in the last 100 years - from new instruments (electrification of some acoustic instruments, new constructions, synthesized sound of all sorts (analog synths, digital synths, FXs, computer software, etc.) to new, undreamed of styles and outright musical revolutions (electronica / musique concrete, serialism, aleatoric, rock'n'roll, jazz, punk, reggae, dub, hip hop, house, drum'n'bass and all sorts of breakbeat, fusion, world music (combining of very different traditions with other contemporary styles - mostly jazz, new age, etc.), etc., etc.)

The OP statement is false and also useless - even if all was already said (sung, played), which is not true, it would still be extremely fun and satisfying to produce new music (although unoriginal and somehow recycled). But that is not the case; at each step of existence we are convinced that we have heard and seen all and then always something radically different or fresh comes along or the music slowly evolves so we don't even notice its novelty.
Old 26th November 2009
  #48
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It's recorded music that's dead. Combine that with technology's ability to totally change how we share and experience a record or a song, and live music suddenly becomes the only thing you can't copy anymore...

Exciting!
Old 26th November 2009
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Tell that to Bernard Hermann, Ennio Morricone, Philip Glass and Nino Rota.
tutt
This whole thread is depressing, not to mention crazy.
Reality can be a cold slap in the face. It's good for you. It helps snap you out of your slumber.

My experience in the post world is this:

If your music enhances the visuals, you are doing a good job. If the music makes a viewer stop during the film and think, "wow, this is a great soundtrack", you are in deep doo doo.

What they want is this: You don't notice the music until AFTER the film is finished. If you reflect that the music was great AFTERWARDS, you get an Oscar. If the viewer stops and notices the music during the film, that is considered a distraction and that is not wanted. Just like surround effects are carefully mixed in to not make the viewer turn their head around, the music is made to support the visuals, not to steal attention away from them.

So, in that world, mediocre is the standard. You can be a great composer, but not too great. Those composers will usually save their best work for music only release.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 26th November 2009
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Reality can be a cold slap in the face. It's good for you. It helps snap you out of your slumber.

My experience in the post world is this:

If your music enhances the visuals, you are doing a good job. If the music makes a viewer stop during the film and think, "wow, this is a great soundtrack", you are in deep doo doo.

What they want is this: You don't notice the music until AFTER the film is finished. If you reflect that the music was great AFTERWARDS, you get an Oscar. If the viewer stops and notices the music during the film, that is considered a distraction and that is not wanted. Just like surround effects are carefully mixed in to not make the viewer turn their head around, the music is made to support the visuals, not to steal attention away from them.

So, in that world, mediocre is the standard. You can be a great composer, but not too great. Those composers will usually save their best work for music only release.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
I don't know about that. I see what you're saying, but I reckon there is definitely a particular greatness involved in getting it so the music does NOT interfere, but very strongly frames the visuals in the suitable emotion, and definitely not doing this by being mediocre.

Mediocre seems to me would be the exact thing that WOULD stick out from the visuals and sidetrack the whole thing into tacky cheapness, like so many straight to DVD releases .........

So to say you better not be a good composer for this task seems a little far stretched. In fact you have to be one more thing than an otherwise already good composer (that being someone who is able to make emotional landscapes with music), you have to be the guy to produce THE RIGHT EMOTION in the right place, suitable to the plot, moment, etc.....not just anything. So you have to bring an ability to 'read' what emotional framing is needed and then be able to pull it out of the hat in a way so it doesn't 'get heard' but very much felt when watching the movie......

I will agree that maybe you could argue mediocre is the standard (like all that DVD dross), but to do this gig properly definitely takes more than reeling of ****e and pasting it to picture.......

I hear a faint whistle over the sand.........nuff said heh
Old 26th November 2009
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Reality can be a cold slap in the face. It's good for you. It helps snap you out of your slumber.

My experience in the post world is this:

If your music enhances the visuals, you are doing a good job. If the music makes a viewer stop during the film and think, "wow, this is a great soundtrack", you are in deep doo doo.

What they want is this: You don't notice the music until AFTER the film is finished. If you reflect that the music was great AFTERWARDS, you get an Oscar. If the viewer stops and notices the music during the film, that is considered a distraction and that is not wanted. Just like surround effects are carefully mixed in to not make the viewer turn their head around, the music is made to support the visuals, not to steal attention away from them.

So, in that world, mediocre is the standard. You can be a great composer, but not too great. Those composers will usually save their best work for music only release.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
This might be a standard for mediocre films, aimed primarily at earning $$, but I noticed music in most Tarantino's films DURING the viewing - thinking "what a funny choice of context for that or that song" or "who's singing/playing that?", a nice sub-reading that only added to the overall cinematic experience.

The same with Kubrick - I hope you won't say that the works used in (let's say) "2001: A space odyssey" are lesser works of those composers (Ligeti, both Strausses, etc.) And there was and still is a lot of quality classical music used in many films. I especially notice Mahler and Arvo Part. "Cantus In memoriam Benjamin Britten" was (ab)used so many times that I almost started to hate it, the same is with some other songs that are used over and over again and that cannot pass unnoticed - Ryuichi Sakamoto's Bibo no Aozora or Gustavo Santaolalla's "Iguazu" and of course the much overused Leonard Cohen song in Jeff Buckley's version "Hallelujah".

I also noticed the soundtrack by Peter Gabriel during the "Last Temptation of Christ" and "Birdy" and it only made those films more enjoyable... I was eagerly awaiting what brilliant musical idea, what sound will come next...

I don't know...I'd say mediocrity might suite some, but the really good ones use outstanding music for their movies. Don't get me started with Nyman/Greenaway collaboration and the immense impact the music has in those films or another legendary cinematic duo - Preisner/Kieslowski. You sometimes don't know if you are watching visuals that accompany the music as main element or is it the other way around.

And of course everyone knows about the importance of Nino Rota, particularly for Fellini's movies or what did Ennio Morricone do for Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns...

This is all very noticable music that is an equal part of cinematic language, not just some soundscape to fill in the void.
Old 26th November 2009
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzooo View Post
I would recommend Paxil for this guy. I make the music I want to make, period.
Wow,paxil!! that's overkill..but.
Old 26th November 2009
  #53
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I didn't read the whole post but I don't think there is anything wrong with rock going to the underground.

There is nothing better then seeing an actual GOOD rock band in a small venue packed with people.


As far as I am concerned the faster rock goes underground, the faster new GOOD rock bands are going to start to show up.
Old 27th November 2009
  #54
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lord_bunny's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Reality can be a cold slap in the face. It's good for you. It helps snap you out of your slumber.

My experience in the post world is this:

If your music enhances the visuals, you are doing a good job. If the music makes a viewer stop during the film and think, "wow, this is a great soundtrack", you are in deep doo doo.

What they want is this: You don't notice the music until AFTER the film is finished. If you reflect that the music was great AFTERWARDS, you get an Oscar. If the viewer stops and notices the music during the film, that is considered a distraction and that is not wanted. Just like surround effects are carefully mixed in to not make the viewer turn their head around, the music is made to support the visuals, not to steal attention away from them.

So, in that world, mediocre is the standard. You can be a great composer, but not too great. Those composers will usually save their best work for music only release.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Ryuichi Sakamoto's "Bibo No Aozora" from Babel is another good example of something that really moved me within the film and as it's own piece, and I didn't buy the soundtrack, but sought out this particular part of it.

Music's fine. We'll be dead and gone for hundreds of years and music's going to be clipping along just swell-like.
Old 27th November 2009
  #55
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Music is like porn: there will always be the need for new stuff.



Old 19th March 2010
  #56
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Pop music from the USA sucks. Other countries have it much better, especially japan. Heck, there is a great fusion band from Khazakstan.

I think the main problem is death of the club scene. You can't make a living as a performing musician anymore.
Old 19th March 2010
  #57
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Quote:
Other countries have it much better, especially japan.
Japan had very good pop in the past. Unfortunately, it's sucking more and more since a few years back. Everything has been so formated to a point far worse that what you can find in the Billboard charts.

Indies scene is strong, but most of the artists can't make a living from it.
Old 19th March 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock View Post
If you think music is dead or has nothing new to say I would suggest you visit Asheville NC one weekend.

Also, check out the incredible music in the indie and audiophile labels.

Music is alive a strong despite its diminished sale.

There is a vast difference between sales of music which you allude to and the quality of music in the real music scenes. The major labels is not where the good and innovative music is today.
HA! Have often thought of moving there! Sounds like now is the time. That has always looked like a cool area of the country to live in.
Old 19th March 2010
  #59
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Yes: "new" music is in fact recycled old music. Music "evolves", if that's the right word, verrrrry slowwwwwwly.

I mean, even if you stretch your imagination as far as you can, what would you imagine? Read my lips: unlistenable sonic hash. Some people actually claim to like this stuff. But we are culturally, and maybe even genetically wired to be moved by certain sonorities and even certain timbres. Frankly, nothing bothers me more than people who insist this isn't true. I suspect they mostly just have no chops and are makers of unlistenable sonic hash themselves.
Old 19th March 2010
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
For more than half a century we’ve seen incredible advances in sound technology but very little if any advance in the quality of music.

X the answer is right there and not many can put 2 and 2 together.

To survive, the ''big'' 4 will put out the flavour of the week just to keep their heads above water, screw musicianship, moneymoneymoneyeonyeyon!
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