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-----------Gibson Offices Raided by US Fish & Wildlife Service!!!
Old 18th November 2009
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
And nobody wants to talk about the guitars they make out of baby seals.
your best in a long time!
Old 18th November 2009
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicola View Post
Wow. Yeah, ecological destruction and political instability are awesome as long as they make guitars out of good wood.

You're a dip****.

BTW, you're "supposed" buddy ("of course" you don't know him) that smuggled illegal wood out of brazil sounds like a "real" story. Not something to be proud of. And not really all that brilliant.

Man watch your language towards me. I'll report you next time. No excuse for foul language here. I was making a joke.

As far as Gibson goes, innocent until proven guilty in a court of what? and not public opinion
Old 18th November 2009
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
And nobody wants to talk about the guitars they make out of baby seals.
That why my old ES 175 smelled so weird? It did always have a dead sound..
Old 18th November 2009
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkopald View Post
That why my old ES 175 smelled so weird? It did always have a dead sound..
Yes. And the nitro-lacquer they use has whale oil in it.

Let's just see how many urban legends we can start on this thread!
Old 18th November 2009
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Man watch your language towards me. I'll report you next time. No excuse for foul language here. I was making a joke.

As far as Gibson goes, innocent until proven guilty in a court of what? and not public opinion
You're forgetting that this is a crime so heinous that innocence would be NO EXCUSE!!!

Old 18th November 2009
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Yes. And the nitro-lacquer they use has whale oil in it.

Let's just see how many urban legends we can start on this thread!
Nitro is actually illegal in many states. In fact it is Illegal to spray it in ALL
states unless sprayed w/ an HVLP gun or without special filtration units . It's an EPA thing.

that's why companies like PRS , Hamer, Fender etc... All pretty much use Polyester now
Old 18th November 2009
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Nitro is actually illegal in many states. In fact it is Illegal to spray it in ALL
states unless sprayed w/ an HVLP gun or without special filtration units . It's an EPA thing.

that's why companies like PRS , Hamer, Fender etc... All pretty much use Polyester now
I see.

...So little by little, guitars are being outlawed!

And I thought the "Central Scrutinizer" from Joe's Garage was just a joke!

Old 18th November 2009
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Nitro is actually illegal in many states. In fact it is Illegal to spray it in ALL
states unless sprayed w/ an HVLP gun or without special filtration units . It's an EPA thing.

that's why companies like PRS , Hamer, Fender etc... All pretty much use Polyester now
That totally is not true! I can buy and spray in almost any state but California, and there it still can be done with the right controls in place. The fact that they(Prs, fender, etc) use poly is based on it being easier and cheaper to apply and finish. And that it is more stable and ages better than nitro. Plus the fact that Nitro is very dangerousin vapor or mist form. And just so you know, both gibson and fender still use nitro for a number of there models. Knowledge is power!
Old 18th November 2009
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
I see.

...So little by little, guitars are being outlawed!

And I thought the "Central Scrutinizer" from Joe's Garage was just a joke!

they have plenty of good wood in india and even here in the states that's not endangered or whatever. anyone who says they can hear the difference between indian and brazilain rosewood is imagining it. Does a Les Paul custom sound that much different than a standard? no...... and one has an ebony board and you can't hear a difference. Original 57-60 pauls had maple that came from upstate Michigan. the mahogany may have been amazon rain forest or whatever the sound of the top has a certain quality for sure. I don't think rosewood finger boards are all that different in sound. Maple is obviously brighter. but does a Rock Maple board sound different than say birds eye? I don't know, birds eye is diseased wood and can be very unstable but everyone still loves it and still uses it?

The wood may become rare? who knows. stockpile all the gibsons you can, just in case.

we'll see?
Old 18th November 2009
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
That totally is not true! I can buy and spray in almost any state but California, and there it still can be done with the right controls in place. The fact that they(Prs, fender, etc) use poly is based on it being easier and cheaper to apply and finish. And that it is more stable and ages better than nitro. Plus the fact that Nitro is very dangerousin vapor or mist form. And just so you know, both gibson and fender still use nitro for a number of there models. Knowledge is power!

you can buy pot in every state too? sure you can buy it I'm just telling you it is technically illegal to spray without hvlp. also poly is not cheaper and is much harder to apply since it does not melt in and you can't use solvent to melt in . They got fined by the EPA at the body shop I used to work at 20 years ago for spraying nitro without proper filtration and proper disposal of solvents like glycol ether etc....

Fender uses Nitro? in mexico? Japan? korea? Indonesia? china? where 95% of their gtrs come from? hmmmm. weird I don't know but every fender or Hamer or PRS Ive seen in the last 10 years is polyester. Even though stewmac sells cans of nitro doesn't mean it is legal to actually spray them in your state. there may be a law? there may not be? who cares anyway. I just figured if some of you guys are so concerned about endangered rosewood maybe Ozone Depletion and Enhanced GHE may bother you too? Maybe the Tropospheric temperature inversion caused by pollutants such as CFCs and burning of fossil fuels may cause you lack of sleep too? who knows?

knowledge is power? LOL
knowledge is trivia, creativity is power my friend, someday you may discover the truth and find ataraxia........

anyway back to wood.

"He who plants a tree Plants a hope."
Old 18th November 2009
  #41
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Fletcher's Avatar
... at the head of the Gibson scandal is Pablo Essguitar
Old 18th November 2009
  #42
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RusRant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
you can buy pot in every state too? sure you can buy it I'm just telling you it is technically illegal to spray without hvlp. also poly is not cheaper and is much harder to apply since it does not melt in and you can't use solvent to melt in . They got fined by the EPA at the body shop I used to work at 20 years ago for spraying nitro without proper filtration and proper disposal of solvents like glycol ether etc....

Fender uses Nitro? in mexico? Japan? korea? Indonesia? china? where 95% of their gtrs come from? hmmmm. weird I don't know but every fender or Hamer or PRS Ive seen in the last 10 years is polyester. Even though stewmac sells cans of nitro doesn't mean it is legal to actually spray them in your state. there may be a law? there may not be? who cares anyway. I just figured if some of you guys are so concerned about endangered rosewood maybe Ozone Depletion and Enhanced GHE may bother you too? Maybe the Tropospheric temperature inversion of pollutants such as CFCs and burning of fossil fuels may cause you lack of sleep? who knows?

knowledge is power? LOL
Sure you have to have appropiate ventilation and waste management, but it's not illegal to spray. And for your knowledge, fender USA use's nitro on a ton of there custom shop guitars. Who cares you say? Well you apparently cared enough to post it, I was correcting your mistake. Thank me, or not! Who cares!
Old 18th November 2009
  #43
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
... at the head of the Gibson scandal is Pablo Essguitar
Old 18th November 2009
  #44
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RusRant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
... at the head of the Gibson scandal is Pablo Essguitar
I knew it!!! He's the ring leader of that giant guitartel!!!
Old 18th November 2009
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
Sure you have to have appropiate ventilation and waste management, but it's not illegal to spray. And for your knowledge, fender USA use's nitro on a ton of there custom shop guitars. Who cares you say? Well you apparently cared enough to post it, I was correcting your mistake. Thank me, or not! Who cares!
you WIN!!! I forfeit LOL
Old 18th November 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
I don't know, birds eye is diseased wood and can be very unstable but everyone still loves it and still uses it?
Also not true. Man, where do you get this stuff? Your right man, you don't know!! Have a great evening though!!
Old 18th November 2009
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
Also not true. Man, where do you get this stuff? Your right man, you don't know!! Have a great evening though!!

birds eye is almost always diseased wood. sorry man it is true. Call it figuring call it,
pretty, but it is diseased wood, learned it in Botany class like 1990

Wood: Craft, Culture, History - Google Books



is birdseye maple less stable than regular maple? - Telecaster Guitar Forum

6th post down



this is the Orca..... over and out. Hooper drives the boat chief
Old 18th November 2009
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
also poly is not cheaper and is much harder to apply since it does not melt in and you can't use solvent to melt in . They got fined by the EPA at the body shop I used to work at 20 years ago for spraying nitro without proper filtration and proper disposal of solvents like glycol ether etc....

Fender uses Nitro? in mexico? Japan? korea? Indonesia? china? where 95% of their gtrs come from? hmmmm. weird I don't know but every fender or Hamer or PRS Ive seen in the last 10 years is polyester.
Paint technology has come a long way in the last 20-30 years and these days Polyurethane is much easier, and less time consuming than nitro. Nitro itself is cheap, but the time that it takes to do a nitro finish is what costs so much money. Storage space + time = money.

Fender uses nitro only on american guitars and only certain ones; mostly re-issues and I think some other custom shop guitars.

I believe gibson still uses nitro on all their guitars.

I'm pretty sure that you are correct that it is illegal to spray it without proper ventilation/filtration/etc.

I doubt many paint companies whether they're automotive, commercial, industial, or residential properly dispose of their solvents and most could and should be fined for it. I've worked for 2 industrial companies now and it kills me to know how much damage what I do for a living does to the environment. I won't be doing it much longer.

Rusrant is correct that you can buy nitrocellulose laquer in just about any state but california. Sherwin Williams carries it. I'm sure that not all of them stock it though, but they can order it for you.
Old 18th November 2009
  #49
Gear Nut
 

Got to put a Rosewood dealer on speed dial!
Old 18th November 2009
  #50
Old 18th November 2009
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
I see.

...So little by little, guitars are being outlawed!

And I thought the "Central Scrutinizer" from Joe's Garage was just a joke!

No, only GOOD guitars are being outlawed. We'll still have plenty of crap for GC to sell!

The price of vintage guitars probably just doubled again. Thanks, Obama.
Old 18th November 2009
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Santillan View Post
Paint technology has come a long way in the last 20-30 years and these days Polyurethane is much easier, a.
It may be. I've actually been using water based laquer with good results.
Still like nitro the best. always thought poly gave a better end result
but not as forgiving? Plus the myth (maybe) that nitro lets the gtr breath more?

We'll never know for sure
Old 18th November 2009
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Thanks, Obama.
he gets all the credit
Old 18th November 2009
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B View Post
The Feds should rescue Studiovision from their evil clutches while they're at it.
-Ben B
I'm with you! That was an evil boneheaded move as well...
Old 18th November 2009
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
That totally is not true! I can buy and spray in almost any state but California, and there it still can be done with the right controls in place. The fact that they(Prs, fender, etc) use poly is based on it being easier and cheaper to apply and finish. And that it is more stable and ages better than nitro. Plus the fact that Nitro is very dangerousin vapor or mist form. And just so you know, both gibson and fender still use nitro for a number of there models. Knowledge is power!
Polyester ages "better?

No.

Polyester ages differently, not better.

It doesn't let the wood breathe, so the wood doesn't age properly.

It doesn't get those lovely check marks when it gets old.

It's prone to ugly chipping.

It's much thicker and heavier and doesn't resonate properly.

But it is a lot easier to spray on a production line and it dries quickly.

More f-ing progress - who needs it?
Old 18th November 2009
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
they have plenty of good wood in india and even here in the states that's not endangered or whatever. anyone who says they can hear the difference between indian and brazilain rosewood is imagining it. Does a Les Paul custom sound that much different than a standard? no...... and one has an ebony board and you can't hear a difference. Original 57-60 pauls had maple that came from upstate Michigan. the mahogany may have been amazon rain forest or whatever the sound of the top has a certain quality for sure. I don't think rosewood finger boards are all that different in sound. Maple is obviously brighter. but does a Rock Maple board sound different than say birds eye? I don't know, birds eye is diseased wood and can be very unstable but everyone still loves it and still uses it?

The wood may become rare? who knows. stockpile all the gibsons you can, just in case.

we'll see?
Robert, with all due respect, you're wrong.

A Les Paul Custom - a PROPER one (in recent years some guitars bear the "custom label that don't meet the real spec) is significantly different from a standard - it's not just the ebony fingerboard.

A proper Custom has a 100% mahogany body - including the top. A Standard has a maple top. This gives the standard a significantly brighter tone than a Custom, and also is the reason that Customs tend to be so friggin' heavy.

Furthermore, you appear to have some confusion about woods. Rosewood is not the same as ebony. Ebony is much harder and denser than either rosewood or mahogany, which means it is not a prone to wear when used for fingerboards. Rosewood is harder and denser than Mahogany, which is actually comparatively soft. A mahogany fingerboard will wear out fairly rapidly and require replacement much sooner than rosewood, which will last longer than mahogany but not as long as ebony.
Old 18th November 2009
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dee View Post
Screw the lemurs already.
+10
Old 18th November 2009
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post

The price of vintage guitars probably just doubled again. Thanks, Obama.
Whew! Glad I didn't jump the gun on selling my LP standard to buy one o' them baby seal geetars! Think I'll hold out a bit longer...
Old 18th November 2009
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
they have plenty of good wood in india and even here in the states that's not endangered or whatever. anyone who says they can hear the difference between indian and brazilain rosewood is imagining it. Does a Les Paul custom sound that much different than a standard? no...... and one has an ebony board and you can't hear a difference. Original 57-60 pauls had maple that came from upstate Michigan. the mahogany may have been amazon rain forest or whatever the sound of the top has a certain quality for sure. I don't think rosewood finger boards are all that different in sound. Maple is obviously brighter. but does a Rock Maple board sound different than say birds eye? I don't know, birds eye is diseased wood and can be very unstable but everyone still loves it and still uses it?

The wood may become rare? who knows. stockpile all the gibsons you can, just in case.

we'll see?
So you like destroying species, stating absolutley false untrue statements , and you report people for saying the word shi$%^t on website!! Your like Jon Mccain in a prom dress!! Just kidding- but there is HUGE difference in sound on all different rosewoods and the les pauls are completely different, body wood and all. Fret boards are key part of the sound!! It would be nice for our great grand kids to be able to play guitars not molded from plastic. WHOEVER SAID LES PAULS ARE UGLY IS BIG GIANT TOOL WITH NO TASTE!!
Old 18th November 2009
  #60
rk.
Gear Nut
 

I have to say, it would not matter if Gibson were using the very finest, rarest wood available, it still wouldn't make their guitars any better. Maybe 1 in 20 are really nice, but overall the quality of all their instruments has dropped a lot. Same goes for Fender (although Fender Japan guitars of a consistently higher standard in my experience, but we don't see that many here in UK).

I played hunreds of guitars from both companies when i worked at a big guitar store, and the sheer amount of basic problems with the guitars is depressing.

Using protected timber sucks, but when you can't even make a decent guitar with said wood, it just adds insult to injury.
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