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"Engineers" that have never Assisted or Interned Consoles
Old 22nd November 2009
  #61
Gear Nut
 

Rumi,
call it whatever you like, It works for me and thats that. Not bragging just making a point. Im not sure where you got the bragging thing from.
I also agree that there are some great guys that come out of education institutes, however that being said Fullsail is just a pay to get your degree institute. NO ONE should come out of a school like that who has graduated and not be able to realize which inputs he is using on a console or have no clue how compression works. I have viewed this many many times with my own eyes with kids from fullsail. Fullsail equals get out what you put in. That simple. If you dont want to learn no problem you still get a a degree, and that is why people don't hire people from fullsail. I know there are exceptions as with any school or situation.
Old 23rd November 2009
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
And on another note, (and I know tons of people will have major issues with this)
I started charging for my internships. I weed through the slack ass kids by doing an interview, making them sign a contract and then charging them. By charging they make sure they show up and learn. They feel like they have to get their moneys worth this way. Besides my hands on education is better than any 70k full sail education any day and at a tiny tiny fraction of the cost.
I would think that this would cause you problems with your paying clients. If the interns are paying you to be there, doesn't that foster a (admittedly-deserved) sense of entitlement in your interns? Doesn't it actually **** up their sense of etiquette? If they're paying you, then that, in effect, makes THEM clients, which gives them every right to be here, there, and anywhere, and ask every question that comes to mind, same as your "regular" clients (eg - the band you're recording), regardless of whether you feel like answering it or not, or whether it's appropriate, etc...

I'm just thinking back to my days in the audio program at college, thinking back to all the chatty, entitled students who'd interrupt a teacher, or a session, or another student, or a musician, or a take, to ask whatever question sprang to mind because, they were there to learn, and they were paying top dollar for it, and it was the responsibility of those receiving their money to humor and even encourage that.

Not that I run the greatest studio in the world, but we try to instill a sense of pride in our (unpaid, and unpaying) interns by treating them with respect, but expecting them to act as professionals. We want them to feel like a PART of the studio, part of the TEAM, not some hired kid. I have a hard time saying "no" to a client who's paying me a rather large sum of money to make his record; I imagine I'd have a hard time saying "no" to an intern who's paying me for his education as well, and that just goes against every conceivable benefit for every party involved in the record-making process, from engineer and producer to musician to the interns themselves.
Old 24th November 2009
  #63
Gear Nut
 

BG
Ok let me just make every one a little bit more mad and say that before we take them as interns we have the sign contracts with us stating they will not interrupt sessions to ask questions, swear, wear vulgar clothing, take personal calls, etc etc etc. We also reserve the right to revoke the internship at anytime. Most of the guys we take already have some experience so they don't need to ask basic stuff throughout the day. At the end of the day we then stay later to answer any questions that they may have had during the duration of the session. We treat them with utmost respect and never let any issues or questions they may have go unresolved. So yes they are clients in the long run.

To be honest before I started this policy I had way more trouble with the kids that didn't pay and have contracts because they felt like they had nothing to lose. I would run through interns like water and that just sucks. I would think i found a good kid and in a couple weeks he would just not give a ****. The clients would see a new kid every week. So bad news all around. With this policy I have ZERO issues.

I have no problem saying no to anyone wether it be an intern or a client no matter how much they are paying me. I actually turn down work believe it or not. Not bragging at all just stating that i dont mix for guys that bring in garbage from the house and tell me to make it radio ready.

So not that i run the best studio in the world either but this works well for me and I have been in business a very long time with virtually no advertising. That is more than even some major studios can claim with this economy. Through out this recession we have stayed super strong so that speaks volumes for the type of business I run.
Old 24th November 2009
  #64
Gear Nut
 

BG
Nice studio by the way, I checked out your myspace page.
Old 24th November 2009
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
BG
Nice studio by the way, I checked out your myspace page.
Thanks
Old 25th November 2009
  #66
Gear Head
 

couldn't read whole thread.
if you can't get an internship for many many many years, and you just start buying gear and try to figure it out slowly but surely, is that not similar.
again if im repeating someones previously stated thoughts, sorry.
Old 25th November 2009
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamonrye View Post
couldn't read whole thread.
if you can't get an internship for many many many years, and you just start buying gear and try to figure it out slowly but surely, is that not similar.
again if im repeating someones previously stated thoughts, sorry.
Better than nothing, but not that similar - gear can't give you advice or tell you where you're going wrong.
Old 26th November 2009
  #68
RTR
Lives for gear
 
RTR's Avatar
I would kill for an internship and a chance to learn from a pro, my location has kept me from everything for 30 years now, there is just nothing around here but bedroom hip hop makers, so I actually do pretty good because my stuff beats the others!! SO..KEEP UP THE ****TY WORK bedroom beat maker, you just make my **** sound better!!!
Old 26th November 2009
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumimusic View Post
this is the same mentality that spawns 'pay to play' promotion where promoters take advantage of young bands by forcing them to sell a minimum number of overpriced tickets just to play a show.
The reason why I don't have a band anymore.
Old 29th November 2009
  #70
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Better than nothing, but not that similar - gear can't give you advice or tell you where you're going wrong.
i have a an ongoing long distance "internship" with someone i respect quite a bit, he will critique my stuff and i always get a little better after talking to him for an hour or two, so i did leave that out. so you are definitely right.
i figure 11 years of recording and a handful of advice over 5 of the years is hopefully close to interning for a year. i will say owning some gear and using it over and over is definitely better than the recording courses i took back in 1992, i really didn't retain that much and couldnt get an internship to save my damn life.
Old 29th November 2009
  #71
I would like to quote Fletcher, hopefully correctly.
----
Quote:
It ain't what you know, and ain't who you know, its - who knows what you know.
I think I got that right.
Old 28th January 2010
  #72
Gear Nut
 
nicholassss's Avatar
 

I found a private instruction program, i pay for it like, an apprenticeship almost. i go 6 hours a day, two days a week. learn everything i would from somewhere like full sail but at a one on one level. afterwards i'll get an internship. and hopefully i'll do well enough to get him to be a reference for me if i do well to get an internship someplace else too. and so on until hopefully i can get a job as an engineer somewhere.

after i posted^^^ i search and search for something like this. i think the whole paying to be an intern thing an go both ways. find a great teacher like tim and its totally worth it.

but if you're one of those guys who'll use an intern to just take out your trash and tear down the mics and dont show him anything its probably not worth charging.

you know what i mean? i dont wanna sound like a dick haha
Old 29th January 2010
  #73
It really depends on what you're charging the intern.

I don't agree with the charging myself but at the same time, I run through interns as well. I'm glad you found a system that works for you and your situation.

At my place, for free, they all want to observe and ask questions and pick my brain but then they don't do the intern work that they were told up front would need to be done (take out trash, dust surfaces, pack down cases, tidy up, coil cables etc) I don't have a toilet that they need to clean for crying out loud! I ask for 1 hour of honest work a week and in exchange, what I always do is set aside specific time for them to give them my takes on things. One week would be like who's involved in a big record. Another is compression and how it works. I actually lose time using interns. I can keep my place clean in less time than I take to teach them. If they don't appreciate that, they get a simple email saying "I'll call you next time I need you."

One had the gaul to bitch me out via voicemail. I just don't respond. They know what it means when I tell them that.

I set schedules and if I get a no show, no call, they're not invited back.

I haven't taken on an intern in months because I am not big enough to take on more than 1 or 2. But I take a vested interest in teaching them what I know. It's really odd. I just clean my own place now and wind up with the mentality of "F em"

At the same time, a friend came to me and wanted to intern, I explained how the situation works and how I'd let him use the space for a reasonable amount of time when I'm not there to work on his own projects. He's pretty good, helps a lot but he's broke right now and can't afford the gas to come out, no worries. He's invited back when he wants to come back.

Interns at least at my place are not about my ego, it's about helping them make better recordings now and in the future. If we all make better recordings, then maybe people will start buying records again and we'll all be able to make more money in the future.

Anyone who feels weird about an intern possibly competing with them in the future is a moron. The cream rises to the top.
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