The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
"Engineers" that have never Assisted or Interned Consoles
Old 11th November 2009
  #31
Lives for gear
 
-silent-sam-'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
GREAT post Silent-Sam!! Defiantly get what you are saying and pretty much agree 100%. The "rich kids" in the industry do drive me crazy also, but from my experience, at least in LA, most don't last too long. The reason being engineering is far from the glamorous job people have in their heads.

Also sorry to hear about your bad internships. I know they are defiantly out there. I was lucky with my one and only internship. That doesn't mean I didn't clean the toilet every day, get everyones food, dust the plaques, take out the trash and scrub a 9000J 96 channel with a swab (my back hurts just thinking about it). I also knew I would never be hired at that studio, the assistant had been there for 7 years at that point and they were very upfront about it. What I did get was a boss that had been in the business for a loooonnngggg time that was willing to vouch for me to other professionals. Which is VERY important.

I also saw my fair share of lazy interns. How I handled it was, if my boss also noticed, I would offer to take their hours so they could be let go. This led to ridiculous hours, but at the same time showed I was serious. Also another reason was I got free meals if I was working, which was my main source of food. That boss is still close friend, brings me paid work regularly, and also to this day helps advice me with career advice.
Yeah and thats a good internship........ I mean sure it would have been great if you could have worked your way up, but the fact that they were honest about that fact that it was un-likely that they would move you to assistant, because they were in love with there current assistant, is great.

To me thats respect.... That little bit of honesty changes everything....

It can help you leave your options open if you feel like MAYBE you could do better.

and I would have gladly cleaned there toilets, until something better came around, weather I found it myself, or weather they found it for me (like they did for you).


It's crazy that sometimes it has to be so hard when it can be so easy.

Just like everything else I guess.
Old 11th November 2009
  #32
Lives for gear
 
xmostynx's Avatar
 

i don't mean to be an asshole- but i'm sure my words are going to stir this pot.


you all sound like weiners....

all internships suck and thats it. you can't learn anything because engineers are broke and jackasses...

if you want to learn anything about audio- you should start by lifting boxes and setting up stages mix a few bands and get known as a good engineer, and then studio gigs happen...

i always thought studio gigs where the payoff for long ass days working on concert rigs.
but if your an 'engineer' then you should be flexible in both worlds- they should actually compliment each other-


plus my live sound internship lasted 3 years and i got paid awesome, sometimes almost 25$ an hour, sometimes only 10$ ,either way. i learned about capacitors, to drum heads- and most important- how to deal with bands, people, and managers.

BTW- i skipped scrubbing ****ters- if anyone asked me to clean a ****ter for free, i'd have to give them this look...

id rather stack subs for free than scrub a toilet... lol
Old 11th November 2009
  #33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmostynx View Post
i don't mean to be an asshole- but i'm sure my words are going to stir this pot.


you all sound like weiners....

all internships suck and thats it. you can't learn anything because engineers are broke and jackasses...

if you want to learn anything about audio- you should start by lifting boxes and setting up stages mix a few bands and get known as a good engineer, and then studio gigs happen...

i always thought studio gigs where the payoff for long ass days working on concert rigs.
but if your an 'engineer' then you should be flexible in both worlds- they should actually compliment each other-


plus my live sound internship lasted 3 years and i got paid awesome, sometimes almost 25$ an hour, sometimes only 10$ ,either way. i learned about capacitors, to drum heads- and most important- how to deal with bands, people, and managers.

BTW- i skipped scrubbing ****ters- if anyone asked me to clean a ****ter for free, i'd have to give them this look...

id rather stack subs for free than scrub a toilet... lol
hmmm that's weird because I have never ran into a studio engineer that has much to any experience in live sound, except pulling a favor for a friend's band. At least any engineer I respect, but that's just my experience in LA. Glad the path worked for you and is a good idea for others to look into that are having troubles finding a studio internship. Personally I consider live audio and studio audio two completely different areas of study and would not automatically consider someone good in one to be good in the other.

I do find it funny that you call everyone weiners, when you are the person that is too good to scrub toilets. News flash someone has to do it and it's not really a big deal. Guessing when you make that face you are also shown the door.
Old 11th November 2009
  #34
Lives for gear
 
xmostynx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
hmmm that's weird because I have never ran into a studio engineer that has much to any experience in live sound, except pulling a favor for a friend's band. At least any engineer I respect, but that's just my experience in LA. Glad the path worked for you and is a good idea for others to look into that are having troubles finding a studio internship. Personally I consider live audio and studio audio two completely different areas of study and would not automatically consider someone good in one to be good in the other.

I do find it funny that you call everyone weiners, when you are the person that is too good to scrub toilets. News flash someone has to do it and it's not really a big deal. Guessing when you make that face you are also shown the door.
wow.. i know a lot of guys in LA that are great engineers that did a lot of cable pulling on live gigs...

also know a lot over here on the east coast...


infact- the director in my college was an amazing live sound engineer, who was a wiz in pro tools...


my point being- why complain about the lack of studio gigs, and kids being fed up with not having anything to do in the studio... when they could be LEARNING **** on a live gig...

- why scrub a toilet when you can learn how to angle v-dosc main elements?
Old 11th November 2009
  #35
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmostynx View Post
wow.. i know a lot of guys in LA that are great engineers that did a lot of cable pulling on live gigs...

also know a lot over here on the east coast...


infact- the director in my college was an amazing live sound engineer, who was a wiz in pro tools...


my point being- why complain about the lack of studio gigs, and kids being fed up with not having anything to do in the studio... when they could be LEARNING **** on a live gig...

- why scrub a toilet when you can learn how to angle v-dosc main elements?

Sure there are plenty of people that started in Live audio and moved to the studio, just stating my experience that I have not ran into anybody that has. But like I stated before if you are learning live audio on a job that is not exactly learning the same field as studio work. It's defiantly not a bad way to possibly get your foot in the door somewhere.

I think we generally agree about your main point, and the reason I started this thread. People do need to quit complaining and find someone to learn from directly and not just rely on learning from GS or magazines.

Also just for the record, sure your director is a fine engineer, but being a wiz at PT does not make you a great engineer, it makes you a great pro tools operator. But that is just wording, maybe you meant that he was a wiz engineer and I misunderstood.
Old 11th November 2009
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Sure there are plenty of people that started in Live audio and moved to the studio, just stating my experience that I have not ran into anybody that has. But like I stated before if you are learning live audio on a job that is not exactly learning the same field as studio work. It's defiantly not a bad way to possibly get your foot in the door somewhere.

I think we generally agree about your main point, and the reason I started this thread. People do need to quit complaining and find someone to learn from directly and not just rely on learning from GS or magazines.

Also just for the record, sure your director is a fine engineer, but being a wiz at PT does not make you a great engineer, it makes you a great pro tools operator. But that is just wording, maybe you meant that he was a wiz engineer and I misunderstood.
I'm with you here - I know one engineer who is great both live and in the studio. To me whilst there's crossover, they're totally different disciplines. I have no interest at all in doing live sound, and I don't know anyone else apart from the guy I mentioned who do both to any level of competency.

Personally the last person I'd want to work with in the studio is the guy who spends 4 nights a week blasting his ears in a basement rock club. Plus it's going to take a long time (assuming you even have the talent) to work your way from engineering for terrible bands in small clubs to reasonable level stuff - and all that time you've spent working on crap bands live, you could have spent it working with them in the studio instead, where at least you'd be learning the right skill set.

If you want to play bass guitar, there's little point spending 10 years studying double bass. I really think it's bad advice to suggest you get cable pulling in a live environment, in order to get into the studio.
Old 11th November 2009
  #37
Gear Nut
 

I just did a HUGE HUGE rant on this as well as (warning its a long read)

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-...recording.html

I get so much garbage thrown at me and it is exactly because of what you are saying. Every week its the same thing, "we did this at our house, make it radio ready"

I just politely decline the work.

And on another note, (and I know tons of people will have major issues with this)
I started charging for my internships. I weed through the slack ass kids by doing an interview, making them sign a contract and then charging them. By charging they make sure they show up and learn. They feel like they have to get their moneys worth this way. Besides my hands on education is better than any 70k full sail education any day and at a tiny tiny fraction of the cost.
Old 11th November 2009
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

Interesting topic. I have been seeking out places in the Virginia/DC area to intern at. So far it has been incredibly difficult. I just want to put my time in and learn as much as possible. Unfortunately it seems that no one is interested in having an intern, which is fine...just sucks for me
Old 11th November 2009
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
b808's Avatar
 

same here.
Old 11th November 2009
  #40
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
And on another note, (and I know tons of people will have major issues with this)
I started charging for my internships. I weed through the slack ass kids by doing an interview, making them sign a contract and then charging them. By charging they make sure they show up and learn. They feel like they have to get their moneys worth this way. Besides my hands on education is better than any 70k full sail education any day and at a tiny tiny fraction of the cost.
Sorry but I do have to disagree completely with the charging of interns. Honestly I think it's a ridiculous idea. First are you a school or a studio? You might be making the intern situation worst for you by charging people. You will probably never find a great intern charging, I know personally when I started, I would work long hours and scrub whatever but I would of ran the other way if someone would of tried to charge me. I feel like with some straight forward questions in an interview you can separate the bad interns. Also then you can assign some less then desirable tasks for the first day, that will eliminate the remaining slackers.

Also in the big picture I find it personally unethical. Our field was built on apprenticeship. My mentors didn't charge me, and I would feel like I would be letting them down if I turned around and charged for the experience they gave to me. Mostly I feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot. How do you explain to your clients that the intern is paying to be there? Also feel like this would make interns more in the way because they have a "right" to be there because they are paying.

Also I feel your comparison to Fullsail is way off. First it's no where close to 70k, I don't know the exact numbers but know it is more then half of that. Also FS gives you a degree. I know in the big picture this is worthless, but defiantly important in some ways. For example if your intern moves elsewhere, and tries to get a job, will the new studio have any idea what your internship program is or what was covered. A second big difference, a lot of larger places are requiring to be recently graduated or in school to get your foot in the door with an internship and not any internship, an internship that could pay in the future. The reason being is for insurance reasons, if the intern blows something up they are covered by the school.

Just saying you might want to reexamine your policy, personally I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.
Old 11th November 2009
  #41
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
I get so much garbage thrown at me and it is exactly because of what you are saying. Every week its the same thing, "we did this at our house, make it radio ready"

I just politely decline the work.
Cool, give them my link.
Old 11th November 2009
  #42
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Only teaching I ever had was gearslutz and that was mostly gear, I had been recording for 10 years before I met GS, the site gave a new sound with the high end tool talk here, also it broke my wallet.
I did have professional video training for a few years, makes final cut a piece of cake.
NEVER WENT TO SCHOOL FOR ANY A/V
Old 12th November 2009
  #43
Here for the gear
 

I also completely disagree with charging interns. It is a practice that, to me, is enacted by people who themselves didn't intern or learn under someone. Which leads back to the origin of this thread. I totally agree with the importance of learning under someone or at the least being an intern and seeing how stuff can be done/works. I interned and got an assistant job recommendation because of it. Have worked my way up since then. I still am 'under someone' and it is still very much a learning process. I didn't get the chance to be the assistant to one of the top mixers on earth, but not very many do. I have however had the opportunity to meet and befriend many talented people who never have a problem answering a question or providing advice - technical, financial, creative or otherwise. I wouldn't be in the position I'm in if I didn't work for free, do whatever they asked and make a point of showing that I was interested, willing and a hard worker. I think in any field an education is the starting point, but attitude and willingness is the catalyst.
That said. Just because you didn't intern or work under someone for years doesn't mean you are not talented and doing things 'right'. For those who didn't intern or assist and are at the point where you want an assistant or intern a few well thought out questions (not a dick measuring contest of experience, they're applying for an internship lets not forget) and a brief trial period will weed out those you should avoid. Then treat them as you would like to have been treated in that position. NO they are gonna edit or dial in sounds, but have them do routine sh*t, get food, some cleaning, and gradually introduce audio tasks so they don't feel wronged and you just might give the world one less angry GS poster whining about how they were screwed over and propagating stupid arguments and audio myth... but fortunately have moved on and are now providing RADIO QUALITY MIXES... on their mbox....
Old 12th November 2009
  #44
Gear Nut
 
nicholassss's Avatar
 

i would love to intern somewhere, but it seems like everyone wants college recording tech grads or trade school grads. but after one semester i realized the college recording stuff was a joke. so my only option would be to go to an actual recording tech school but for personal reasons i'm not willing to relocate. so i'm stuck doing demos with an 003 unless theres some avenue i've not yet discovered.
Old 12th November 2009
  #45
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholassss View Post
i would love to intern somewhere, but it seems like everyone wants college recording tech grads or trade school grads. but after one semester i realized the college recording stuff was a joke. so my only option would be to go to an actual recording tech school but for personal reasons i'm not willing to relocate. so i'm stuck doing demos with an 003 unless theres some avenue i've not yet discovered.
Nothing wrong with education, it can only help. At the same time you will still need to do an internship after you graduate. Hope something turns up for you. Just be persistent but not annoying, if you know what I mean. As in if you send someone a resume ALWAYS do a follow up call a couple days later.
Old 12th November 2009
  #46
Lives for gear
 
xmostynx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Sure there are plenty of people that started in Live audio and moved to the studio, just stating my experience that I have not ran into anybody that has. But like I stated before if you are learning live audio on a job that is not exactly learning the same field as studio work. It's defiantly not a bad way to possibly get your foot in the door somewhere.

I think we generally agree about your main point, and the reason I started this thread. People do need to quit complaining and find someone to learn from directly and not just rely on learning from GS or magazines.

Also just for the record, sure your director is a fine engineer, but being a wiz at PT does not make you a great engineer, it makes you a great pro tools operator. But that is just wording, maybe you meant that he was a wiz engineer and I misunderstood.
wiz engineer, drummer and amazing live sound engineer.

we are speaking of 2 different worlds.

but we are speaking of the same principals, the same physics, and the same goal- to make something sound good- in the studio we are preserving it, so you must also understand your medium- in the live world, its for the moment, so you must understand the moment-


we are placing mics, listening, and utilizing tools to accomplish a main goal- that is the same- to make it sound good.

if you think i'm sitting in a basement banging my head off at 112dB your crazy.

there are plenty of really good shows to work on, and plenty of venues that allow comfortable listening levels.

there is also nothing like a huge rock show.

a few rock shows may shorten your career a bit, but its an experience- in all aspects of the word.


in my eyes- if you can't hang out with the live guys, how are you going to handle the bands crazy managers, their attitudes, and the guys moving the gear in and out of your studio.

if you can't make a kickdrum sound good on a stage- how can you do it in the studio?

what exactly are you listening for that your not listening for in one room or a stage?

your using your ears to draw conclusions...

don't get me wrong these are WIDE generalizations...
but in the end- if you can't make something sound good on an api desk in a good room- you probably can't do it on a M7 in a arena... or vice versa-

my .02
Old 12th November 2009
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
***Disclaimer Do not take this post personally, I am not talking about you personally, this is the moan zone. So don't get your panties in a knot about it*****

You know what has me moaning these days, the decline of appreciation for apprenticeship in our business these days. I read so many threads about how interning is being taken advantage of and what not. Yes there are circumstances when people take advantage of interns but then it is not a professional internship. What originally attracted me to our business was how it was a trade and apprenticeship was a big part of that. Because of this I wanted to learn from the best, so you know what I did. I packed up and moved to LA, lived in a very shady place, ate very little and got to watch and learn from the best.

I see very few aspiring engineers here seeking out a mentor. Way more seem to have the attitude that after reading GS for a year they know everything. At the same time they have never stepped into a "professional" studio or seen a professional's workflow. Next thing you know they are charging $50 a mix and spreading the same myths as everyone else and everyone wonders about the decline in sound quality. Guess to sum up my post, if you are a bedroom warrior that thinks they are "pro" and have never been in a real studio or assisted a much more experienced engineer, you need to get out and do so. You will realize you know much less then you think. There is a lot of info on GS but it is only part of the story.

as a former intern , assistant and later 'engineer' at a pro studio, I can say with the way thing work today it's not as big o deal. The DAW all the information available less expensive highend gear you can easily learn at home.
There are as many bad demos that come out of home studios as they do pro rooms. And the opposite.

I found that working as an intern and then as an assistant was just all about getting pushed around and dealing with the engineers ego trip. I learned way more on my own that I did from assisting even back in the day when there were like zero resources available and pro gear was out of reach$$$. Now you can get a prosetup for 6-7k, back when I started 50k minimum for a pro setup.

Engineering is so easy now with the DAW. It's a joke in some aspects of recording now. Sure you still need to identify problems w/ frequencies and be able to fix problems swiftly by eq or mic placement but other than that what else is there now that the DAW exists? Half the problems you used to half to deal with do not exist or are simply easier to deal with now thanks to DAWs and plugin technology. Not to mention you can get on a Mess board and ask advice. Sure 90% of it is wrong but you can get lucky 10% of the time and get some solid guidance.

My problem was when I interned in the early 80's I worked with all these alternative post punk guys. I was into metal classical and polished hard rock like Aerosmith. These guys didn't have a clue how to 'produce' .They were cutting garage rock. I was suppose to sound bad. My point is you have to intern at a well rounded studio to really learn anything.
A room that one day will do a Metal thing and the next day track a Band with a horn section to a string quartet to
a simple 4 piece rock band. Early on you need diversity to learn and to understand the different approaches
but it can be hard to get into rooms like this. Lots of competition.

I have to admit from time to time I hit the work in progress section on GS and have to say more often than not I am very impressed. Lot's of these guys are your newbie set taught types and they are making some good recording all on their own. On the other hand I visit a few loudmouth GS'ers Myspace pages and hear mediocrity but when you read their posts everyday they act like they are the king. But their mixes are blah. Funny lot of big names who people seem to be respected here you listen and scratch your head ? grain of salt I guess..

My advice to a new engineer is good gear matters, second if you are going for a certain sound don't stop till you get it.
Throwing a mic in front of a gtr amp and getting a pro sound as not hard same with drums. It all the stuff you have to do before and after that takes the skill.. Tuning, the room the amp the kit the gear etc......... crap in crap out is the first rule
last rule is set a sight on a certain texture and go for it. Don't give in until you get it. As the years go buy you ll then be able to identify what gear and way you use it to get any sound at any time swiftly.

Do it some day. hit the work in progress forum , listen with an open mind and then vistit some my space pages of the
'know it alls here' and then put 2 and 2 together it will not equal 4........
Old 12th November 2009
  #48
Gear Nut
 

DICK,
Yeah I hear you and I know a ton of people may feel the way you do. I know its hard to believe but it has actually worked out wonderfully. I have had MY BEST interns after I went to this policy about 2 years ago. You do have some valid points however I have tried both ways and the latter works the best for us.

JHASET

Way off base. I actually interned myself under 3 different studio about 15 or more years ago. So your point of someone charging like me not being taught it dead wrong in my case.
I actually hired one of my best interns after the fact.

Also on another note my interns don't clean toilets and get food, they work,doing the boring stuff at first but by the end they are tracking for me while i just produce. Once in a while they take out the trash or make a food run But we treat them well. After the sessions I always stay and answer any questions they may have had during the sessions. They know not to just ask random questions when the clients are working and they always stay out of the way unless we ask them to do something.

Like i said I know its a very controversial subject and i respect all of your opinions. I can only do what works best for me.
There was a post on here years ago about our studio doing this and a couple of our former interns actually chimed in and said they loved it and got so much from it, one of them went off to full sail after the internship and said it was just very average at best. They didnt even get into half the stuff we taught them.
I once had an intern that came from full sail. He was worthless, the guy didnt even know what mics he was using, or what inputs he was in, No clue on the patchbay. YES that basic. stuff he was clueless.

I think the original post for this was DEAD ON. Since when did buying a DAW make you an engineer overnight?

I think i am going to pick up a few wrenches tomorrow (thursday) so i can be a mechanic on saturday. Then Sunday I will buy a Stethoscope and be doctor on monday.. SAME CONCEPT.....
Old 12th November 2009
  #49
Gear Nut
 
nicholassss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Nothing wrong with education, it can only help. At the same time you will still need to do an internship after you graduate. Hope something turns up for you. Just be persistent but not annoying, if you know what I mean. As in if you send someone a resume ALWAYS do a follow up call a couple days later.

yeah, i understand completely, but going to college, it was 2 years, only 3 of 4 semester ad an actual recording anything class, everything else was music and performance, and being a terrible musician as far as reading music playing anything more than guitar or basic keys it was incredibly frustrating and discouraging.

any studio owners have advice on resumes and/or portfolios?
Old 15th November 2009
  #50
teo
Lives for gear
 
teo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post

And on another note, (and I know tons of people will have major issues with this)
I started charging for my internships. I weed through the slack ass kids by doing an interview, making them sign a contract and then charging them. By charging they make sure they show up and learn. They feel like they have to get their moneys worth this way. Besides my hands on education is better than any 70k full sail education any day and at a tiny tiny fraction of the cost.
This is so ****ed up that is beyond being ****ed up.I'm totally with you on it being money well spent instead of going to FullSail,but working for free is bad enuogh,paying to work can't be right. And it's more likely to get you rich kids just out of fullsail, not that there's anything wrong with being rich...
Old 17th November 2009
  #51
Gear Nut
 

TEO
Yes it does get a bunch of rich kids trying to intern for sure. But it also gets those kids that just couldn't swing the cost of full sail and now can get a great eduction for a fraction of the costs. It works both ways.
Remember I have tried both ways, and this has been a tried and true method for me for a couple years now and as I said it works for me. May not work for you or some other people but it sure has worked well at my studio.
I can usually tell the rich snob kids pretty quick and weed them out fairly fast.
Old 18th November 2009
  #52
teo
Lives for gear
 
teo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
TEO
Yes it does get a bunch of rich kids trying to intern for sure. But it also gets those kids that just couldn't swing the cost of full sail and now can get a great eduction for a fraction of the costs. It works both ways.
Remember I have tried both ways, and this has been a tried and true method for me for a couple years now and as I said it works for me. May not work for you or some other people but it sure has worked well at my studio.
I can usually tell the rich snob kids pretty quick and weed them out fairly fast.
I understand that it works for you, and believe that is mostly well meant.

All I'm saying is that you could devise better ways of selecting interns than have them pay for their internship. Having people pay to work just suond bad karma to me. At the very least, it should be free, even though I think that if somebody is doing anything usefull (from coiling cables to cleaning the toilet), he deserves to get paid something (after a month trial period).
Old 18th November 2009
  #53
Gear Nut
 

TEO
Basically i don't see it being any different than what i do for the local college here.
I do a 16 week credited course through a college , the kids pay tons of cash to learn and they have to work when they go to school to make a grade. Hence they are paying to work.
When they intern with me they pay a fraction of the cost, get to do it twice as long and get hands on in the real world. Seems like a great deal to me.
When they go out to another studio to get a job, i offer my recommendation. Which is much more valuable than any stupid degree to local bigger studios around here.
The degrees places like full sail give out are useless. i know ALOT of studio owners and to be totally honest they tend to stay away from kids that went to full sail. They basically buy the degree, doesn't matter how good or bad they are as long as they got the cash.
i can give you horror stories i have seen from kids at full sail. Not to say they are all bad but it almost hurts your job chance after the fact to go there.
My method works perfect for my situation, maybe not in yours or some others and I have no issue with that.
As fas as bad karma cant say i have had any. i feel I am helping these kids WAY more than taking their money or hurting them. Ask them and they will tell you the same, Hell I even helped a few get real deal jobs after the fact.
Old 18th November 2009
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Well, my teaching qualifications are
A Graduated from AIM myself, I have been teaching recording and other stuff at a local college for well over 6 years, I have owned and operated a studio for over 10 years, and I have learned and interned for over 5 years at major studios.
If that is not qualification enough what do you feel is qualified?
I am one of the few people in the world that has never had a job that was non music related in my life.
i think i am qualified for sure.
This actually has been one of the best things we have ever done regarding interns.
I know quite a few studio owners down south who have also went to this method. I have no issues with other ways people go about it but once again this really works great for us. Its not like were making a fortune on this. Its fairly cheap and its not even about the extra cash for me. I make what an intern pays for 6 months in two days. Its just a way to get serious kids.
Old 19th November 2009
  #55
Gear Addict
 
emreyazgin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
***Disclaimer Do not take this post personally, I am not talking about you personally, this is the moan zone. So don't get your panties in a knot about it*****

You know what has me moaning these days, the decline of appreciation for apprenticeship in our business these days. I read so many threads about how interning is being taken advantage of and what not. Yes there are circumstances when people take advantage of interns but then it is not a professional internship. What originally attracted me to our business was how it was a trade and apprenticeship was a big part of that. Because of this I wanted to learn from the best, so you know what I did. I packed up and moved to LA, lived in a very shady place, ate very little and got to watch and learn from the best.

I see very few aspiring engineers here seeking out a mentor. Way more seem to have the attitude that after reading GS for a year they know everything. At the same time they have never stepped into a "professional" studio or seen a professional's workflow. Next thing you know they are charging $50 a mix and spreading the same myths as everyone else and everyone wonders about the decline in sound quality. Guess to sum up my post, if you are a bedroom warrior that thinks they are "pro" and have never been in a real studio or assisted a much more experienced engineer, you need to get out and do so. You will realize you know much less then you think. There is a lot of info on GS but it is only part of the story.
Big studios are closing down, big producers are in their home studios trying to earn 1/5th of what they were doing in 80s and music is changing..

No more teaboy > assistant > engineer > producer route...I think people should just get over this thought...There are lots of brilliant producers and engineers I know who work with great bands and great projects and they never assisted or interned...
Old 19th November 2009
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Storyville's Avatar
I'm at a phase in my career where I'm check to check, but entirely off of music money. Most of which is engineering, and a small amount of gigging on the side.

I am the in-house engineer at PhillySoulMan's studio. I have two interns.

If I see a chance to LEARN something from someone who knows more than me. I take it. Period. Paid or unpaid, knowledge is priceless. When I do my own music, I still hire other engineers. I could do anything I want for no cost, but I hire other engineers that I respect and admire because I learn SO much from how they approach my music. Being in the company of someone who knows how to do it is absolutely irreplaceable.

It's not the days of apprenticeship anymore. That's a terrible loss to our community. How many engineers under thirty can work a tape machine? I can't. I'd have to be stupid not to take any chance I can get to work with someone who can.

Do I believe in charging interns. **** no. But, I understand it if the payoff is legit. In a way, what I do is worse. I fire em. Come on my time and don't value it? Bye, best of luck, you'll need it.

I learn more from one session with a more experienced engineer than twenty sessions on my own. If for nothing else, that engineer can at least validate what my ear is telling me.

PS. I started doing live sound. It pays less, but it pays more often. And if you can handle live sound stress, studio work is not that tough.

Just my experience.
Old 19th November 2009
  #57
Gear Nut
 

Greener

I do pay my workers, my official engineers are paid with money, the interns are paid with something that is more valuable to them at the current time in their career, Knowledge.
Its ok that we disagree. As i mentioned when I first wrote this I knew many would disagree.
Old 19th November 2009
  #58
teo
Lives for gear
 
teo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AURORA4DTH View Post
I do pay my workers, my official engineers are paid with money, the interns are paid with something that is more valuable to them at the current time in their career, Knowledge.
Its ok that we disagree. As i mentioned when I first wrote this I knew many would disagree.
We agree to disagree then...
Old 22nd November 2009
  #59
Lives for gear
 
rumimusic's Avatar
 

this is the same mentality that spawns 'pay to play' promotion where promoters take advantage of young bands by forcing them to sell a minimum number of overpriced tickets just to play a show. It's ridiculous. I've spent a good amount of time interning and certain mentors would buy me lunch, some wouldn't, some would work me 18 hour days, some would be shorter. Some would be mostly observation, some i'd be tracking, editing, assisting with the mix, etc. Never have I ever come across someone who charges their interns, and if you really think that's working out well then i say shame on you sir. And by the way... i have close friends who went to full sail that do impressive work on the regular and are extremely talented. I also went to an audio trade school and learned many wonderful things that have helped greatly throughout my so far short but eventful (and successful) career in this industry.

Anyways, i wouldn't brag to much about charging your interns, at least not around hear.
Old 22nd November 2009
  #60
Lives for gear
 
rumimusic's Avatar
 

i'd like to add that i do agree alot of clowns come from audio schools...
but this has more to do with the individual than the actual education.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
withintheflux / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
4
Solar / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
17

Forum Jump
Forum Jump