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Has Paypal frozen YOUR funds?
Old 16th June 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
antoniosolo's Avatar
 

Has Paypal frozen YOUR funds?

"Again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused regarding this matter.
While we understand you may not be satisfied with this response, we have
reviewed your account and the matter thoroughly and we feel that we have
taken the appropriate actions or provided ample information to address
your concerns. Please be advised that further contacts regarding this
matter will not change the outcome or our response.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again
at [email protected]."


THIS IS THE RESPONSE THAT I GOT FROM PAYPAL LONG AFTER THE COMPLETED SALE (I sent a copy of my complaint I faxed to the US Attorney General). DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A COMPANY THAT DESERVES TO EXIST IN AMERICA?

Please spend 5 minutes filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) if this has been done to you.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en

The current Administration of the USA is taking more serious our rights in trying to keep the leeches from feeding as they have on its citizens while others live lavishly. Even a plane that skids across the Hudson has AIG refusing to pay for the crash!!!!!! Where are we??????????
Old 16th June 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
iluvatar's Avatar
 

Take all of your money out of the account as soon as it comes in. If they issue a chargeback to the buyer, you'll have a negative balance and the account will get frozen & sent to collections, but you won't actually be out the money.

-Dan.
Old 17th June 2009
  #3
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

I have been there for the past 60 freaking days. A guy bought something from me and did a freaking chargeback for no reason, said they were shipping damage, Mfg said they were no damage when it was sent for repair, buyer wanted a bunch of new stuff replaced on the unit for the hell of it, get this....... bought the item Feb 25th, did a chargeback April 10th......this was ample time for him to f*ck up the unit which he did and then did a chargeback, glad I had insurance and a dumb ass person from the Courier inspector that went to look at the so called damage???
Takes 80 days for finalize.....I sold to a ebayer that had 1 feedback and that was me......bad move.
I'm waiting........I have the $$$ to make my paypal even but will not until they settle this issue in my favor.

I have both elite ebay and Gearslutz feedback, I do not deserve this.........I have no choice.
Old 17th June 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
voicegenius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
I have been there for the past 60 freaking days. A guy bought something from me and did a freaking chargeback for no reason, said they were shipping damage, Mfg said they were no damage when it was sent for repair, buyer wanted a bunch of new stuff replaced on the unit for the hell of it, get this....... bought the item Feb 25th, did a chargeback April 10th......this was ample time for him to f*ck up the unit which he did and then did a chargeback, glad I had insurance and a dumb ass person from the Courier inspector that went to look at the so called damage???
Takes 80 days for finalize.....I sold to a ebayer that had 1 feedback and that was me......bad move.
I'm waiting........I have the $$$ to make my paypal even but will not until they settle this issue in my favor.

I have both elite ebay and Gearslutz feedback, I do not deserve this.........I have no choice.
Ditto... I fuccking HATE Paypal now... Got a damn chargeback!


You have to have a certain number of feedback for them to lift that hold ****...
Old 17th June 2009
  #5
Gear Addict
Lost just over $1000 in an paypal sale where the buyer complained about a product being not as described. I sent paypal 2 x independent certified valuations from registered companies on the item and all the other guy had was vague hearsays with no names, phone number or contacts of people he spoke to. I lost out yesterday and they have charged my account for the money.
Luckily the account was empty - alwasy keep an empty account.
but I guess they will just access my bank account for the funds - can they do that?
The goods are in transit back to me - so he says so at least Iwill be able to resell but this have taken since April to sort out.
Old 17th June 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
bobsandifer's Avatar
 

I have been scammed twice with the old....."item damaged now I want my money back" crap. Each time PayPal did not even listen to my side of the story even though I have 100% feedback on Ebay AND have ran thousands of transactions as a retailer with my paypal account.

They refund the money then I have to fight to try and get the item back....which I never have.

What have I learned by all of this?
1. Move money out of paypal immediately after transaction until all is clear.
2. If I find something on ebay I would like to purchase I have the transaction take place outside of ebay. I always end up buying the item for MUCH less.
3.Try to avoid taking ANY money through paypal if at all possible.

Did I mention that PAYPAL and EBAY are the devil? THE DEVIL !
Old 17th June 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
voicegenius's Avatar
 

Where's the alternative to Paypal?!?!?
Old 17th June 2009
  #8
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Trouble is, paypal has my ebay shut down as well, altho nothing is wrong with ebay, paypal has the rights to shut it down. Don't even try another paypal user ID, they will catch it and shut it down as well...... if you don't pay your account it will go against your credit and collections. Pissed me off.
They are suppose to protect our ass, why 80 ****ing days ?
80 days is for you and the buyer to work things out is all it is,. after that then they make the decisions....What's the cool thing with my deal, the Mfg has the product and will not ship it to either party no matter who is paying, #1.... I called and got the RA # and had the buyer ship it off for so called repair, I also have a claim with the Courier so they honored that but will not ship to either, buyer has told the Mfg if they ship back to me he will file a lawsuit, can you see someone filling a lawsuit for 1500.00 3K miles away ? The lawyer and fees would cost him out the ass.
Here is the trouble,
1.He did a chargeback << that means he wants his money back? RIGHT ?
2. He told paypal the unit is still his. LMAOROTF
3. He has a temp hold for 1500.00 with Amex
4. I have a 1500.00 minus paypal account.
5. Mfg (repair) has the item that has been repaired for weeks and will not ship to either buyer or shipper.
6. Trouble is, either one of us has the unit and no funds back either. FU^KED UP FROM HELL......

alternative to Paypal?!?!? PROPAY......
Did I mention that PAYPAL and EBAY are the devil? THE DEVIL ! Yes they are Lucifer.com
Lucky I have Gearslutz that trust me and send me money orders at this time, its good to have a great rating and alot of good feedback on GS, I'm a honest seller and I would not have it any other way.
Old 17th June 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
deuc647's Avatar
yeah the only safe alternative i think is money order. Paypal held my money for 21 days, i was superpissed, i have 100 on ebay and like 1 on itrader. Paypal is bull**** now i refuse to deal with them anymore.
Old 17th June 2009
  #10
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
yeah the only safe alternative i think is money order. Paypal held my money for 21 days, i was superpissed, i have 100 on ebay and like 1 on itrader. Paypal is bull**** now i refuse to deal with them anymore.
I know 21 is bad but you lucked out, they told me 80 days and if it did not come back in my favor they would dispute it another 80 days........damn when does the saga end ?
Old 18th June 2009
  #11
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

I lost my dispute today with paypal, reason? the customer does not have his item....guess what I do not either.....paypal is getting worse and paypal says its the banks issue, its out of their hands......wow.... glad I had a ton of insurance.
Old 19th June 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 
JustinAiken's Avatar
 

I've been randomly frozen twice (I also have 100 percent feedback)

I don't use ebay any more, and I'm leaning towards never using PP again either.
Old 19th June 2009
  #13
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinAiken View Post
I've been randomly frozen twice (I also have 100 percent feedback)

I don't use ebay any more, and I'm leaning towards never using PP again either.
I understand, I think I have near 400 perfect transactions on ebay with perfect feedback and this is what happens. I don't care if I did get 90 percent of my money back with insurance, the issue is that paypal fu*ks people out of money constant and I'm sick of it.
There rules like seller protection mean nothing, I told them to take those off the website because they were a lie.

btw, with my case closed they made the comment "we are still fighting for your funds or the unit".......I said yeah right, dream on.
Old 19th June 2009
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
I don't know all the inns and outs of paypal, but it would seem to me that if you list a return policy on your website or ebay page that it would cover you. Would it not??
Old 19th June 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
voicegenius's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
I don't know all the inns and outs of paypal, but it would seem to me that if you list a return policy on your website or ebay page that it would cover you. Would it not??
I DID and STILL those asswipes jacked me! Where's "Googlepay" when you need it?
Old 19th June 2009
  #16
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
I don't know all the inns and outs of paypal, but it would seem to me that if you list a return policy on your website or ebay page that it would cover you. Would it not??
Mine was about a fake damage in shipping and went on from there.....Like I said I was lucky and recovered most all my money in insurance but I'm out for more, I will get satisfaction....
Old 21st June 2009
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Unfortunately, I don't think it matters who you use these days, as a merchant chargebacks are a way of life and people try to use them to scam you.

Whether you use Paypal or another payment engine the customer can initiate a chargeback and the credit card companies always take the customer's side until you prove them wrong. We had a similar case where a customer had taken posession of almost $3k worth of goods. Customer ordered one wrong part, which we offered to take back with a restocking fee since it wasn't our fault. Customer then decides to launch a chargeback with VISA. While it took almost two weeks to get our money back, we won. The reason, we had proof of shippping.

Here are some things we've learned from selling over the internet.

1) Customer has to buy shipping insurance and they are responsible for the claim. The minute you get involved you're asking for trouble. If it arrives broken the customer needs to file the claim.

2) Make sure that you get a signature for delivery. This only costs a few bucks and Paypal as well as the credit card companies look at this as a key factor.

3) Keep every single piece of correspondence so that you have even more proof.

4) Have a detailed refund policy for the transaction. E.g. no refunds on special order items. Also include the bit above about shipping insurance being the responsibility of the buyer.

Chargebacks suck but if you mitigate the risks, then it shouldn't end painfully.
Old 21st June 2009
  #18
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBaptista68 View Post
Unfortunately, I don't think it matters who you use these days, as a merchant chargebacks are a way of life and people try to use them to scam you.

Whether you use Paypal or another payment engine the customer can initiate a chargeback and the credit card companies always take the customer's side until you prove them wrong. We had a similar case where a customer had taken posession of almost $3k worth of goods. Customer ordered one wrong part, which we offered to take back with a restocking fee since it wasn't our fault. Customer then decides to launch a chargeback with VISA. While it took almost two weeks to get our money back, we won. The reason, we had proof of shippping.

Here are some things we've learned from selling over the internet.

1) Customer has to buy shipping insurance and they are responsible for the claim. The minute you get involved you're asking for trouble. If it arrives broken the customer needs to file the claim.

2) Make sure that you get a signature for delivery. This only costs a few bucks and Paypal as well as the credit card companies look at this as a key factor.

3) Keep every single piece of correspondence so that you have even more proof.

4) Have a detailed refund policy for the transaction. E.g. no refunds on special order items. Also include the bit above about shipping insurance being the responsibility of the buyer.

Chargebacks suck but if you mitigate the risks, then it shouldn't end painfully.
Hmm...... I did 1 through 3 and the buyer still won, again either of us has the product and the case is closed. I cannot say it enough, thank god for insurance, I almost broke even.
Old 22nd June 2009
  #19
OJS
Gear Maniac
 
OJS's Avatar
I am currently having a similar experience with Paypal. I sold an expensive Lucid converter to an American guy on Ebay. He paid me instantly and asked me to deliver the item to another address because he wanted to give it as a present to his son. Since the guy had already paid me, I thought I'd do him this favor.
Now the buyer claims never to have bought the item. He says a third person hacked his EBay and Paypal account. Paypal investigated the matter and concluded I was RIGHT. But then the buyer turned to plan B and did a chargeback. Now, all of a sudden Paypal says I violated the rules by delivering the item to another address and therefor cannot get any seller protection. I provided every email, tracking #, everything to Paypal. Why can't they keep their back straight as soon as a credit card company comes along with chargebacks? This way they are facilitating fraud through Ebay.

The thing that struck me most is: If they decided in my favor in the first place, they should give me seller protection in case of a chargeback, shouldn't they?

Or am I missing something here?
Old 23rd June 2009
  #20
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OJS View Post
I am currently having a similar experience with Paypal. I sold an expensive Lucid converter to an American guy on Ebay. He paid me instantly and asked me to deliver the item to another address because he wanted to give it as a present to his son. Since the guy had already paid me, I thought I'd do him this favor.
Now the buyer claims never to have bought the item. He says a third person hacked his EBay and Paypal account. Paypal investigated the matter and concluded I was RIGHT. But then the buyer turned to plan B and did a chargeback. Now, all of a sudden Paypal says I violated the rules by delivering the item to another address and therefor cannot get any seller protection. I provided every email, tracking #, everything to Paypal. Why can't they keep their back straight as soon as a credit card company comes along with chargebacks? This way they are facilitating fraud through Ebay.

The thing that struck me most is: If they decided in my favor in the first place, they should give me seller protection in case of a chargeback, shouldn't they?

Or am I missing something here?
Only ship to confirmed address which must be the same as he paid with are you are in trouble......If someone ask me to ship to different address ? I say Hell NO !!! and if that is not good enough I will send there money back, I have did it many times...
Old 24th June 2009
  #21
Shipper is responsible for making claim

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBaptista68 View Post
1) Customer has to buy shipping insurance and they are responsible for the claim. The minute you get involved you're asking for trouble. If it arrives broken the customer needs to file the claim.
As a buyer, I've had mostly good dealings with eBay/PayPal (same company) My troubles have been with damaged arrivals. The box is crushed, or punctured and the unit inside may or may not fire up. UPS and FEDEX consider the shipper the only person with the right to make a claim, because he is the person who paid them, even though I had to pay for shipping in my purchase. This is a nuisance at least and a game-stopper at worst if the shipper won't cooperate.

So, the photos of all six sides of the boxes, the packing inside and the apparent damage to the unit, or a pro-forma repair invoice from the repair shop, have all to be sent back to the shipper (if he's decent enough to identify himself with a real name and address) and you wait patiently for a response/check. Both carriers limit their payout to $100 plus cost of shipping if the shipper won't or forgets to increase the insured value, which you may have already paid him!! So I've lost $50 or 60 after the repairs are done and I've paid for shipping both ways. Typically this is a 3 month exercise and PayPal have been less than helpful.

Purchases of really expensive stuff, schoeps/manley, are, in my view, best conducted by your bank officer. Twice I have arranged with the seller to be at his phone when my bank officer calls. The bank guy then obtains the account details from the shipper or his bank officer and the two bankers do a wire transfer at my expense. I have no knowledge of the seller's account and don't need it. If the seller stiffs me then my banker is a witness to a fraud and the local police will be called in. The seller is informed by his bank within minutes that funds have arrived and will call me with tracking details.
The sale is contingent upon the gear arriving in working "as-described" condition, no "vintage electronic as-is" bullshxx. It is amazing to me that Manley and Millennia repairs have been consistently less than half of what Focusrite or Presonus have charged.

I had some scamster emails just after I agreed a price and details with Vintage King in 2007 and their bank confirmed with my bank that they were aware of the fictitious bank asking for "confirmation" data. The two bankers did the wire transfer and I never had anymore interference. Just how these creeps learned/intercepted the info of my sale in the first place was never revealed - just beware plain text on the Internet I guess.
Old 24th June 2009
  #22
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audibell View Post
As a buyer, I've had mostly good dealings with eBay/PayPal (same company) My troubles have been with damaged arrivals. The box is crushed, or punctured and the unit inside may or may not fire up. UPS and FEDEX consider the shipper the only person with the right to make a claim, because he is the person who paid them, even though I had to pay for shipping in my purchase. This is a nuisance at least and a game-stopper at worst if the shipper won't cooperate.
If it had not been like this I would be out $1600.00, same goes when you call UPS or Fedex about a claim (updates, questions), they will only talk with the shipper ONLY !!!
Old 2nd July 2009
  #23
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Update, the buyer did get his chargeback, reason ? he did not have his item, however I did not either.......Today I got the item back as new.....thank god this is over....
Old 2nd July 2009
  #24
Gear Addict
 

I had paypal freeze my account a few months back

Got it sorted by systematically showing the buyer why he was totally wrong to claim the item not as described- but it brought home how with ebay/paypal, you are basically at the mercy of morons at best and thieves at worst

Haven't sold a thing on there since...and I used to turn over a tidy amount. It's just not worth the stress
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