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Should Sly Gear Pimps be allowed to post their opinions on public forums?
Old 29th July 2005
  #31
Here for the gear
 

Where did you get the idea about me being unhappy here, jules? I may be opinionated but it doesn't mean I'm unhappy. If I was to judge you by your posts, you sound very boring. People have to take a bit of critism or opinions as well if they're going to dish it out as well.
Old 29th July 2005
  #32
Goodbye Baman.
Old 31st July 2005
  #33
Lives for gear
 
spectacular g's Avatar
sschwisshguurrgllleswhooossshh

can you name that sound?
Old 31st July 2005
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
cultureofgreed's Avatar
 

As a Ex-Pimp for Thoroughbred Music (RIP) for 5 years I will tell ya that when push comes to shove commission pimps push the product with the most OC (over cost) regardless of what we think of it. The only time pimps don't is when we know the product is a rubber ball, in other words it keeps bouncing back into the store. The salesman that didn't do this didn't last very long, or changed their tune because their checks were so small they couldn't live.

The reason why this happens? Most of the time the customers don't know the difference between crap and sweetness, because if they did they wouldn't be asking for my opinion in the first place. Its a completely unethical but the salesman always has "plausable deniability" to fall back on. "It didn't work out for ya? Lets try something different". fuuck

It sucked, and its one of the reasons I don't peddle gear anymore.
Old 31st July 2005
  #35
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Just out of curiosity, how important are forums for manufactureres ? .....
For me, this forum (and a few others) are very important. But, it's not about trying to sell gear to forum members, it's about learning what people in the industry want from the equipment they may purchase in the future. Ideas for new "boxes" are best discovered from what working engineers desire, not just what the designer thinks they should have. Even if I was not a member of this forum, I would probably still read it.

An added bonus to all this is I am also able to share my technical knowledge with those seeking help.

Cheers
Tim.
Old 31st July 2005
  #36
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baman
...If I was to judge you by your posts, you sound very boring...
OOOOps - WRONG AGAIN! Having had the pleasure of meeting Jules, "boring" is not the word that springs to mind!

heh heh heh heh heh
Old 31st July 2005
  #37
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baman
Nathan quickly places a link in regards to posts he knows nothing off, just so he looks like the little dibber dobber ass kissing kid from a kindergarten pre school. He hears some fabricated crap from Michal and without validation automatically sides the accusation because hes a little dealer bitch.
I'm assuming that Jules' post above is saying this guy Baman has been banned, but having talked with Nathan on a semi-regular basis (most of us guys talk to each other and are on friendly terms) and knowing how he operates nobody could be more wrong to characterize him this way. Also, I don't know why anyone would come along and say things like "little dealer bitch" that doesn't just have a personal hard on for somebody, which seems to be the case here.

Fletcher has been mentioned here as well and we think the world of him and his operation. He has forgotten more about vintage gear than I and most will ever know and I don't pretend to know about all that stuff either! Should Fletcher be silenced or limited in talk? Come on, I think we all know the answer to that.

I think that as long as we dealers are members of the community and behave as such there should be no issues. We all recommend gear that we don't sell on a regular basis and I don't consider that to be a bragging right but just something that is becoming of an actual community member and expected from one human being to another. We as musician types are more emotionally attached to what we do, I certainly think selling gear is a million steps far away from the used car salesman stereotype.

War
Old 31st July 2005
  #38
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant
OOOOps - WRONG AGAIN! Having had the pleasure of meeting Jules, "boring" is not the word that springs to mind!

heh heh heh heh heh
Yeah and what's with his accent anyhow?



War
Old 31st July 2005
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant
For me, this forum (and a few others) are very important. But, it's not about trying to sell gear to forum members, it's about learning what people in the industry want from the equipment they may purchase in the future. Ideas for new "boxes" are best discovered from what working engineers desire, not just what the designer thinks they should have. Even if I was not a member of this forum, I would probably still read it.

An added bonus to all this is I am also able to share my technical knowledge with those seeking help.

Cheers
Tim.
Yep that's what I thought Tim. I'm sure you like to hear comments about your gear and how it's performing in the real world aswell.

Even though the slutz buy gear from time to time, I still think the real deal customers are the ones that don't even know about these forums and don't care. Most of them being in the main stream big guys. Mr. Wagener would be an exception, but really ? how many top guys or big studio owners check this forum often ? Our guest Moderators have done their thing and left. coming back with a post or two, but very rarely. I think they still use the word of month (what's that studio down the street using way of purchasing gear) don't know or they call up their pimps directly. I really doubt the big customers come in here to ask for suggestions on what to get, by I don't know.. maybe they use nicknames to do it more undercover : ) who knows...
Old 31st July 2005
  #40
Lives for gear
My feeling is that EVERYONE should be "allowed" to say ANYTHING,... ANYWHERE.

that's what works.

yopu can post something.
I can say that you have a vested interest in saying it.
Someone else can say I'm an idiot.
and so on...


you need to do your own dilligence as to who is worth listening to and who is not.
But it's not a good thing when some, often unknown, third party starts censoring.
Old 31st July 2005
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
My feeling is that EVERYONE should be "allowed" to say ANYTHING,... ANYWHERE.

that's what works.

yopu can post something.
I can say that you have a vested interest in saying it.
Someone else can say I'm an idiot.
and so on...


you need to do your own dilligence as to who is worth listening to and who is not.
But it's not a good thing when some, often unknown, third party starts censoring.
I believe you are aware that l I and the other moderators DO police the forum and that includes post deletion, editing and censorship.. But it is fairly rare..

There is quite a lot of behind the scenes PM'ing to do with personal attacks, inter company dirty laundry washing (not allowed) and other stuff that most of the sites users are unaware of on GS. I can tell you, almost 98% of this is so the site doesn't deteriorate into a mud slinging disaster.

Without at least SOME 'brakes' on what is permitted to post (on an adult orientated forum that allows photos & music to be displayed) can quickly turn to an off topic, off subject cesspit of name calling / hate / bigotry and worse. I can only imagine that the "censorship sucks" brigade must have a trusting nature of a 6 year old. Look around you there are MANY online communities like this one that thrive.. but they often have rules to keep discussion on track & to keep fights to a minimum.

Anyhow that's the situation here.. If folks think that 'stinks' - they should not hang out here.

Old 31st July 2005
  #42
Art
Gear Addict
 
Art's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
My feeling is that EVERYONE should be "allowed" to say ANYTHING,... ANYWHERE.

that's what works.

yopu can post something.
I can say that you have a vested interest in saying it.
Someone else can say I'm an idiot.
and so on...


you need to do your own dilligence as to who is worth listening to and who is not.
But it's not a good thing when some, often unknown, third party starts censoring.

Normally I would agree with this. However, when you have an individual who is clearly acting aggressively and resorting to name-calling, I think it is only fair to other forum members to block his posts. There has to be a certain level of respect between members. On a side note though, there is a dealer who posts frequently on GS, who is also on occasion extremely rude to other members (and other dealers especially), I think we all know who he is without mentioning any names. In the past it has made me quite uncomfortable in participating in threads where he is involved (but I do anyway and have mentioned my opinion of his behavior to him). So I do believe that policing is essential, but I am not sure that Baman was any ruder than many other members who frequently post.

Art
Old 31st July 2005
  #43
As I have said there is a complaints department here and always has been at

jules AT gearslutz.com

or via PM

Thanks
Old 31st July 2005
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
but I am not sure that Baman was any ruder than many other members who frequently post.

Art
I agree. It's a tough call on the moderators part though. If you had to ban everyone who was rude in times, you would end up with a empty forum. But if someone just joins for the sake of being rude then he is no good. Who ever he thinks he is, he needs to show some respect at first.

If you go into a bar you never been before and you are drunk and start insulting people, i'm sure you will be kicked out in 2 secs. But if you are a regular costumer who often is very polite, and you have one of those days where you get drunk and start insulting. I'm sure the owner or manager will try to have a talk to you first.. he will give you a second or third chance.
Old 31st July 2005
  #45
Well put...
Old 31st July 2005
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
Bosco's Avatar
 

The way I see it is dealers that post take ALOT of heat.

I am a dealer and as you can see I do not put a link to advertise this.I am a long time member with 50 something posts.The reason for so few posts is that I do not like all the debate.

I have seen post after post about Neve clones,comps,eq's,converters etc..that I just read for amusement.

I can say this I have been through and tested tons and tons of gear,you name it and I have probably ran signal through it with the exception of a few very rare box's.Jesus you talk about converters I am sitting in front of Prism's,Lavry's,Apogee's and Radar S Nyquist's at this very moment doing transfers from a 2' 8track 827 and a MM1200 2' 16 track.

I would love to post more but I do not have alot of time to do so and the follow up posts to defend your opinions just gets crazy.

People who buy gear from me call me on the phone and all my business is referral based,this way I am just plain old Bosco when I do post.

BT
Old 31st July 2005
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco

People who buy gear from me call me on the phone and all my business is referral based,this way I am just plain old Bosco when I do post.

BT
You don't need to post, but having a link would not hurt your business. I would definetly have a link if I where a pimp. It's a win win for both the pimp and the slut. Maybe you have better deals than the others.. I would like to know : )
Old 1st August 2005
  #48
Lives for gear
 
2leod's Avatar
 

I would add that I have seen here at GS where people have been given a "time out", allowing a cooling down period so that that person can come back and participate in the community. I think in most cases this had the desired effect. I don't honestly know if anyone has been "banned for life"...
Old 1st August 2005
  #49
Lives for gear
 
2leod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectacular g
sschwisshguurrgllleswhooossshh

can you name that sound?
Any of the current brick-walled to a 2x4 Clear Channel favorites?

"I can name that tune in 3 seconds, Bob..."
Old 1st August 2005
  #50
Lives for gear
Everyone has an agenda. Everyone. No exceptions. It's human nature.

The guys who hold themselves out as gear pimps such as Fletcher or Warhead or Atticus or Nathan... They betray their biases in their posts rather easily. I appreciate their subjective honesty. I know where they are coming from.
Old 1st August 2005
  #51
Gear Addict
 
tedcrop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozraves
Everyone has an agenda. Everyone. No exceptions. It's human nature.

Agenda not me, Oh sorry yes I do have one. Spend all my money and make none.
Old 2nd August 2005
  #52
Lives for gear
 

You are at least as likely - if not more so - to get an honest opinion from a dealer as from a customer. It is a matter of tribalism. If a person has bought-in to a particular system (especially an expensive one), then they will tend to defend that system come what may. Pro-tools, anybody? Or maybe Big Ben? Or one particular model of Avalon pre-amp?

At least a dealer is likely to have more than one product to choose from. And if they hope to stay in business, they won't become so emotionally attached to a piece of gear that they fail to recognize something better or something as good that's cheaper.

As for manufacturers small enough to allow the owner to post on forums, I doubt that any of them set out to design a 'me too' product. Instead, they set out to design the best product they can - either absolute best or best for the money. And since even the smallest of them hope to eventually offer a line of products, it would be short-sighted of them to make an inappropriate recommendation. I may not agree with what they say, but at least they've earned a right to say it.

best,

John
Old 2nd August 2005
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck
Just ask Nathan Eldred about recommending an R84 for rap vocals. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I'm only going to comment on this once. I never recommended the R84 for general usage on rap vocals. What I said & heavily implied was (and it was blown completely out of proportion and words were put in my mouth, many people didn't even bother to read or understand or inquire what I originally wrote...so the 'he said she said' banter made it look like I was off the wall), was that I've used the R84 before on rap vocals with good effect, and that all that matters is the persons voice and how that mic sounds on that person. The person I recorded had a very thin voice, with no lows, and also had a sibilance problem. The R84 was the only microphone that fixed his voice, all the condensers did was accenuate the problems. Anyone who knows the mic knows it's large proximity effect and gentle upper mids. I didn't say that was my main microphone for when a rap project came to my studio, and again, for general usage of ANY type of music I don't recommend that mic as a primary vocal microphone (I record a lot of metal & punk screamers, same aggressive volume, but for the record the one time I used that mic for this purpose, it was acid jazz and the group was heavily influenced by hip hop). My entire point was that despite people's preconceived notions, there may be a piece of gear that is completely not expected to work, but can work those rare .01% of the time, even though it might be unconventional. But if you have a grown man in your studio that sounds like a 5 year old little girl, stick him 3 inches from that mic and it will help return his voice to normalcy (with a pop filter).
Old 5th August 2005
  #54
Here for the gear
 

Personally I far prefer that gear pimps are allowed to post as they do, with full disclosure. It would be far worse to ban them, or move them to a separate forum - what's stopping anyone from joining with a new handle and pushing certain products as though they were an "unbiased" user? I'd MUCH rather know that I'm reading a pimp's opinion straight up, rather than wondering if a certain user is hiding something..... And besides, I've learned a lot from the experienced pimps on gearslutz - don't stop 'em.

OT - baman, you're giving the rest of us gearslutz newbies (not to be confused with life newbies or recording newbies) a really bad name. Your personally insulting posts (and to Jules too, doh!) give credence to those that wish to have newbies go through some kind of weaning period here. Please, cut it out.
Old 5th August 2005
  #55
Lives for gear
 
audioez's Avatar
 

at the end of the day, no one holds a gun to your head saying "You buy this piece of gear mother [email protected]#%er." Just remember it's you who can prevent forest fires, not me.
Old 5th August 2005
  #56
Lives for gear
 
kevinc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooboy
OT - baman, you're giving the rest of us gearslutz newbies (not to be confused with life newbies or recording newbies) a really bad name. Your personally insulting posts (and to Jules too, doh!) give credence to those that wish to have newbies go through some kind of weaning period here. Please, cut it out.

QUIET NEWBIE !!!

YOUR SPEAKING OUT OF TURN !!!





Just kidding.

To be honest you just can`t tell a whole lot by someones first couple posts a lot of times. Hard to tell where they`re coming from experience wise when your simply talking about new gear that nobodys heard a lot of yet.

That`s why it allways pays to be as polite as possible to everyone whether they have 5 posts or 1500.

You never know who that 5 post guy is going to turn out to be.
Old 7th August 2005
  #57
Gear Maniac
 

profit margin

I think CultureOfGreed posted and excellent responce to this thread.
I also worked in an audio store for a short time.

We all must not forget that dealers who sell gear will always push what ever product has the greatest profit margin.
Often times the fewer the dealers the greater the profit margin. ie one dealer for OSA equals high profits for its only dealer (no competition)

This is also why certain companies will not sell to chain stores which discount items.
The manufacturers know they have to keep the profit margin high for the dealer otherwise the dealer wont push the product.

Art johan
Old 7th August 2005
  #58
Gear Maniac
 

I say let them post and give there opinions. If you have ever talked to someone pushing a product you would know. If I don't like the way you do business or the way you carry yourself on the forum or just think your out to make a sell and could care less about customer service, then you automatically go on my never do business list. There are some I would never buy anything from just because of what they say and how they say it.I have made transactions with many and who I do business with now has always come through. I never bought anything form them and felt like man I just got pimped. I think the sly and genuine are exposed in the things say and how they post. Use your own judgement.
Old 16th January 2006
  #59
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Johan
I think CultureOfGreed posted and excellent responce to this thread.
I also worked in an audio store for a short time.

We all must not forget that dealers who sell gear will always push what ever product has the greatest profit margin.
...and I suppose all black folk like watermelon?

I just wasted like a half an hour reading this bull****... damn, y'all need a life or something [me especially... I can't believe I'm commenting here never mind having wasted the time to read this bull****].

I can only speak for myself... so lemme clarify a couple of things as they pertain to my world; and the Mercenary world [as it applies].

First, we're all on salary. There is zero personal financial motive to recommend one piece of gear over another piece of gear. Our personal motives are to keep our "PIA" [Pain In the Ass] factor low... so we'll try to put in a bit more time on the front end to try to get the client the right piece the first time rather than having the thing boomerang [rubber ball... come back... whatever you want to call it].

Second, I haven't been in "sales" for probably two years. If push comes to shove I can find an order form and take an order [which sometimes happens after hours], but for the most part I couldn't be bothered. We have other people on the staff who do that... I've graduated from having to do paperwork. While I have the ability to fill out a paper order form, there is no way in hell I can process an order. They don't even have the proper programs on my computer and I don't have a password to get into those programs. I'm a complete moron when it comes to computers so the powers that be have decided that I'm not allowed to play with the computers in that manner [which is fine and dandy by me!!!].

Third, we have just added some new staff on the "sales" side of things. One of those additions is just about to be allowed to begin posting on forums. He's been with the company for 6 months... he's just starting to pick up the flow of how we work and has really begun the assimilation process to our 'corporate culture'.

He was given a strict set of rules [rules that are the unwritten "pimp rules" here at GS (and pretty much every other forum... at least forums on which I participate)].

1) Always identify your affiliation
2) Never post a link back to the M-A website unless absolutely necessary... product links are to only go to the manufacturer's website.
3) Always speak from personal experience. Repeating a manufacturer's doctrine without personal experience with the product in application will not be tolerated.
4) Don't take any ****. If you believe what you post, stand up for what you believe. If a manufacturer crawls up your ass over a post tell them to go fukk themselves or bring it to me or Jay Fitz so we can tell them to go fukk themselves.

...and a few others that are either more liquid [speaking to general vibe], or I can't remember them at the moment.

As for "sly pimps"... I'm not sure what that means. If you're talking about 'shill' posters that are attached to certain sales organizations... I've identified at least 4... but it's unprovable so how can you ban them?

Things like GS have turned into a great marketing machine for both products and dealers... many of whom have formed "street teams" to help market by 'word of mouth'. It's pretty common in all phases of modern marketing. There are all kinds of companies that do everything from send pretty girls out to bars to market Vodka to sunglasses at the beach to whatever they can think of. Why should this be any different. I'll also mention that I have an "alternative personality" [though in the spirit of full disclosure Jules knows all about that "alternative personality"]. The only time that "alternative personality" ever shows up is when something needs to be said that I [Fletcher] can't say [mostly for political reasons].

The fact of the matter is that there are at least 4 [and probably more] that haven't been as upfront [at least with Jules] about being shills... so like everything else in life... readers of this forum should take E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G they read here with a big bag of salt.

Any and all equipment purchases should only be based on a user's personal experience and not some post on an internet bulletin board.

Sorry for the sermon... I'll shut up now.

Peace.
Old 16th January 2006
  #60
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

everyone once to make money.

i their are many gear pimps on forum that people are not aware of.
i choose to put some degree of confidence in what many say based on what i like, what i read, and what the pip say or has to sale

having read some of Fletchers post at first ah, but i have talk with him and i do not see him as misleading. instead, honest to his beliefs, as well as offering very solid advise!
Nathan has been very kind, and as well, i just do not seem him pushing gear for the sake of pushing.
he as offered me great advise, has been honest with and respectful.
i will listen to what he has to say.

Tim come on, tim hits the chat room regularly and half the guys do not have a clue as to who he is.
is never push gear and i like chatting with him.

their are others as well, many manufacture i see that just offer good advice.
some don't.
some are pimps that push what ever it is they have to sale at the moment.
generally they are not to hard to pick out.
i place little value in anything they say, as they move with the wind.

their is nothing wrong with someone trying to make money

i use to preach,
sale what you believe in.
believe in what you sale.
if you aint use what you are pushing,
you are lying to yourself as well as others.
you will get busted.

long live the Richous gear pimps
pimps that are truly SLUTZS!
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