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Another I HATE ILOK Thread DAW Software
Old 5th September 2008
  #1
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Another I HATE ILOK Thread

I simply needed to move one of my engineers iloks off of our corporate account and put it on his account.
650$ !!!!!!

Up until today I was all for this little blue wonder. Now I hate it with an absolute passion. I can see if I am tying to put the license on multiple accounts but I am just trying to move an entire ilok over to another account. Tech support was just a quote from their FAQ's and the second email was telling me that regardless of what my 20k sales person told me they are not going to do it.

We dont even use the freakin HD system anymore (moved to logic) and we end up with this type of headache. When the new waves bundle shows up on Wednesday it is going straight back. I would rather use the stock plugins than have to go through this again.

I really like how easy the ilok system is to use.......until you have to go to their website to resolve an issue.

WOW....I feel better just talking about it.
Old 5th September 2008
  #2
Easy solution

1. Buy a new iLok.
2. Register it to your account, then transfer all the licenses you need to over to it.
3. De-register from your account within the grace period (free). What is it, 7 days or something?
4. Hand it to your engineer. He registers it under his own name, it will have all the licenses you transferred to it still on it.
5. Voila. Total cost = 1 new iLok, and a bit of time waiting for those transfers.
Old 6th March 2009
  #3
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Solution

Don't use plug ins that require ILOK. What a PITA and waste of money.
Old 9th March 2009
  #4
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ilok sucksdfegad
Old 9th March 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reflixtinian View Post
ilok sucksdfegad
Not at all in my opinion. A legitimate, reliable, and portable way to protect and take your licenses to other studios. And a way to keep developers products' safe. I would require users to have one if I was a software developer. I know how much cracked stuff is out there. The people who cry out against developers wanting to safeguard their assets are obviously either undervaluing their efforts, or looking to get something for nothing.
Old 9th March 2009
  #6
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
Don't use plug ins that require ILOK. What a PITA and waste of money.
PITA? I download licenses to mine, plug it in and forget about it. In what way is that a pain?
Old 8th May 2009
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Man, i respect what you've said, its just that I'm tired of passwords, keys, serials, codes, instalations, registrers, challenges, Peace, Upgrades, Piracy,...Ilok

All that waste my precious time for recording, mixing etc and makes me xpend more time at the computer......

I consider though that UAD is a better deal, cause you get hardware, software upgrades for free, and you don't have to authorize every single plug.
Old 8th May 2009
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by reflixtinian View Post
Man, i respect what you've said, its just that I'm tired of passwords, keys, serials, codes, instalations, registrers, challenges, Peace, Upgrades, Piracy,...Ilok

All that waste my precious time for recording, mixing etc and makes me xpend more time at the computer......

I consider though that UAD is a better deal, cause you get hardware, software upgrades for free, and you don't have to authorize every single plug.
UAD is a hardware-based processing card.

iLok is a copy protection system.

They're not even comparable. Yes the UAD card works as a form of copy protection, but that's only one of it's functions - it also costs a bit more than an iLok! Plus it's harder to go between computers with it, probably the biggest advantage of iLok.

Unfortunately, while there's people who steal software, those of us wishing to stay legit will have a few hoops to jump through.
Old 12th May 2009
  #9
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Yeah Ilok sucks Until you have to work somewhere else and they don't have any of the your favorite plugins!
Always have a 2nd Ilok somewhere just in case! the first one dies ! Now how much would a back up Pultec run?
Old 13th May 2009
  #10
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Mantik's Avatar
I like it.
Take my stick with me, plug it in at my friends studio. - works.
Old 11th January 2010
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantik View Post
I like it.
Take my stick with me, plug it in at my friends studio. - works.
I agree. I much prefer iLok to challenge/response, etc. For me, authorizing plugins from developers like NI or IK Multimedia who don't use iLoks is *much* more of a hassle -- plus you can only authorize specific machines.

On the other hand, were I asked to pay $650 just to transfer some licenses, I would be angry as well. The solution in post #2 sounds like the way to go!
Old 11th January 2010
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Not at all in my opinion. A legitimate, reliable, and portable way to protect and take your licenses to other studios. And a way to keep developers products' safe. I would require users to have one if I was a software developer. I know how much cracked stuff is out there. The people who cry out against developers wanting to safeguard their assets are obviously either undervaluing their efforts, or looking to get something for nothing.
I agree with all this, however, I don't care about protecting a developer's software. I am the consumer. It's the developer's job to protect their software in a way that doesn't interfere with anything I need to do.

That being said, the concept of iLok is a wonderful solution to this problem, however the service should be completely free to users. Why should consumers have to pay anything to help the developers keep things from being pirated? Transfer a plug-in from one account to another? No problem. It should be instantaneous. There's no need for any other person to be involved. thus no extra cost of having to pay someone's salary. if developers choose to be part of the service, then they are the only ones who should be paying anything. It's up to them to work out a deal with PACE that is affordable, yet gets them the service for their users.

And yes, I understand the whole "you don't have to buy from them". The problem is that more and more products are using iLok. It might not be too long before you really don't have much of a choice. Companies don't get better customer service as they gain more customers, they get worse.
Old 12th January 2010
  #13
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Ilok = tutt
Old 12th January 2010
  #14
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I gotta say I was aggravated when my ilok ran out of room and cost me another 40 bucks for a new one. Other than that, I forget they're there
Old 12th January 2010
  #15
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Quote:
I agree with all this, however, I don't care about protecting a developer's software. I am the consumer. It's the developer's job to protect their software in a way that doesn't interfere with anything I need to do.
Really? I wasn't aware that they were obligated to let you do anything that you think you need to do. And as a consumer, when I invest in software, I take at least a passing interest in them being able to protect my investment in their software.

Quote:
That being said, the concept of iLok is a wonderful solution to this problem, however the service should be completely free to users. Why should consumers have to pay anything to help the developers keep things from being pirated?
Why "should" it be free? The users will pay for it one way or another...directly or indirectly.

Quote:
Transfer a plug-in from one account to another? No problem. It should be instantaneous. There's no need for any other person to be involved. thus no extra cost of having to pay someone's salary. if developers choose to be part of the service, then they are the only ones who should be paying anything. It's up to them to work out a deal with PACE that is affordable, yet gets them the service for their users.
You keep on saying the way things "should" be, but that's not the way they are. These kinds of things cost money to administrate. And many manufacturers do cover most of the costs associated with the iLok...I've been using them for years and have never given any money directly to Pace, nor have I ever purchased an iLok. They've been included with several of the products I've purchased. But I'm not naive enough to believe that they were free...I know that I paid for them as part of the package.

As far as transferring licenses, that's not a service everyone uses, and I'm fine with Pace charging for that on a case by case basis. I don't want that extra cost to be buried in the price of the software I buy if it's a service I'm not likely to use.

Not to mention that several companies charge a fee of their own, in addition to what Pace charges. That's certainly within their rights, but they have to realize that if a potential customer of theirs disagrees with that policy they may opt to take their business elsewhere. Same goes for the companies that don't allow licenses to be transferred at all.
Old 13th January 2010
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdee View Post
Ilok = tutt
iLok = wagwag?!

way to post!
Old 25th February 2010
  #17
DSK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
iLok = wagwag?!

way to post!

Anyway iLok is doomed to be completely hacked (if not already)... so either or both 2 things will happen

1. Positives
- Better and better music will emerge from poor bedroom producers... (not so likely but keep fingers crossed)
- Plugins will get more exposure and help get the word out so when a student/poor producer gets his **** togheter gives actual respect to the developer (still not so likely fingers keeped crossed)

2. Negatives
- Independent plugin developers will get a job to pay the bills so no more good plugins will emerge (sadly but very possible sniff)
- Pro studios will stop being so searched and reveered and good engineers will have no job (same as up)

FREEDOM IS GOOD BUT ONLY FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND IT FIRST

As I know for a fact that human race is deceiving and shady and completely unfair... i'm sorry to be so pessimistic..
Old 25th February 2010
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSK View Post
i'm sorry to be so pessimistic..
and wrong, but that's ok
Old 25th February 2010
  #19
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I find it really odd that this is the only profession in the world that for the most part is totally fine with the honest absorbing the punishment for other people stealing software. Microsoft, Adobe, or any major or even small software manufacturers know that piracy is a part of the deal. They don't make us clog usb ports for useless pieces of **** even though they are the most pirated software on the face of the Earth. I know their markets are much larger than most plugin manufacturers, but even so I can't imagine running a company that is so adversarial to the customer. I think a lot of you like the "protection" because it feels like you're in a members only club. You're not. Anything I want is available for free if I look hard enough. Bless your hearts for paying, but you're a freakin sucker for using a system this arcane.

The only advantage of ilok is that you can carry your "license" with you, correct? In real world terms how many people these days work in more than 1 or 2 studios? Would it not be easier just to bring your install cd's and put it on the computers you use and forget about it?

I refuse to use to plugin companies that treat me like a criminal or indoctrinate me into a system like ilok. I'd imagine there's a lot more people like me too. 8 years ago, I invested my entire college fund into learning recording arts. I can say I regret that now, but ultimately I'm seriously glad the focus will be back on making music while the engineer is becoming automated out of the process just like the grocery store checkout clerk. Good riddance. Your dongle doesn't make you anything but a dumbass member of the coming surveillance society.
Old 25th February 2010
  #20
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Quote:
I find it really odd that this is the only profession in the world that for the most part is totally fine with the honest absorbing the punishment for other people stealing software.
That would be odd, but it's not true. Software for other relatively niche-y markets such as CAD-CAM and high-end printing software uses them. So does some software for retail applications. Dongles are nothing new and are far from unique to "our" industry.

Quote:
I think a lot of you like the "protection" because it feels like you're in a members only club. You're not. Anything I want is available for free if I look hard enough. Bless your hearts for paying, but you're a freakin sucker for using a system this arcane.
I have no interest in being in an sort of "club" and don't know anyone who feels that way, yet people often bring that up as an argument against dongles. I also know that I can easily steal software if I want to, yet I choose not to. I don't feel that that makes me a sucker. It just makes me not be a thief.

Quote:
The only advantage of ilok is that you can carry your "license" with you, correct? In real world terms how many people these days work in more than 1 or 2 studios? Would it not be easier just to bring your install cd's and put it on the computers you use and forget about it?
No, that's not the only advantage.

Many people work in multiple studios, or on multiple computers in the same facility.

And no, bringing install CDs is not easier.
Old 25th February 2010
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
I find it really odd that this is the only profession in the world that for the most part is totally fine with the honest absorbing the punishment for other people stealing software. Microsoft, Adobe, or any major or even small software manufacturers know that piracy is a part of the deal. They don't make us clog usb ports for useless pieces of **** even though they are the most pirated software on the face of the Earth. I know their markets are much larger than most plugin manufacturers, but even so I can't imagine running a company that is so adversarial to the customer.
Err...microsoft have challenge/response copy protection - which I find more intrusive than iLok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
I think a lot of you like the "protection" because it feels like you're in a members only club. You're not. Anything I want is available for free if I look hard enough. Bless your hearts for paying, but you're a freakin sucker for using a system this arcane.
I'm sure it is. I can steal a car if I feel like it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
The only advantage of ilok is that you can carry your "license" with you, correct? In real world terms how many people these days work in more than 1 or 2 studios? Would it not be easier just to bring your install cd's and put it on the computers you use and forget about it?
I don't think you've got much professional experience I'm afraid. Over here at least, most engineers are freelance (actually much more likely since house engineers are rare) - I personally work in at least 6 different studios, plus my own and other people's rigs.

Plus your suggestion (install on other computers) will most likely break the user license agreement - since you'll probably leave it on there for next time, and thus give everyone else access to software they haven't paid for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
Your dongle doesn't make you anything but a dumbass member of the coming surveillance society.
that and it enables me to do a better job, and thus get more work. You?
Old 26th February 2010
  #22
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1. I've never had a challenge or response from microsoft. I've put in a serial number however.

2. Plug-ins are tools. They serve a function, just like a hammer. The manufacturer of the hammer doesn't tell me what I can and can't do with that hammer though. That's my mindset.

3. I've made a good living the past 7 years doing this, so I'm not really sure you should be tilting your nose down in my direction. Over here in America, most of us have a home base. Unless you're a jet-setter, ilok is an inconvenience compared to being able to do what you want with what you paid for. If you like the gestapo checking up on you every time you record or mix that's your business. I find it repulsive and a sign of the times.

4. So what if someone else gets a chance to use that software I installed on that computer? If someone likes it, they will probably buy it in the future. If not, tough cookies. That's the risk you take being a software developer. It will always be that way until the end of time. These developers must feel like they're in an endless episode of tom and jerry, and it always blows up in Tom's face. Be fair and reasonable, and goodwill will take care of the rest...that's my philosophy. That's how most of us have become successful on our own, right?
Old 26th February 2010
  #23
I'm not "tilting my nose" in your direction, I'm just pointing out that your experiences are not representative to the pro world over here.

I just think you've got a bit of an unrealistic view of the world of software that's all. The fact that you compared it to a physical object shows this - last time I checked, mics didn't come with copy protection either.

Microsoft windows used to have to be phone authorised. I have no idea if this is still the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
1. I've never had a challenge or response from microsoft. I've put in a serial number however.

2. Plug-ins are tools. They serve a function, just like a hammer. The manufacturer of the hammer doesn't tell me what I can and can't do with that hammer though. That's my mindset.

3. I've made a good living the past 7 years doing this, so I'm not really sure you should be tilting your nose down in my direction. Over here in America, most of us have a home base. Unless you're a jet-setter, ilok is an inconvenience compared to being able to do what you want with what you paid for. If you like the gestapo checking up on you every time you record or mix that's your business. I find it repulsive and a sign of the times.

4. So what if someone else gets a chance to use that software I installed on that computer? If someone likes it, they will probably buy it in the future. If not, tough cookies. That's the risk you take being a software developer. It will always be that way until the end of time. These developers must feel like they're in an endless episode of tom and jerry, and it always blows up in Tom's face. Be fair and reasonable, and goodwill will take care of the rest...that's my philosophy. That's how most of us have become successful on our own, right?
Old 26th February 2010
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
3. I've made a good living the past 7 years doing this, so I'm not really sure you should be tilting your nose down in my direction. Over here in America, most of us have a home base. Unless you're a jet-setter, ilok is an inconvenience compared to being able to do what you want with what you paid for. If you like the gestapo checking up on you every time you record or mix that's your business. I find it repulsive and a sign of the times.

4. So what if someone else gets a chance to use that software I installed on that computer? If someone likes it, they will probably buy it in the future. If not, tough cookies. That's the risk you take being a software developer. It will always be that way until the end of time. These developers must feel like they're in an endless episode of tom and jerry, and it always blows up in Tom's face. Be fair and reasonable, and goodwill will take care of the rest...that's my philosophy. That's how most of us have become successful on our own, right?
Your attitude to software developers is dreadful, if you ever work on a record that everyone with ears has a copy of yet only a handful of people actually bought you may rethink your attitude towards developers, they are creating something too and are simply trying to protect their investment. unfortunately that may mean inconvenience to some users occasionally but on the whole the ilok system works well for the majority of users on a daily basis.

I move between various studios on a regular basis and find traveling with my licenses far simpler than installing plugins and entering huge serial numbers, especially when clients are watching the clocks with ever tightening budgets!
Old 26th February 2010
  #25
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People downloading music illegally isn't going to stop either. It doesn't hurt my feelings because I live in the real world. Do you propose every album come with it's own dongle? Make it so we can only register it to 1 or 2 cd players. I'll decorate my home with a racks full of dongles. USB hubs will become the new multi-disc changer.

Perhaps in the future we can throw in some face recognition software so if any of our buddies enter the room the music stops, and the president of the RIAA comes on and tells them to put their dongle into my cd player as proof they have the right to hear the music. How far do you want to go with this technology? There is no limit until the consumer says enough is enough. I'll always be on the side of freedom, and not live a life based on fear. If that makes me criminally minded, so be it.
Old 1st March 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
... If you like the gestapo checking up on you every time you record or mix that's your business. I find it repulsive and a sign of the times.
To me what's repulsive is the piracy, not the desperate measures most developers feel they must take to try and stop it. I also find copy protection mechanisms obtrusive and irritating, but in my experience, iLok has proved one of the least troublesome.

And like others have already pointed out, I know quite a few folks who move about from studio to studio and hardly anyone complains about having to tote around an iLok. To continue with the ubiquitous car analogy, imagine stepping into the passenger seat and remarking to the driver "What? You mean you have to use THAT key, and only THAT key to get the engine to start on something you paid THAT much money for?"

Talk about living in the real world. Why do you think there are locks on people's houses? Keys for cars? Bank vaults? Obviously, it's because people steal. Or at least, some of them do. So who do we condemn, the ones putting locks on their doors, or the ones doing the stealing?!
Old 1st March 2010
  #27
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I don't want to beat the dead horse, but the car analogy fails. I can make as many copies of that car key as I want. I can give one to my wife, my mom, my dad, my best friend, and hide one in some fake dookie outside. Also, my insurance policy covers every driver.

I don't doubt that ilok can be convenient for a small % of folks, and you should have the option of using a system like that if you feel inclined. However, that said I shouldn't be bound to it because I don't like it or want it. My legal options are dwindling because almost everyone is using ilok. My whole point if you are a software developer is you are screwing yourself out of a lot of people's money and people using your product because of ilok.

I get your point about locking things up to prevent theft. The bottom line is you can lock the door but it just takes 1 rock to bust open the window. So be a good neighbor, and your neighbors will watch out for you.
Old 1st March 2010
  #28
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Admittedly, the car analogy is a stretch, but just as you can make multiple copies of a car key and hand them out to anyone you chose, only one person can drive the car at any given time. In the case of iLok protected software, you can install it on as many computers as you wish, but only one computer can run it at one time. So, for me, the analogy still holds.

I do like, however, the idea of choosing to use iLok or not. To my knowledge, very few developers offer this choice. Of the plugins that I own, PSP is the only one. And there is no question that at times iLoks can be annoying - especially when one is short on USB ports in a laptop situation and would rather not add a hub to the rig.

So, again, I share some of your grievances against copy protection. Where we differ, however, is in the focus of our anger. Copy protection exists because theft exists. My anger is directed towards the thieves, not those attempting to thwart their crimes (an exception being the infamous Waves undercover studio cops. That was going too far in my book).
Old 1st March 2010
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
I don't want to beat the dead horse, but the car analogy fails. I can make as many copies of that car key as I want. I can give one to my wife, my mom, my dad, my best friend, and hide one in some fake dookie outside. Also, my insurance policy covers every driver.

I don't doubt that ilok can be convenient for a small % of folks, and you should have the option of using a system like that if you feel inclined. However, that said I shouldn't be bound to it because I don't like it or want it. My legal options are dwindling because almost everyone is using ilok. My whole point if you are a software developer is you are screwing yourself out of a lot of people's money and people using your product because of ilok.

I get your point about locking things up to prevent theft. The bottom line is you can lock the door but it just takes 1 rock to bust open the window. So be a good neighbor, and your neighbors will watch out for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Admittedly, the car analogy is a stretch, but just as you can make multiple copies of a car key and hand them out to anyone you chose, only one person can drive the car at any given time. In the case of iLok protected software, you can install it on as many computers as you wish, but only one computer can run it at one time. So, for me, the analogy still holds.
I agree, the analogy works if you think of the car as the key!

Celemony also offer authorisation via challenge/response (2 computers) or iLok.


Obtaink, I think you misunderestimate just how many people (esp people who are likely to buy the higher end stuff like Mercury bundle) are going between different studios. Virtually every mix engineer I've worked for (including some names you'll have heard of) brings an iLok with their own plugins - it just wouldn't be possible if everything was challenge response, and even simple serials would be a headache - plus you'd end up with a million different plugins on each system, authorised to different people, and technically the studio would get in trouble (if that company chose to check and then pursue a la waves). With iLok you boot the software, it finds no authorisation and you move (or it does it automatically) the plugin out. done.

I'd also like the choice, but only so I could iLok my IK plugins and take them with me easily...
Old 1st March 2010
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I agree, the analogy works if you think of the car as the key!
Precisely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'd also like the choice, but only so I could iLok my IK plugins and take them with me easily...
I know how you feel, mate! I would love to see IK move to iLok. I also wish Arturia would offer an iLok alternative to the Syncrosoft/Steinberg key. Competing copy-protection mechanisms: now that's something to gripe about! heh
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