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Another I HATE ILOK Thread DAW Software
Old 2nd March 2010
  #61
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
I see that you edited your previous post, and give me a break with your pretentious, new age, pseudo-religious bullcrap. My eyes are open to what they need to be... thank you very much!
That's funny ... Mine was totally realistic, close-to-earth remark. I rather find extremely "religious", pretentious and illusory to talk about "copy protection" when there is none in reality heh
Old 2nd March 2010
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
That's funny ... Mine was totally realistic, close-to-earth remark. I rather find extremely "religious", pretentious and illusory to talk about "copy protection" when there is none in reality heh
Let's call it a "licensing system," then. I pay for the tools I use and put up with the obstacles developers feel they need to put on them. I also pay for the piracy. I guess that makes me a philanthropist.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #63
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
Let's call it a "licensing system," then. I pay for the tools I use and put up with the obstacles developers feel they need to put on them. I also pay for the piracy. I guess that makes me a philanthropist.
Sure, but let us stay ON TOPIC heh :

"Another I HATE ILOK Thread"
Old 3rd March 2010
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post
Just to get a couple things straight here, I am no experienced Audio Professional... but I am extremely proficient in computers. I cannot think of a single plug-in to which a crack is not available. The best iLok has managed to do, is cut down on the number of people cracking software by making it more difficult for the layman. If it weren't against the law, you could give me a list of software and/or plug-ins, and within a week I could have all of them up and running with screen shots to prove it. I'm not saying it's easy, it takes some know how and some experience... but it's not rocket science either. Getting a Hackintosh running was far more difficult than any software crack out there.
If you're capable of cracking software yourself, then fair point. Most audio professionals, or for that matter most people, aren't.

Once software has been cracked, and it's torrented, then yes anyone can use it. I've seen keygens for lots of software (non-iloked), and serial numbers for just about anything that doesn't require more are also freely available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post
Not trying to rag on anybody... but iLok hasn't prevented anything. The guys who know what they're doing will get that software whether iLok likes it or not. So essentially what iLok and companies like Waves have done, is put their paying customers through another loop to use their software. For the record I'm not trying to say software should be free, or that Waves doesn't have the right to take measures against theft of their intellectual property... but it shouldn't hinder the customer either.
I find challenge/response to be far more of a loop than iLok. I'd argue that anything other than a simple serial number (which is, let's face it, fairly pointless) to be an imposition on the customer. Just as having to lock your car is an imposition on those who don't steal cars (what if I lose/break my car keys?!). How about Reason? you have to keep the install CD on hand just in case it asks you for it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post
Apple doesn't do any of this garbage and guess what... they're one of the most profitable companies around. They require a simple serial key and that's it, and somehow they still manage to sell millions of copies of their software. That's because their software is for the most part reasonably priced, and isn't intrusive.
Apple? Pathetic, weak, almost worthless example. Apple are primarily a hardware company - almost certainly they sell Logic at a loss (when it was emagic it had a....dongle!), they use it to sell more macs, not as a profit maker in itself. they don't care so much if you install your mate's copy of logic, because you've had to buy a mac to run it. Apple would probably be more profitable in the short term if Logic and the team required to sell/support it disappeared - of course, in the long term it would be detrimental hence the reason they still make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post
But I digress, to each his own. I personally would never support a company like iLok. Not that I haven't seen worse, some modern EA games won't even let you install their game beyond a certain number of times... you have to go out and buy a new copy. It's all bad though, there's no excuse for any of it. If Waves for example didn't charge such exorbitant amounts of money for plug-ins, I bet more customers would buy it. But just as it's their choice to charge such high prices for plug-ins, it's the hackers choice to create cracks for it. The funny thing is most cracks come with a notepad file that explicitly says "If you like this software, you should buy it!". So much for the *evil* hackers, most of them make no money off what they do and still encourage you to support software you enjoy using.

With that said
There are plenty of reasonably priced Waves Bundles, and yet it's only the most expensive, professional-level bundle that appears on torrents it seems (don't quote me on that - I've only the vaguest idea on how to torrent stuff). The average person who downloads and installs Mercury would never buy it, they don't have a clue how to use most of it, and most likely get bored with music and move onto something else within a year or 2. They're not hurting anyone's sales.

There's a relatively small but significant amount of audio pros and keen amateurs who will use cracked software, and they're the ones who do the damage. Without iLok, challenge/response, or "insert CD" protection, there'd most likely be a whole lot more. Simple serial numbers for Mercury? that's as good as uploading it to the torrent yourself.

I don't have a problem with anyone who prefers challenge/response to iLok, and in an ideal world there'd be both options for everything. But to say copy-protection is pointless...I beg to differ.
Old 3rd March 2010
  #65
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Quote:
There's a relatively small but significant amount of audio pros and keen amateurs who will use cracked software, and they're the ones who do the damage. Without iLok, challenge/response, or "insert CD" protection, there'd most likely be a whole lot more.
That's absolutely correct...the reason Digidesign moved to the iLok when they came out with the HD systems and encouraged people who made compatible plugins to do the same was because there were so many people using Mix systems that were full of stolen plugins. In that case in particular the whole "poor underprivileged kid who otherwise wouldn't be able to record and wouldn't buy anyway" argument falls apart because there aren't too many poor underprivileged kids out there with $10K+ Pro Tools systems.
Old 4th March 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm not talking about the odd $100 plugin, I'm talking about the high value stuff - the $10k of Mercury TDM and so on. I'm also pretty certain PSP isn't just a simple serial but a challenge/response code - you can't install it on more than one computer can you? or at least there's a limit to the number of computers. That's the way IK works, and it's a pain in the arse - means anything I start at home with the intention of finishing in a commercial room I have to avoid or print their plugins.
For the record, PSP, FabFilter, and u-he are all a simple serial. As in you type in the serial, click OK, and that's it. No challenge/response.

Also for the record, all of these companies let you install it on as many computers as you want. Not 1, not 2, not 5 authorizations and then you must ask for more, but all the computers you want.

The fact that they have such cool policies and hassle free copy protection is a big reason why they're my three favorite software companies... and I almost forgot to mention, their plugs sound pretty great too!
Old 4th March 2010
  #67
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obtainknowledge's Avatar
 

I'd like to offer this to the discussion.

Massey plug-ins: Fair business policies, prices, and great plug-ins. Can you find 1 legit cracked version of his plug-ins? I can't. That tells me a lot about the respect that he holds among customers and hackers. He is the gold standard in my book.
Old 4th March 2010
  #68
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lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
I'd like to offer this to the discussion.

Massey plug-ins: Fair business policies, prices, and great plug-ins. Can you find 1 legit cracked version of his plug-ins? I can't. That tells me a lot about the respect that he holds among customers and hackers. He is the gold standard in my book.
Last I checked, he's PT only. If he ever comes out with VST versions you'll see how much "respect" he gets from hackers.
Old 4th March 2010
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
For the record, PSP, FabFilter, and u-he are all a simple serial. As in you type in the serial, click OK, and that's it. No challenge/response.

Also for the record, all of these companies let you install it on as many computers as you want. Not 1, not 2, not 5 authorizations and then you must ask for more, but all the computers you want.

The fact that they have such cool policies and hassle free copy protection is a big reason why they're my three favorite software companies... and I almost forgot to mention, their plugs sound pretty great too!
The only PSP plugin I own is Neon (bought it on an audiomidi deal). I remember vintagewarmer being serial only, but I don't use that one anymore.


To be honest, this isn't really "copy protection". It's almost not worth doing. There is NOTHING to stop me giving this serial number to friends, installing my plugin on every rig I've ever used (as a freelancer), and to be honest I know of people doing this with some things - come to think of it, vintagewarmer being one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by obtainknowledge View Post
I'd like to offer this to the discussion.

Massey plug-ins: Fair business policies, prices, and great plug-ins. Can you find 1 legit cracked version of his plug-ins? I can't. That tells me a lot about the respect that he holds among customers and hackers. He is the gold standard in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
Last I checked, he's PT only. If he ever comes out with VST versions you'll see how much "respect" he gets from hackers.
Again, you wouldn't need to "crack" a massey plugin - you just make the serial number available. There is nothing to stop anyone doing this, and again I know of people who install their massey plugs on rigs they use once, and then leave them there for all to use "in case they come back".

For the time and effort involved in cracking a plugin, it's probably cheaper to register with a false name and account, buy one copy of the plugin and then post it to torrents than it is to spend the time cracking it.

I agree though - if it was VST/PC, then this would happen for sure. As it is, I can't imagine the crack teams have too many requests for it.

The price is a big factor as well I'd imagine, but you know the mentalities of people - why pay even a tenner if you can get it for free?
Old 14th April 2010
  #70
RTR
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RTR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
It comes to the same thing ... Just do a little search ... Just to make you relaxed, I myself purchased all the software and plugins that I need.
The strangest thing is that for a mere trying some plugins you need to go through the iLok ritual ...
I cant believe you are actually explaining yourself to some joker on the Internet..I do not use illegal software at all but I know almost all of it has been cracked just by copying a new product name from here at GS and pasting it in google to read about it ...and I feel no need to explain myself to some guy on a web forum...It is usually the guy that calls attention to himself with the "why do you know so much about cracked software" that is really the one using the cracked **** in the first place!! I know the catholic church is responsible for raping little boys ..that don't mean I am a priest!!
Old 17th April 2010
  #71
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Eiseman View Post
I just scanned this thread, and it's amazing how many different opinions there are here.

I can't figure out why some people hate iLok so much.

For my way of working, it is essential. I am a freelance engineer. I work at many different studios. I used to have a problem going from studio to studio, worrying about whether or not they would have the plugins I am used to, and whether I would have to spend a ton of time installing things before I start the session.

Now, I have a portable firewire drive with OSX installed, and my own installation of Protools including all the plugins I own. When I enter a studio, I boot from my drive, plug in my iLoks, and I'm ready to go.

If I was using disk authorizations, this wouldn't work because the majority of those authorizations use the CPU ID to determine the computer you are working on. Every time you change computers, all your disk authorized plugins get deauthorized again. But all my iLok auth'ed plugins are up and running immediately.

I know I'm not going to change any minds, but for me, this works flawlessly. I wouldn't have it any other way.


Hi Blake,

I do the same like you.
I've my personal HD drive with HD system cloned from my studio G5 and ilok, and when I go to other studios I'm ready to go in some minutes.
This has an great value .

But I would like Ilok had greater flexibility for users, because the excessive fear to protect the software comes to limit often the legal users.

Everyone have fear to lost their iloks of course, I'd like for example that the whole ilok could be protected with limited time licenses , like now only Waves do, this could be great.
Another thing I'd like to have an area on my ilok account where to park the authorizations; I travel a lot and it could be great to park the auth on my web area and download them again after 10h flight without care of my ilok during the trip, the airport security controls...etc..

Or better to have something that works def better with net ....

Now I think the most interesting protection is by Propellerheads

Propellerhead Software - Products - Record

I think that Ilok must go in this direction.

Sab
________________
:: MoReVoX ::
Old 17th April 2010
  #72
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTR View Post
insulting content deleted


added: I am 110% legit here, BTW. In fact, I even donate regularly to freeware/shareware developers whose creations I use for profit... or even just for fun. I estimate that I've spent over $20,000 on software alone over the last 25 years, but that helped make me well over a million. I lived on that money from freelance work and artist royalties. I'm pretty poor these days, but I still spend about a grand a year on software... signed, The Internet Joker Guy.
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