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Another I HATE ILOK Thread DAW Software
Old 1st March 2010
  #31
Gear Head
 

I am not a professional engineer- - meaning I do not make the majority of my living wage from the music industry. I AM an engineer who makes things and understands the value of IP. I hate software piracy (and own approximately 6 Microsoft OS lincenses since I have that many studio/home computers) and can't stand illegal downloads of any media/content.

I do not use iLok as I have not had a requirement to, so my question may seem stupid and obvious, but please bare with me...

If I buy iLok protected software (Waves Platinum for example), install it,and then authorize/license it to my iLok I can use it anywhere that had WAVES PLATNUM installed.

The iLok might as well be a generic USB device with 40 serial numbers in notepad as far as LEGAL users are concerned.

Basically, for me to travel with my iLok to other studios (and this could happen in my case, as I have a several friends who have small studios), each of them must have the software installed. How is this helpful?

The iLok doesn't contain anything but the licenses....

If you're a freelance engineer, and you're travelling to do work at other studios....and they OWN the plug-in you want to use there....wouldn't they have a licensed copy installed? I mean if you're not travelling with the actual plug in, where are you going that has the plug-in installed, but sitting idle waiting for an iLok?

How is this potentially saving any time for the freelance egineer?

Basically I understand the concept of copy protection in this case, just not utility....If I need to install the software on every system.....

I guess you could buy one copy of Waves and install it on every system around town. You're not violating a EULA agreement since you need an iLok to access it, it just seems weird to me that multiple studios might have software they can't use sitting on their DAW....
Old 1st March 2010
  #32
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
iLok is a total nonsense. Bullying the honest buyers of software.

You want to use the software without paying ? OK, just download it and use it instantly ..

You want to buy a soft ? OK, buy this dongle first and waste lot of time and effort with all those very serious and complex "rituals" downloading and installing all kind of iLok drivers, protecting softwares with dog's head, registering and what not ... Registering your "new licenses (iLok not found ...) etc. Then find out that this or that still does not work, you need to install another protecting soft, new version etc etc. Then suddenly, now and then you get error reports "iLok not found", while it clearly did not move from its position, you have to restart etc etc. (suddenly it IS again present ...)

Why all that ? Because it protects the software against illegal users. It does not allow them to use the software without iLok ...



Total BS. There is not a single piece of software (that uses iLok), including the latest ones, that is not available in its free fully working cracked version within few seconds. So what PROTECTION DOES IT PROVIDE ??? None ... If I am a software developer, I would sue iLok creators for a lot of money. Because they utterly failed in what they proclaimed. And they still exist !! They did not disappear into the garbage of history.

The honest users are being molested with all the iLok nonsense, pirates enjoy an easy life. I actually know lot of official SW users who buy the SW, suffer iLok BS, throw it out and use the "cracked versions" ....

The TRUTH is, that any kind of protection DOES NOT protect anything, just obstructs the buyers from easy use of the software.

So why to spend money and effort in protection that does not work ? Those who want to buy the soft, will buy it anyway, those who do not want to buy it, will not buy it anyway. So where is the point ? Why not to give up all this protecting nonsense ? The result will be the same. Just less of pissed off honest users.

iLok, go away ...
Old 1st March 2010
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
I agree. I much prefer iLok to challenge/response, etc. For me, authorizing plugins from developers like NI or IK Multimedia who don't use iLoks is *much* more of a hassle -- plus you can only authorize specific machines.

On the other hand, were I asked to pay $650 just to transfer some licenses, I would be angry as well. The solution in post #2 sounds like the way to go!
plus one

I love the ilok, simple, elegant - it works better than any other copy protection I have to use... toontrack blows, NI is a crap shoot and if service center gets buggy you're totally skrewed...

my ilok saved my ass after a catastrophic mechanical hard drive failure - as bad as that situation was, everything on the ilok got reloaded, and just worked...

no chasing authcodes, logins, passwords, etc, etc, etc... what a nightmare...


as a person who buys my software I simply wish ALL of it were on the iLok...
Old 1st March 2010
  #34
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
it works better than any other copy protection I have to use..
But it is NOT a copy protection ... It is just a bad joke ... Show me a single PC software/plugin that is "protected" by iLok ... Funnily enough, even iLok itself is already cracked heh
Old 2nd March 2010
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
But it is NOT a copy protection ... It is just a bad joke ... Show me a single PC software/plugin that is "protected" by iLok ... Funnily enough, even iLok itself is already cracked heh
How is it that you know so much about cracked software?
Old 2nd March 2010
  #36
Lives for gear
 
lagavulin16's Avatar
 

I think the ideal situation would be for companies to give people a choice between an iLok and a simple serial - no challenge/response, third party authentication software, etc.

That way people who like using/paying for the iLok can do so, and those of us who just want a simple serial will be happy as well.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95svtcobta View Post
I am not a professional engineer- - meaning I do not make the majority of my living wage from the music industry. I AM an engineer who makes things and understands the value of IP. I hate software piracy (and own approximately 6 Microsoft OS lincenses since I have that many studio/home computers) and can't stand illegal downloads of any media/content.

I do not use iLok as I have not had a requirement to, so my question may seem stupid and obvious, but please bare with me...

If I buy iLok protected software (Waves Platinum for example), install it,and then authorize/license it to my iLok I can use it anywhere that had WAVES PLATNUM installed.

The iLok might as well be a generic USB device with 40 serial numbers in notepad as far as LEGAL users are concerned.

Basically, for me to travel with my iLok to other studios (and this could happen in my case, as I have a several friends who have small studios), each of them must have the software installed. How is this helpful?

The iLok doesn't contain anything but the licenses....

If you're a freelance engineer, and you're travelling to do work at other studios....and they OWN the plug-in you want to use there....wouldn't they have a licensed copy installed? I mean if you're not travelling with the actual plug in, where are you going that has the plug-in installed, but sitting idle waiting for an iLok?

How is this potentially saving any time for the freelance egineer?

Basically I understand the concept of copy protection in this case, just not utility....If I need to install the software on every system.....

I guess you could buy one copy of Waves and install it on every system around town. You're not violating a EULA agreement since you need an iLok to access it, it just seems weird to me that multiple studios might have software they can't use sitting on their DAW....
Well, you kind of don't get it. It's much easier to run a simple installer and authorise it with an iLok than it is to run an installer, connect that computer to the internet, do the challenge response, then un-authorise it at the end of the session...the assistant can install everything pre the session, leaving you just to plug in your iLok.

If you've never done it, you might not know!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
iLok is a total nonsense. Bullying the honest buyers of software.

You want to use the software without paying ? OK, just download it and use it instantly ..

You want to buy a soft ? OK, buy this dongle first and waste lot of time and effort with all those very serious and complex "rituals" downloading and installing all kind of iLok drivers, protecting softwares with dog's head, registering and what not ... Registering your "new licenses (iLok not found ...) etc. Then find out that this or that still does not work, you need to install another protecting soft, new version etc etc. Then suddenly, now and then you get error reports "iLok not found", while it clearly did not move from its position, you have to restart etc etc. (suddenly it IS again present ...)

Why all that ? Because it protects the software against illegal users. It does not allow them to use the software without iLok ...



Total BS. There is not a single piece of software (that uses iLok), including the latest ones, that is not available in its free fully working cracked version within few seconds. So what PROTECTION DOES IT PROVIDE ??? None ... If I am a software developer, I would sue iLok creators for a lot of money. Because they utterly failed in what they proclaimed. And they still exist !! They did not disappear into the garbage of history.

The honest users are being molested with all the iLok nonsense, pirates enjoy an easy life. I actually know lot of official SW users who buy the SW, suffer iLok BS, throw it out and use the "cracked versions" ....

The TRUTH is, that any kind of protection DOES NOT protect anything, just obstructs the buyers from easy use of the software.

So why to spend money and effort in protection that does not work ? Those who want to buy the soft, will buy it anyway, those who do not want to buy it, will not buy it anyway. So where is the point ? Why not to give up all this protecting nonsense ? The result will be the same. Just less of pissed off honest users.

iLok, go away ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
I think the ideal situation would be for companies to give people a choice between an iLok and a simple serial - no challenge/response, third party authentication software, etc.

That way people who like using/paying for the iLok can do so, and those of us who just want a simple serial will be happy as well.
Virtually no-one goes for a "simple" serial for high value software. All the companies who don't use iLok use challenge/response or similar.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #38
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
How is it that you know so much about cracked software?
So much ? Are you joking ? Everybody has internet and google, I suppose ... If I type there for example the names of my own albums, first 100 links are to pirate torrents ...
Old 2nd March 2010
  #39
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Virtually no-one goes for a "simple" serial for high value software. All the companies who don't use iLok use challenge/response or similar.
But why ?? This is the question. What do they secure by it ? Any monkey can download the same fully working software within few seconds ... (not being troubled and harassed by all these (useless) extra processes ...

The point is - those who want to buy would buy anyway (including me). Why should they have more difficult life than pirates ? And why should some external company (iLok) profit and parasite on something, while it does not work at all ...
Old 2nd March 2010
  #40
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chrisdee's Avatar
Ok. ILOK = fuuck
Old 2nd March 2010
  #41
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chrisdee's Avatar
You don't need ILOK if you by a hardware synth or a guitar. You shouldn't need ILOK on software either. Serial codes, authorizations etc should be enough.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #42
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
You want to buy a soft ? OK, buy this dongle first and waste lot of time and effort with all those very serious and complex "rituals" downloading and installing all kind of iLok drivers, protecting softwares with dog's head, registering and what not ... Registering your "new licenses (iLok not found ...) etc. Then find out that this or that still does not work, you need to install another protecting soft, new version etc etc. Then suddenly, now and then you get error reports "iLok not found", while it clearly did not move from its position, you have to restart etc etc. (suddenly it IS again present ...)
Well, perhaps I've just been lucky, but I have NEVER had these kinds of problems using iLok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
But why ?? This is the question. What do they secure by it ? Any monkey can download the same fully working software within few seconds
Yes, any monkey willing to risk bringing down his entire system with some malware ridden [k]rack from some dodgy website, not to mention breaking the law. No, thanks!
Old 2nd March 2010
  #43
135323
Guest
This may come across as a strong opinion, and no offense to present company... but no one should be supporting iLok. Intrusive DRM is one of the worst things ever invented. Without getting into the whole argument, because it's been argued to death and we all know each sides position. Personally I don't own a single plug-in that requires iLok and I never will. For someone to tell me what I can and can't do with a product I've purchased (aside from making copies and distributing it to others)... well I can't help but laugh at the idea.

When I buy a new Blu-ray disc, one of the first things I do is rip a copy of it to my HDD. So I have a backup and also so my whole movie collection is on my HTPC. The next thing will be, when you buy a movie the MPA will find a way to license movies. So the next time your friend asks to borrow The Departed, you'll have to say "Sorry, its licensed to my player... won't play on anything else".

I have no problem with serial numbers, and authentication of that serial during install. But beyond that, I'll do whatever I want with my software... I'm not paying for two copies of the same software (at an inflated price), just so you can stuff your pockets a little more. As long as I'm using it in my home, on my computers... fuuck
Old 2nd March 2010
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
Blake Eiseman's Avatar
iLok is a life saver

I just scanned this thread, and it's amazing how many different opinions there are here.

I can't figure out why some people hate iLok so much.

For my way of working, it is essential. I am a freelance engineer. I work at many different studios. I used to have a problem going from studio to studio, worrying about whether or not they would have the plugins I am used to, and whether I would have to spend a ton of time installing things before I start the session.

Now, I have a portable firewire drive with OSX installed, and my own installation of Protools including all the plugins I own. When I enter a studio, I boot from my drive, plug in my iLoks, and I'm ready to go.

If I was using disk authorizations, this wouldn't work because the majority of those authorizations use the CPU ID to determine the computer you are working on. Every time you change computers, all your disk authorized plugins get deauthorized again. But all my iLok auth'ed plugins are up and running immediately.

I know I'm not going to change any minds, but for me, this works flawlessly. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #45
Lives for gear
 
lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Well, you kind of don't get it. It's much easier to run a simple installer and authorise it with an iLok than it is to run an installer, connect that computer to the internet, do the challenge response, then un-authorise it at the end of the session...the assistant can install everything pre the session, leaving you just to plug in your iLok.

If you've never done it, you might not know!






Virtually no-one goes for a "simple" serial for high value software. All the companies who don't use iLok use challenge/response or similar.
PSP, Fabfilter, u-he.com and plenty of other plugin companies are fine with a simple serial. PSP offers both iLok or a simple serial. Considering iLok has been cracked, what's the added value beyond portability of software?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Eiseman View Post
I just scanned this thread, and it's amazing how many different opinions there are here.

I can't figure out why some people hate iLok so much.

For my way of working, it is essential. I am a freelance engineer. I work at many different studios. I used to have a problem going from studio to studio, worrying about whether or not they would have the plugins I am used to, and whether I would have to spend a ton of time installing things before I start the session.

Now, I have a portable firewire drive with OSX installed, and my own installation of Protools including all the plugins I own. When I enter a studio, I boot from my drive, plug in my iLoks, and I'm ready to go.

If I was using disk authorizations, this wouldn't work because the majority of those authorizations use the CPU ID to determine the computer you are working on. Every time you change computers, all your disk authorized plugins get deauthorized again. But all my iLok auth'ed plugins are up and running immediately.

I know I'm not going to change any minds, but for me, this works flawlessly. I wouldn't have it any other way.
I agree, but outside of people in your situation, I can't fathom why anyone would prefer iLok over a simple serial code.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Basically, for me to travel with my iLok to other studios (and this could happen in my case, as I have a several friends who have small studios), each of them must have the software installed. How is this helpful?
It's very easy to install a plugin on a system, and then remove it after a session if you don't want it there any more. Every iLok-protected plugin I'm aware of can be easily downloaded and installed off of the internet.

Quote:
The point is - those who want to buy would buy anyway (including me). Why should they have more difficult life than pirates ? And why should some external company (iLok) profit and parasite on something, while it does not work at all ...
Are you really complaining because thieves have it "easier" than honest people do?

I've never felt "molested" or anything like that by the iLok. I've had many more issues with disk-based authorizations than I ever have with the iLok.

And to say that the iLok doesn't work "at all" is an understatement to say the least. Even if it's not completely effective, it's a deterrent, and I don't believe it's been cracked on the Mac side of things, has it?

Quote:
But beyond that, I'll do whatever I want with my software... I'm not paying for two copies of the same software (at an inflated price), just so you can stuff your pockets a little more. As long as I'm using it in my home, on my computers...
The nice thing about the iLok is that it allows you to use the software you've purchased in your home, or anywhere else, on as many computers as you like...you just can't use it on more than one at once.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #47
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post


Are you really complaining because thieves have it "easier" than honest people do?
No .. I am complaining about the absurdity of the whole thing. There are certain devices and procedures that are supposedly invented and created TO PROTECT the software and for that the honest users have to spend extra money and extra effort. Which would be OK, if these things (iLok, challenge response or whatever) really work and protect the stuff.

But the truth is they absolutely do not protect anything. So all this theatre is just absurd and good for nothing ... (just good maybe for the iLok people to fill their pocket with nice undeserved cash).

So the basic (logical) question is - if all the protection 1) obstructs the honest users 2) protects NOTHING - why to bother at all ?? Why to spend extra expenses from the manufacturers' side for this "Potemkin" style of protection (that also rises the price of the software) and to force the honest users to do things which are totally useless ?
Old 2nd March 2010
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
PSP, Fabfilter, u-he.com and plenty of other plugin companies are fine with a simple serial. PSP offers both iLok or a simple serial.
I'm not talking about the odd $100 plugin, I'm talking about the high value stuff - the $10k of Mercury TDM and so on. I'm also pretty certain PSP isn't just a simple serial but a challenge/response code - you can't install it on more than one computer can you? or at least there's a limit to the number of computers. That's the way IK works, and it's a pain in the arse - means anything I start at home with the intention of finishing in a commercial room I have to avoid or print their plugins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
Considering iLok has been cracked, what's the added value beyond portability of software?
I'm not sure iLok has been cracked - at least, not in general. There used to be the iLok reset hack which (as far as I'm aware - I don't look for these things) hasn't worked beyond tiger etc, and runs a serious risk of f-ing up your legit plugs.

The crack comes when someone hacks Waves mercury and fools it into thinking it's making a dongle call when it's actually calling a software dongle (I think - no expert). So you can't crack iLok as such, you have to have a crack for each piece of software.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. As such, although we all see Waves mercury cracks for sale on ebay etc, there's not a general "ilok hack" around. I'm also not aware that it's been cracked on Mac, which is where the majority of Mercury sales are going to come from. Also it's people like Blake who are going to be buying mercury, not the odd home studio user or small owner-operator (I'm generalising here, please no-one think I'm being patronising - I'm sure there's lots of people with Mercury TDM on their rigs!) and thus need the portability.

I'm not sure the one-room guys and the freelancers are ever going to see eye-to-eye here, but the simple thing is iLok works for both and serials only for one. given that neither is uncrackable (how easy is it to find a serial number?! I've also seen keygens for melodyne and IK products) if you're not going to offer iLok, you might as well ignore copy protection all together.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdee View Post
You don't need ILOK if you by a hardware synth or a guitar <snip>
As soon as you start using analogies in the physical world, you prove you don't understand intellectual property and your argument is null and void. you can't copy a guitar in 30secs and give it to your mate either. The guitar IS an ilok in itself!

Someone came up with an analogy in another thread about a car. you can make 5 copies of keys for your car, but there's still only one car to drive. That's not a bad analogy, if you remember that in this case the CAR is the iLok, and the keys the individual computers the software is installed on.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #50
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
make 5 copies of keys for your car, but there's still only one car to drive. That's not a bad analogy, if you remember that in this case the CAR is the iLok, and the keys the individual computers the software is installed on.
Nice fairy tale ... But it does not work in the software world, sorry ...
Old 2nd March 2010
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Nice fairy tale ... But it does not work in the software world, sorry ...
It wasn't my analogy, but it's the only real world/software world analogy I can think of that comes even close to working.

I can see why challenge/response would be the best system for a mastering room, but I disagree with your reasoning that iLok "protects nothing" so until we could agree on that point, we can't really have a proper discussion.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #52
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
but I disagree with your reasoning that iLok "protects nothing" so until we could agree on that point, we can't really have a proper discussion.
OK, show me one single PC plugin protected by iLok that is not freely available in its cracked form ... (not speaking of iLok itself)
Old 2nd March 2010
  #53
135323
Guest
Just to get a couple things straight here, I am no experienced Audio Professional... but I am extremely proficient in computers. I cannot think of a single plug-in to which a crack is not available. The best iLok has managed to do, is cut down on the number of people cracking software by making it more difficult for the layman. If it weren't against the law, you could give me a list of software and/or plug-ins, and within a week I could have all of them up and running with screen shots to prove it. I'm not saying it's easy, it takes some know how and some experience... but it's not rocket science either. Getting a Hackintosh running was far more difficult than any software crack out there.

Not trying to rag on anybody... but iLok hasn't prevented anything. The guys who know what they're doing will get that software whether iLok likes it or not. So essentially what iLok and companies like Waves have done, is put their paying customers through another loop to use their software. For the record I'm not trying to say software should be free, or that Waves doesn't have the right to take measures against theft of their intellectual property... but it shouldn't hinder the customer either.

Apple doesn't do any of this garbage and guess what... they're one of the most profitable companies around. They require a simple serial key and that's it, and somehow they still manage to sell millions of copies of their software. That's because their software is for the most part reasonably priced, and isn't intrusive.

But I digress, to each his own. I personally would never support a company like iLok. Not that I haven't seen worse, some modern EA games won't even let you install their game beyond a certain number of times... you have to go out and buy a new copy. It's all bad though, there's no excuse for any of it. If Waves for example didn't charge such exorbitant amounts of money for plug-ins, I bet more customers would buy it. But just as it's their choice to charge such high prices for plug-ins, it's the hackers choice to create cracks for it. The funny thing is most cracks come with a notepad file that explicitly says "If you like this software, you should buy it!". So much for the *evil* hackers, most of them make no money off what they do and still encourage you to support software you enjoy using.

With that said
Old 2nd March 2010
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
OK, show me one single PC plugin protected by iLok that is not freely available in its cracked form ... (not speaking of iLok itself)
Why are you focused only on the PC side of things? In our industry the Mac is very common as well, and as has alredy been pointed out, that is likely the platform where more (don't get offended, I didn't say "all") legitimate purchasers of higher-end plugins are. Even if it's not 100% effective, it's still effective...and, again, not every iLok user feels as violated as you do.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #55
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
So much ? Are you joking ? Everybody has internet and google, I suppose ... If I type there for example the names of my own albums, first 100 links are to pirate torrents ...
No, I'm not joking. We are talking about copy-protected computer programs here, not music. I see that kind of thing on google. But, to "know" all PC software is truly available, you would have to be d/l-ing and testing it. BTW, I understand a lot of that information is bogus.

Old 2nd March 2010
  #56
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
We are talking about copy-protected computer programs here, not music.
It comes to the same thing ... Just do a little search ... Just to make you relaxed, I myself purchased all the software and plugins that I need.
The strangest thing is that for a mere trying some plugins you need to go through the iLok ritual ...
Old 2nd March 2010
  #57
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
It comes to the same thing ... Just do a little search ...
I have no need to search for cracked PC software, evidently you do.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #58
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 

iLok, eLicenser and C/R suck equally. I hate them all with a passion.
Old 2nd March 2010
  #59
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
I have no need to search for cracked PC software, evidently you do.
One can keep eyes open or closed ... But it does not change anything in the reality. And if we are talking about reality, closed eyes will not help us ... it will be just a false illusion
Old 2nd March 2010
  #60
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
One can keep eyes open or closed ... But it does not change anything in the reality. And if we are talking about reality, closed eyes will not help us ... it will be just a false illusion
I see that you edited your previous post, and give me a break with your pretentious, new age, pseudo-religious bullcrap. My eyes are open to what they need to be... thank you very much!

Now, back to the iLok hatin'. I actually prefer it to other forms of copy-protection, except that I think you should get two licenses/seats. Well, it doesn't work that way, but I don't whine about it.

I have about thirty iLok assets, and two Syncrosoft. Most of my "dongled" licenses are only available in these formats. There is no direct equivalent/substitute for many of these.

You can refuse to buy, or demo, any software for any reason you want. It should be made clear that piracy is wrong, and not right just because you don't like a form of copy-protection.
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