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Ethan Winer on... Condenser Microphones
Old 28th September 2008
  #451
Harmless Wacko
 

bump



























ahh me











sorry










couldn't resist.







SM.
Old 28th September 2008
  #452
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studjo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
bump



























ahh me











sorry










couldn't resist.







SM.
wanna get into troubles? eh eh eh ?



Jo heh
Old 28th September 2008
  #453
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
bump
Was there a specific question in there? heh

Also, since you brought it up, I recall you and I were going to do a test at your studio where I'd slap a 20 KHz low-pass filter across your 2-buss and you'd tell me when it's engaged without looking. I PM'd you twice about that after you agreed, then nothing. Well?

--Ethan
Old 5th October 2008
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
bump

ahh me

sorry

couldn't resist.

SM.
"What happened? I blacked out."
Old 5th October 2008
  #455
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I think it's just an end to the "analog is better" debate!!
Thank god....
Old 13th October 2008
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearaddict View Post
I think it's just an end to the "analog is better" debate!!
Thank god....
That debate will never end - it all boils down to a matter of taste.

Me? I'm an audiophile and there's NOTHING my ears love more than the sound of R2R tape thru my all tube McIntosh stereo system. Absolute heaven and life-like...just like I was there.
Old 13th October 2008
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
That debate will never end - it all boils down to a matter of taste.
If we allow the 'debate' to remain subjective (taste) we will never move forward.

However, direct comparison to actual source will end the debate and forces us to confront the nature & limitations of the comparison.

Quote:
Me? I'm an audiophile and there's NOTHING my ears love more than the sound of R2R tape thru my all tube McIntosh stereo system. Absolute heaven and life-like...just like I was there.
Your ears prefer the tape & tube rendition over the real source?

Andy
Old 13th October 2008
  #458
I've never heard a recording that sounded exactly like the source, actually, not even close.

Ashford and Simpson wrote a song about it;

"There's Nothing Like the Real Thing, Baby".

Go see a orchestral concert and tell me if you've ever heard that sound on a recording. Tape and tubes are euphonic, not real. Microphones sample a snipet of the sound, much is not captured, especially location cues that our ears can detect. Ears hear in a 360 degree sphere with full location cues. Even if you only have one ear, you can determine the direction and source of the sound. Mics don't do that. A single set of stereo speakers also don't offer the multiple position sources of the sounds, just the positions of the speakers.
We have a lot to research and develope before recorded sound even approaches reality. In that regard, we are still in the wax cylinder era.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 13th October 2008
  #459
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
We have a lot to research and develope before recorded sound even approaches reality.
Yes, and perhaps it doesn't even matter anyway. I recently made THIS video showing a partially successful (IMO) attempt at recorded realism. The same day I posted that link at Harmony Central, Bruce Swedien called me on the phone to say that while he liked the video, he never aims for true realism. And I had to agree. For pop music, anyway, the goal is more to create a virtual reality that sounds good above all.

Related, another poster in another forum mentioned a famous quote to the effect (paraphrasing): "I can't think of anything I'd like to hear less than an orchestra playing in my living room."

heh

--Ethan
Old 14th October 2008
  #460
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Martin Kantola's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I've never heard a recording that sounded exactly like the source, actually, not even close.

Ashford and Simpson wrote a song about it;

"There's Nothing Like the Real Thing, Baby".

Go see a orchestral concert and tell me if you've ever heard that sound on a recording. Tape and tubes are euphonic, not real. Microphones sample a snipet of the sound, much is not captured, especially location cues that our ears can detect. Ears hear in a 360 degree sphere with full location cues. Even if you only have one ear, you can determine the direction and source of the sound. Mics don't do that. A single set of stereo speakers also don't offer the multiple position sources of the sounds, just the positions of the speakers.
We have a lot to research and develope before recorded sound even approaches reality. In that regard, we are still in the wax cylinder era.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Amen, that's exactly how I feel about it! Have an orchestral sample on this webpage and my microphone was actually 360 degrees, but realism, nah...

Martin
Old 15th October 2008
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I've never heard a recording that sounded exactly like the source, actually, not even close.
Jim - if you're interested, you're welcome to visit one of my sessions in Poland.

Did you ever make the direct comparison?

Quote:
Go see a orchestral concert and tell me if you've ever heard that sound on a recording.
I have, I do this regularly.

However, there are very few studio monitors capable of approaching the reproduction of an orchestra at the most basic level, not to mention the scale of the reproduction, which makes testing impossible at the average studio (let alone the limitations of the microphones).

Quote:
Microphones sample a snipet of the sound, much is not captured, especially location cues that our ears can detect. Ears hear in a 360 degree sphere with full location cues. Even if you only have one ear, you can determine the direction and source of the sound. Mics don't do that. A single set of stereo speakers also don't offer the multiple position sources of the sounds, just the positions of the speakers.
This line of enquirey is over-rated.

If I could reproduce an orchestra or ensemble, with stereo speakers & mics, that you couldn't tell from the real source in direct comparison, the significance of 360 degree 'cues' would be put in perspective.

Andy
Old 15th October 2008
  #462
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_simpson View Post
Jim - if you're interested, you're welcome to visit one of my sessions in Poland.
Did you ever make the direct comparison?
I have, I do this regularly.
However, there are very few studio monitors capable of approaching the reproduction of an orchestra at the most basic level, not to mention the scale of the reproduction, which makes testing impossible at the average studio (let alone the limitations of the microphones).
This line of enquirey is over-rated.
If I could reproduce an orchestra or ensemble, with stereo speakers & mics, that you couldn't tell from the real source in direct comparison, the significance of 360 degree 'cues' would be put in perspective.
Andy
We have a saying here in the states, "close, but no cigar".

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 15th October 2008
  #463
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

C'mon you guys, please don't disagree with each other. This thread exists for the sole purpose of insulting and disagreeing with me! heh

--Ethan
Old 15th October 2008
  #464
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Martin Kantola's Avatar
 

Sorry to disappoint you then Ethan, because that's not true.



Martin
Old 16th October 2008
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
We have a saying here in the states, "close, but no cigar".

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
That's why direct-comparison blind-testing is so useful.

Andy
Old 16th October 2008
  #466
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Talking

I was kidding Martin!
Old 16th October 2008
  #467
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DamnYankee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I've never heard a recording that sounded exactly like the source, actually, not even close.

Ashford and Simpson wrote a song about it;

"There's Nothing Like the Real Thing, Baby".

Go see a orchestral concert and tell me if you've ever heard that sound on a recording. Tape and tubes are euphonic, not real. Microphones sample a snipet of the sound, much is not captured, especially location cues that our ears can detect. Ears hear in a 360 degree sphere with full location cues. Even if you only have one ear, you can determine the direction and source of the sound. Mics don't do that. A single set of stereo speakers also don't offer the multiple position sources of the sounds, just the positions of the speakers.
We have a lot to research and develope before recorded sound even approaches reality. In that regard, we are still in the wax cylinder era.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Actually Jim, I used be in the 1st violin section of an orchestra. During high school, I was first chair.

My post was in reference to reproduced material. R2R thru my tube system is as close as it's gonna get.

Of course ya don't get the full effect of 3D nor full effect of the reverb, but trust me: I can hear the bow/string nuances that you probably never even notice. Those instruments sound lifelike and like heaven. Sorry - I don't get that same effect out of my CD player.
Old 17th October 2008
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
I was kidding Martin!
I know ;-)

Martin
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