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Great White get award (for stupidity)
Old 22nd February 2003
  #1
Great White get award (for stupidity)

The Band Great White gets the jackass of the year award! 96 people were killed.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/875480.asp?0dm=N11PN
Old 22nd February 2003
  #2
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Roland's Avatar
Re: Great White get award (for stupidity)

Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred
The Band Great White gets the jackass of the year award! 96 people were killed.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/875480.asp?0dm=N11PN
Yeah, and probably an big fat record contract to boot! Just hope that some of the victims families will sue them and take the ill gotton gains off them if any.

Regards

Roland
Old 22nd February 2003
  #3
Jax
Lives for gear
 

If the band has an inkling of sense, they'll quit their hopes of cashing in on being yet another dinosaur of rock groups now. The band isn't the only one to blame, but pyrotechnics in a low-ceiling, one story, all wood club was an astoundingly stupid idea. Rock reaches a tragic new low. Live by the cliche, die by the cliche.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #4
Gear Guru
 

Yes the band is stupid, but this fire is not an isolated incident. It is these club owners and managers that should be held criminally liable for the deaths.

Number one, they should be on top of EVERYTHING that is happening on their stage-

Number two- how many of these club fires and stampedes are worsened or even caused by overselling and overcrowding the club.

Number three- how many times do we have to read that there weren't enough exits or worse that the exit doors were blocked/locked/chained - usually in a lame attempt to kept people from sneaking in without paying

I say send them all to jail. Make an example of them and maybe all the other sleazebag club owners and idiot has been rock bands will straighten up and fly right
Old 23rd February 2003
  #5
Gear Nut
 
heartsoffire's Avatar
 

Not to be contradictory, but from what I understand, the club was not at capacity. Also, the exits weren't blocked but people did the natural thing - tried to go out the same way they came in. Those that found a window or a side door got out.

I agree the club owners should have known what was happening. As a former promoter, I always knew when pyrotechnics was involved because I could, at the least, SEE THE CANISTERS!

The floor/stage manager should have seen this and shut it down -- knowing the structure of the building.

Saddest of all, people died unnecessarily. If a few people (i.e. the band, band management, & club management) would have thought about what they were doing, this would have been just another concert.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #6
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

So sad. Pyro has NO PLACE in any venue that size. I have a gut feeling the idiot that was "the pyro guy" had a "we'll just do it anyway" attitude.
Had they cleared their pyro,I'm resonably sure the local fire marshall would have a record of it. I'll be curious to know as the facts come out>

On shows that have included pyro in big venues, I've seen such a to do about safety....the pyro guys were sticklers and SO pro. Who the hell was the pyro guy?monitor mixer? bus driver?
sheesh. ****ing shame.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #7
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Well, for starters you need permits for ANY pyro in ANY venue. It takes about 4 or 5 weeks to get clearance from the town and the result is someone from the fire department onstage during the show and more fire extinguishers on hand throughout the entire building. It sounds like there were no permits in place because if there were someone from the club and town would've known about it. Plus, there wouldn't have been two other club owners coming out and saying "the band used pyro at my place without permission." On top of all that, if you do get the permit you need to do a demo before the show. It ain't like buying a fog machine or a couple of PAR cans.

How could that stuff make it onto the stage? Really ****in easily. Some of that stuff is really tiny, like the size of a tissue box so it's really easy to hind behind a guitar amp or next to a drum riser where nobody could see or notice it. The only thing that might save the band is if they had a licensed pyro tech, but I'd guess that it was probably the bus driver or guitar tech. Ask them any technical question (how far it shoots, what the required safety zone is etc.) about what they're using and they'd probably ask where the nearest Pizza Hut is.

Besides the band I'd guess that the promoter is going to take some blame. I've heard that the club's legal capacity was 300. Now, with 96 dead, 180+ in the hospital and another 80-100 people making it home safe we have an overstuffed club. So who oversold the venue? The promoter? The club? Both? If it hadn't been at capacity or greater chances are great that more people would've made it out alive and without injury. Not to mention that the death and injury counts would've been lower.

Sorry man, I've spent many nights doing working or pressing the flesh in places exactly like that so it hits pretty close to home. There's no reason that a club should have the ability to become a toxic inferno in five minutes or less. The one saving grace for the club owners is that they passed a fire inspection last month and haven't had any previous violations.

Overall a little common sense would've gone a long way. You'd think that someone would've looked around and said, "Ya know, this just seems like a bad idea..."
Old 23rd February 2003
  #8
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Tim L's Avatar
 

Everybody's dirty in this thing... the club owners, the band, the crew, and I'd sure as **** want to talk to whoever the **** passed that place on its last fire inspection! Even with the obviously inadequate fire codes (can you say 'grandfathered') I have a seriously hard time believing this place could legitimately "pass" and still be able to burn to the ground in, what was it, 5 minutes?!!!

I don't believe for 1ms the club wasn't aware of the pyro's. I also don't believe the other club owners who've stated they weren't aware either. Even the mere suggestion they didn't know is complete nonsense.

I've been going to "club shows" for 20 some odd years and seen some pretty careless use of pyro's. I was at one show where an 'overly hot' flashpot blew a 3' hole in the stage. A few people up front suffered some minor cuts and burns. Luckily, it wasn't worse. Nobody had a permit, the club said they didn't know, the band said they did... sound familiar? Only, these guy's had played there 3 or 4 times before using the exact same stuff without incident... club didn't know(?)... uh huh. How many club shows have you been to where pyro's were used and a representative from the local FD was there... me neither... at least not that I could see. I've also been in lotsa' clubs that were so obviously past capacity it was ridiculous!

Sadly, pushing the limits of (and or ignoring) fire codes is standard procedure for a lot of clubs out there. The fact that they get away with it says something about the system that's supposed to be watching them.

Like I said, no one's clean in this one and they all share equaly in the utter stupidity and negligence for this tragedy. I just hope that they are all made to shoulder their part of the responsibility for it.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #9
All shoes I wouldn't like to be in right now for all the tea in China.

Old 23rd February 2003
  #10
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This link would seem to put the onus of responsibility on the band. Zero mention of pyros in their tech rider.

I would not be surprised if criminal charges will be forthcoming against the band.

In any event, what an utterly sad tragedy.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 23rd February 2003
  #11
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
I just read the rider from TSG link Brian left for us. I cannot believe that the club's people allowed this to go down, since it wasn't included in the bands tech rider.

Even though there was no mention of pyros in the bands tech rider, the club should still get what's coming to them for allowing the pyro portion of the show to proceed! Maybe even the band and Jack Russell's management company, Manic Music management should get the book thrown at them for supplying an incomplete (or false) rider in the first place.

No common sense found here! This was totally inexecutable on many fronts. Many of which have been mentioned in this thread.

This is truly a sad and tragic event that could have been addressed properly, but was not. "The show must go on" attitude killed 96 people. The people that allowed this to happen should get the death penalty!!!
Old 24th February 2003
  #12
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Roland's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Remoteness
The people that allowed this to happen should get the death penalty!!!
Now Steve, pull no punches tell us what you really think!

Roland
Old 24th February 2003
  #13
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Yeah, I hear you...

Nobody wanted this to happen. The death penalty idea is a bit severe and it would not have helped the situation...

Enforcing the laws we already have on the books would have helped the situation 100%.
Old 24th February 2003
  #14
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Tim L's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Remoteness
... Enforcing the laws we already have on the books would have helped the situation 100%.
Well, there's certainly no controling stupidity but I think it's damn likely alot more people would still be enjoying the company of their families in RI if that were the case...
Old 24th February 2003
  #15
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Roland's Avatar
I think its a terrible tragedy. A bit of thoughtlessness, and a bit of ego has ended in terrible consequences for a lot of families.

I'm sure that whoever is to blame, and even those on the peripherals will have to live with this for the rest of their lives too. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I think it is safe to say that had they even thought this could possibly happen they would never have used them.

I only sincerely hope that the amount of coverage this has got it will make anyone thinking of using pyro's on a small time show to think so that hopefully this never happens again. Putting people in jail will not change the facts or bring any of the victims back. Retribution isn't always the best answer.


Regards


Roland
Old 25th February 2003
  #16
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bjornson's Avatar
 

As a former road manager and venue stage manager, I relied on two simple rules to help me avoid these types of "Suprises".
1) As a venue manager, form a network with others and inquire about any problems with that acts' show at venues immediately preceding mine.
2) As a road manager, call other acts that have recently played that venue and do ask the same thing.
All in all a horrifying example of shared responsibility.
Old 21st March 2003
  #17
Here for the gear
 
pashop's Avatar
 

Its the foam ....highly flamable highly toxic and could have been set off by a cigarette. I have used Gerbs tons of times as has the band Great White and as you can tell from the video they are almost standing on them. The wrestler Goldberg used Gerbs in his entrance to the ring. He would stand on top of two and they would blast through him as he stood there. In the pyro world its in the same family as the kids sparklers.
The 12 ft gerbs on an 8' ceiling was a bad move but under normal conditions this would not have done a thing.
Very Sad
Ron S
Licenced Pyro Tech
Energy Mines and Resorces Canada
Old 7th January 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 

When this happened my friend said to me. Great White has 96 fans?
Old 7th January 2008
  #19
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleestack View Post
When this happened my friend said to me. Great White has 96 fans?
I cannot believe you can joke about a thing like this.

This dreadful situation destroyed the lives of many loved ones and their families.

IMHO, bringing back an old thread like this to make a stupid little joke is unacceptable.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
YMMV, but at the price of fuel it’s an awful attempt at comedy.
Old 7th January 2008
  #20
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Denny McNerney's Avatar
 

a young friend of mine was playing in a kiss tribute band years ago, and he was booked at that club.

according to what he told me...when he advanced the gig, the club owner insisted that the band use their pyro show in his club.
Old 7th January 2008
  #21
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heyman's Avatar
I remember that day. I live only a few miles from where it happened. I heard the fire trucks that night, they woke me from my sleep.


The one guy that came forward and admitted to what he did was the only one to serve jail time. If I could meet that guy, I would shake his hand.. Tell him that what he did will help start the healing process..

The 2 brothers that own the club and the Fire inspector should be hung by their ballsaks.

The "perfect storm" would not have happened if even just one of the following below had been fixed..

1) Fire doors that opened into the club, rather than out...
2) Highly flamable Foam on walls.
3) Club over capacity
4)Fire Marshall knew about the code problems- but did nothing!

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that if hundreds of people are rushing a door and the door has to be opened inward, there is going to be a pile up.

Why isnt the Fire Marshall in Jail??
Old 8th January 2008
  #22
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

I had a long time friend who was killed in the fire... His name was Dale Latulippe.

He was a great guy and an incredible drummer.

You can read about him here: MySpace.com - Angels Of Rhode Island ( 2-20-2003) R.I.P Dale

I don't find joking comments in this thread appropriate.

Maybe we can take a second, now 5 years later, and reflect on the tragedy and the victims..

These are the people who lost their lives that night:

Old 9th January 2008
  #23
Gear Addict
 
BeerHunter's Avatar
Wow, seeing them all in a photo like that really shows the size of the tragedy. Such a terrible, avoidable disaster.
Old 9th January 2008
  #24
I think the ultimate guilty is the the Owners and Club manager..he had the last word and also regardless the Club was not in code!

Also if I am not wrong one of the band members died , right? don't you think they had enough?

I think nobody would like to be on the band's shoes.


Also to laugh about an incident were many people die is pathetic.
Old 10th January 2008
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Also a similar fire started by pyrotechnics had occurred at the Fine Line club in Minneapolis just days before. Apparently nobody learned anything from that mistake because nobody died. Sadly it sometimes takes tragedy before people learn a little common sense.

National Fire Sprinkler Association - Illinois Chapter - Assembly Occupancies

Quote:
The Need for Fire Sprinklers in Nightclubs

On February 17, 2003, the combustible ceiling of the Fine Line Music Cafe in Minneapolis, Minnesota, was ignited by a rock band's pyrotechnic display. The club's automatic sprinkler system activated to control the fire. There were no lives lost, no injuries. Most of us would have never even heard about that fire if it weren't for the comparisons that have been made between it and a fire that took place later the same week in a nightclub without sprinklers. On the night of February 20, 2003, a fire was ignited by a rock band's pyrotechnics at the Station in West Warwick, Rhode Island. The fire was fueled by exposed combustible foam that had been applied to the stage for soundproofing, and led to 100 deaths.

The morning after the Station fire, a member company of the National Fire Sprinkler Association conducted a test, igniting similar exposed combustible foam applied to the back and ceiling of a small stage. With no sprinkler present, the fire quickly grew to fully involve the foam. With a single sprinkler present, the fire was stopped in its tracks. It was not an attempt to duplicate the conditions at the Rhode Island fire, but a demonstration of the difference sprinkler protection can make in an otherwise overwhelming fire involving exposed combustible foam. Temperature comparisons with and without sprinklers showed the tremendous cooling ability of a properly functioning sprinkler system, stopping the fast-developing fire, and preventing room flashover.
Old 10th January 2008
  #26
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heyman's Avatar
"Also if I am not wrong one of the band members died , right?"

Yes, Ty Longley.

He is Seven rows down .. 4th from the left in the pic.


..
Old 10th January 2008
  #27
Gear Addict
 
Tantrum The Cat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
Wow, seeing them all in a photo like that really shows the size of the tragedy. Such a terrible, avoidable disaster.
I had the same thought.

Just some regular folks who wanted nothing more than to have a drink with their friends and hear some rock & roll.

And yeah, cracking jokes about a tragedy like this is just plain weak. Anyone who's lost a loved one will tell you that this is no laughing matter.
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