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It had to be said... re: the state of hip hop Audio Interfaces
Old 11th August 2008
  #61

Hip hop requires little investment in the sense that you dont need to have any musical training whatsoever, you dont need to learn an instrument, you dont have to buy an instrument etc. All you have to do is "spit" and you can call yourself a "rapper". Now talented rappers are amazing. It is an art and it takes an incredible about of skill but even if you are terrible you can still call yourself a rapper. To even be terrible at an instrument takes a great deal more investment."


[/QUOTE]

Please explain exactly what about that you disagree with. You can say I dont "respect the game" but I'm just stating the obvious. I dont think that is taking a shot at the "Game" in any way.

BTW I did not get upset because you disagreed with me. It was the condescending, pompous way in which you did it. You may not have cursed but you were plenty insulting for no reason that I can see. I do not retract a thing I said regarding the main point and believe it to be quite accurate. You however have every right to disagree with me. In fact I welcome and enjoy those sorts of discussions but I wish you had not attacked me off the bat.

Although I see where argument is coming from, I have a different perspective and would have liked to discuss it point for point in more depth. Unfortunately things have gotten into unfriendly territory. For my part in that I apologize.
Old 11th August 2008
  #62
Gear Addict
 
Electronique's Avatar
 

The sad state of Hip Hop can be said in just one word.. or a string of words.. or no wait, a web address!!!

www.futureproducers.com

That place is full of them!!
Old 11th August 2008
  #63
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paultools's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio View Post

Hip hop requires little investment in the sense that you dont need to have any musical training whatsoever, you dont need to learn an instrument, you dont have to buy an instrument etc. All you have to do is "spit" and you can call yourself a "rapper". Now talented rappers are amazing. It is an art and it takes an incredible about of skill but even if you are terrible you can still call yourself a rapper. To even be terrible at an instrument takes a great deal more investment."

Please explain exactly what about that you disagree with. You can say I dont "respect the game" but I'm just stating the obvious. I dont think that is taking a shot at the "Game" in any way.

BTW I did not get upset because you disagreed with me. It was the condescending, pompous way in which you did it. You may not have cursed but you were plenty insulting for no reason that I can see. I do not retract a thing I said regarding the main point and believe it to be quite accurate. You however have every right to disagree with me. In fact I welcome and enjoy those sorts of discussions but I wish you had not attacked me off the bat.

Although I see where argument is coming from, I have a different perspective and would have liked to discuss it point for point in more depth. Unfortunately things have gotten into unfriendly territory. For my part in that I apologize.[/QUOTE]

I didn't attack you right off the bat. I simply asked you to show me your stack.
"what have you worked on?" is not an attack.


Your whole OP was written in a condescending, pompous manner from my interpretation. If I was one of those wannabes, I would have dismissed your post immediately based upon the way that you were talking down to people about their language, etc. That is just ONE MAN'S interpretation of what you wrote. Others didn't see it that way. To each his own.

If one of your disciples picks up Passman's book, the first thing he will see listed is Passman's credits. Credits prove credibility... in other words, why should I follow this person's advice?

Have a look at this:

I'm sure you've heard the expression, "He wrote the book." Well, this month's interviewee did write the book. Don Passman has penned what most people in the music business consider to be the best practical guide to the music industry ever written.

It's not uncommon for industry insiders to refer to All You Need To Know About The Music Business (Simon & Schuster--16th printing) as the "bible." I believe them because I've seen it on more music industry executives' bookshelves than Gideon's Bible in a chain of Motel 6's, and for good reason--it covers every conceivable question one might have about the music business in Passman's straight-forward, easy to understand, and affable style.

You might expect a man who is a Cum Laude graduate of Harvard Law School, and a partner in a powerful, Beverly Hills law firm (Gang, Tyre, Ramer & Brown) to be a ruthless shark. Wrong! You've been watching too much T.V. You might expect a man who has done the two largest artist deals in the history of the music business to be a boorish egomaniac. Wrong again!

While it's true that Passman did negotiate the reported $70,000,000 deal for Janet Jackson, and recently topped that by nabbing a reported $80,000,000 for R.E.M. in their deal with Warner Brothers, I found him to be much more humble and gracious than people with far less to brag about.

In between writing books and doing mega dollar deals, Don also finds the time to teach a course at University of Southern California's Law School's advanced Professional Program and give frequent lectures.



****! This guy knows his stuff! Maybe I'd better listen! He is experienced AND humble and gracious!

Just having a studio doesn't give you any more credibility than a newbie who is a self-proclaimed C.E.O. Preamps are not groceries. I know lots of broke people who wanna show me how to make money. Having a studio certainly does not qualify you to rescue Hip Hop from itself, Ebonics and all. Point me in the direction of the man who says "I is a millionaire" and I'll listen if a million dollars is what I desire.

Furthermore, it takes no less of an "investment" to be a bad rapper than a bad singer in a rock band. You wanna make beats? You need a computer, MPC, software, whatever... just like you need a pawn shop guitar and amp to play rock. The Rolling Stones play triads. You don't have to be Al DiMeola to succeed in a rock band. You don't have to be J. Dilla to make a hot beat. The investment is individual. A milly a milly a milli a milly... i wish I had a piece of that one AND "I'm too sexy for my hair..."

I agree that artists, producers, etc all have a lot to learn, including me.
It's admirable that you want to teach in an effort to fix the "pathetic state of hip hop".
Your OP unfortunately reads more like a frustrated and cynical engineer than concerned player in the game. Don't knock tha hustle.

I'll let you have the last word.










for now LOL
Old 11th August 2008
  #64
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viewing's Avatar
The fountain of youth myth applies to all things, even Hip-Hop. What you thought it would last forever? Ahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The jokes on you jack!


PS - Hip-Hop is not on the radio
Old 19th August 2008
  #65
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streetbeats's Avatar
 

Completely agree...too much talking not enough walking...

Old 23rd September 2008
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvwainscott View Post

Reading off of a sheet of paper doesn't work - it sounds like someone reading.
This can work...and does work...big name people do it all the time. However, it is better to just know your lyrics.
Old 26th September 2008
  #67
OK, you're both out of line here,

I just sat here and read this whole stupid thread.

Full Clip makes valid points with varying degrees of flaws in his logic.

PaulTools WAS being kind of a prick right from the start.

Then Full Clip comes back with equally prickish responces.

This has turned into a flame war long before anyone mentioned it.

Someone just call the other **** so we can be done. Godwin's law MUST be observed.

But seriously, PaulTools, you're a dick for not actually posting your name, mine is Donald W. Mohr. I've done some indie stuff, nothing major label and you won't find me on allmusic. But my clients are happy and that's what counts. At least Full Clip has links to his website etc. When someone asks you for your name so we can check your credits, it's not an unreasonable request.

Instead you respond with "I don't have time for this, I have a metal band to mix" yet you continue to carry on these pointless tirades.

You're both doing a lot of hard talk without any followthrough. So quit whining, post some clips and let's assess you based on your work. Credit listings are fine too.

And the whole point on so and so is blinged out now doesn't mean that their music will last past the 6 months of a fad that it is. The reason we still care about Pac is because he was truly a cut above. There are hundreds of now obscure rappers that blew up in the late 80s through mid 90s. They all made fat cash, it doesn't actually mean it's worth giving a damn about.

I think that's the fundamental difference in the argument. FullClip cares about outputing some truly great work and PaulTools comes in and says "oh you are full of it, you don't need any of that to make money."

It's like screaming at each other in two separate languages.

Now, I have telemarketing to do.
Old 26th September 2008
  #68
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I can understand how in reading such a lengthy thread, you missed a lot of the subtleties of the discussion. You also read something unintended into my Metal band statement... it was a joke... you might get it with a few more years experience.

First, I never called anyone a prick, dick or anything of the sort. Takes one to know one.
I found out how childish that was at about age 12.

Second, my name and credits were irrelevant to the discussion, since I was not the one proclaiming to be the expert on the sad state of hip hop or the one offering the suggestions of how to make things "right".
If you like the results someone else is getting, then that person's advice might be worth listening to. As for me, I'm satisfied with happy clients that are major labels.
To each his own.

You probably also missed this in your thorough read of this thread, but you can "assess" my work by picking up a copy of "Me Against the World". However, I don't understand how that is going to help rescue Hip Hop from itself.

Old 27th September 2008
  #69
Gear Addict
 

Well, at least we know what "keepin it real, yo" really means: If he's got the money, and the lumber, then you ride the lumber to get the money..."I'll be all up all on that jock, yo." Keepin' it REEEEAAAL............

But to the OP, I know where you're coming from. I used to tech at Paramount, and that place was rap central. You couldn't enter a control room without walking through a cloud of ganja (not a bad thing), and making sure not to knock over a 40. The living room was always filled with kids who should have been in school, bouncing off the walls in boredom while daddy was cutting tracks about how he wanted to put a bullet in a dumbass from the OTHER gang (whose members were probably in another control room singing the same **** about HIS gang).

Any time a non-rap session came through, the engineer said, "yeah, baby!!!", like he had just pulled a winning ticket from the crotch of Las Vegas. So much enthusiasm, to not have to deal with "keepin' it real, yo..." which means about 2 women, 5 kids, 10 unnecessary friends, and making sure you can lock **** up when you know that other people know you're still there.
Old 27th September 2008
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio View Post
.. being a complete prick without being willing to expose yourself.
Am I the only one finding this absolutely (but unintentionally?) bloody hilarious? heh

r,
j,
Old 29th September 2008
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
sluttygearhere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultools View Post
I can understand how in reading such a lengthy thread, you missed a lot of the subtleties of the discussion. You also read something unintended into my Metal band statement... it was a joke... you might get it with a few more years experience.

First, I never called anyone a prick, dick or anything of the sort. Takes one to know one.
I found out how childish that was at about age 12.

Second, my name and credits were irrelevant to the discussion, since I was not the one proclaiming to be the expert on the sad state of hip hop or the one offering the suggestions of how to make things "right".
If you like the results someone else is getting, then that person's advice might be worth listening to. As for me, I'm satisfied with happy clients that are major labels.
To each his own.

You probably also missed this in your thorough read of this thread, but you can "assess" my work by picking up a copy of "Me Against the World". However, I don't understand how that is going to help rescue Hip Hop from itself.

wow, you really are just a jerk.

-- Ben
Old 23rd December 2012
  #72
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chicitybeats's Avatar
 

i have a penny to throw in as well alot of the problem is the lust of money, people chase the dollar, "major" artist and producers cut corners because the budget aint there and all of the smaller people see that and think thats the way to do things. We live in that type of world where people make radio hits on laptops with keystations and people record their records in their basement and take them straight to the club and get PLAY!!! its not right but until the people demand different you trying to swim with your arms tied. my $0.01
Old 23rd December 2012
  #73
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Don't feed trolls like paultools people.

Half the threads (it seems) spiral into the abyss lead by some moron like paultools.

Smarten up people. This is the internets. Learn it.
Old 25th December 2012
  #74
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Hiphop was officially born when they removed resources such as music programs from the " ghetto". We took what we had an created a legacy.

Anyone can do it but being"real" Aka authentic is what is all about.

I knew there was trouble when a white rapper said people that have a college education aren't real and shouldn't rap.
Old 26th December 2012
  #75
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brockorama's Avatar
 

LOL this thread is 4 years old.

Is paultools still alive I wonder? Ha ha ----cheers all!!
Old 26th December 2012
  #76
Gear Addict
 

Well it was always kind of a joke anyway. I'd move on. You might have to learn an instrument.

-Kirk
Old 27th December 2012
  #77
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Nahuel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
Don't feed trolls like paultools people.

Half the threads (it seems) spiral into the abyss lead by some moron like paultools.

Smarten up people. This is the internets. Learn it.
shut up dude, you're the moron for typing that crap, ppl like paultools are the reason why this board is what it is.
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